Handgun for a Wild Boar/Black Bear or a 350 pound Crack Addict

[BLADEMDA]

So,

I am drinking a few brewskies when the subject turns to handgun selection for wild beasts, both human and non-human.

Of Course, my Smith and Wesson 50 caliber will stop anything but the gun is a beast to shoot especially with accuracy.

A friend suggests a .357 Magnum but I don't think that has enough stopping power for a Bear but maybe enough for a boar or Crack addict. Of Course, ammo selection is key here. Let's assume all you have is ball or self-defense ammo with you.

Another dude says he is very accurate with his Glock 9 mm and would unload a full clip into the beast. I say only the crrack addict may go down although even that isn't a guarantee with ball ammo. Remember, the addict weighs 350 pounds and is 6'6" and coming at you with an Axe. The 9mm won't kill the Bear and you are just going to piss him off. But, if and I mean if, you can get 6 slugs into the head of the 400 pound wild boar you might have chance of stopping the animal with a 9mm.

What do you all think?

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[BLADEMDA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUY1ozUu9gA&feature=fvw

Any Mammal doesn't stand a chance with the 50 caliber S and W.

 

[Noyac]

I'll throw my Ithica .45 in the mix.

And I agree the 9mm won't even stop the crack addict.

 

[pgg]

What do you all think?

I think the caliber debate for self defense is mostly done; the effective difference between 9mm and .45acp in the human shooting arena is probably close to zero with modern HP ammunition.

I think .50 cal handguns are silly self defense weapons. Most people who own them have them because of the novelty or misunderstanding the tradeoffs between larger vs smaller calibers. There are big downsides to .50 ... magazine capacity, accuracy on followup shots, cost ... the painful nature of shooting them and the impact that has on how often they practice with them. Nobody I know who owns a .50 handgun pops off more than a handful of rounds at the range. Which is fine, if you own it because it's cool, but it's not the relationship you want with your carry gun.

I think if your expected adversaries are bears or rhinos then yeah, bring the biggest thing you've got ... which is going to be a rifle. And a friend with another rifle. I guess it couldn't hurt to take a big handgun along as a backup, but if you're reduced to that, good luck.

 

[periopdoc]

A properly loaded .357 is capable of taking down a small black bear, but it really isn't sufficient. I have hunted black bear with a 6" Colt Python, but I was certain to get way up in a tree cause I didn't want to be anywhere near the ground with a wounded bear. Reflecting on it, I do not believe that it was particularly ethical to use this caliber weapon in this manner. Most Alaskan's agree that a .44 mag is minimum for bear hunting/ protection whether brown or black. .454 Casull is a popular handgun in Alaska when you don't know what you are going to encounter.

Keep in mind that I have seen a "small" black bear continue a charge despite sustaining massive head injury from three 300 grain .375 H&H bullets that made mush of his skull and scrambled eggs of his brains.

So you may have a bear munching on you for a while before he dies if you elect to shoot him with a handgun of any caliber.

I have no experience with wild boar. The best defense against a crack addicts is to concealed carry a big rock and throw it on the ground if they attack you.

- pod

 

[Noyac]

A properly loaded .357 is capable of taking down a small black bear, but it really isn't sufficient. I have hunted black bear with a 6" Colt Python, but I was certain to get way up in a tree cause I didn't want to be anywhere near the ground with a wounded bear. Reflecting on it, I do not believe that it was particularly ethical to use this caliber weapon in this manner. Most Alaskan's agree that a .44 mag is minimum for bear hunting/ protection whether brown or black. .454 Casull is a popular handgun in Alaska when you don't know what you are going to encounter.

Keep in mind that I have seen a "small" black bear continue a charge despite sustaining massive head injury from three 300 grain .375 H&H bullets that made mush of his skull and scrambled eggs of his brains.

So you may have a bear munching on you for a while before he dies if you elect to shoot him with a handgun of any caliber.

