Hard science MSc vs smp

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HCN4

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Quick question. With a 3.63 cGPA, significant upward trend, and an mcat yet to be written (hopefully high). Some heavy research and volunteering. Which would you choose for a 2 year gap period ?

A) a 1.5 year master of science in human biology at the University of Zurich in Switzerland (ranked 25ish worldwide for biological research) - this is mostly course based but has a big thesis component so has research.

B) a 1 year master of biomedical science at rutgers university in the US (similar ranking) which is an smp and has okay promises to high performing grads for entry to their med school - this is purely course based I believe.

I know the smp kind of sounds better for a career in medicine but I just really wanna go to Switzerland lol. And I also heard smp benefits those with a low gpa most. So what would you choose if you were accepted to both?

P.S. swiss tuition is pretty much free but living expenses add up to 40k a year. Rutgers is 30k in tuition. Oh and I'm canadian.

Thank you.
 
With a 3.63 cGPA, significant upward trend,

You're GPA is high enough; I wouldn't do an SMP, which is really intended for those with lower GPAs, in your situation.
 
What do you hope to get out of a Master's program? Why not get a job instead?
 
The foreign degree will not be used in GPA calculation by AMCAS. It is essentially useless

Wow I did not think of that actually. Thank you.

You're GPA is high enough; I wouldn't do an SMP, which is really intended for those with lower GPAs, in your situation.

But if I were to do one or the other. Wouldn't you think the SMP is better for a USMD school?

What do you hope to get out of a Master's program? Why not get a job instead?

Honestly... I love research and Europe and I want to learn German lol. I know it won't help much but I don't wanna get a job nor do I wanna further my undergrad. I just wanna do something well fun for once rather than just something to enhance my competitiveness for med. And a gap year with nothing productive is not looked upon favorably so I have to avoid that. On top of all that, my ultimate career goal is becoming an academic clinician, so a MSC won't hurt.
 
Wouldn't you think the SMP is better for a USMD school?

SMPs are generally meant for those who have low GPAs to demonstrate that they are capable of handling the academic rigors of medical school; since you've already shown that with your > 3.6 GPA (I assume the science GPA is similar?), I don't see how it would add much to your application. Besides, if you don't perform well in an SMP, it'll raise red flags to adcoms. Given the risk and high cost, I don't see how doing an SMP would be valuable in your situation.
 
SMPs are generally meant for those who have low GPAs to demonstrate that they are capable of handling the academic rigors of medical school; since you've already shown that with your > 3.6 GPA (I assume the science GPA is similar?), I don't see how it would add much to your application. Besides, if you don't perform well in an SMP, it'll raise red flags to adcoms. Given the risk and high cost, I don't see how doing an SMP would be valuable in your situation.

I see what you mean. Yes my sGPA is pretty much 85% of the courses so 3.61 with 3rd and 4th years at 3.87 and 3.96. Problem is that I always took 8-9 courses a year as I took a lot of research courses in the summers, doesn't that speak badly about my ability to put on a heavy medical curriculum?

Just for the sake of the argument, let's assume its either SMP, MSc or 2 years of Netflix.

Okay, if we put the risk aside, the question stripped to the bone becomes: with the above stats, does an SMP at Rutgers enhance my admission chances at Rutgers (only) more than an MSc at UZH (Zurich) would enhance my overall chance at USMD schools? As I will be applying in the cycle before I even finish either program, the SMP is only relevant for Rutgers as it saves the gap year; and only the "concept" of having an MSc from UZH (regardless of grades anyway) will potentially benefit my admission to an allo school. I guess another complication is that I'm not certain how receptive the Rutgers med schools are to the SMP grads especially if they are Canadian. Website claims the SMP is not selective by in/out state and the med schools (I phoned them, they tried to be ambiguous) claim they treat SMPs as in-state, while SDN claims Rutgers really favors in-state (FML-much?).
 
with the above stats, does an SMP at Rutgers enhance my admission chances at Rutgers (only) more than an MSc at UZH (Zurich) would enhance my overall chance at USMD schools?

