Has anyone experienced/witnessed this?

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A colleague called the AMA practice directorate and inquired what a "medical setting" was. Their response that a medical setting was "any time or any place one interacts with an M.D. or is in a center where an M.D. is employed" Thus, if you're calling an MD from your private practice, talking to somone in a psychiatric hospital, counseling center that has an MD on staff, etc., you will not be permitted to call yourself "doctor." Thus, we will always be at a one-down position to the medical profession and we will have MORE trouble distinguishing ourselves from master's level professions
 
Also, even if Dr. and doctor are distinguished, I still consider myself a real "doctor" with a doctorate.

That's an interesting POV to me. My grandfather was a PhD kinesiologist, college professor and dean. He had a doctorate and used the title. But he never said, "I'm a doctor." I think he would have immediately corrected anyone who called him one.

I have no problem with PhD's using the title of doctor. (Even though I did go to a wacky undergrad school where PhD's didn't do so and preferred the title "Professor") I think the AMA needs to get off their high horse about it, if indeed this is what they are doing. But I think it does need to be recognized that in common parlance while Dr. So-and-so could be anyone, "a doctor" is a physician.

Thus, we will always be at a one-down position to the medical profession and we will have MORE trouble distinguishing ourselves from master's level professions

Ah. So in other words, "those darn elitist physicians are interfering with our ability to be elitist!" 😀 PhD's should have the title doctor. They worked for it and master's levels didn't and thus should not. But it just remains so so interesting to me how much they are looked down upon here.
 
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I am a doctor and will continue to use that title. I worked my ass off for a clinical degree (PsyD) and I work in a hospital where my work with patients has direct effect on their clinical care (including medication). So yes, I AM a doctor.
 
To be fair, I think his problem is not with the "title" Dr. since he said previously introducing yourself as "Dr. so and so" is fine. His point seems to be that psychologists should not say "I'm a doctor" if asked what they do.

Hey Ollie,
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I don't think that it's possible, or desirable, to prevent PhD-holding professionals from using the appellative "Dr.", whether in a clinical setting or not. But I definitely think that non-physicians should be legally prohibited from declaring "I am a doctor", especially in a medical setting.

Just think about Chiropractors, for instance. How much damage and misdirection has been caused by chiropractors telling their patients: "I'm a doctor"? This kind of statement misleads patients into believing that their chiropractor has much greater authority than they do and may prevent patients from seeking opinions from physicians, who are after all, just other "doctors".

I actually agree on that point (it seems like everyone does), but 1) I don't know of anyone who actually does this, and 2) That isn't what the actual bill is written to do.

I haven't had any personal experience with psychologists saying "I'm a doctor", but it must happen because at least three psychologists on this thread have done it.

As for the purpose of the bill, to be honest, it's not really clear from the wording. But inasmuch as "psychologist" is a protected title, and "physician" is a protected title, "doctor" should be protected as well, so that any wacky dude with a doctoral degree can't go around claiming that he is "a doctor" and misleading people into believing he's a physician.

On a related note, maybe you guys know the answer to this, do all doctorate-holding professionals get to use the appellative "Dr."? Obviously the answer is no, because lawyers can't use it, but what exactly are the limits? Are we compelled to acknowledge the holder of a Doctorate in Crystal Healing as "Dr. So-and-so"? What about the new batch of allied health doctorates? Should physical therapists go by "Dr. so-and-so"? Does each non-PhD professional doctorate have to be judged independently, or are lawyers and crystal healers special cases?
 
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Soulmancleaver, your post is very arrogant and rude....how dare you even try to compare psychologists and other PhDs to crystal ball healers. If anything, psychologists, who INVENT most of today's treatments and clinical researchers are the REAL doctors and psychiatrists and other MDs are just technicians
 
Soulmancleaver, your post is very arrogant and rude....how dare you even try to compare psychologists and other PhDs to crystal ball healers. If anything, psychologists, who INVENT most of today's treatments and clinical researchers are the REAL doctors and psychiatrists and other MDs are just technicians

Is it just me, or does these kinds of comments not really help our cause here?🙄. Bottom line, no one I know is gonna drop the title Dr. at their hospital, or clinic. This whole issue is over blown, and people have tried to break it down and intellectualize it (not gonna name names) and make it all complicated. I could care less about 1st person or appellative semantic crap.