I have no experience with wild boar. The best defense against a crack addicts is to concealed carry a big rock and throw it on the ground if they attack you.

- pod

And the next question becomes, why in the world would you hunt a bear?

 

[Ride Big Sky]

Because bear is damn tasty when done properly!

 

[doctor712]

What do you all think?

I've shot the Glocks and the 357s, Dad was a fed and let me play with his toys. Shot lots else too. You really want something effective, but practically speaking, if you are trained/practice to use the gun properly Blade, shouldn't matter which you use. To me, you couldn't pay me to carry that honking 357 around, that is one heavy beast, and I think you'd have to be some shot to make that as accurate as a Glock 9mm. You give up a little accuracy to be able to shoot through a cinderblock. Good thing we're not made out of cement.

I'll throw my Ithica .45 in the mix.
And I agree the 9mm won't even stop the crack addict.

Wholeheartedly disagree about the crack addict, Noy. You unload 9 shots with a Glock mid-mass into a crack addict (which you should know how to do if you carry a weapon) despite what hollywood will have you believe, they are going down, or they will be stopped. 99/100. And if we want to argue the extreme, it'll be enough for you to pop in a 2nd clip and keep playing. Should take you 5-7 seconds to dump 20 shots into said addict...but, come on, will you really need to? Are we talking about the one big dude who can take 5 shots to the shoulder? You hit him where you are supposed to, how much fat does it take to go through the heart or lungs or brain? Makes no diff. Yeah, yeah, adrenaline and all that pain stuff (i get it, but) let's be realistic, if you can't drop 'em with 10 shots from a Glock, then you can carry two 357s and you're still in deep s hit!

I would just learn how to shoot properly and carry the most comfortable weapon. That's the goal I think.

Here's a good way to think about it: do the Secret Service and FBI, or even local police, DEA, ATF, Army run around with 357s on their hips, or do they use 9mms or .45s semi automatic? Sure, they have the shotgun in the trunk, but that's where it usually stays. And sure they need bullet counts, but they have quick loaders for the 6 shooters, they just know how to shoot and have learned the better killing machine is a small, fast weapon with good precision. Again, if you can't knock something down mid mass with 2, 3 even 5 shots, then just RUN. HAHA. I'd grab a small Glock or a Sig or something. Great guns.

No informed opinion about the bear...

D712

 

[doctor712]

Remember, the addict weighs 350 pounds and is 6'6" and coming at you with an Axe.

I missed this part. And I thought I had a vivid imagination...

D712

 

[Salt Creep]

I'm a big fan of wheelguns, unless there's a high likelihood of finding yourself in a target-rich environment. They're rock-solid reliable and require very little maintenance.

I've never liked the 9mm largely for overpenetration and lack of stopping power concerns. I think the same thing about a .357 Small bullet travelling too fast for soft-skinned targets that I'd be more likely to engage.

I have a cousin who's a now-retired state trooper, who carried a 357 for a long time. He had a guy emerge from a car with a shotgun coming toward him, so he unloaded 5 into the guy's chest, who continued to advance. Put the 6th into the dude's hip to give him time to reload, which worked. His distaste of the 357 convinced me. Reading reports like one in which an NVA troop got a full-auto blast of 9mm from a Swedish K and escaped makes me leary of what I think of as the auto version of a 357.

If you're trying to use 1 weapon to satisfy a large range of target types (big difference in the skin of a crack addict and of a boar/bear), I'd probably look at a 44 Mag, with 44 spl for the crack addict and 44 Mags for the 4-legged animals. Load the type of ammo commensurate with the environment in which you expect to be (spl's for concrete jungles). Shoot soft-nose (not HP) for the wild game - I shot a whitetail last year at 35 yards with a Hydrashok, and he was able to get back up and f'in vanish. The bullet didn't completely penetrate (no blood where he'd laid on his side). Changed to softnose, and dropped 2 easily with them.