I don't really know the details of the Rugers SMP so I can't say whether or not it would help you at their school specifically, but I agree with the user above - the Swiss masters won't really help your application at medical schools, though it does seem like a great (although expensive) experience for you personally.
 
Thank you. All of you.

Having spoken with someone from Rutgers just now they said even if I finish the MBS from their institution I will always be treated as out of state, and they're known for favoring in-state when it comes to the MD. So I guess Zurich is the way to go for now 😀 But yeah, money is a real obstacle, Switzerland is after all the most expensive country in the world.
 
Work or go do a year or two year long volunteer gig overseas if you have the itch to travel. Some good volunteer experience overseas for 1-2 yrs will make a great addition to your application. A 3.6 is a fine gpa to apply with ,especially with upward trend. Do you have good clinical volunteering/shadowing? If not, take care of that as well.
 
The MSc will be really useful for a career outside of medical school/Medicine, but not helpful for applying to med school.

The SMP is an audition for med school. Do well in it (GPA of 3.6+) and there are many MD schools that reward reinvention. But you'll need to ace MCAT as well.



Quick question. With a 3.63 cGPA, significant upward trend, and an mcat yet to be written (hopefully high). Some heavy research and volunteering. Which would you choose for a 2 year gap period ?

A) a 1.5 year master of science in human biology at the University of Zurich in Switzerland (ranked 25ish worldwide for biological research) - this is mostly course based but has a big thesis component so has research.

B) a 1 year master of biomedical science at rutgers university in the US (similar ranking) which is an smp and has okay promises to high performing grads for entry to their med school - this is purely course based I believe.

I know the smp kind of sounds better for a career in medicine but I just really wanna go to Switzerland lol. And I also heard smp benefits those with a low gpa most. So what would you choose if you were accepted to both?

P.S. swiss tuition is pretty much free but living expenses add up to 40k a year. Rutgers is 30k in tuition. Oh and I'm canadian.

Thank you.
 
I agree. But if I have two dead years in my life, I'd rather get something that adds a designation to my name (e.g. MSc) than a job or a volunteer experience abroad, if you know what I mean. I will be rewriting the MCAT this January 🙂 because, honestly, after so many applications I've come to realize medicine is more about numbers that anyone would like to admit. Neither a publication in nature nor an Ig Nobel Prize will offset a bad MCAT or GPA. This MSc will merely be a decoration to my application, nothing else. Can't get over the temptation to attend in the halls that Einstein studied and Schrödinger taught in lol.
 
I don't think you actually understand. Doing an SMP, regardless of the institution and the GPA you could get, would be absolutely worthless for you with your GPA. SMPs cost a lot of time and money (40k-50k). They are extremely stressful and what happens if you don't excel? You negate the validity of your 3.6+ uGPA, that's what.

You can literally put in the same time and effort into focusing on your MCAT. Get a 514+ (33+) and you've got a 75% of getting in considering your ECs and essays and interviews are up to snuff. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

Not only can you put the effort into the MCAT and upgrading/maintaining your ECs for the next few years, but you can actually make some ****ing money doing so. You are delusional if you think a great job won't help. Go into research and get some pubs, or do public and community health. You can do this, make money, build your ECs, and prepare for a great MCAT showing and be far better off in terms of life than doing an SMP. If you really care about a specific masters program, then you can do that! Do what you are passionate about. Go to switzerland and explore it, your passions will come out in your essays and interviews if that's what you want. You don't need a GPA fixer.

Anyway, just don't waste your time with an SMP. Seriously, this is coming from someone who has done an SMP and knows the in and outs.
 
I agree. But if I have two dead years in my life, I'd rather get something that adds a designation to my name (e.g. MSc) than a job or a volunteer experience abroad, if you know what I mean. I will be rewriting the MCAT this January 🙂 because, honestly, after so many applications I've come to realize medicine is more about numbers that anyone would like to admit. Neither a publication in nature nor an Ig Nobel Prize will offset a bad MCAT or GPA. This MSc will merely be a decoration to my application, nothing else. Can't get over the temptation to attend in the halls that Einstein studied and Schrödinger taught in lol.
I would be willing to bet that HCN4 - 2 year peace corp volunteer (insert any other good volunteer commitment) would be a hell of a lot more impressive that HCN4 - MSc at the end of your name. SMPs give master degrees as well, do you think anyone really cares about that title behind their name, or really anything about their program other than them being able to handle a simulated med school courseload?