"Hi I'm Dr. So and So...I'm a psychologist, not a medical Dr" (or your therapist, or your dentist) Done!
I'm not try to perform surgery or any other medical stuff here (and neither would another psychologist), SO WHAT THE HELL IS THE PROBLEM?!!! This was how George Carlin would say it! Except maybe with the "F" word instead. 🙂

My father, who is not involved in the field at all, probably has the best insight into this. When I mentioned this issue to him, he paused and said....
"So...um.....your just another jackass talking about feelings? Geez, at least if you introduced yourself as "Dr". I would give you the benefit of the doubt that you know what you're talking about. I wouldn't believe Mr. Rogers if he told me I was schizo...what the hell."

I think the implication here is self explanatory. Milgram anyone?
 
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On a related note, maybe you guys know the answer to this, do all doctorate-holding professionals get to use the appellative "Dr."? Obviously the answer is no, because lawyers can't use it, but what exactly are the limits? Are we compelled to acknowledge the holder of a Doctorate in Crystal Healing as "Dr. So-and-so"? What about the new patch of allied health doctorates? Should physical therapists go by "Dr. so-and-so"? Does each non-PhD professional doctorate have to be judged independently, or are lawyers and crystal healers special cases?

Your rhetoric is circular as well as a poor attempt to redeem yourself from such asinine statements you previously made. You make your point quite clear. I find it ironic that you choose the psychology forum to prattle on about your latent projections and obvious motivation for becoming a doctor.
 
Your rhetoric is circular as well as a poor attempt to redeem yourself from such asinine statements you previously made. You make your point quite clear. I find it ironic that you choose the psychology forum to prattle on about your latent projections and obvious motivation for becoming a doctor.

Hi, I think you're misreading me. To be honest, I'm not sure about what you're taking offense at. My only point with respect to PhD-holding professionals is that they can't say that they are "doctors", as in "I'm a doctor".

As for other, non-PhD doctoral degrees, I'm not sure which ones are entitled to use an appellative "Dr." in front of their names, as lawyers can't, and I'm not sure if there is any hard-and-fast rule about it.

As for my "latent projections and obvious motivations", I think it may be you that's doing the projecting here. I have nothing against psychologists whatsoever, and I certainly don't want to keep them from using the title "Dr.". The only thing that I've said in this thread is that psychologists can't ethically say "I am a doctor", because "doctor" in that sense means "physician".

I wish, though, that if you were going to call me asinine and tell me that my rhetoric is circular you would at least tell me why, if for nothing else than in the interest of keeping a good dialogue.
 
Soulmancleaver, your post is very arrogant and rude....how dare you even try to compare psychologists and other PhDs to crystal ball healers. If anything, psychologists, who INVENT most of today's treatments and clinical researchers are the REAL doctors and psychiatrists and other MDs are just technicians

I'm arrogant and rude?

To be clear, I never compared crystal healers to psychologists, I compared them to lawyers. In any case, I was talking about a PhD in crystal healing that I saw online, so I am talking about PhD-holding "professionals".

Also, your viewpoint is very distorted, I think. I don't understand what you even mean by "doctor" when you say that psychologists and clinical researchers are "the real doctors". But physicians are, on the whole, consumers of research rather than producers, but that doesn't really have any relevance as to whether they are "doctors" or not, according to any normal definition of the word.
 
Is it just me, or does these kinds of comments not really help our cause here?🙄. Bottom line, no one I know is gonna drop the title Dr. at their hospital, or clinic. This whole issue is over blown, and people have tried to break it down and intellectualize it (not gonna name names) and make it all complicated. I could care less about 1st person or appellative semantic crap.

Hi Erg,
I suppose you mean that I've intellectualized the question, but I think it's a pretty basic and commonsense distinction.

If a non-physician, particularly in a clinical setting, walks around telling people "I am a doctor", then they're misleading people. That's not to say that a psychologist can't say "I'm Dr. so-and-so, your psychologist", because that's not misleading. You can't call that intellectualizing, it legitimately results in the confusion of a patient.
 
If a non-physician, particularly in a clinical setting, walks around telling people "I am a doctor", then they're misleading people. That's not to say that a psychologist can't say "I'm Dr. so-and-so, your psychologist", because that's not misleading. You can't call that intellectualizing, it legitimately results in the confusion of a patient.

I have yet to run into anyone who goes, "I am a doctor.", I think that is a smoke screen by the AMA to combat the DNP (primarily) and anyone else (secondarily) from using the term doctor in any setting. I think it gets dicier with the DNP though...since the everyday duties performed sure seem similar if not identical in the medical setting.
 
