Hate medical school

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Eye-eye said:
Agree with the advice, except that the steps are easier than the MCAT. Couldn't disagree more. But of course, people are different.
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I'm old! Took it in '03. So maybe the MCAT has become useful and reasonable. LOL. When I took it I started laughing about a question with a bug wearing a backpack with rockets on it. I thought they would throw me out! 🙂 It was SO dumb. There were only 2 questions on nutrition then. I hear maybe now it's a bit useful.
 
doctorNMeastcoast said:
I'm old! Took it in '03. So maybe the MCAT has become useful and reasonable. LOL. When I took it I started laughing about a question with a bug wearing a backpack with rockets on it. I thought they would throw me out! 🙂 It was SO dumb. There were only 2 questions on nutrition then. I hear maybe now it's a bit useful.
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Definitely was more straightforward when I took it in 2016. They had also just added the psychology and sociology sections, which I thought were super easy (and on which I scored highest), but which some really science-heavy applicants seemed to struggle more with. Either way, sounds better than what you took. Whereas I had a classmate get a question on step 1 regarding how various kidney function parameters would be expected to change in space flight...
 
DOnutDoc said:
Knowing what I know now I would have never applied to med school. Honestly I don't even know why I really applied. I would have been content being a teacher or clinical psychologist. Everyone tells me that its only a few years and soon I'll be making money and have loads of time off- but that's not true. It just feels like I've signed my life away for something I dont even enjoy. I think of quitting all the time.
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Seriously, how many people actually enjoy med school? Let's be honest, if there were no negative consequences, what would most people pick between lying on the couch eating bon bons and watching 10 hours of TV vs 10 hours of med school lectures or rounding or standing in the OR?

I'm glad I did med school, but if I was forced to go through it again vs work at Starbucks, I'd serve lattes all day long. I'm glad I'm going through residency but if was forced to repeat it vs Starbucks, you guessed it: lattes all day long, every day, all day and night. I look at the poor, poor interns and residents below me and, even though I made it through fine, I feel like there's no way I could endure it again.

Anyway, sounds like you just need to pull back from the big picture and make time for med training and time for whatever you enjoy. Also, I recommend psychiatry.
 
DOnutDoc said:
I thought that after getting through 1st semester the feeling of hating med school would go away. For the most part I know how to study now and I successfully passed all my classes to this point. Yet here I am starting second semester and I'm still searching up posts about quitting medicine. Its not that the material is hard or anything, I just hate it. I don't find it interesting. I used to love my Neuro classes in undergrad and actually looked forward to learning. Now I wake up everyday and force myself to watch lectures that I care nothing about. I dont care for the diseases that so and so causes. I don't care for correlating things together. Im just trying to pass.

And then I start thinking about the future. About how many years I have left. About how I have to study for the STEP and COMLEX soon and how I have no idea how I'll do it since studying for the MCAT was so difficult. Then Ill be giving up my time for clinicals and the stress of 3rd year. I have given up so much already for medicine. I just moved across the country from my family and hate it. I miss everyone and I feel guilty for leaving them behind. Im driving myself into so much debt.

Knowing what I know now I would have never applied to med school. Honestly I don't even know why I really applied. I would have been content being a teacher or clinical psychologist. Everyone tells me that its only a few years and soon I'll be making money and have loads of time off- but that's not true. It just feels like I've signed my life away for something I dont even enjoy. I think of quitting all the time. I probably would if it weren't for the peer pressure. I know I probably sound whiny and I wouldnt usually post this on SDN but I need to get it out somewhere.
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I firmly believe that only those called to this profession should go into it. Medical school is NOT fun and the luster of being a doctor becomes more and more dim every year.

You may have written this in an emotionally charged state. But if you still feel this after you have calmed down (especially the part where you said you'd be content in another field), I urge you to leave now.

The debt is sickening. You sell your life away to this profession. I sometimes think it was the wrong move for me too. It is endless frustration and stress. I really do hate it sometimes.
 