If you want to go there for a life experience / possibly some backup career move, then that's one thing, but having an MSc after your name means nothing and won't be as helpful as doing something more altruistic, research gaining you publications, or at least working for two years and helping save up money for all the debt you will gain in med school. Heck I think just traveling the world for 6 months - a year would be a lot more interesting of a story to adcoms.
 
Uhh....

Do you actually want to become a physician? You're wasting your ****ing time with either of those options.

That is all.
 
Jesus guys lol. I guess there is a general agreement that there are many better options that the ones I am thinking about for my 2 gap years.

But for those completely against the SMP:

Thing is, aren't SMPs made for three purposes?
A) boost low GPA
B) show your ability to handle heavy coursework
C) show your ability to handle medical courses specifically (this is what a Professor from Rutgers told me; that even some--albeit few--non-Rutgers medical schools will be interested in knowing how I did in those medical courses even if I didn't yet finish the SMP by the time I apply).

Perhaps I don't need the first, but isn't a 3.7ish better than 3.63? Having never taken more than 9 courses a year speaks bad to my workload and good record on medical courses is never a bad thing.

So SMPs were not made for the class of applicants I belong to, sure, but I don't see how it won't benefit at all. However, yes I certainly see the massive risk associated: you screw up, you pretty much screw up the whole career path. So in my situation, risk outweighs the benefit imo. I like what you said about the stress too. It's true, SMPs are too stressful for someone who doesn't really NEED them, all the more reason to follow what I'm passionate about and anticipate to be more "fun:" MSc.

For those against both options:

Not that I want to get a job, but do you really think a degree in Physiology can get a "great" job? Especially here in Canada, the land of opportunities, NOT. You'd be astonished to know the number of my classmates from U of Toronto (believe it or not, ranked anywhere from 2 to 25 globally) going to a community college after graduation to find a job. I honestly think think that the BEST job I can get right now, is shelving meds at a pharmacy (oh if I get lucky, because apparently pharmacy assistance legally requires a license here), flipping burgers at McDonalds (I'm not even competitive because others actually have previous relevant experiences), and so on. That's one reason to why I'm dismissing this option.. :/

With regard to research and publications, I feel I have enough to hurt my application because of suggesting a relatively low interest in clinical medicine lol. After a short while I should be having 3-5 publications with many many research projects, conferences, etc.

For something altruistic... Hm. Now for that, touche. But I personally would rather get a MSc than volunteer for 2 years straight. It's just personal preference and professional interest.

Either way, I will be dedicating 3-4 months right now to study the MCAT with absolutely nothing else on my plate (no job, no school, nothing). So I will be improving that hopefully. That's for those suggesting I focus on my stats rather than waste my time with things that won't really help the application.
 
An SMP is a horrendous idea with a 3.6 GPA. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing one. You don't put yourself in a position where you have to beat out the majority of medical students in their classes(which is what you need to for an SMP) unless you absolutely have to.

An SMP is of no benefit to you because a 3.6 GPA already proves you are a solid academic student and your GPA is near the lines of what a median MD matriculant has.

Do well on the MCAT. That is far more important than anything else right now for you. Build up your altruism by doing some volunteering as well, perhaps while you study for the MCAT.
 
But for those completely against the SMP:

Thing is, aren't SMPs made for three purposes?
A) boost low GPA
B) show your ability to handle heavy coursework
C) show your ability to handle medical courses specifically (this is what a Professor from Rutgers told me; that even some--albeit few--non-Rutgers medical schools will be interested in knowing how I did in those medical courses even if I didn't yet finish the SMP by the time I apply).

NO!

SMPs are made for ONE purpose: to boost low GPA.

WHY do you want to boost a low GPA? Because you want to show your ability to handle heavy coursework and medical courses.

Your purposes B and C are only supportive of purpose A.