Yes its a pretty transparent move. No one says "Hi, I am a Dr." I dont know any physician who does that either so I don't know why that is even a relevant point. The full introduction that is done to every patient, not to mention the different job functions provided by each profession clear up any confusion that may have ever arisen regarding degrees. Like I said, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, I'm your psychologist." I have yet to bump into a patient who thinks..."oh...I thought my therapist Dr.Smith was in charge of my appendectomy.....I mean, he said he was Dr. Smith....:laugh:

It's just a territorial and dominance issue. "My profession has a bigger you know that your profession." However, they cant justify that way obviously so that have to make out that poor old Betty in the geriatric unit is confused about the whole thing. Give me a break......

"My profession has a bigger you know that your profession." Thats all it is. Thats all it is.

I'm just gonna start saying "Hi, I'm doctor of philosophy, how are you? 🙂
 
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Hi, I think you're misreading me. To be honest, I'm not sure about what you're taking offense at. My only point with respect to PhD-holding professionals is that they can't say that they are "doctors", as in "I'm a doctor".

As for other, non-PhD doctoral degrees, I'm not sure which ones are entitled to use an appellative "Dr." in front of their names, as lawyers can't, and I'm not sure if there is any hard-and-fast rule about it.

As for my "latent projections and obvious motivations", I think it may be you that's doing the projecting here. I have nothing against psychologists whatsoever, and I certainly don't want to keep them from using the title "Dr.". The only thing that I've said in this thread is that psychologists can't ethically say "I am a doctor", because "doctor" in that sense means "physician".

I wish, though, that if you were going to call me asinine and tell me that my rhetoric is circular you would at least tell me why, if for nothing else than in the interest of keeping a good dialogue.

I missed the point on this post where a person with a PhD was trying to pass themselves off as a medical doctor. How many posts must you make about this saying the same thing over and over?

Your tone, as T4C and others have pointed out is demeaning.

The problem is really not psychologists, though, it's more like "doctor of nurse practitioner" and "doctors of physical therapy"... these ad hoc professional doctorates were more-or-less cooked up for the simple reason that they legitimize the use of the title "doctor" in a medical setting, which has the effect of increasing the prestige of the holder incommensurately with their actual expertise.

The simple fact is that psychologists are not "doctors" and should never introduce themselves as such. They should introduce themselves as "psychologists", period. You can say, I am Dr. so-and-so, a psychologist... but to simply say "I am a doctor" is misleading and simply unethical.

You show absolutely no respect for these PEOPLE and their degrees by making such audacious claims.

Until you finish your program, I'd suggest that you show some respect for others that have, regardless if they are a doctor or "doctor."
 
I missed the point on this post where a person with a PhD was trying to pass themselves off as a medical doctor. How many posts must you make about this saying the same thing over and over?

Hi, my point is that saying: "I am a doctor", as some people have been doing on this thread, is the same as trying to pass oneself off as a medical doctor... Well, it has the same effect.

I keep saying it over and over again because you keep misconstruing what I'm saying as somehow being an attack on psychologists.

Your tone, as T4C and others have pointed out is demeaning.

I'm sorry if I've come across as demeaning, I haven't meant to.

You show absolutely no respect for these PEOPLE and their degrees by making such audacious claims.

Which claim do you think is audacious? The claim that doctor of nurse practitioner is a degree designed to increase the prestige of nurse practitioners? It's nothing against nurse practitioners to say that they aren't physicians...

Until you finish your program, I'd suggest that you show some respect for others that have, regardless if they are a doctor or "doctor."

I don't think that it's demeaning to say that non-physicians aren't doctors in the sense that is understood when somebody says "I'm a doctor". This entire thread is about the usage of the word "doctor". To say that someone isn't "a doctor", even though they may have the title "doctor" isn't demeaning, it's simply a matter of understanding correct usage of the word.
 
Yes its a pretty transparent move. No one says "Hi, I am a Dr." I dont know any physician who does that either so I don't know why that is even a relevant point.

Hey, you're right that it doesn't come up in real life. The only reason I brought it up in this thread was that some indignant psychologist came on and claimed that he was a doctor. Here's that post:

I am concerned because I spent many years of my life working towards a doctorate. I do not appreciate having someone tell me that suddenly I'm not a doctor. I am proud of my title and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Actually, it's this kind of usage that's causing the problem. You are not "a doctor", you have a doctorate. A person with a doctorate is not called "a doctor". You have the appellative "doctor" in front of your name, but you're not "a doctor".