You could also consider a 454 Casull, and carry a 45 long colts for soft skin targets & practice, and the 454's for the big stuff.

 

[residentx2]

My vote is the 7.62x25 Tokarev, not as powerfull as .44 mag but very loud report (sounds like a cannon) and decent stopping power for the crack addict. For the bear, go with the .44 mag and try not to hit yourself in the head with the recoil.

7.62x25 "This cartridge has excellent penetration and can easily defeat lighter ballistic vests (class I, IIA and II) as well as some kevlar helmets, such as the American PASGT helmet"

 

[Salt Creep]

... not as powerfull as .44 mag but very loud report (sounds like a cannon) ...

If you want a loud report, nothing beats the North American Arms .22 (LR) I carry when bicycling. 1/2" barrel + CCI Stingers = LOUD. I think it's the loudest thing I own.

Most certainly would not recommend it for any of the targets specified above, unless you're able to consistently hit directly in the pupil (contact with the iris might slow the round too much, or cause it to deflect) - a quite challenging task, to say the least.

 

[Jay K]

And the next question becomes, why in the world would you hunt a bear?

I agree as well, but interestingly enough in my neck of the woods people hunt black bear regularly. They also make sausage out of 'em; Heard tell they taste like really fatty pork. I've no interest in hunting carnivores myself. Abundant non-protected birds, small game and over-populated herbivores are another story though.

 

[Laryngophed]

I agree as well, but interestingly enough in my neck of the woods people hunt black bear regularly. They also make sausage out of 'em; Heard tell they taste like really fatty pork. I've no interest in hunting carnivores myself. Abundant non-protected birds, small game and over-populated herbivores are another story though.

You were traumatized by a rabbit when you were younger, weren't you?

 

[Coastie]

Desert Eagle, baby!


http://www.impactguns.com/store/761226022350.html

 

[periopdoc]

You were traumatized by a rabbit when you were younger, weren't you?

Probably this one.

-pod

 

[Laryngophed]

Probably this one.

-pod

 

[kraphtymac]

44 mag that you spend a lot of time and the range with shooting 44 special. No matter what round you choose, it won't matter if you don't have a) the range time or b) a revolver. If you truly are picking a gun for self defense against large (or drug addicted) mammals, you want one that you can wield quickly, and if it for some reason goes "click" instead of "click-bang", you can simply cock the hammer and pull the trigger, or just pull the trigger, to discharge the weapon again.

S&W 50 is nice, but they are also HUGE, and don't make much sense even for a bear gun. S&W line of scandium-titanium revolvers are very nice. Sure they are light and pack lots of recoil, but they are meant to be carried often and fired infrequently. Hence the practice with 44 special.

 

[killerleaf]

my hubby, who is a retired police officer, can testify that a 9mm Glock will not stop a crack addict when shot in the head...apparently the bullets managed to go in, skim around the skull, and exit out the back. however, your 6'8" 450lb partner tackling said shot crack addict will finally take him down. btw he lived.

Nor will a 9mm Glock drop a 75lb chow. close up, again, bullet went in, skimmed around the skull, went out the back. The dog took off, was taken to vet by owner, and lived. weird.

 

[2win]

Because bear is damn tasty when done properly!

How do you marinate the bear?
I love also the bear sausages.

 

[doctor712]

my hubby, who is a retired police officer, can testify that a 9mm Glock will not stop a crack addict when shot in the head...

will not? did not? or won't ever? or usually will?

D712

 

[killerleaf]

hmm..how about: in his controlled study, the result was that a 9mm Glock would not stop the crack addict or a chow. Unfortunately, no other test subjects were enrolled in study. The study was cancelled after 15 years, since only two subjects ever enrolled.

 

[periopdoc]

My favorite is black bear rib barbecue when the bears have been eating blueberries. They are the size of beef ribs, but taste like baby backs and are just as tender if cooked right.

Of course just about anything is good when barbecued correctly.