DOnutDoc said:
I thought that after getting through 1st semester the feeling of hating med school would go away. For the most part I know how to study now and I successfully passed all my classes to this point. Yet here I am starting second semester and I'm still searching up posts about quitting medicine. Its not that the material is hard or anything, I just hate it. I don't find it interesting. I used to love my Neuro classes in undergrad and actually looked forward to learning. Now I wake up everyday and force myself to watch lectures that I care nothing about. I dont care for the diseases that so and so causes. I don't care for correlating things together. Im just trying to pass.

And then I start thinking about the future. About how many years I have left. About how I have to study for the STEP and COMLEX soon and how I have no idea how I'll do it since studying for the MCAT was so difficult. Then Ill be giving up my time for clinicals and the stress of 3rd year. I have given up so much already for medicine. I just moved across the country from my family and hate it. I miss everyone and I feel guilty for leaving them behind. Im driving myself into so much debt.

Knowing what I know now I would have never applied to med school. Honestly I don't even know why I really applied. I would have been content being a teacher or clinical psychologist. Everyone tells me that its only a few years and soon I'll be making money and have loads of time off- but that's not true. It just feels like I've signed my life away for something I dont even enjoy. I think of quitting all the time. I probably would if it weren't for the peer pressure. I know I probably sound whiny and I wouldnt usually post this on SDN but I need to get it out somewhere.
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I'm weeks away from being done with preclinical and I can relate. Honestly it gets a lot better toward the beginning of second year if you're on a normal curriculum. The content gets more interesting, useful, and relatable although the schedule and load is much much worse.

Studying all the time sucks and I thought about quitting a lot too. But it comes to an end, I promise. Being scared of passing and keeping grades up is never a good feeling. Living in constant fear and dread is not a good feeling.

If you really want it, hang on. If you really don't, quit. Do what your heart tells you.
 
I know the general attitude is "hang with it, it will get better" but I'm leaving medical school and can't remember the last time I felt this happy. I talked to a friend who did the same thing after her first year and she felt the same way.
 
Doc_Ock said:
I know the general attitude is "hang with it, it will get better" but I'm leaving medical school and can't remember the last time I felt this happy. I talked to a friend who did the same thing after her first year and she felt the same way.
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leaving as in graduating?
 
To be fair, you don't really see anything relating to your potential future career in medicine until M3 at most schools. It's a ****ty situation, because if you hate M1-2, that's just normal. If you hate everything about M3 (not just the evaluations, constant pimping, and feeling like you have to try to impress people 24/7, but the actual patient care), that's not a great sign for your career longevity in medicine (except perhaps in a niche specialty). And at that point it's almost too late to quit because you need a hell of a lot of income if you want to pay off those loans, yet it's the only time you can actually make an informed decision to leave medicine IMO. Of course, there are ways to get the loans discharged outside medicine, but it's a ****ty position to be in, for sure.
 
Osminog said:
Aren’t you approaching the end of third year? What made you decide to quit so late in the game?
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I have my reasons that I don't feel comfortable getting into here.
 
We start our clinical rotations a little earlier so I got a chance to see what it’s like to do both preclinical and clinical work before the end of my second year.

I have enjoyed some parts and not others. But most importantly, I worry about some of the stuff I see on here and wonder what this career will look like for us who are still very junior in our training. SDN for all its faults has been on the mark for many things (eg P/F step discussions way before it hit the mainstream) and so I heed the warnings on here seriously though with a baseline of caution, as with all things.

And depending on what you’ve had to sacrifice to get here, it may or may not be worth it in the end. But the end is very far away and there is only one way to find out. Unfortunately many come to find what they already knew for years and are filled with regret and nihilism. And others find it much better later on.

Roll your dice.
 
DOnutDoc said:
I thought that after getting through 1st semester the feeling of hating med school would go away. For the most part I know how to study now and I successfully passed all my classes to this point. Yet here I am starting second semester and I'm still searching up posts about quitting medicine. Its not that the material is hard or anything, I just hate it. I don't find it interesting. I used to love my Neuro classes in undergrad and actually looked forward to learning. Now I wake up everyday and force myself to watch lectures that I care nothing about. I dont care for the diseases that so and so causes. I don't care for correlating things together. Im just trying to pass.

