Has Anyone Shadowed??

[porscheman]

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Hello. I contacted a neurosurgeon the other day to ask if he is willing to let me shadow him and he responded today by saying that he is. I'm really excited, and yet I have no idea what shadowing really is. Is it for a few hours or a weekend or what? He did say I could see surgery, but how does that work? Do I stand right next to the operating table? I hate to admit it, but I might not be used to seeing all that blood. And especially with brain surgery they use that saw to get through the skull. How can I stand to watch that? Anyone who knows what shadowing is like or has watched surgery up close please help me out. Tell me if the surgery is shocking or if one gets used to it after afew minutes. Thanks a lot!

 

[shahalam]

When I observed surgery, I usually stayed a foot or two back from the operation and watched the monitor on top. Before you go to observe the surgery, here is the most IMPORTANT thing: eat a good breakfast. Otherwise, you might pass out and look like a doofball in front of the surgeon while the nurses make fun of you while they are reviving you. 😉

 

[JimiThing]

I've watched a few surgeries, mostly ortho. They usually had me stand on a platform placed at the end of the table, right by the patients head. I suspect the neuro surgeon has dibs on this spot though.

 

[synapse lapse]

You just go and watch him whenever you want and he'll let you. He will instruct you of the OR protocol to follow, and will inform you of what areas are sterile and which aren't. I did a summer preceptorship in Neurosurgery during the SMEP program in 2003, it was great. I got to scrub in and help suction and irrigate. BTW, I am not sure about every surgery, but in all the surgeries I saw they didn't use a big vibrating power saw to cut through the skull like you imagine they do ?(and like they do on the cadavers). I imagine this would cause too much vibration, but I am not claiming this as I don't know. Perhaps they use them on some surgeries. On the ones I saw they cut the scalp and pull it back, then drilled holes in the skull. They fed through a wire with cutting teeth on it through 2 holes and saw from inside out back and forth until through. I imagine there are different protocols though. Anyhow, you'll have a great time, maybe if your lucky you'll get to scrub in too!

 

[SteelEyes]

You just go and watch him whenever you want and he'll let you. He will instruct you of the OR protocol to follow, and will inform you of what areas are sterile and which aren't. I did a summer preceptorship in Neurosurgery during the SMEP program in 2003, it was great. I got to scrub in and help suction and irrigate. BTW, I am not sure about every surgery, but in all the surgeries I saw they didn't use a big vibrating power saw to cut through the skull like you imagine they do ?(and like they do on the cadavers). I imagine this would cause too much vibration, but I am not claiming this as I don't know. Perhaps they use them on some surgeries. On the ones I saw they cut the scalp and pull it back, then drilled holes in the skull. They fed through a wire with cutting teeth on it through 2 holes and saw from inside out back and forth until through. I imagine there are different protocols though. Anyhow, you'll have a great time, maybe if your lucky you'll get to scrub in too!

In my opinion, premeds should not be scrubbing in to any surgery. There's enough time for that in medical school and beyond.

 

[Mutt]

The four surgeons I know and have shadowed are cordial but whatever you do, don't try and be best friends or ask tons of questions. Do try and maintain a level of professionalism and maturity. I'm not trying to be an a**, just a suggestion coming from experience. Read up on some basic neuro anatomy too, and if you get any forewarning as to what sort of surgery you will be seeing (ask him/her beforehand) do some deeper reading about the anatomy of that area. You'll not only get a deeper appreciation, but you'll be able to ask more impressive questions.

Lastly, if you're no good with the site of blood, and want to be able to withstand it, you might want to work on it by visiting ogrish.com or some other site with nasty/gruesome pictures. If it helps, just keep in mind that there is no other way to fix the person on the table than cutting them open.

 

[porscheman]

The four surgeons I know and have shadowed are cordial but whatever you do, don't try and be best friends or ask tons of questions. Do try and maintain a level of professionalism and maturity. I'm not trying to be an a**, just a suggestion coming from experience. Read up on some basic neuro anatomy too, and if you get any forewarning as to what sort of surgery you will be seeing (ask him/her beforehand) do some deeper reading about the anatomy of that area. You'll not only get a deeper appreciation, but you'll be able to ask more impressive questions.

Lastly, if you're no good with the site of blood, and want to be able to withstand it, you might want to work on it by visiting ogrish.com or some other site with nasty/gruesome pictures. If it helps, just keep in mind that there is no other way to fix the person on the table than cutting them open.

thanks a lot...that's really helpful. I will follow those suggestions!

 

[riceman04]

Hello. I contacted a neurosurgeon the other day to ask if he is willing to let me shadow him and he responded today by saying that he is. I'm really excited, and yet I have no idea what shadowing really is. Is it for a few hours or a weekend or what? He did say I could see surgery, but how does that work? Do I stand right next to the operating table? I hate to admit it, but I might not be used to seeing all that blood. And especially with brain surgery they use that saw to get through the skull. How can I stand to watch that? Anyone who knows what shadowing is like or has watched surgery up close please help me out. Tell me if the surgery is shocking or if one gets used to it after afew minutes. Thanks a lot!