If it helps clear things up, priests have the appellative "father" in front of their names, but that doesn't mean that a priest is "a father". You wouldn't say "I was talking to a father the other day", you would say "I was talking to a priest the other day".

In the context of a thread about the usage of the word "doctor", I don't think I'm out of line in telling someone that their usage of the word is wrong.

It's just a territorial and dominance issue. "My profession has a bigger you know that your profession." However, they cant justify that way obviously so that have to make out that poor old Betty in the geriatric unit is confused about the whole thing. Give me a break......

To be honest, I sometimes think that you may be attributing a position to me that I don't hold. I've never said that psychologists, or any other PhD-holding profession, can't go by "Dr. so-and-so", all I've said is that it's wrong to say that this usage is the same as saying "I am so-and-so and I am a doctor".

It's not about poor old Betty getting confused is the geriatric ward either, it's simply incorrect usage. Having a PhD doesn't make you "a doctor", anymore than being a priest makes you "a father".
 
:laugh:....You're not seeing the forest for the trees, Soluman. Don't make the underlying issue one of semantics...its obviously not about that. I'm positive the AMA has bigger things to worry about than the semantics of terms....thats not their motivation here. I'm looking at the bigger picture here, and the underlying issue. I generally dont take things at face value. Think bigger.
 
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I have yet to run into anyone who goes, "I am a doctor.", I think that is a smoke screen by the AMA to combat the DNP (primarily) and anyone else (secondarily) from using the term doctor in any setting. I think it gets dicier with the DNP though...since the everyday duties performed sure seem similar if not identical in the medical setting.

I've met quite of few non-physicians who say "I am a doctor". Mostly they're chiropractors or homeopaths, but at least three people in this very thread have said that they were doctors as well... I know this isn't a clinical situation, but it does seem a bit incorrect in any case.

I agree with you that this legislation is probably mostly aimed at DNPs. I don't have much to say about the politics of that issue, which I think hinge more on the use of the word "doctor" as an appellative.
 
:laugh:....You're not seeing the forest for the trees, Soluman. Don't make the underlying issue one of semantics...its obviously not about that. I'm positive the AMA has bigger things to worry about than the semantics of terms....thats not their motivation here. I'm looking at the bigger picture here, and the underlying issue. I generally dont take things at face value. Think bigger.

Hi Erg,
There is obviously an agenda behind this AMA bill, I haven't really been talking about the AMA bill, though. I've just been commenting on all the angry people declaring that they are doctors no matter what the AMA says. I think that this kind of rhetoric is exactly the type of thing that is likely pissing off the AMA, and it's incorrect at that. It's just a little ironic that in a thread about the usage of the word "doctor", so many people are misusing the word.

As for the AMA bill, I've already said that I don't really understand what its intent is with respect to the word "doctor", and I don't understand its motivation with respect to "resident" and "intern". It seems rather misguided, overall.
 
I have yet to run into anyone who goes, "I am a doctor.", I think that is a smoke screen by the AMA to combat the DNP (primarily) and anyone else (secondarily) from using the term doctor in any setting. I think it gets dicier with the DNP though...since the everyday duties performed sure seem similar if not identical in the medical setting.

Yeah, I think this is the crux of the issue. It is a point of contention regarding connotation versus denotation. Although well meaning and appropriate, I would not necessarily read into it as a back-handed way of swatting down psychologists. That the AMA has bigger fish to fry is true - not that psychologists aren't important. But outside psychiatry I have not experienced physicians to have any issue with doctorally-trained psychologists using the term "doctor". As far as "duties seeming similar if not identical..." you have hit the proverbial nail on the calavarium. I'll not hijack this thread by prevaricating on this issue.

Semantics, as has been pointed out, rules here. Let's say you wake up in the hospital and have no memory of how you got there. A kind person explains you had a car accident, and your <insert injury> is being treated. When asked who the person is, he/she responds "Dr. Smith". No psychologist I have ever met would be so self-absorbed as to not understand why the patient in question might be interested in whether it was a medical, nursing or psychological doctorate. No physician/specialist I know would fail to clarify his/her role in the patient's treatement. Unfortunately, this is an exception and not the rule. Thus admistrivial excrement like Resolution 303is born. Of course it's not clear. Resolutions rarely are. The onus is then on defendants to prove they are not in "violation".