And then I start thinking about the future. About how many years I have left. About how I have to study for the STEP and COMLEX soon and how I have no idea how I'll do it since studying for the MCAT was so difficult. Then Ill be giving up my time for clinicals and the stress of 3rd year. I have given up so much already for medicine. I just moved across the country from my family and hate it. I miss everyone and I feel guilty for leaving them behind. Im driving myself into so much debt.

Knowing what I know now I would have never applied to med school. Honestly I don't even know why I really applied. I would have been content being a teacher or clinical psychologist. Everyone tells me that its only a few years and soon I'll be making money and have loads of time off- but that's not true. It just feels like I've signed my life away for something I dont even enjoy. I think of quitting all the time. I probably would if it weren't for the peer pressure. I know I probably sound whiny and I wouldnt usually post this on SDN but I need to get it out somewhere.
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Hey! I'm in the same boat as you! I feel like I'm always afraid that I'm not good enough and that I would be better off doing something in healthcare but not medicine. However, what helps me get through these feelings is trying to remember WHY I wanted to become a physician rather than focusing on how much time I have left. If your school is offering mental health services, I would recommend talking to someone-- they may help you sort out your feelings. Another recommendation I would have is to reread your personal statement and figure out WHY you applied to medical school and if medical school is the only way you can accomplish your goals. Clearly, when applying there was something that drew you to medicine and rereading your personal statement may help you remember why you decided to go through this long process. And for me what also helps is that I talk to my family at least 2-3 times a week for 15 minutes after dinner. This makes me feel like I'm less alone and less guilty for not spending time with them. I hope you end up figuring out what you want to do and are happy with whatever decision you end up making!
 
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
 
justdontDOit said:
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
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In response to codes, what if you just switched specialties to a more outpatient based on?
 
justdontDOit said:
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
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There's a lot of fields that don't do codes, acuity is less, and patient care is handled differently. A lot of your reasons for hating certain fields is why I knew I never wanted to do IM. Not the codes so much as the feeling of a revolving door with patchwork done on patients just to get them well enough to DC without much support to prevent them from returning. Some of that is the failings of the American Healthcare system, and some are specific to the outlook in a lot of fields.

I'm sorry that you didn't have much support or mentorship at your residency. Fortunately, with 1 year of completed GME and the COMLEX series, you can obtain a full medical license is 30+ states. The jobs you find with that will likely be limited, but I think you'd find them a lot less stressful than working inpatient.

mwsapphire said:
Yeah, like a primary care focused family medicine that's more time in clinic and less in the hospital?
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A lot of FM programs have residents running codes and working in the ICUs. All of them require at least some time on inpatient medicine and ICU, along with EM. There are still some fields that will minimize time in the hospital, as well as some FM programs that try and do the bare minimum.

I don't know that I would encourage people to go to those FM programs, but if outpatient primary care with lots of connections to specialists is the work you know you plan to do, it's certainly an option

thepoopologist said:
www.cnn.com

An Arizona student was arrested after threatening to kill medical school classmates and bomb the campus, authorities say

A student in Arizona was arrested after threatening to kill some of their medical school classmates and bomb the school campus, the Glendale Police Department said in a news release.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

Yikes
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Yeesh, sounds pretty bad. AZCOM student that failed Level 1 twice and threatened a ton of students, faculty, the campus and even student families through social media/online.
 
justdontDOit said:
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
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If I may ask, what is your plan going forward? Sorry to hear you've had such a rough go of things.

Also, what are your thoughts on switching to something less demanding like PM&R or psych, or something non-clinical like path?
 
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hallowmann said:
There's a lot of fields that don't do codes, acuity is less, and patient care is handled differently. A lot of your reasons for hating certain fields is why I knew I never wanted to do IM. Not the codes so much as the feeling of a revolving door with patchwork done on patients just to get them well enough to DC without much support to prevent them from returning. Some of that is the failings of the American Healthcare system, and some are specific to the outlook in a lot of fields.