I also shadowed a surgeon (orthopaedic) through the SMEP in 2003. After learning scrub up procedures you are actually allowed to participate, under some type of supervision, in the OR. But for some reason, during my last surgery, both the charge nurse and physician let me with the patient while I was irrigating the surgical wound. It was kind of weird being in there by myself.
I had alot of fun, especially with waking up at 4:00 so that I could get to the hospital to prep for morning surgeries. Oh soooooooo fun!!!!!

 

[americanangel]

A few weeks ago I shadowed an OB/GYN and saw a number of surgical procedures including a hysterectomy. I was allowed to be in the OR but I wasn't allowed to scrub! When I shadowed, it was much more casual then a lot of other people's experiences. The doc had a great relationship with our school, so he has had countless pre-meds shadow him. He was easy to talk to and his residents were some of the nicest people I've meet. Anyway, I'm going back to shadow him again in the summer! Have a great time shadowing!!!

 

[porscheman]

Hey hey...thanks for those great experiences. I'm beginning to feel more comfortable about it.

A number of people have sent me private messages asking how I asked the doctor to shadow. My interest is neurosurgery so I looked up Castle Connolly's list of America's Best Doctors in neurosurgery (you have to register) and emailed the ones with gold stars by their name- which means that they are internationally renown. The email said something like "I was referred to you because you are one of the foremost neurological surgeons/teachers/public speakers. I am an honors student who has been passionate about the field for a few years and have been involved with associated research. Would you please tell me what your quality of life is like and how possible it is to balance those different aspects of medicine? Also, I am looking to shadow a physician who is one of the best. It's important to aim high, right? So, if you are willing to have me shadow, or can suggest some colleagues who are, I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much for your time. "

It turned out that this famous prof is friends with others on the Connolly list and they each received my email before he asked them. They were impressed with my initiative and I have shadowing invites at three top five schools!! So my advice is to just be yourself but also be a little pushy. These guys are the best in the world at what they do, but instead of signing autographs they allow shadowers. Seize the opportunity because it's your life and they're not going to come to you!! Good luck everyone and may all of you get spots with the very best!!!

 

[g3pro]

^^ lame.

 

[45408]

^^ lame.

why, because he gets to shadow doctors? you should be all for that

 

[pratik7]

odds are that you are not going to see brain surgery. It will prob be some kind of spinal fusion. They are much more common than brain surgery/cranies. It will a better experience with spine cause the field will be bigger and more visible.

The hardest part about shadowing a neurosurg is the length of the procedure(often 3-5 hours) and the smell of burning bone. It depends on the prodedure, but neurosug cases are ususally not that bloody.

 

[byeh2004]

what was the overall process of getting into your shadowing with the surgeon?

My area sucks, every hospital around a 20-30 mile radius has some liability against students watching surgeries or just being able to walk around with a doctor in the hospital

 

[nicholonious]

Hello. I contacted a neurosurgeon the other day to ask if he is willing to let me shadow him and he responded today by saying that he is. I'm really excited, and yet I have no idea what shadowing really is. Is it for a few hours or a weekend or what? He did say I could see surgery, but how does that work? Do I stand right next to the operating table? I hate to admit it, but I might not be used to seeing all that blood. And especially with brain surgery they use that saw to get through the skull. How can I stand to watch that? Anyone who knows what shadowing is like or has watched surgery up close please help me out. Tell me if the surgery is shocking or if one gets used to it after afew minutes. Thanks a lot!

Porscheman, glad to hear that you've been allowed to shadow. Everyone so far has given great advice.

Most of the area must be sterile, do not touch anything (tools, tables, machines, etc.) They'll have to get this yellow film to cover the contaminated area...it sucks, trust me, I did it before.

The duration of shadowing is mainly up to the surgeon (resident) or attending (higher up in the totem pole). Usually it can last half a day to a day, or maybe once a week for around a month duration? Again, this entirely depends on the surgeon.

They might have stools that can stack up. We had this and it allowed me to hover over the table and see what was going on. Most operations I viewed were in the general abdominal area. If its the head, you may or may not get a clear view of what's going on (I hope you're tall.)

If you get freaked out by the saw, then stand clear of the OR during that part of the procedure. You can easily wait outside the room, read a book, and then go back when it looks clear.



As for your comment on people asking how to shadow: I have made somewhat of a template that people can use to formally ask residents/attendings/etc. if you'd like to shadow. If anyones interested, I can either post the prompt on this topic or email it to them.

Also, if anyone wants a general idea of what its like to shadow, then I have a journal describing my experiences when I shadowed. It might be helpful.

My email is: [email protected] if interested.

Have fun shadowing! (ps. take 3x5 notecards to write down what you see)

 

[g3pro]

why, because he gets to shadow doctors? you should be all for that

Too many trolls on the forum. 0+ posts, registered this month, emailed some top surgeons and professors at medical schools, etc. Not likely.