I earned a PsyD and recently and MD. During medical school I was addressed as "Doctor" by attending physicians and residents in the hospital, by those who knew of my degree. I never felt the MDs were out to belittle the psychologists.

Of course doctorally trained psychologists should have the title "doctor". Of course they should also know that in certain narrow contexts, self-reference as a "doctor" will carry a mistaken connotation to lay public. So follow your ethics, clarify with the plodding bureaucracy of AMA and continue to do the work that truly demonstates your merit of the term. End of rant.
 
Pterion....very well said.

I know the DNP vs. Physician debates have been heated (I've read most of them), and I can see why the AMA is thinking in this way...it is just heavy-handed, though not moreso than some of the other associations. Can't we all just get along?!!! 😀
 
Is there a particular subforum where DNP vs. physician discussion is going on? I'd like to read it, but wouldn't know where to begin!

Edit: N/M, found it in the most obvious place. 😀 Reading now!
 
This was a great post, Pterion. I agree with you.

But outside psychiatry I have not experienced physicians to have any issue with doctorally-trained psychologists using the term "doctor".

I'm saddened by the thought that you have experienced this within psychiatry. 🙁
 
A couple points:

1) soulmanculver is simply wrong when he says the noun "doctor" does not refer to phds. Aside from that point not even making grammatical sense, a simple glance at any dictionary or encyclopedia will show that doctor used as a noun can refer to a phd http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/doctor.

2) lawyers are allowed to use the title doctor if they so choose, however, virtually no lawyers do this. Since the doctorate is a relatively recent degree for law school graduates its possible that in the future it will become more common.

Anecdotally, I find that the better the college the less likely professors are to refer to themselves as doctors. "Professor" seems to be the title of choice for most. Its generally in the more crappy colleges where professors seem to call themselves "doctor"
 
I'm saddened by the thought that you have experienced this within psychiatry. 🙁

I feel compelled to say that this was not meant as an attempt to belittle psychiatrists. I can say that my own view of psychiatry was dramatically altered for the positive after working on the psychiatry side of things in medical school. To clarify: the state in which I trained continues to rumble with the impending threat of psychologists seeking prescription privileges - an issue of much contention on both sides. What better reason for both sides to draw lines in the sand regarding self-reference and title?

T4C: I wish we (associations) could all get along. Or at least be civil. Who showed that the larger group the lower its functional intelligence? My psych theory memory is unfortunately fading...😉 I am a member of both APA and the AMA out of professional obligation. I am not personally a fan of either.
 
I am a member of both APA and the AMA out of professional obligation. I am not personally a fan of either.

I am a member of a couple smaller associations, as I feel like the APA does not have clinical psychologist's best interests in mind. With the insurance crisis (it is a crisis for anyone paying attention) going on, you'd think the APA, AMA, ANA, etc would work TOGETHER to protect our greater interest, and not in-fight amongst specialties and threaten everyone's ability to make a living.
 
ok to bring this back to the originally point- (the bill)- taking random guesses here, when do you think this will get passed if it even DOES?
 
ok to bring this back to the originally point- (the bill)- taking random guesses here, when do you think this will get passed if it even DOES?

I just found this:

"The American Medical Association (AMA) will vote on the following two policies [#303 and 214] at their upcoming national meeting (occurring June 14-18, 2008) in Chicago."

I lost the link, but it was posted by the Iowa Pharmacy Association.
 
well, even if they vote for it to pass- that doesn't mean it goes into effect, correct? It has to pass some other higher authority?

Hmm, I live in Chicago....of course the AMA is located here, forgot that.
 
well, even if they vote for it to pass- that doesn't mean it goes into effect, correct? It has to pass some other higher authority?

As a professional organization they have no legal authority to enact laws*, though they can often be brought in to 'consult'/'advise' the law makers. In general they do this directly or through a lobbying group that sets up meetings.

*This reminded me of School House Rock's "How A Bill Becomes A Law"....which is how I learned how our gov't works....doesn't work. 😀
 
^LOL- oh yes, I remember that!

Between this and RxP (plus the multitudes with insurance, etc), psychologists have a lot of bills going around that can affect us- largely.
 
And if you're curious about the historical usage of the term doctor, which as many have noted was previously limited to Ph.D.s until it was appropriated by MDs, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr.