I'm sorry that you didn't have much support or mentorship at your residency. Fortunately, with 1 year of completed GME and the COMLEX series, you can obtain a full medical license is 30+ states. The jobs you find with that will likely be limited, but I think you'd find them a lot less stressful than working inpatient.


A lot of FM programs have residents running codes and working in the ICUs. All of them require at least some time on inpatient medicine and ICU, along with EM. There are still some fields that will minimize time in the hospital, as well as some FM programs that try and do the bare minimum.

I don't know that I would encourage people to go to those FM programs, but if outpatient primary care with lots of connections to specialists is the work you know you plan to do, it's certainly an option


Yeesh, sounds pretty bad. AZCOM student that failed Level 1 twice and threatened a ton of students, faculty, the campus and even student families through social media/online.
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Why is the most surprising thing in that news article about the AZCOM student the fact that she's a woman most of these violent crimes are men
 
hallowmann said:
There's a lot of fields that don't do codes, acuity is less, and patient care is handled differently. A lot of your reasons for hating certain fields is why I knew I never wanted to do IM. Not the codes so much as the feeling of a revolving door with patchwork done on patients just to get them well enough to DC without much support to prevent them from returning. Some of that is the failings of the American Healthcare system, and some are specific to the outlook in a lot of fields.

I'm sorry that you didn't have much support or mentorship at your residency. Fortunately, with 1 year of completed GME and the COMLEX series, you can obtain a full medical license is 30+ states. The jobs you find with that will likely be limited, but I think you'd find them a lot less stressful than working inpatient.


A lot of FM programs have residents running codes and working in the ICUs. All of them require at least some time on inpatient medicine and ICU, along with EM. There are still some fields that will minimize time in the hospital, as well as some FM programs that try and do the bare minimum.

I don't know that I would encourage people to go to those FM programs, but if outpatient primary care with lots of connections to specialists is the work you know you plan to do, it's certainly an option


Yeesh, sounds pretty bad. AZCOM student that failed Level 1 twice and threatened a ton of students, faculty, the campus and even student families through social media/online.
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She sounds like she was in a bad spot mentally if she failed twice. She was likely gonna fail again so the warning about expulsion probably pushed her over the edge. Crazy.
 
justdontDOit said:
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
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Don’t go into something that requires codes after residency. I am trying to think of what specialty you must have been in, cause it sounds like medicine but that’s not 4 years.

I agree that the system sucks and is self serving and many of our admits are totally pointless medically whether the real issue is social issue or inappropriate goals of care. But it sounds like the codes are what bothers you. I can fix that, just got to change how you think about codes:
1. That person is dying, like they will die if your not there and likely will die anyway within the next 30 days even if you succeed. So if you ‘screw up’ and they die, all that happened is what was gonna happen anyway.
2. You got more time than you think. My least favorite is airway codes. I can’t tube anyone (not signed off cause not enough) at this point so it’s nightmare if some fat old patients going down. But guess what, I can have nurses bag mask and I can call whoever’s on for anesthesia, and they will solve my issues. You got more time then you think. Also narcan, if it’s just airway, it’s prob opiates. Even if it’s not a little narcan can always make things more fun.
3. It’s all BLS. All the drugs confuse you? Who cares, none of that crap works except epi sometimes. High quality CPR is what gets people through codes. Not sure where to go, get a dang istat chem and blood, glucose and send down a rainbow. Get a chest X-ray and ekg. Just pretend your the ER. Something will be messed up and if it’s not I question if it’s a code.

Anyway, not what you came here for, but I agree with the others that you should see what you can switch into that can lower the stress. I think quiting residency is a whole different can of worms than quitting medical school.

if your done with a year you could also do Indian health service or direct primary care/Botox, but I would encourage you to finish residency over those options if possible
 
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BorntobeDO? said:
Don’t go into something that requires codes after residency. I am trying to think of what specialty you must have been in, cause it sounds like medicine but that’s not 4 years.

