Had a nightmare last night

[Mehd School]

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I was starting my first day of MS1, walked into my first lecture and sat down. The lecturer began and it was homeopathic medicine.

I was at an ND school.

Freaky stuff.

 

[Mbeas]

I was starting my first day of MS1, walked into my first lecture and sat down. The lecturer began and it was homeopathic medicine.

I was at an ND school.

Freaky stuff.

A friend of mine in college was set on DO/MD all four years in college. I haven't talked to her in two years, but I just saw on facebook that she is at a ND school.

I don't know much about ND, but I'm pretty sure you are considered a physician in some states and you can only practice in primary care.

 

[BabyDoc86]

I'm already having nightmares about Gross Anatomy... that my cadaver woke up mid-dissection. Gnarly. 🙁

 

[Mehd School]

A friend of mine in college was set on DO/MD all four years in college. I haven't talked to her in two years, but I just saw on facebook that she is at a ND school.

I don't know much about ND, but I'm pretty sure you are considered a physician in some states and you can only practice in primary care.

I personally know an ND and she owns a discount nutrition store that apparently specializes in various snake oils. Lady is crazy and n=1 but I'm comfortable with that generalization.

YouTube their warm towel therapy. If you thought OMM was voodoo...

 

[Goro]

One of my common bad dreams is showing up to give an exam to my students and I haven't prepared anything!

I was starting my first day of MS1, walked into my first lecture and sat down. The lecturer began and it was homeopathic medicine.

I was at an ND school.

Freaky stuff.

 

[MedPR]

I had a dream that I walked into Prometric to take Step 1 and then realized I hadn't even studied yet.

 

[Dr.TurkandJD]

I was starting my first day of MS1, walked into my first lecture and sat down. The lecturer began and it was homeopathic medicine.

I was at an ND school.

Freaky stuff.

Atleast no one tea-bagged your drum set

 

[BabyDoc86]

Atleast no one tea-bagged your drum set

👍 Nice reference!

 

[lobo.solo]

One of my common bad dreams is showing up to give an exam to my students and I haven't prepared anything!

Same here, but I was the student

 

[abolt18]

A couple days before my NSU interview I had a dream I got to the interview and forgot my suit. I showed up wearing shorts, flip-flops, and a t-shirt. I was STRESSED when I woke up!

 

[dntke1518]

I'm already having nightmares about Gross Anatomy... that my cadaver woke up mid-dissection. Gnarly. 🙁

No joke I've had dreams (usually when I was sleeping under the influence) about different MS1 classes. No fun.

 

[breeniee]

These medical school related nightmares are the worst. First it was nightmares studying for the MCAT, then waiting for scores, then waiting for interview invites, interviews, and acceptances. I'm pretty sure these nightmares will continue until we're old and wrinkly.

Last night, I was so anxious I couldn't sleep. I kept thinking that I was never going to get any interview invites because my professors are taking forever to send LORs. I dreamt that I was a grocery store cashier. It was a horrible night and I woke up drenched in sweat. GROSS

 

[SpecterGT260]

A friend of mine in college was set on DO/MD all four years in college. I haven't talked to her in two years, but I just saw on facebook that she is at a ND school.

I don't know much about ND, but I'm pretty sure you are considered a physician in some states and you can only practice in primary care.

Even then I don't think they can bill Medicaid, prescribe meds, and I don't think any hospitals will take them in clinical roles. They are glorified nutritionists who think they have a doctorate because someone scribbled it down on their diploma in all natural bees wax crayon.

 

[coolingglasses]

I had a dream last night that KCOM rejected me. I'm pretty sure this was preceded by dreaming of an acceptance...

 

[Mehd School]

Even then I don't think they can bill Medicaid, prescribe meds, and I don't think any hospitals will take them in clinical roles. They are glorified nutritionists who think they have a doctorate because someone scribbled it down on their diploma in all natural bees wax crayon.

While I agree with your stance 100%, scarily enough they're gaining ground. They can prescribe some meds, and last I read they can do some minor procedures such as injections, skin biopsies, etc. Still quite benign at this point, the the matter that they're gaining more responsibilities is enough to give me another nightmare.

 

[Dr.TurkandJD]

I had a nightmare last night that I was going into my first choice to talk to the Dean of Admissions and beg him for an acceptance. But every door was locked or the hallways were infinitely long or there were monsters lol. Then the security guard tried to hit on me... weird!

 

[zoner]

A friend of mine in college was set on DO/MD all four years in college. I haven't talked to her in two years, but I just saw on facebook that she is at a ND school.

