Harvard or UoP

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UoP. Get done faster since you just want to do general.
 
I would chose Harvard. There are not many people in the world with the opportunity to attend a Harvard professional school. I would love the experience of going to one of the countries oldest and most storied universities that has had some of the most important and influential Americans in history call it home.

If I could get in there, I would go. I am a tradition and history nerd though.
 
Both schools are phenomenal. You will get a premier education at either institution. However, the Harvard name cannot be matched. Even if you open up shop in the most saturated market, your Harvard name will win you patients before they even see you or your clinical abilities. Harvard will also, arguably, give you a better clinical experience. Going to Harvard is not something that should be second guessed. You will be among the best. The friends you will make will help you down the road. Harvard has the highest specialization rate. That being said, your GD standing will make you special among the Harvard crowd.

Both schools are top, but you ought to attend Harvard. Don't look back. Even controlling for price, you cannot not argue this one.
 
I would say UoP if you wanna be a general dentist. You get out in 3 years.
 
Harvard for specializing. UoP for general in 3yrs. There are stronger clinical schools than those two, but specializing is tougher, and you really can't beat the get out jail after three years card.
 
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I turned down Harvard for a less prestigious, though much stronger clinical school. It wasn't an easy decision. I will probably get my MPH at Harvard after dental school, though (11 month program). I also think I definitely would have enjoyed San Francisco far more than Boston. DO NOT choose a school for the name, and don't feel obligated to attend a school b/c of its reputation. This is YOUR decision, not someone else's.

However, cost should be your biggest factor in the decision, then where you will be happiest (in my opinion). I don't think I would have been as happy/fulfilled at HSDM; just not my crowd.
 
TheToothsayer said:
Both schools are phenomenal. You will get a premier education at either institution. However, the Harvard name cannot be matched. Even if you open up shop in the most saturated market, your Harvard name will win you patients before they even see you or your clinical abilities. Harvard will also, arguably, give you a better clinical experience. Going to Harvard is not something that should be second guessed. You will be among the best. The friends you will make will help you down the road. Harvard has the highest specialization rate. That being said, your GD standing will make you special among the Harvard crowd.

Both schools are top, but you ought to attend Harvard. Don't look back. Even controlling for price, you cannot not argue this one.
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actually based on their reputations, UOP is the much stronger clinical school whereas Harvard is known for emphasizing research...
However, with only 35 students at Harvard, you will be able to specialize in whatever you want...whereas at UOP you will likely need to be in the top 10 or at least top 20 to land a competitive specialty...
 
poki said:
actually based on their reputations, UOP is the much stronger clinical school whereas Harvard is known for emphasizing research...
However, with only 35 students at Harvard, you will be able to specialize in whatever you want...whereas at UOP you will likely need to be in the top 10 or at least top 20 to land a competitive specialty...
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I am not sure why people think Harvard emphasizes research so much. Yes, we have a research requirement. However, you can pretty much do anything you want. In terms of clinical experience, you can make what you want of it. While we might not have as many requirements as some other schools, it allows you time to pursue your interests in clinic. There are some students that completed their requirements in the beginning of their 4th year. This allowed them time to focus on what they are interested in or a skill that they would like to develop. If you look at the match rate for HSDM, you will find several students that pursue private practice right after completing the program.

Also, just overall FYI from people I know that graduated from "clinical" schools, you will develop your skills more during the first three months after you graduate than you will in school. Go to the school where you feel most comfortable and factor in the cost of the program.
 
I tend to agree with long horn. People always bring up the research thing. The catch is that how many of those people are speaking from experience as opposed to hear say. I was at the revisit a few weeks ago and YES there is a research requirement. However, you can take that funding and choose a clinically driven project anywhere in the world. As with anything in life it is what you make of it. If you like basic science there's loads of that. If you like global health there's loads opportunities there as well.

Match rates are insane. I don't remember off hand but I think they matched all but one student.