I agree that the system sucks and is self serving and many of our admits are totally pointless medically whether the real issue is social issue or inappropriate goals of care. But it sounds like the codes are what bothers you. I can fix that, just got to change how you think about codes:
1. That person is dying, like they will die if your not there and likely will die anyway within the next 30 days even if you succeed. So if you ‘screw up’ and they die, all that happened is what was gonna happen anyway.
2. You got more time than you think. My least favorite is airway codes. I can’t tube anyone (not signed off cause not enough) at this point so it’s nightmare if some fat old patients going down. But guess what, I can have nurses bag mask and I can call whoever’s on for anesthesia, and they will solve my issues. You got more time then you think. Also narcan, if it’s just airway, it’s prob opiates. Even if it’s not a little narcan can always make things more fun.
3. It’s all BLS. All the drugs confuse you? Who cares, none of that crap works except epi sometimes. High quality CPR is what gets people through codes. Not sure where to go, get a dang istat chem and blood, glucose and send down a rainbow. Get a chest X-ray and ekg. Just pretend your the ER. Something will be messed up and if it’s not I question if it’s a code.

Anyway, not what you came here for, but I agree with the others that you should see what you can switch into that can lower the stress. I think quiting residency is a whole different can of worms than quitting medical school.

if your done with a year you could also do Indian health service or direct primary care/Botox, but I would encourage you to finish residency over those options if possible
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Could be in old AOA ER. Switch to the 3 year residency when going to ACGME. There’s also some MD 4 year programs. Such as UC Denver
 
DO2015CA said:
Could be in old AOA ER. Switch to the 3 year residency when going to ACGME. There’s also some MD 4 year programs. Such as UC Denver
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I was honestly thinking EM (25% of programs are 4 yr) or Neuro. Both 4 yrs, both crap hours/shifts especially in the beginning, both likely involved in codes. I guess it could be OB also.
BorntobeDO? said:
Don’t go into something that requires codes after residency. I am trying to think of what specialty you must have been in, cause it sounds like medicine but that’s not 4 years.

I agree that the system sucks and is self serving and many of our admits are totally pointless medically whether the real issue is social issue or inappropriate goals of care. But it sounds like the codes are what bothers you. I can fix that, just got to change how you think about codes:
1. That person is dying, like they will die if your not there and likely will die anyway within the next 30 days even if you succeed. So if you ‘screw up’ and they die, all that happened is what was gonna happen anyway.
2. You got more time than you think. My least favorite is airway codes. I can’t tube anyone (not signed off cause not enough) at this point so it’s nightmare if some fat old patients going down. But guess what, I can have nurses bag mask and I can call whoever’s on for anesthesia, and they will solve my issues. You got more time then you think. Also narcan, if it’s just airway, it’s prob opiates. Even if it’s not a little narcan can always make things more fun.
3. It’s all BLS. All the drugs confuse you? Who cares, none of that crap works except epi sometimes. High quality CPR is what gets people through codes. Not sure where to go, get a dang istat chem and blood, glucose and send down a rainbow. Get a chest X-ray and ekg. Just pretend your the ER. Something will be messed up and if it’s not I question if it’s a code.

Anyway, not what you came here for, but I agree with the others that you should see what you can switch into that can lower the stress. I think quiting residency is a whole different can of worms than quitting medical school.

if your done with a year you could also do Indian health service or direct primary care/Botox, but I would encourage you to finish residency over those options if possible
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I think OnlineMedEd had a good simple 1-sheet for ACLS drugs that is easy to remember even during a code. Also, huge fan of LMAs and bagging. There's nothing wrong with that. Bag and wait for gas to show up if you are not getting the airway.
 
justdontDOit said:
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response. Mind me asking what you're planning on doing? Ive stuck it out for now but I am nearing the end of M1 year and not doing so great. Quite honestly Im worried I might not even make it to M2 and so I dont even know if its worth it anymore. It only gets harder from here and I cant seem to pass here...
 