Anyway OP, as you seem incapable of taking advice, let me lay this out for you.
1) The best SMP programs will most likely not accept you. Why? Because they would see the spot you take up as a waste of space for someone that needs it.
2) If you did an SMP with your GPA, it would be seen as incredibly poor decision making, and you cannot possess this quality as a physician. Stupid stupid stupid.
 
This was not meant to be an argument, but since you decided to end your comment by repeating the word stupid. I'll have to respond.

No, let's have some logic lessons. Free for now.

B and C are not supportive of A. Explanation:
A) Claim: ability to handle heavy coursework and medical courses = high GPA in SMP.
B) Fact: high GPA in SMP =/= high GPA in heavy and medical course load environment, why? Because you can spread some SMPs over 4 years if you wish, you could take easy electives, or you could even opt out of taking medical courses at all.
C) Result: ability to handle heavy course work =/= ability to handle medical courses =/= ability to get a high GPA in a certain program

Therefore, B and C are neither results nor logical corollaries of A. They partially but necessarily depend on different logical parameters.

A) Claim: I am incapable of taking advice
B) Fact: The following are excerpts from my comments above:
- Wow I did not think of that actually. Thank you.
- So in my situation, risk outweighs the benefit imo. I like what you said about the stress too. It's true, SMPs are too stressful for someone who doesn't really NEED them.
- For something altruistic... Hm. Now for that, touche.
C) Result: the facts imply that I am often agreeing and changing my decisions based on what the audience is suggesting.

Therefore, I can take advice.

A) Claim: doing an SMP with a 3.63 GPA = poor decision making
B) Fact 1: doing an SMP and doing well under heavy medical courseload = proof I can handle medical school = a low level of support of application.
C) Fact 2: doing an SMP and doing bad under heavy medical courseload = proof I can't handle medical school = a big setback to application.
D) Fact 3: doing an SMP and doing bad = bad decision making = stupid stupid stupid, but ALSO = bad physician anyway because you can't even handle medical course load
E) Result: Risk outweighs benefit, true. But ALSO, if I don't do well in an SMP, I shouldn't be headed to medicine in the first place. If doing an SMP and doing bad is a risk for an applicant then the applicant is not suitable for a career in medicine which, when neglecting the factors of stress, implies that avoiding an SMP when it's on the table = bad physician. According to you, TAKING this SMP for me = bad decision making = bad physician. Hmm.. you have a contradiction.

Therefore, considering the SMP in light of risk alone is not logical, other factors such as stress must be included. And hence, my considering the SMP =/= bad decision making.

Overall conclusion:
Fact: you failed to answer the question accurately and to follow the flow of the thread
NOT a fact: I failed to take advice.
Therefore, if stupid is a relative word, I wonder who is stupid.
 
What they're saying is that it's akin to retaking a 35 equivalent MCAT. It doesn't help much but can hurt even more. That is bad decision making. Physicians as a whole are risk adversive people.

We hear that you took light course loads, but you've come out with a pretty good GPA. The Zurich option may be good. You can take a full course load there and do well. If an adcom brings up that you took light course loads then you respond:

"Well, I know my work in Zurich doesn't officially count toward my GPA, but I took full science course loads there and did well. It is a very reputable school and I'm proud of my work there. I was able to prove to myself that I should be able to handle the rigors of medical school."

It's an online forum, try not to take it personally. I know it can be difficult to do that.
 
This is a classic example of someone having their mind set on something coming on here in the name "of asking for input" when really they are seeking validation, and getting upset when people don't validate it and highlight the flaws in their thinking.

OP will do what they want. What their rant has shown is a lack of understanding of SMPs, their purpose and difficulty/risk involved but like I said, when people come on here seeking validation and not getting it, what results often isn't beneficial to them.
 
This is a classic example of someone having their mind set on something coming on here in the name "of asking for input" when really they are seeking validation, and getting upset when people don't validate it and highlight the flaws in their thinking.

OP will do what they want. What their rant has shown is a lack of understanding of SMPs, their purpose and difficulty/risk involved but like I said, when people come on here seeking validation and not getting it, what results often isn't beneficial to them.

That's not true. While it is true that I really "want" the UZH MSc, I am still unsure if it is the best decision so I am seeking advice IN ORDER to see the flaws in my thinking.