As far as developing your hand skills, there is a 6 week externship which is significantly longer than any of the other schools in Boston. Even then, like long horn said you develop speed etc. after graduation or in a gpr/specialty.

At the end of the day you have to do what is right for you. Just make sure to base your decision in fact as opposed to myth and hear say.
 
UoP is really fast paced though. I know a pretty smart dude that went there and got his butt kicked constantly by the curriculum.
 
I had the same decision as you a couple years ago between Harvard, UOP, and a couple other schools. I chose HSDM for several reasons:

-Although UoP is a great school, Harvard is more prestigious (if that's something important to you)
-It's actually cheaper to go to Harvard than UOP
-You honestly don't know much about dentistry until you actually go to dental school so don't swear off specialization before you start (keep your options open)
-A class of 40 vs a class 150
-The faculty are AMAZING!
-The students are awesome and you get to know everyone
-Many more research opportunities in the dental and medical field
-Saving one year didn't seem to justify closing the door to specialization

Come to Harvard!
 
"-Saving one year didn't seem to justify closing the door to specialization." How does UoP close the door to specialization?
 
People all over the world recognize the Harvard brand. The same cannot be said of University of Pacific (at least in New England).
 
Harvard will not give you ANY clinical skills. You will be a HORRIBLE dentists....Pick Harvard if you want to be a Dean of a school one day/hold leadership positions. Not if you want to be a general dentist....This is the most sincere advice you will receive. Peace!
 
BU2012 said:
I turned down Harvard for a less prestigious, though much stronger clinical school. It wasn't an easy decision. I will probably get my MPH at Harvard after dental school, though (11 month program). I also think I definitely would have enjoyed San Francisco far more than Boston. DO NOT choose a school for the name, and don't feel obligated to attend a school b/c of its reputation. This is YOUR decision, not someone else's.

However, cost should be your biggest factor in the decision, then where you will be happiest (in my opinion). I don't think I would have been as happy/fulfilled at HSDM; just not my crowd.
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👍
 
No one says you'll be a bad general practitioner if you go to Harvard, or have little chance at specializing if you go to UoP.

Dental school is what you make of it.

Personally, I would go to Harvard:

a) It's cheaper.
b) The class is smaller.
c) I hear all the students there are very relaxed/happy.
d) Hey, it's Harvard.

Notice how I put the "Hey, it's Harvard" thing at the very end. Primarily, it's because it seems like it would be a great experience to go there, regardless of its name. It's less expensive and most likely less intense due to the longer curriculum.

Ultimately it's up to you but I don't think you should go to a school just because of its perception of preening its students to do one thing or another. Every school graduates a variety of dentists.
 
GobBluth said:
No one says you'll be a bad general practitioner if you go to Harvard, or have little chance at specializing if you go to UoP.

Dental school is what you make of it.

Personally, I would go to Harvard:

a) It's cheaper.
b) The class is smaller.
c) I hear all the students there are very relaxed/happy.
d) Hey, it's Harvard.

Notice how I put the "Hey, it's Harvard" thing at the very end. Primarily, it's because it seems like it would be a great experience to go there, regardless of its name. It's less expensive and most likely less intense due to the longer curriculum.

Ultimately it's up to you but I don't think you should go to a school just because of its perception of preening its students to do one thing or another. Every school graduates a variety of dentists.
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correct me if im wrong but isnt it true that Harvard students dont even start preclinic until the summer of their 2nd year? that combined with the fact that nearly the entire class pursues a specialty tells me that the curriculum there is catered to students that want to specialize rather than those who want to jump straight into GP private practice after graduation without having to do an AEGD/GPR... whereas UOP with the accelerated 3 year curriculum seems focused on graduating more GPs... sure you will have competent GPs coming out of Harvard and students that specialize coming out of UOP but it is clear that their curriculums are very different...
 
poki said:
correct me if im wrong but isnt it true that Harvard students dont even start preclinic until the summer of their 2nd year? that combined with the fact that nearly the entire class pursues a specialty tells me that the curriculum there is catered to students that want to specialize rather than those who want to jump straight into GP private practice after graduation without having to do an AEGD/GPR... whereas UOP with the accelerated 3 year curriculum seems focused on graduating more GPs... sure you will have competent GPs coming out of Harvard and students that specialize coming out of UOP but it is clear that their curriculums are very different...
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Agreed. I especially agree with the bolded statement above.
 