- pod

 

[2win]

My favorite is black bear rib barbecue when the bears have been eating blueberries. They are the size of beef ribs, but taste like baby backs and are just as tender if cooked right.

Of course just about anything is good when barbecued correctly.

- pod

Doctor Pod - you are not only a great physician - you know also what LIFE means. I hope that I'll meet you one day...and we'll enjoy a bike ride in Washington and Oregon. Drinks on me dude!!!
And maybe Missoula sometimes,
Have a great weekend.
2win

 

[proman]

When I was a medic in Atlanta, this guy high on PCP was brought in by Grady EMS. Shot 19 times in the back (APD used 9mm). Not a single bullet went past his muscles and the guy had to be restrained and given massive doses of Haldol.

BTW I picked 40 S&W by looking at which shootings were lethal and which weren't. I've never seen someone shot (head, chest or abdomen) with a 40 S&W live.

 

[usnavdoc]

my hubby, who is a retired police officer, can testify that a 9mm Glock will not stop a crack addict when shot in the head...apparently the bullets managed to go in, skim around the skull, and exit out the back. however, your 6'8" 450lb partner tackling said shot crack addict will finally take him down. btw he lived.

Nor will a 9mm Glock drop a 75lb chow. close up, again, bullet went in, skimmed around the skull, went out the back. The dog took off, was taken to vet by owner, and lived. weird.

While I don’t doubt your story at all, we all have stories of bullets skidding around ribs or skulls. 10-15 years ago police agencies went to the 40sw b/c of anecdotal stories like this. As well as the LA shoot out fall out.(which more than anything told us that shot placement and training are key)

Today though, modernization of bullet design has to be taken into consideration. The 9mm now has very consistent expansion and penetration on par with the 40sw and 45ACP. It has more capacity in a comparable size handgun, and is more controllable for follow up shots. And that is what you should be training for...the follow up shots. Handguns are poor fight stoppers to begin with, so you need to be training for more than one shot.

That being said. The original question was not just a self defense question. If you are talking wild game in the southeastern US(boar/black bear/crack addict) 44mag is what you should be considering. If you are headed up to grizzly country you need a rifle. I wouldn’t want to face off with a 1500pound bear with any handgun as my only weapon.

 

[usnavdoc]

When I was a medic in Atlanta, this guy high on PCP was brought in by Grady EMS. Shot 19 times in the back (APD used 9mm). Not a single bullet went past his muscles and the guy had to be restrained and given massive doses of Haldol.

BTW I picked 40 S&W by looking at which shootings were lethal and which weren't. I've never seen someone shot (head, chest or abdomen) with a 40 S&W live.

I have(not head of course). I have also seen someone recently shot 5 times by apd in chest and abd and come in fighting. They now carry 40sw.

All this tells us is that handguns are poor fight stoppers, shot placement is king, and prepare for multiple shots.

I would also say that the typical self defense calibers are not the best for wild game.

 

[Surfer]

Here's a good way to think about it: do the Secret Service and FBI, or even local police, DEA, ATF, Army run around with 357s on their hips, or do they use 9mms or .45s semi automatic? Sure, they have the shotgun in the trunk, but that's where it usually stays. And sure they need bullet counts, but they have quick loaders for the 6 shooters, they just know how to shoot and have learned the better killing machine is a small, fast weapon with good precision. Again, if you can't knock something down mid mass with 2, 3 even 5 shots, then just RUN. HAHA. I'd grab a small Glock or a Sig or something. Great guns.


D712

FBI uses the 10mm. carries a lot more power than a 9mm. I think the .40 his the sweet spot for my tastes. its true when they say a 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." you don't want to have to unload your whole clip to stop one person. you might have multiple bogeys coming at you. one shot, one kill.

 

[doctor712]

hmm..how about: in his controlled study, the result was that a 9mm Glock would not stop the crack addict or a chow. Unfortunately, no other test subjects were enrolled in study. The study was cancelled after 15 years, since only two subjects ever enrolled.