A lack of understanding of SMPs? Everything I said was based on things I either read on SDN or heard directly from the SMP coordinators at the universities. I can give you the email of the professor from Rutgers if you wish to confirm.

Besides that, who has exactly shown flaws in my thinking? The question was very simple, a binary choice, "Should I take A or B?" yet almost everyone is saying take C. Well, great, but that is NOT the question. Yet still, I'm being understanding and considering option C and explaining why it doesn't suit me. I don't care if volunteering will better benefit my application, I've already done the research and saw that the MSc and MBS are most suitable to my interest and therefore I am asking about them and them only. The MSc is useless? not entirely, as Dral pointed out. The SMP is useless? not entirely, as the Professor pointed out. The SMP is risky? I agreed. I don't see any bias in my comments, so please don't throw the blame on me.

Also, that was not a rant. Repeating stupid 3 times was. My response at least makes sense.
 
My response at least makes sense.

Your response makes sense to you because you're set in what you've decided to do. Because other responses don't fit with what you've already made up in your mind, they "don't make sense" to you.

It's basically like you're asking, "Should I get a tattoo of a skull or a dragon on my face?" then not wanting to hear the most rational answer, which is don't freaking get a tattoo on your face.

Doing an SMP with a 3.6 GPA, and spending the tuition/time to get a Masters degree in Switzerland, are both about as smart as getting a face tattoo. But if you are determined to do one - because you've already made up your mind that you aren't interested in any alternatives- then go to Switzerland. At least if you mess up there, it won't ruin your chances of admission the way messing up in an SMP would.

Good luck.
 
That's not true. While it is true that I really "want" the UZH MSc, I am still unsure if it is the best decision so I am seeking advice IN ORDER to see the flaws in my thinking.

A lack of understanding of SMPs? Everything I said was based on things I either read on SDN or heard directly from the SMP coordinators at the universities. I can give you the email of the professor from Rutgers if you wish to confirm.

Besides that, who has exactly shown flaws in my thinking? The question was very simple, a binary choice, "Should I take A or B?" yet almost everyone is saying take C. Well, great, but that is NOT the question. Yet still, I'm being understanding and considering option C and explaining why it doesn't suit me. I don't care if volunteering will better benefit my application, I've already done the research and saw that the MSc and MBS are most suitable to my interest and therefore I am asking about them and them only. The MSc is useless? not entirely, as Dral pointed out. The SMP is useless? not entirely, as the Professor pointed out. The SMP is risky? I agreed. I don't see any bias in my comments, so please don't throw the blame on me.

Also, that was not a rant. Repeating stupid 3 times was. My response at least makes sense.

lol relax man. I was referring to a specific decision within a certain context as being stupid, not that you are stupid yourself. And the way I repeated it was idiomatic, hardly to be taken so seriously.

Anyway, I believe you should do something you are passionate about. No one in their right mind should be passionate about an SMP, if they know what it is. It is explicitly a stepping stone for people with poor GPAs. But your Masters sounds ****ing awesome. If I were you, I'd put all your eggs into the MCAT basket - as that will give you the most success towards admissions - and do something you are passionate about. Then, the next two years you can be happy, not be in serious debt, and do well on the MCAT. If you go the SMP route, you are possibly allowing for failure, going into debt, and won't have a happy life.
 
That's not true. While it is true that I really "want" the UZH MSc, I am still unsure if it is the best decision so I am seeking advice IN ORDER to see the flaws in my thinking.

A lack of understanding of SMPs? Everything I said was based on things I either read on SDN or heard directly from the SMP coordinators at the universities. I can give you the email of the professor from Rutgers if you wish to confirm.

Besides that, who has exactly shown flaws in my thinking? The question was very simple, a binary choice, "Should I take A or B?" yet almost everyone is saying take C. Well, great, but that is NOT the question. Yet still, I'm being understanding and considering option C and explaining why it doesn't suit me. I don't care if volunteering will better benefit my application, I've already done the research and saw that the MSc and MBS are most suitable to my interest and therefore I am asking about them and them only. The MSc is useless? not entirely, as Dral pointed out. The SMP is useless? not entirely, as the Professor pointed out. The SMP is risky? I agreed. I don't see any bias in my comments, so please don't throw the blame on me.