I think the biggest factor here is location, cost, curriculum, etc. Don't let prestige get in the way, both are great schools. The curricula are different with varying levels of clinical exposure, research, and length. Also, look at price. UoP is private and in the pricy part of town. Cambridge is a little more easy to budget for, but Boston is no cheap place either.
 
abate21 said:
If you were accepted into Harvard and UoP, and want to go into private practice, which school would you choose?
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Both are good schools with two very different curriculum. It's like comparing apples to oranges. You can't really choose between them in that kind of comparison. You have to ask yourself whether you are more research orientated or would like to focus on clinical skills.
 
I think if you are asking that, at least for me, it depends on what you are looking for. My main focus is research, so of course I wanted to go to the number one medical school in the country for research....look more into the stats and what you are looking for. Its more than just your scores, its what you want to become from the experience. I have friends at both, and yes both are amazing schools!! Yet, they are extremely different.
 
Psychbiology said:
I think if you are asking that, at least for me, it depends on what you are looking for. My main focus is research, so of course I wanted to go to the number one medical school in the country for research....look more into the stats and what you are looking for. Its more than just your scores, its what you want to become from the experience. I have friends at both, and yes both are amazing schools!! Yet, they are extremely different.
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diasIItema said:
Hey med school, this thread is almost a year old.
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She's right though. I couldn't think of two better schools for comparing the two opposite poles of extreme on the spectrum of dental schools. UoP advertises its heavy emphasis on clinical general dentistry. Harvard is...Harvard. It attracts so many applicants who ultimately become leaders, researchers, and specialists in dentistry instead of run-of-the-mill general dentists. It's not like if you go to Harvard and intend on being GP that you will be a mediocre GP forever. GPR, AEGD, CE courses, and experience in private practice will catch you up to the proficiency of many GPs.

Forsyth is doing some pretty exciting stuff.

I don't understand why someone would need help differentiating the two schools. I think they rarely come up in the same sentence...
 
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I turned down Harvard for my state school b/c I wanted to pursue GP/liked my state school more. But the Harvard name made it a very long and difficult decision. So the thought of living in San Fran, doing school in 3 years etc. vs. the Harvard name and potential opportunities makes for a difficult decision. That's why someone would need help differentiating the two schools. It's not cut-and-dry once you're put in that situation.
 
abate21 said:
If you were accepted into Harvard and UoP, and want to go into private practice, which school would you choose?
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Simply put, if your focus is to practice general dentistry attend UoP. If you want to specialize and interested in research then attend Harvard.
 
Dentalkid434 said:
Simply put, if your focus is to practice general dentistry attend UoP. If you want to specialize and interested in research then attend Harvard.
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Not to drag up an old thread, but I'm interested in what the response is to this.

What if you aren't into research, but definitely want to specialize (not surgery), and are from the west coast? I'm wondering if it's actually DIFFICULT to specialize out of UoP, or if just not many people choose to do it. Also, does Harvard match many people to their top 1 or 2 choices, or is out just that they will all match somewhere?
 
athomas said:
What if you aren't into research, but definitely want to specialize (not surgery), and are from the west coast? I'm wondering if it's actually DIFFICULT to specialize out of UoP, or if just not many people choose to do it.
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I have heard from a friend whose sister went to UoP that many students go into UoP not wanting to specialize (since it's a 3 year program and all), but that specializing afterward is certainly possible for students who work hard and do well.

Of course, since that's only what I heard, I can't say whether it's that way for sure, but you should ask the UoP people around here. I know that armorshell is an OMS resident who graduated from UoP.
 
if you are dead set on doing specialty dentistry, go to harvard
if you want to be a GP or in private practice, then you need to a place that will cost the least, which is Harvard.