Thought I would write an update since this thread is still active and my situation has gotten worse unfortunately:

I thought second semester would be easier but I screwed up and ended up failing my first course (pathology). It wasnt even that bad of a course, I was just going through some depression and ended up failing my second exam pretty badly. After that I was able to pass all my other courses until these past few weeks. My school has a policy that I must receive a 70% on OPP written exams to pass and I just found out that I got a 66% on OPP 3. It was a week filled with exams and if I had more time to study I could have done well. Funny thing is I did great on the practical but guess that doesn't matter. Unless by some miracle, I'm probably going to have to remediate that course too. So now I have 2 classes that I need to remediate in one week. Im also finishing up my gastro course right now which I failed the midterm already so if I don't get a 74% on the final I will have failed that too. That could be a total of 3 courses I will have to make up in 1 week.

I don't know what to do. Im so burnt out. Its looking like I will only have one week of summer break but that could go away too depending on my remediations. Im trying to study for gastro but Im finding it difficult to focus. I don't even know if I can get a 74%. I worked so hard to get here and am so close to being done, I don't want to fail out. Its not like im not trying-im just not smart enough for this I guess. The burn out isnt helping either. Should I just give up now? I have nobody to turn to. All I've got is a useless bachelors degree. All I ever worked for was to make it to med school. I dont know what to do.

I don't know if this is possible but im thinking of reaching out to my schools admin and asking for a LOA? I feel like with the path im on now I can't possibly pass. This way I can come back next year and make up the classes when im not so burnt out. Because honestly right now I feel like im self sabotaging. The thing is, if I struggled so much right now is it worth continuing on in this field? I really do like some aspects of medicine but I don't know if its worth it anymore. Im already about 180k in debt as it is. If I cant guarantee passing M1 how can I pass M2 and board exams?
 
I agree that you should definitely take a leave of absence if you can. You are definitely smart enough to pass these classes, but it seems like you are getting caught up somewhere. Whether that’s testing anxiety, attention issues, or something else is not for any of us folks on the internet to say. But if you have access to a therapist or counselor that would be a good person for you to see. Having some time away from school might help you decide if you still want to do medicine too. If they don’t grant you the LOA, just buckle down and know that you can give yourself a break here and there throughout the next semester to recover. Also always remember to be kind to yourself and also know that if you decide to leave medicine that is more than okay. Wishing you the best of luck!
 
OP, nothing in this thread indicates you want to be a physician. I'd be inclined to say things like, it gets better, etc. but what would be the point when nothing here indicates you have an ounce of motivation anymore? I'm not judging you for failing classes. I'm just taking what you're typing at face value. Do you want us to tell you to soldier on if you really feel this way? Now's the best time to get out. If you don't want to do that, then explain why because financially the hole's going to get deeper. Yes an effective $200K debt will still exist and be nothing to balk at, but what we don't want is to be having is this discussion two years down the line with $300-400K debt with even more burnout after you realize your prospects of matching as a DO with failed classes are below average (but still doable).

Short term, I agree that you need some time off to just consider the bigger picture and to halt any negative feedback loop between your poor class performance and your mental state. Maybe that will spark some motivation that could have been buried under depression and things will improve. I think the majority of us can relate to the hopeless feeling of having worked to medical school your whole life and literally not having anything else to bank on, but the difference is that most of us have aspirations in medicine that wake us up every day. It doesn't really seem like you do and you're just continuing on so you don't end up with all this debt if I'm reading between the lines correctly. At the end of the day you have somewhere between 30-40 years of work prior to retirement and it's a disservice to you, your colleagues, and your patients to labor on if your heart's not really in medicine. From a financial standpoint, finishing just so you can pay off your debt and then leaving has its pros/cons. Let's march it out. You're looking at accumulating 300-400K (assuming some of that 200K is UG loans) over the next two years and getting a job for the next 3 years that nets you 20-30K savings/year after taxes/living expenses. Assuming you put that all to your debt, that's still 250-300K of debt you'd have 5 years from today that arguably you could then pay off in 3 years with aggressive repayments and a good primary care attending income. In short, you're looking to put yourself through 8 more years of what you're saying is utter misery just to be debt free whereas if you stop now and try to find something that suits your interests more, you're going to be in debt for a longer period of time, but you'll have those 8 years to do as you please.