Also, that was not a rant. Repeating stupid 3 times was. My response at least makes sense.

You've basically made and confirmed my point by what the bold says. Both your plans are not great. There are better things to do. You've had multiple people tell you this, from a physician who is involved in admissions to someone who just finished an SMP and knows all about it, to other people. Your "research" you have done has not led you to correct conclusions. If you want to go to Switzerland fine, but if you are doing it to "boost" your app you are looking at it all wrong. Hopefully, an ADCOM and someone who just did an SMP telling you how stupid it is to do an SMP can have some influence on you, but from these posts you have exhibited a level of stubbornness that is probably not to your benefit.
 
Jesus guys lol. I guess there is a general agreement that there are many better options that the ones I am thinking about for my 2 gap years.

But for those completely against the SMP:

Thing is, aren't SMPs made for three purposes?
A) boost low GPA
B) show your ability to handle heavy coursework
C) show your ability to handle medical courses specifically (this is what a Professor from Rutgers told me; that even some--albeit few--non-Rutgers medical schools will be interested in knowing how I did in those medical courses even if I didn't yet finish the SMP by the time I apply).

Perhaps I don't need the first, but isn't a 3.7ish better than 3.63? Having never taken more than 9 courses a year speaks bad to my workload and good record on medical courses is never a bad thing.

So SMPs were not made for the class of applicants I belong to, sure, but I don't see how it won't benefit at all. However, yes I certainly see the massive risk associated: you screw up, you pretty much screw up the whole career path. So in my situation, risk outweighs the benefit imo. I like what you said about the stress too. It's true, SMPs are too stressful for someone who doesn't really NEED them, all the more reason to follow what I'm passionate about and anticipate to be more "fun:" MSc.

For those against both options:

Not that I want to get a job, but do you really think a degree in Physiology can get a "great" job? Especially here in Canada, the land of opportunities, NOT. You'd be astonished to know the number of my classmates from U of Toronto (believe it or not, ranked anywhere from 2 to 25 globally) going to a community college after graduation to find a job. I honestly think think that the BEST job I can get right now, is shelving meds at a pharmacy (oh if I get lucky, because apparently pharmacy assistance legally requires a license here), flipping burgers at McDonalds (I'm not even competitive because others actually have previous relevant experiences), and so on. That's one reason to why I'm dismissing this option.. :/

With regard to research and publications, I feel I have enough to hurt my application because of suggesting a relatively low interest in clinical medicine lol. After a short while I should be having 3-5 publications with many many research projects, conferences, etc.

For something altruistic... Hm. Now for that, touche. But I personally would rather get a MSc than volunteer for 2 years straight. It's just personal preference and professional interest.

Either way, I will be dedicating 3-4 months right now to study the MCAT with absolutely nothing else on my plate (no job, no school, nothing). So I will be improving that hopefully. That's for those suggesting I focus on my stats rather than waste my time with things that won't really help the application.

The red part is so true....

I think if you are okay with doing more school, why not do a DIY post-bacc in Canada where you basically take more UG science classes to boost your GPA? It's cheaper, less time commitment, less risky (competing with undergrads vs premeds), and opens up a lot more doors (Canadian MD with special formulas, PT, etc) than all your other options. Or you can do clinical/hospital volunteering while flipping burgers in McDonald's. That should give you at least 400 hours clinical experience before next cycle. Assuming you get a strong MCAT (90 percentile or above), you should get a couple of IIs next cycle.

By the way, I'm Canadian with <3.5GPA and 37 MCAT, and I got 2 II from USMD out of only 14 schools I've applied to this year. Not URM, no ties, average ECs.
 
The MSc will be really useful for a career outside of medical school/Medicine, but not helpful for applying to med school.

The SMP is an audition for med school. Do well in it (GPA of 3.6+) and there are many MD schools that reward reinvention. But you'll need to ace MCAT as well.