Fair enough.

 

[doctor712]

FBI uses the 10mm. carries a lot more power than a 9mm. I think the .40 his the sweet spot for my tastes. its true when they say a 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." you don't want to have to unload your whole clip to stop one person. you might have multiple bogeys coming at you. one shot, one kill.

I agree the .40 is a great choice, and didn't know FBI moved over to 10mm. SService uses Sigs to my knowledge, or they did when dad intro'd me to some of those guys. Other agencies use Berettas, S&W, so many choices. I guess my only point was 9mm/10mm/.40 for self defense on a daily basis. Not the honking revolvers.

Couple posters have said it's about shooting skills, and I agree. The anecdotal 5 shots and still standing, I still feel is far from the norm. Especially with the ammo being used by these agencies now. One ATF guy explained to me what ONE bullet did to a guy's internal organs when it opened up upon impact (person died). But then again, that bullet is made to do that.

And Blade, remember, 9 out of 10 shootings take place within ~5-7 feet from target. Don't just learn how to hit a target 30 feet away, really learn how the cops shoot someone 5 feet away, when you don't have time to aim as normal, they are trained to put two into you right away from the hip area, near holster, one motion. my 1/2 brother (cop) demonstrated to me recently. I've never practiced this and would only do so with someone trained. Lest you wanna throw one into your femoral.

Funny weaponry aside, I went to visit a local NOAA office, they have their own Federal Agents ( http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ole/ole_about.html ) in metro NY area.
cool gig as far as feds go, get cool rides, boats, some cool surveillance/motion stuff, they enforce fishery laws. but are dept of commerce. full deal. And I was sitting in this guys' office and talking about guns, it was a really small regional office, 3 guys. But he was the only one there at the time. I was asking him about his gun, wanted to see if it was the same one dad carried, and he pulled it out of the small of his back, holstered (i can't imagine that being a comfortable place to carry a weapon, but he liked it concealed there) and emptied the chamber, took the clip out and handed it to me. He said, "stand up," "get a feel for it", "take aim". He was saying, "It's a little small for your hand, you'd get a bigger size." But I cannot help but think back that had his partners walked into this old office, I was standing in this guys office, across his desk, holding a gun, pointed at him (who anyone entering the office, couldn't have seen - they would only have seen ME.) That could have been bad...

Another funny defense weaponry aside, back in 80s, dad was working on a case that I came to read about after he gave me a briefcase of news clippings years later. He didn't do violent guys much, but had arrest records in NYC for his agency that stand to this day, and in Philly too. These guys, this case, was bad. I discovered a fake ID, his photo, with someone else's name on it. he was doing the only deep undercover that i've known him to do. One day at home. I was 7 or 8. He sat me down and told me that if I ever told anyone that name, it could be really bad. He lectured to me for about 30 minutes. He then wanted to show me something cool, maybe as a reward, or that he trusted me and to do something nice so I would indeed keep my mouth shut. Took me into my parents bedroom and unwrapped a huge shotgun that was in newspaper, and whipped out an old fashioned bullet proof vest. the old white kind. (turns out they were going in for the arrest some days later). so, my sister runs in, 9 or 10, and wants to try it on, the vest. I held the shotgun, i thought i was wyatt earp. anyway, so my sister tries it on and, untrue to form, (i never laid a finger on her despite her beating the crap out of me for most of my youth) i wound up and punched her as hard as i could in her chest. i figured, "well, if it stops a bullet, a punch wouldn't even hurt." now THAT's true to form for 7 year old D712. she went down. hard. onto my parents' bed. dad explained, yes, it will stop a bullet from killing you, but it will still, CLEARLY -- hurt. this was rural PA where dad was transferred for a little. probably went to a phillies game after that. caught some pete rose and steve carlton. i was a card carrying member of the mike schmidt fan club.

back to guns boys and girls.