Exactly. Historically, PhDs ("doctor"/"doctorate") were awarded to a person who had made great contributions to a field & was considered an expert. The title/award/honor was given by existing doctors in the field. The "doctor" title was an academic/scholarly term LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before physicians adopted it.

Considering that, how about psychologists start calling themselves "physicians"? Then after people are completely used to it, we swoop in & try to pass a law that bans all other professions from calling themselves that. (😉<-- I'm being completely sarcastic here...just trying to make a point.)
 
This Resolution did not pass from what it looks like.

The following link explains a bit about what they did decide on:
http://www.apapractice.org/apo/in_the_news/apa_contests_proposed.html#
 
Good find.

http://www.apapractice.org/apo/in_the_news/apa_contests_proposed.html#

June 18, 2008&#8212;The American Psychological Association sent a letter on June 12 to the principal policy-making body of the American Medical Association (AMA) strongly opposing a proposed resolution that the AMA House of Delegates will consider during its annual meeting this month. The AMA resolution [Microsoft Word document, 28.5 KB] supported restricting the use of "doctor," "resident" and "residency" in medical settings to physicians, dentists and podiatrists.

The APA's letter from President Alan Kazdin, PhD, and Chief Executive Officer Norman Anderson, PhD, discussed psychologists' long history of using the term "doctor" in medical settings and cautioned that applying the restrictions called for in the resolution would confuse patients. The full text of the APA letter is available at the end of this article.

The AMA House did not adopt the proposed resolution. Instead, during their meeting, which concluded today, the delegates adopted a substitute resolution calling on the AMA to: 1) advocate that professionals in a clinical health care setting clearly and accurately identify to patients their qualifications and degree(s) attained and develop model state legislation; and, 2) support state legislation that would make it a felony to misrepresent oneself as a physician. The AMA committee considering the resolution recognized that any individual who has received a terminal degree in his or her area of study has the right to be called "doctor."
 
Non-Problem solved 😀
 
2) ....support state legislation that would make it a felony to misrepresent oneself as a physician...

I'll need to look this up, but I think it already is. At least functionally under "practicing <licensed clinical expertise> without a license". True for physicians and psychologists. If they want to make it a felony to just call oneself a physician, I am afraid few non-physicians will care enough for it to go anywhere.

Glad 303 died. What would Dr. Dre have done?
 
I have a question somewhat related to this.

When do clinical psychologists get the "doctor" title? I've been told that now that I've successfully defended my dissertation that I can use this title. However, because I have not completed my internship I do not have my degree. I was told I can use Dr. but I can't refer to myself as a psychologist. This is by 2 separate PhD psychologists.

Thoughts?
 
Glad 303 died. What would Dr. Dre have done?

LMAO

Man...the ramifications of that proposal extend far beyond our little world don't they.
 
i believe "D." is after you officially graduate. and "psychologist' is after you pass licensing
 
When do clinical psychologists get the "doctor" title? I've been told that now that I've successfully defended my dissertation that I can use this title. However, because I have not completed my internship I do not have my degree. I was told I can use Dr. but I can't refer to myself as a psychologist. This is by 2 separate PhD psychologists.

You can be called a "doctor" after you get your doctorate, so when you graduate, you are a doctor. However, you can only use "psychologist" after getting licensed as a psychologist. All states have post-doctoral supervised hours, courses, and/or exams as requirements to get licensed AFTER you receive your doctorate.
 
You can be called a "doctor" after you get your doctorate, so when you graduate, you are a doctor. However, you can only use "psychologist" after getting licensed as a psychologist. All states have post-doctoral supervised hours, courses, and/or exams as requirements to get licensed AFTER you receive your doctorate.

Yup.....as for internship, I'm 95% sure that you only get your degree conferred AFTER internship, as that is a req. to graduate (at least at all of the program I know).
 
That's what I thought. The internship is required for my degree and I won't graduate until June 2009. So no treading on the MD turf for now... 😀
 
Legally, the term "doctor" is not regulated, therefore, anyone can use the term, even if they don't hold a doctorate. Ethically, however, it is generally acceptable to use the term "doctor" as long as the individual received the degree from an accredited institution. Certain professions have restrictions regarding the usage of the term doctor. For example, the Behavioral Health Board in Indiana requires licensed practitioners under its authority to only use the term doctor if the doctoral degree was granted from a state recognized institution. In a sense, trumping the Dr. of Crystal Healing degrees.