Harvard over UOP unless UOP gives you a massive scholarship that brings down the cost.👍
 
lwen5 said:
if you are dead set on doing specialty dentistry, go to harvard
if you want to be a GP or in private practice, then you need to a place that will cost the least, which is Harvard.

Harvard over UOP unless UOP gives you a massive scholarship that brings down the cost.👍
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you don't take into account the reputation of clinical dentistry? Don't you think a graduate from UoP will be a better GP dentist than a Harvard student? Just asking. Not trying to start a flame war of sort.
 
gn4 said:
you don't take into account the reputation of clinical dentistry? Don't you think a graduate from UoP will be a better GP dentist than a Harvard student? Just asking. Not trying to start a flame war of sort.
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i think the clinic reputation is slightly important, but shouldn't be the sole determining factor especially when the cost difference is huge. Harvard is around $80k cheaper than UOP. Also, not all UOP grads will be more clinically competent than Harvard grads. It is true that Harvard emphasizes research more. However, what's to stop a Harvard DDS student from going on mission trips and aggressively seeking out more patients at Harvard? I've heard that at Harvard you can get as much clinical experience as you would like. It just happens that more students that go there are interested in things like policy/ research (which helps them get to specialize.
 
lwen5 said:
i think the clinic reputation is slightly important, but shouldn't be the sole determining factor especially when the cost difference is huge. Harvard is around $80k cheaper than UOP. Also, not all UOP grads will be more clinically competent than Harvard grads. It is true that Harvard emphasizes research more. However, what's to stop a Harvard DDS student from going on mission trips and aggressively seeking out more patients at Harvard? I've heard that at Harvard you can get as much clinical experience as you would like. It just happens that more students that go there are interested in things like policy/ research (which helps them get to specialize.
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UoP is 1 year shorter, so the UoP grad will have an extra year of earnings added to their career. Isn't that something most people would also take into account from a cost perspective?
 
stomatology said:
UoP is 1 year shorter, so the UoP grad will have an extra year of earnings added to their career. Isn't that something most people would also take into account from a cost perspective?
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While this is true, it doesn't make your monthly repayment any more manageable. Cash flow is king your first few years out of DS in my opinion.
 
Why do so many people think that just because UoP is 3 years, you are going to be so far ahead because you have another year of salary???

Umm hello? If you spend 100k more going to a 3 year school than a 4 year school, and you only make 100K your first year. Let's say you put $1000 a month toward your student loans that first year... you are now 88k+ worse off had you just went to the cheaper school. double those monthly payments... you're still in a worse of situation than if you went elsewhere for cheaper. Simple math people..
 
goffdent said:
Why do so many people think that just because UoP is 3 years, you are going to be so far ahead because you have another year of salary???

Umm hello? If you spend 100k more going to a 3 year school than a 4 year school, and you only make 100K your first year. Let's say you put $1000 a month toward your student loans that first year... you are now 88k+ worse off had you just went to the cheaper school. double those monthly payments... you're still in a worse of situation than if you went elsewhere for cheaper. Simple math people..
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and don't forget to add federal income tax and state income tax. Commiefornia has an income tax of around 10% :laugh:
 
I honestly do not understand the UoP fascination on SDN.
 
Swoops said:
You ever been/interviewed there?
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I interviewed at both and both are clearly incredible problems, but they have different areas of emphasis, so I'm curious what people would do given the hypothetical situation that they got into both.
 
This would be one hell of a choice to make. I'd probably go with UoP in the end.
 
Harvard -> perio -> dean...a lot of perio from Harvard end up as deans for some reason
Harvard -> AEGD/GPR is as good as any other dentist
 
Definitely Harvard, I've never been one for finishing fast. Plus, I would love to see everyone's face when I told them I'm going to Harvard! lol. Don't think they'd believe me.
 
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