D712

 

[Shadowfax8]

I've had this conversation before with a friend that used to work as a hunting guide in Alaska, now a private practice ortho surgeon. There's a BIG difference when dealing with brown bear (grizz) rather than black bear. Caliber ballistics with regards to tissue penetration and injury are very similar between human and black bearj; i.e. SW 40 cal will usually suffice for either (PCP aside). However, with brown bear, particularly if charging at you, the name of the game is skull penatrance. If charged, your site picture is going to primarily consist of the the bear's head which will be low. In these cases, my friend felt that .50 were insufficient whether it be SW 500, or the weaker 50 AE from a Desert Eagle. while they provide massive momentum (mass x velocity), lack sufficient velocity to penetrate the frontal portion of a grizzly skull. The side arm of choice of my friend and his colleagues back in the day was a .454 casull, but now most guides are carrying .460 SW due to it's incredible velocity (up to 2,300 fps with 200 grain). He backs up his recommendations with personal experience of shooting the skulls of brown bear carcass over the years he was a guide.

 

[kazuma]

I hope to never find myself face to face with a bear and only a handgun to defend myself. Bear skulls are very thick and dense. It wouldn't surprise me to see common handgun bullets like 9mm or .40 just glance off the skull and irritate said bear, even a .45 cal.

However, I would trust my HK .40sw to do what it needed to do against a crack/PCP head as long as I had the proper load. I can get 13 round magazines, which isn't bad. IMHO, the .40 is a great caliber. It has plenty of knock down power, but you can shoot it all day long with less fatigue than you would get with a .45 and the ammo is also cheaper than .45 caliber. Just my .02.

 

[Mofeen]

A real 10mm is where its at. Most factory loaded loaded 10mm is rather weak, but anything from Double Tap or Buffalo bore is where it is at. Basically a 41 magnum in a auto loader, with 15 round capacity in Glock 20 form. Add a 6 inch aftermarket barrel, and you can get an extra 100 fps. NASTY.

 

[rn29306]

I've had this conversation before with a friend that used to work as a hunting guide in Alaska, now a private practice ortho surgeon. There's a BIG difference when dealing with brown bear (grizz) rather than black bear. Caliber ballistics with regards to tissue penetration and injury are very similar between human and black bearj; i.e. SW 40 cal will usually suffice for either (PCP aside). However, with brown bear, particularly if charging at you, the name of the game is skull penatrance. If charged, your site picture is going to primarily consist of the the bear's head which will be low. In these cases, my friend felt that .50 were insufficient whether it be SW 500, or the weaker 50 AE from a Desert Eagle. while they provide massive momentum (mass x velocity), lack sufficient velocity to penetrate the frontal portion of a grizzly skull. The side arm of choice of my friend and his colleagues back in the day was a .454 casull, but now most guides are carrying .460 SW due to it's incredible velocity (up to 2,300 fps with 200 grain). He backs up his recommendations with personal experience of shooting the skulls of brown bear carcass over the years he was a guide.

The Ruger Alaskan in .454 trim. Great wheelgun, rather short barrel, can be worn in a chest holster that is immediately ready to point and aim.

 

[BitingPlates]

Gentlemen, may you please refrain from calling magazines clips.

Haha, for bears and other really large creatures you need a lot of kinetic energy to incapacitate. I am heading out west to do some backpacking for a few weeks this summer and I might pick up a Smith and Wesson 44mag, scandium frame with 4 inch barrel. The combination of that piece and some 300 grain hard cast rounds should be able to slow down a bear efficiently. I am mainly worried about dealing with grizzlies, which are much larger than the black bears. I will be carrying bear spray and will use it first, but if it does not deter the bear this is where the handgun comes into play.

I carry the glock 27 with winchester ranger sxt rounds. Sick combination that will devastate most people hitting center mass. For large animals, 44mag is what I would carry. The larger caliber revolvers jump really bad and it will take longer to regain target acquisition. So many people sweat the huge caliber guns, yet they can't even control them and place accurate shots in a timely fashion.