@Goro , others have stated it, but does a 3.63 uGPA really need reinvention? Taking some extra classes to boost it wouldn't hurt (assuming they actually boost it), but doing another degree because it's too low? That just seems silly.


OP: Go to Switzerland. You've said multiple times that it's what you really want to do right now. Will it directly help your stats for med school? No. Will it give you a unique life experience that most applicants won't have that you can talk about? Yes. Go get your masters there, write a thesis, get the publication (which will help your app), and gain some fun life experiences while you can before you jump into med school. Maybe you'll love the program so much you'll end up wanting to do that instead of medicine. If so, great! If you end up realizing it's not what you want to do, then you've got an experience that confirms medicine is the write path for you. Stats are definitely important, but having a cohesive, well-supported story about why you want to be a physician and why you're the best candidate can be just as important. That is especially true when you get to the interview phase. Either way, if you're going to take 2 gap years, then you should have a reason for it and be able to explain how they benefitted you when you do end up applying for med schools.
 
Your response makes sense to you because you're set in what you've decided to do. Because other responses don't fit with what you've already made up in your mind, they "don't make sense" to you.

It's basically like you're asking, "Should I get a tattoo of a skull or a dragon on my face?" then not wanting to hear the most rational answer, which is don't freaking get a tattoo on your face.

Doing an SMP with a 3.6 GPA, and spending the tuition/time to get a Masters degree in Switzerland, are both about as smart as getting a face tattoo. But if you are determined to do one - because you've already made up your mind that you aren't interested in any alternatives- then go to Switzerland. At least if you mess up there, it won't ruin your chances of admission the way messing up in an SMP would.

Good luck.

I was talking about my specific comment with the claims and facts. Assumed its correct because in an exclusively logical argument there is no such thing as bias.
Even if what you're saying is true, it doesn't matter, because I asked about which tattoo to get not whether or not I should get one.

lol relax man. I was referring to a specific decision within a certain context as being stupid, not that you are stupid yourself. And the way I repeated it was idiomatic, hardly to be taken so seriously.

Anyway, I believe you should do something you are passionate about. No one in their right mind should be passionate about an SMP, if they know what it is. It is explicitly a stepping stone for people with poor GPAs. But your Masters sounds ****ing awesome. If I were you, I'd put all your eggs into the MCAT basket - as that will give you the most success towards admissions - and do something you are passionate about. Then, the next two years you can be happy, not be in serious debt, and do well on the MCAT. If you go the SMP route, you are possibly allowing for failure, going into debt, and won't have a happy life.

Hm, sorry for the misunderstanding then. Exactly... I want to go to UZH because of passion, not because of boosting my application (at least that is my conclusion after this long thread). My argument was that if I do well in an SMP, it WILL help my application no matter how little, but that's irrelevant now because I won't be doing it due to the enormous amount of stress and risk.

You've basically made and confirmed my point by what the bold says. Both your plans are not great. There are better things to do. You've had multiple people tell you this, from a physician who is involved in admissions to someone who just finished an SMP and knows all about it, to other people. Your "research" you have done has not led you to correct conclusions. If you want to go to Switzerland fine, but if you are doing it to "boost" your app you are looking at it all wrong. Hopefully, an ADCOM and someone who just did an SMP telling you how stupid it is to do an SMP can have some influence on you, but from these posts you have exhibited a level of stubbornness that is probably not to your benefit.

Again, Switzerland is not meant to boost my app, not really. It's just the better option relative to the SMP, due to risk and stress and lack of passion. My bold point has a key word, it is interest. These options are most suitable to my "interest". Which means, I am NOT interested in more volunteering experiences because I have enough and because I won't enjoy them as much as an MSc. This is not speaking to the degree of benefit I'll get from the MSc vs volunteering, this is talking about interest. So unless the physician is in fact a psychiatrist specialized in "the interests of premed students" then no, they don't know more about my interest than me.

The red part is so true....

I think if you are okay with doing more school, why not do a DIY post-bacc in Canada where you basically take more UG science classes to boost your GPA? It's cheaper, less time commitment, less risky (competing with undergrads vs premeds), and opens up a lot more doors (Canadian MD with special formulas, PT, etc) than all your other options. Or you can do clinical/hospital volunteering while flipping burgers in McDonald's. That should give you at least 400 hours clinical experience before next cycle. Assuming you get a strong MCAT (90 percentile or above), you should get a couple of IIs next cycle.