I don't know much about ND, but I'm pretty sure you are considered a physician in some states and you can only practice in primary care.

Indeed. But in arizona they can do some precedures as well. They are considered as doc

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[zoner]

Even then I don't think they can bill Medicaid, prescribe meds, and I don't think any hospitals will take them in clinical roles. They are glorified nutritionists who think they have a doctorate because someone scribbled it down on their diploma in all natural bees wax crayon.

Wrong!

Their argument is that they are trained exactly the same as other med students but more.. Sound familiar?
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[SpecterGT260]

Wrong!

Their argument is that they are trained exactly the same as other med students but more.. Sound familiar?
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I am aware. How does that make my statement wrong? Are you saying that they can do these things? Because no they cannot in 40 of the 50 states and even the ones who allow them to practice I am not sure if they get hospital privileges or if they can bill Medicaid. Major part to being a real doctor there

I seriously wonder if you pay attention to your own posts some times....

 

[zoner]

I am aware. How does that make my statement wrong? Are you saying that they can do these things? Because no they cannot in 40 of the 50 states and even the ones who allow them to practice I am not sure if they get hospital privileges or if they can bill Medicaid. Major part to being a real doctor there

I seriously wonder if you pay attention to your own posts some times....

You are certainly wrong In that they are not just "glorified nutritionist." I know of two in arizona who are making a bank running their own"medical" clinic. They compete head to head with mds. It is again snotty attitude like yours that make this profession sometime seem very stale. as I said their argument for wanting more rights isn't all that different than do

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[SpecterGT260]

You are certainly wrong In that they are not just "glorified nutritionist." I know of two in arizona who are making a bank running their own"medical" clinic. They compete head to head with mds. It is again snotty attitude like yours that make this profession sometime seem very stale. as I said their argument for wanting more rights isn't all that different than do

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Oh I see. You put quotes around "medical" when describing them and and I'm the snot. Then bring up two things that have absolutely nothing to do with current practice rights (making "bank" and argument for practice rights)

Holy crap.... I mean.... really 😕🙄

Here is what I have been saying. I will type slowly so you can be sure to catch it 😉

I cannot find anything that says they can bill medicaid for practices. They are NATUROPATHS, and as such are not very likely to employ pharmaceuticals in any real capacity. Their treatment moralities are natural, herbal, alternative, and nutritionally based. Ergo "glorified nutritionist". It doesn't matter what they say or how much money they make, in that regard. So unless you have some information I do not concerning their actual scope of practice in terms of prescriptions and the ability to bill insurance for their practices (specifically medicaid), then your response is just so ill conceived that you really should be embarrassed for making it.

In a nutshell, what you did was perceive something as derogatory and just react to that rather then to respond to ANYTHING that was actually said...... So I will ask again.... in what capacity was I wrong? and this time please actually provide evidences which contradict anything I actually said, ok chieftain? ok 🙂


Here is one stating that NDs are just getting the ability to prescribe antibiotics in canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/10/22/f-naturopaths-get-prescribing-rights.html

so basically, yes they have licenses to practice in a few states. That says absolutely nothing about their scope of practice. DCs also need a license. They also cannot prescribe meds. "Scope of practice" is a term applied to what areas of healthcare are open to a particular group. As it stands right now, you have described two people who are NOT working in hospitals (which is what I said about them.....) and who you describe as "medical" indicating they are not using any modern medical techniques..... since we are on the subject of "being snotty"..... care to revise a little in your response there sweetness? It would be a good idea....

 

[zoner]

Oh I see. You put quotes around "medical" when describing them and and I'm the snot. Then bring up two things that have absolutely nothing to do with current practice rights (making "bank" and argument for practice rights)

Holy crap.... I mean.... really 😕🙄

You are so flawed in your simplistic thinking. "medical" as in whatever the medical practice they are running and I brouggt up banking to show how they arecompeteing with md who specialized in surgery. You also have a something for not arguing about the content of whatever thediscussion people are having but you tend to focus more on how they are constructing their argument. This ain't a debate class bro.

I seriously think you would make a really good politician. you are in a wrong field man

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[SpecterGT260]

You are so flawed in your simplistic thinking. "medical" as in whatever the medical practice they are running and I brouggt up banking to show how they arecompeteing with md who specialized in surgery. You also have a something for not arguing about the content of whatever thediscussion people are having but you tend to focus more on how they are constructing their argument. This ain't a debate class bro.