These choices are based on my opinion for backpacking and weight issues. If I was in Alaska or weight was not an issue, rifle with out a doubt. I really like the Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun.

 

[AbbyNormal]

I will be carrying bear spray and will use it first, but if it does not deter the bear this is where the handgun comes into play.

srsly?

Bear spray? I'm thinking I would rather not let an angry bear get close enough to me that bear spray would be my first choice.

I always carry my .40 hiking on my farm but we don't have grizzly bear here, just black bear and bob cats and some smaller predators like coyote. I think if I were at risk of meeting a grizzly I would prefer my AR15 and carry the handgun as backup.

 

[BitingPlates]

srsly?

Bear spray? I'm thinking I would rather not let an angry bear get close enough to me that bear spray would be my first choice.

I always carry my .40 hiking on my farm but we don't have grizzly bear here, just black bear and bob cats and some smaller predators like coyote. I think if I were at risk of meeting a grizzly I would prefer my AR15 and carry the handgun as backup.

Yes bear spray. I carry spray and my piece on my sternum strap of my pack, and both come out fast. If spray does not make it turn a charging bear I will drop the spray with one hand and take first shot( and **** my pants haha).

I really don't want to harm a bear, I understand I am in its habitat.

 

[Salt Creep]

FBI uses the 10mm. carries a lot more power than a 9mm.

The FBI didn't like the 10mm and changed to the .40 because of concerns of too much recoil, and the frame being too large for small-handed officers.

We can, however, thank the FBI for providing impetus for the development of the .40, which started as a shortened and reduced-recoil 10mm. (They first reduced the recoil, which led to feed problems, then shortened it which led to the ability to carry a smaller weapon.)

 

[usnavdoc]

The FBI didn't like the 10mm and changed to the .40 because of concerns of too much recoil, and the frame being too large for small-handed officers.

We can, however, thank the FBI for providing impetus for the development of the .40, which started as a shortened and reduced-recoil 10mm. (They first reduced the recoil, which led to feed problems, then shortened it which led to the ability to carry a smaller weapon.)

That was in the mid-late 80s.

 

[Phlame217]

I carry a glock 26 on me 24/7 and use Gold Dot 127 gr +p JHP ammo.
Glock 17 stays bedside while at home.

Has plenty of stopping power for me. Its taken out a charging pit bull in two rounds, let alone any other pup who decides to attack. I've yet to see in person what it does to a human, but the pit bull's head looked like a watermelon after a sledge hammer impacts it. My dad is a retired police officer and has taught me many tactics including the quick draw with the quick two burst shots. In some circumstances, it requires a three burst with first two at central body mass and the third a slower, but more steady head shot. My father has taken down a PCP druggy and said he did the two round burst to the chest and it significantly slowed the idiot, but the third to the head dropped him.

Now as to the stopping power against a wild boar, the 147 gr JHP gold dot ammo allows more penetration and my neighbor who has some land he hunts on for deer carrys a glock 17 with said ammo along with his 30-06 and has successfully taken out a wild boar with said 9mm ammo.

I do agree though that a 9mm may only piss off a bear, but unloading two clips worth of bullets numbering close to 38 rounds would severely hinder the bear.

 

[poresofkohn]

srsly?

Bear spray? I'm thinking I would rather not let an angry bear get close enough to me that bear spray would be my first choice.

I always carry my .40 hiking on my farm but we don't have grizzly bear here, just black bear and bob cats and some smaller predators like coyote. I think if I were at risk of meeting a grizzly I would prefer my AR15 and carry the handgun as backup.

>
They say you should always carry pepper spray and wear bells on your shoes when hiking in grizzly country. And its easy to tell the difference between grizzly and black bear scat because the grizzly scat smells like pepper and has bells in it. BTW - a .223 would definatly NOT be my first choice in griz country.