Interesting article: http://www.associatepublisher.com/e/d/do/doctor_(title).htm

I think it is important to understand what the term "doctor" means both explicitly and implicitly. Explicitly, doctor refers to someone who has received a doctorate degree, either an academic PhD or a professional doctorate (i.e. MD, PsyD, PharmD, etc.). Implicitly, however, when one refers to themselves as "doctor", the average person will assume that person is a medical doctor. It is important to use the title appropriately, and legally, most states will require an individual to have a doctorate degree in order to use the term. However, realizing that most people automatically assume "doctors" are medical doctors, it is important to use the term with caution. Whether this is correct or not doesn't matter. PhD's are the original "doctors" but the term has transcended into being generically attached to MD's. So if someone yells, "Is there a doctor on the plane?" and you are a PhD, you should not respond, even though you are in fact a doctor, as we know the person is actually referring to a physician. Additionally, if you are a nurse with a PhD, you probably shouldn't go around a hospital calling yourself "doctor"; why, because people will assume you are a medical doctor. We can argue what is accurate all day, but in the end, it is really about what the perception of the term is, whether that perception is correct or incorrect. If the public assumes that the term “doctor” is = to “physician” than it is important to use the term conservatively in order to not unintentionally deceive the individual. We have to consider the setting we are working in. When I have a PhD, and am referred to as doctor, if I walk into a hospital and introduce myself as “doctor” it will be assumed I am a physician. Similarly, if someone asks me what I do and I state ,“I am a doctor”, while this might be technically correct, it will be assumed I am a medical doctor. Consider the perception of the term and use it correctly.

There are other terms that have similar conflicts. For example, the term “therapist” denotes many different professionals. (i.e. physical therapist, psychotherapist, speech therapist, etc.); however, therapist has (like doctor) been generically applied to psychotherapists. If one is a physical therapist and states, “I am a therapist” the average person will probably assume the individual is a psychotherapist. Therefore, the term should be used with caution, as it can refer to many different professionals, but has been generically applied to a particular profession.
 
It's always been my understanding that using "Dr" before you complete both dissertation and internship is wrong.

However, several fellow interns at my site referred to themselves as "Dr" once they'd defended. It always bothered me that they did this, but whatever...in the end I'm not sure most of our patients much cared what we called ourselves.🙄 I always just referred to myself by my first name. Now that I have the "Dr" title I sometimes use it, but mostly I still use my first name.
 
In regard to psych internship and being called Dr, that is definitely a no-no. I think for most people the formality of it all quickly wears off, though I guess some people get caught up in it.

I'm in an academic medical setting and the general rule of thumb on our unit is that in front of patients we use formal titles, and otherwise it is personal preference. I have found few if any issue with people getting caught up with titles, if anything the doctoral level people seem to prefer being called by their 1st names.
 
I know the original discussion for this thread is old, but I must point out that I have never, ever, ever encountered a psychologist who has tried to pass his or herself off as a medical doctor. In fact, I have never heard a doctor of any discipline respond the the question: "What do you do for a living?" by simply saying "I'm a doctor." The response is almost always, I'm a dentist, or an internist, or a surgeon, or a gynecologist, or a podiatrist, or a psychiatrist, or a psychologist. This move never had anything to do with confusion of titles. It had to do with blatant arrogance and foolishness. OK. That is all.
 
I agree with O Gurl. It is really scary that some people on here think the AMA was trying to do a public service by restricting the use of the title "doctor." Our profession is already dying a quick death from encroachment of master's level practitioners and some of you want ot further kill it by capitulating to this insane bill telling us where and when we can call ourselves "doctor."
 
Couldn't agree more. It is time for our field to finally nail down an identity and develop a backbone! On the topic of master's level encroachments, check out my thread "Independent Practice for LPAs?" That issue is on-going here in Texas.
 
I agree with O Gurl. It is really scary that some people on here think the AMA was trying to do a public service by restricting the use of the title "doctor." Our profession is already dying a quick death from encroachment of master's level practitioners and some of you want ot further kill it by capitulating to this insane bill telling us where and when we can call ourselves "doctor."

As has already been pointed out several times by T4C and Pterion, the bill almost definitely arose out of the DNP debate, which, with the fire behind it, caused the AMA to throw a haymaker without thinking the ramifications through. I don't think this was a swing at psychologists.
 
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