By the way, I'm Canadian with <3.5GPA and 37 MCAT, and I got 2 II from USMD out of only 14 schools I've applied to this year. Not URM, no ties, average ECs.

Exactly! that's why I've been trying to get a solid MCAT.. because I know that if I have that then my 'okay' GPA should get me at least a couple of IIs. All this fuss is just decoration to the app, nothing more.. two years are gonna die anyway, so I was just thinking of doing something I like..



The reason to why I'm taking 2 years isn't FOR the masters. To re-apply I need a solid MCAT, the only time I can study is this year. So the only time I can apply is June 2016, which means the only time I could possibly be admitted is August 2017. Hence, two years died.. so might as well do something in them.



I think there's just a very big misunderstanding here and that is why this thread is so long. I don't want the MSc to boost my app, at least not anymore, I want it because I am interested in it and because the SMP is clearly a worse option given the risk. I do agree with you, for the most part. For all you talking about hospital volunteering and research and so on, well I already have many of those.. like I said, multiple publications, research projects, conferences, 3 years of physician shadowing, nurse assistance, community hours, undergraduate clubs establishment, contributing to healthcare causes, etc. After all that, I just wanna do something I actually REALLY enjoy.
 
Even if what you're saying is true, it doesn't matter, because I asked about which tattoo to get not whether or not I should get one.

This "retort" proved my point exactly. Those of us who try to give helpful advice on these forums aren't in the business of ignoring bad plans just to tell someone what they want to hear. So the advice to do neither still stands- even if you're not interested in hearing it. Maybe someday later someone else will come along actually looking for advice (not validation), and these posts will help them.

Good luck!
 
The red part is so true....

I think if you are okay with doing more school, why not do a DIY post-bacc in Canada where you basically take more UG science classes to boost your GPA? It's cheaper, less time commitment, less risky (competing with undergrads vs premeds), and opens up a lot more doors (Canadian MD with special formulas, PT, etc) than all your other options. Or you can do clinical/hospital volunteering while flipping burgers in McDonald's. That should give you at least 400 hours clinical experience before next cycle. Assuming you get a strong MCAT (90 percentile or above), you should get a couple of IIs next cycle.

By the way, I'm Canadian with <3.5GPA and 37 MCAT, and I got 2 II from USMD out of only 14 schools I've applied to this year. Not URM, no ties, average ECs.
Jobs are hard to get everywhere with just an undergrad degree in science unless you wanted to be a research associate since OP seems to have had good research experience in undergrad. Even a MSc isn't going to help that issue, you can't do much in science without a phd or professional degree, so I wouldn't take not being able to find a great job as any argument. 2 years of $40k salary > negative tens of thousands of dollars for a worthless SMP program.

OP doesn't even need to do a DIY postbacc, both that and an SMP are completely stupid, he has a 3.63, that is perfectly fine for any school. GPA wise, OP has already shown she/he can cut it in medical school, what really matters now is the MCAT. That's why everyone is telling them that a SMP is worthless (granted they get a decent MCAT) they already believe that they will be able to do well academically, what's the point of trying so hard to ace an SMP and prove what they already believe? That's what everyone is trying to tell the OP, but they don't seem to want to hear that/believe that the SMP really has absolutely nothing to offer them. The only other possible bonus would perhaps be LOR's or finding research, but the OP has good research and there is nothing to clue the need for LOR's (which you could get doing a diy postbacc for a lot cheaper anyway).

If the OP wants to do med school, all they have to do is to make sure they do well on the MCAT (by far the most important factor), keep up volunteering, and then do whatever they want with their time (this is the part that would $$$ and lifewise benefit them the most by working and saving as much money as they can, or fulfilling their travel bug), but there is no reason for more school unless it's for an alternate career.

OP doesn't have to take any of our advice obviously, they can go do an SMP, go to Switzerland, or deal drugs for 2 years, it's their life but they asked for advice and everyone is giving them the truthful best options.
 
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