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this.... this is just..... I am... 🙁 oh god you give my brain a sad

So "making bank" is the standard unit of measure describing one's ability to "go head to head with a surgeon"... and "head to head" meaning.....


I am asking you ONLY to provide information on their scope of practice. But you use these false equivalencies like "making bank" and "running their own clinic" (which was really odd to use as a counterpoint to me saying I dont think they get hospital privileges.... think about it... seriously). I suspect you do not have such information. Shame, guess my "simplistic" thought processes are just not advanced enough to see how your completely irrelevant anecdotes support the claims you are or are not making..... 😕

Seriously, all you have said is that I am wrong and then wholly demonstrated you have absolutely no idea what I am talking about in your attempt to support your claim. Bravo kiddo. That takes someone truly unique 👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

http://www.naturopathicfamilymedicine.com/faq.htm

Can an ND prescribe medication?

Yes, ND's in Washington state have full prescriptive rights, with the exception of Class I, II, and III Narcotics.

This is a severely limited statement on their prescription rights. Again... glorified nutritionists. I don't believe I need a license to administer homeopathic remedies....... The bulk of their modalities are completely unregulated. So again, and this is not some play at debate or politics or whatever other half-baked joke you wish to make.... I am only trying to get you to actually understand the discussion here for once rather than allowing you to spin smug little circles up inside your head while not making any sense..... In terms of scope of practice: in what way did I err in my previous statement? I am all for learning something about this but I don't see anywhere that they can practice in the full capacity of a physician, and as such I cant think of any hospital which will actually hire them (at least as physicians). So they run their natural health clinics while not prescribing anything of interest. i.e. "glorified nutritionists"

 

[zoner]

this.... this is just..... I am... 🙁 oh god you give my brain a sad

So "making bank" is the standard unit of measure describing one's ability to "go head to head with a surgeon"... and "head to head" meaning.....

no, not standard, but something I came up with to easily point out that they are established and are competing with MDs. Get over it. I noticed that you are extremely critical of how people are putting up arguments on this sdn. Sorry man, people are obsessing about each word they put onto each of these post. get over yourself.

I am asking you ONLY to provide information on their scope of practice. But you use these false equivalencies like "making bank" and "running their own clinic" (which was really odd to use as a counterpoint to me saying I dont think they get hospital privileges.... think about it... seriously). I suspect you do not have such information. Shame, guess my "simplistic" thought processes are just not advanced enough to see how your completely irrelevant anecdotes support the claims you are or are not making..... 😕

Seriously, all you have said is that I am wrong and then wholly demonstrated you have absolutely no idea what I am talking about in your attempt to support your claim. Bravo kiddo. That takes someone truly unique 👍

to my knowledge you did not ask me to tell you what they did. you just made a blanket statement about how idiotic their field is. so in that sense you were wrong. You also have a real talent for misquoting what others say. I didn't just say you were wrong. I had said that you were wrong to think that way about ND. You are really stuck u pin that you can't even admit that you were wrong. So what if they don't have hospital privilege. They are practicing medicine and helping people. i am not sure but i am sure not all mds or dos have hospital privileges neither. I actually do have exactly those information. One is primary care/family doc part of a large primary care clinic. The other runs med spa. btw not everyone is sitting in front of their computer keyboard crafting debate quality responses to each of these post so stop criticizing how everyone is arguing wrong just to prove how smart you are

 

[SpecterGT260]

no, not standard, but something I came up with to easily point out that they are established and are competing with MDs. Get over it. I noticed that you are extremely critical of how people are putting up arguments on this sdn. Sorry man, people are obsessing about each word they put onto each of these post. get over yourself.



to my knowledge you did not ask me to tell you what they did. you just made a blanket statement about how idiotic their field is. so in that sense you were wrong. You also have a real talent for misquoting what others say. I didn't just say you were wrong. I had said that you were wrong to think that way about ND. You are really stuck u pin that you can't even admit that you were wrong. So what if they don't have hospital privilege. They are practicing medicine and helping people. i am not sure but i am sure not all mds or dos have hospital privileges neither. I actually do have exactly those information. One is primary care/family doc part of a large primary care clinic. The other runs med spa. btw not everyone is sitting in front of their computer keyboard crafting debate quality responses to each of these post so stop criticizing how everyone is arguing wrong just to prove how smart you are