 

[Sophie]

Congrats on getting to shadow, porscheman. I didn't shadow a surgeon, but I can tell you a little about my shadowing experience.

I chose a Family Practitioner because I wanted to see a little of everything. I went through a program at my school that matched students up to doctors who had already agreed to have a student come shadow them. I was pretty nervous before going in the first time, because I had no idea what to expect, but within the first hour I was completely at ease. The doctor let me go in with him to see each patient. For the first few patients I just stood to the side and listened and watched, but after a while he let me listen to the patients' lungs or hearts, look in their ears, and once even administer local anesthesia while he gave a diabetic with arthritis shots in his knees. I also got to see suturing, touch a fatty growth on a man's forehead, and be with an old woman who came in with an arrhythmia while she waited for the paramedics to come take her to the ED and a nurse put an IV in her.

Besides talking to the patients, the best part was how the doctor was always teaching me as he went. While we were in with the patient he would explain why he was listening to the lungs, for instance, why he asked the questions he did, and what the symptoms meant. Then, after each patient left we went back to his office and he pulled out books to show me the systems that were involved in that patient's case, explained everything more in depth, and answered all of my questions. He loved questions. He also taught me how to write prescriptions (ie what all those symbols mean), some of the acronyms they teach you in med school, and how to take a history.

Unfortunately due to my school schedule I was only able to go one afternoon every two weeks, but he said I could go as often as I liked. I ended up shadowing him for 7 months, and am going to start shadowing him again in a couple weeks.

Shadowing is so amazing. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time. 😀

 

[SteelEyes]

I find it interesting so many people choose to "shadow" in such lucrative, but highly specialized fields of surgery. Surgery is very cool, don't get me wrong as I matched in a surgical subspecialty, but keep in mind it's a very limited picture of medicine as a whole. If you are interested in surgery, I would suggest to see if you can see any pre-op/post-op patients in clinic, especially if you see their surgery.
I think an internist or a FP would be great to shadow for a broad scope of practice picture, as one poster already mentioned. I think the point of shadowing is find out if medicine is right for you and to see how docs work on a daily basis. Ideally one should see medicine, surgery and hopefully some political, academic, or administrative duties (even if much less interesting than surgery). Try to shadow in an outpatient clinic and inpatient hospital patients.
Also keep in mind your goal should be to observe and learn some big picture concepts. Don't get too stressed about the details, as you'll learn them in medical school. Ask questions and see if you can see yourself doing this for 30-40 years.
It's funny how once you're a med student the whole idea of "shadowing" sounds so boring. As a student, I would always hate when I was in a situation that involved more "shadowing" and less "doing". But enjoy it for what it is at this point, exposure to a large unknown realm. Best of luck!

 

[philic1013]

If anyones interested, I can either post the prompt on this topic or email it to them.

Also, if anyone wants a general idea of what its like to shadow, then I have a journal describing my experiences when I shadowed. It might be helpful.

My email is: [email protected] if interested.[/B]

Have fun shadowing! (ps. take 3x5 notecards to write down what you see)

Most of us probably are interested. Can you post a link to the journal/letter template here?

 

[nicholonious]

Most of us probably are interested. Can you post a link to the journal/letter template here?

A few have asked via email. This is my advice, so its not the "right" way to do it, rather, its "a" way to go about asking to shadow. I'll put it on here so most can access it:


An approach to shadowing a doctor:

1. Find out who you want to shadow
2. Figure out what they actually do and if its something that would interest you
3. Look up their work: research, journal publishing, history, involvement in medicine (are they in any organizations, clubs, projects?)
4. Create a formal description of yourself (a few paragraphs, it can include such things as GPA, major, internship experience, lab experience, extracurricular activities, particular interests in medicine and health care, goals for the future.)
5. Email the desired doctor and write a short request asking if you may shadow them:

Dear Dr. X,

I am a pre-med student that would like to know more about your given field (insert field that they work in.) Would you be willing to shadow me for a day? Here is a brief description of myself:

Thank you for your time and consideration.



Best regards,
Student

- Here’s what my email looked like:

Hi Steph,

I want to thank you so much for giving me this opportunity given your busy schedule. As you requested, I have included a brief description of my experience as well as my future plans.

• Bachelor of Science in Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavior (Graduation June 2004)
• Clinical Research Associate at UCDMC in the emergency department during 2002.
• Research Assistant in UC Davis Genetics lab during 2003.
• In preparation for the Medical School application process, I am currently studying for the April 16, 2005, MCAT. I will apply to approximately 15 med schools beginning this June. I have five Letters of Recommendation from my UCD professors. I will also be preparing for the future interview by the health committee of college.
• I have a strong interest in surgery. My experience is limited to a surgical lab on animals for my major, some observation in the trauma OR, and a fond interest in reading medical narratives focusing on surgeons and the surgical field. Although it is still early, I would like to get more experience in this fast growing profession.

I have also included my resume. Please let me know if there’s anything else you’d like to know.



Best regards,
Nicholas