see..... no.. Apparently you have been wrong about this. I made specific statements regarding their practice and then made a blanket statement to describe those specifics. You just didnt like it, and in true noob butthurt fashion, said nothing of any true value while attempting to refute the claim. My statements had nothing to do with their ability to support a practice. Are you aware of what a "straw man" is? I would gladly admit that I was wrong.... if that were actually the case here. See.... people of your.... lets call it "intellect". I have noticed that people of your intellect have a habit of jumping to this "cant you admit you were wrong" argument as if there is some sort of larger moral obligation to respond. This has nothing to do with my pride and everything to do with your inability to follow a conversation. 👍 I'd suggest you get over that while I contemplate how to get over the things in your post that never bothered me in the first place


p.s. Zoner, nothing about my responses has anything to do with "crafting a response", so I will take your interpretation of such as a compliment. It also shows me that if a few hastily typed responses are causing you to get a little dizzy that there may not be a lot of benefit to continuing the discussion any further. I'm just too "simplistic" I guess 🙄 you got me big guy. You suuuuuuuure showed me.
The moral of the story here, is if you want to call someone out 1) know what THEY are talking about before you flap your fingers all over the keyboard and 2) know what YOU are talking about. Both of these things could have helped to avoid this derailment.

 

[zoner]

see..... no.. Apparently you have been wrong about this. I made specific statements regarding their practice and then made a blanket statement to describe those specifics. You just didnt like it, and in true noob butthurt fashion, said nothing of any true value while attempting to refute the claim. My statements had nothing to do with their ability to support a practice. Are you aware of what a "straw man" is? I would gladly admit that I was wrong.... if that were actually the case here. See.... people of your.... lets call it "intellect". I have noticed that people of your intellect have a habit of jumping to this "cant you admit you were wrong" argument as if there is some sort of larger moral obligation to respond. This has nothing to do with my pride and everything to do with your inability to follow a conversation. 👍 I'd suggest you get over that while I contemplate how to get over the things in your post that never bothered me in the first place


p.s. Zoner, nothing about my responses has anything to do with "crafting a response", so I will take your interpretation of such as a compliment. It also shows me that if a few hastily typed responses are causing you to get a little dizzy that there may not be a lot of benefit to continuing the discussion any further. I'm just too "simplistic" I guess 🙄 you got me big guy. You suuuuuuuure showed me.
The moral of the story here, is if you want to call someone out 1) know what THEY are talking about before you flap your fingers all over the keyboard and 2) know what YOU are talking about. Both of these things could have helped to avoid this derailment.

wow, another masterpiece. you are always right of course, how can you ever go wrong

 

[SpecterGT260]

to my knowledge you did not ask me to tell you what they did. you just made a blanket statement about how idiotic their field is.

Ok, I agree whole heartedly with this. I mean... you are wrong. But I agree that this is true "to your knowledge". But lets see where this went, shall we?

Even then I don't think they can bill Medicaid, prescribe meds, and I don't think any hospitals will take them in clinical roles. They are glorified nutritionists who think they have a doctorate because someone scribbled it down on their diploma in all natural bees wax crayon.

Well here is what I said before callling them glorified nutritionists. BTW way to knock every nutritionist by assuming they are idiotic (your words, not mine)

Wrong!

Their argument is that they are trained exactly the same as other med students but more.. Sound familiar?
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Here I can't tell if you think their claim is valid or not... But either way I respond with:

I am aware. How does that make my statement wrong? Are you saying that they can do these things? Because no they cannot in 40 of the 50 states and even the ones who allow them to practice I am not sure if they get hospital privileges or if they can bill Medicaid. Major part to being a real doctor there
.

So, again, reiterating my initial points. No I did not actually ask you to provide this..... but it was pretty clear that I was saying these are the metrics for scope of practice I am interested in. So discussing their bank rolls and "Med Spas" really doesnt stand as a valid counterpoint..... in fact.... that is kinda more supportive of MY point.
Then I said this:

Then bring up two things that have absolutely nothing to do with current practice rights

I cannot find anything that says they can bill medicaid for practices. They are NATUROPATHS, and as such are not very likely to employ pharmaceuticals in any real capacity. Their treatment moralities are natural, herbal, alternative, and nutritionally based. Ergo "glorified nutritionist". It doesn't matter what they say or how much money they make, in that regard. So unless you have some information I do not concerning their actual scope of practice in terms of prescriptions and the ability to bill insurance for their practices (specifically medicaid), then your response is just so ill conceived that you really should be embarrassed for making it.

I.

Which explains AGAIN what "scope of practice" really entails. You seem confused by this and think "ability to work" somehow translates into complete scope of practice. Finally, I said this:

I am asking you ONLY to provide information on their scope of practice. But you use these false equivalencies like "making bank" and "running their own clinic" (which was really odd to use as a counterpoint to me saying I dont think they get hospital privileges....

and you come back with "to my knowledge you didnt ask me"....
again, I agree that this is true "to your knowledge". And again: Bravo!

 

[SpecterGT260]

wow, another masterpiece. you are always right of course, how can you ever go wrong

Am I in some alternate dimension where defending ones self after being called out by someone with literally no clue about what is going on is a bad thing?
See..... for this highschool tactic to work, I would have to give even a fraction of a crap about your opinion of me. But since you are no more than a floating head on a psychedelic background.... I am afraid the movements are minimal

 

[zoner]

look specter

you said they are glorified nutritionist. and i said wrong, their scope of practice is more than just glorified nutritionist because they can run things like med spas and work in family clinics alongside mds.

this whole thing is you see very simple.

this was the way you conducted yourself in that religion thread in md forum. instead of keeping something simple... simple, you pull out everything and turn everything around to support or give more credence to whatever the theory or ideas you have when they can easily be defeated by sound logic or simplicity.

 

[SpecterGT260]

look specter

you said they are glorified nutritionist. and i said wrong, their scope of practice is more than just glorified nutritionist because they can run things like med spas and work in family clinics alongside mds.

this whole thing is you see very simple.

this was the way you conducted yourself in that religion thread in md forum. instead of keeping something simple... simple, you pull out everything and turn everything around to support or give more credence to whatever the theory or ideas you have when they can easily be defeated by sound logic or simplicity.

The religion thread was an active discussion and you came in and acted like people were out line for discussing. You do know what a forum is used for, right? Even in there... you didnt employ ANY sound logic (although yes, you employed droves of "simplicity"). You just called me snotty a few times and then.... I dunno... ran off to play with your pigtails or whatever it is that people who use the word "snotty" do in their free time 😕

And.... the "glorified nutritionist" was an example of hyperbolic metaphor. Meant to accentuate the other two succinct points I made. You're right, that this is actually very simple. Yet still too complicated for you 🙁 like I said, you give my brain a sad

 

[zoner]

The religion thread was an active discussion and you came in and acted like people were out line for discussing. You do know what a forum is used for, right? Even in there... you didnt employ ANY sound logic (although yes, you employed droves of "simplicity"). You just called me snotty a few times and then.... I dunno... ran off to play with your pigtails or whatever it is that people who use the word "snotty" do in their free time 😕

And.... the "glorified nutritionist" was an example of hyperbolic metaphor. Meant to accentuate the other two succinct points I made. You're right, that this is actually very simple. Yet still too complicated for you 🙁 like I said, you give my brain a sad

that's funny because from what i recall you were the only one that was making that religious discussion more complicated than it really was by injecting ideas about how the ways people were arguing or discussing was all wrong and pointless. you were the one making things more complicated than it really is

 

[SpecterGT260]

from what i recall

Again, probably a true statement
So back on topic.....

 

[zoner]

Anyways nds are definitely a threat if not to the whole doc community then definitely to dos. I understand there are shortages but all school are increasing their clads sizes and more schools are popping up. If dos think people like that do are suppose to be holistic how much do you think people will gobble up the ***** ideaof naturopathic approach? Very easily. Frankly speaking whats to keep them away from practicing family medicine in sll 50 states? I say do really need to try to combine with md degree somehow

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[Nymphicus]

Most of you are unaware that Naturopathic Doctors (ND) are better than Medical Doctors (MD/DO) in almost every way. I am here to enlighten you.

Here is some information directly from their AAMC equivalent.

http://www.aanmc.org/education/comparing-nd-md-curricula.php


Some gems

But when comparing the training and philosophies of NDs and MDs, it's important to remember that there is no right or wrong


During the first two years, ND students' credit loads are almost identical to those of MD students.



all future NDs are in training to become primary care physicians. In other words, a naturopathic medicine program is by definition a specialization in primary care – a field of medicine in extreme shortage in the US today.

To see more, please visit http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12466354

 

[coolingglasses]

:ugh:

 

[Mr Kenobi]

 

[abolt18]

I vote for specter as the winner of this one.
View attachment ziinga-winner.jpg

 

[zoner]

There are nds lurking here? Fyi I almost died because of some incompetent nd. They can all go to medical hell for all I care
it was however my fault for not listening to an MD and thinking that nd or better because they were more " holistic "
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[Mehd School]

Better things to do.

You don't have them.