The only other point I'd make is that I would not jump to clinical psychology, etc. instead of medicine because I think your financial situations prohibts that. I would find something you could start up immediately with a affordable barriers to entry that you could build skill/competence and work yourself up in but without a long financial investment in schooling. A clinical psychology program typically averages 5 years of classes, a 1 year internship, 1 year of other stuff prior to practicing and the money there is not the kind where you're making significant contributions to your debt on an annual basis. To give you a number, a clinical psychologist makes between 60-100K starting.
 
Last edited:
DOnutDoc said:
Thought I would write an update since this thread is still active and my situation has gotten worse unfortunately:

I thought second semester would be easier but I screwed up and ended up failing my first course (pathology). It wasnt even that bad of a course, I was just going through some depression and ended up failing my second exam pretty badly. After that I was able to pass all my other courses until these past few weeks. My school has a policy that I must receive a 70% on OPP written exams to pass and I just found out that I got a 66% on OPP 3. It was a week filled with exams and if I had more time to study I could have done well. Funny thing is I did great on the practical but guess that doesn't matter. Unless by some miracle, I'm probably going to have to remediate that course too. So now I have 2 classes that I need to remediate in one week. Im also finishing up my gastro course right now which I failed the midterm already so if I don't get a 74% on the final I will have failed that too. That could be a total of 3 courses I will have to make up in 1 week.

I don't know what to do. Im so burnt out. Its looking like I will only have one week of summer break but that could go away too depending on my remediations. Im trying to study for gastro but Im finding it difficult to focus. I don't even know if I can get a 74%. I worked so hard to get here and am so close to being done, I don't want to fail out. Its not like im not trying-im just not smart enough for this I guess. The burn out isnt helping either. Should I just give up now? I have nobody to turn to. All I've got is a useless bachelors degree. All I ever worked for was to make it to med school. I dont know what to do.

I don't know if this is possible but im thinking of reaching out to my schools admin and asking for a LOA? I feel like with the path im on now I can't possibly pass. This way I can come back next year and make up the classes when im not so burnt out. Because honestly right now I feel like im self sabotaging. The thing is, if I struggled so much right now is it worth continuing on in this field? I really do like some aspects of medicine but I don't know if its worth it anymore. Im already about 180k in debt as it is. If I cant guarantee passing M1 how can I pass M2 and board exams?
Click to expand...

The first priority is to study for your GI final to get the score you need to pass the class.

After that, you should probably request a LOA. It sounds like you need some time to reflect on your mental health, study skills, professional goals, etc.
 
justdontDOit said:
I'm a resident who just resigned from my program after PGY1. I very much disliked MS1-2, but the clinical years MS3-4 were not much more enjoyable for me. There were always some patients that I enjoyed working with, but overall, I didn't care for most of the clinical training. During PGY1 I became overwhelmed with hospital codes. I had so many patients present to the ED week after week and be admitted for the most frustrating work ups, I felt like the whole system is self-serving and doesn't help patients ever heal. I felt susceptible to all the pain inside the hospital- ie: patients dying from COVID and their families in despair. It became too much and with the realization that I would soon be a senior, I panicked and resigned. Never felt like I had any mentors in the hospital or my residency who truly understood that their advice "it'll get better" was not enough. Anyway, I burned out and at this point, the desire to be a doctor that I had back in 2016 when I applied to medical school is not enough to make the overwhelming stress of a four year residency worth it for me. I am $410K in debt, but honestly, I think if I tried to stick it out, I would be postponing the inevitable, which is that I don't enjoy the job and want to quit. And what am I supposed to do when I freeze every time a code is called and I'm supposed to be the resident going to help a patient? It is such an odd predicament I wouldn't have seen until I myself was a resident physician.

My advice is to follow your heart. Maybe we are all just trying to figure this thing out one day at a time, but you have to be true to yourself. Only you get to live your life every day, no one else gets that amazing opportunity. best of luck!
Click to expand...

This is such a sad, but genuine post and I am sorry to hear this and please feel free to reach out to anyone here who you think may be able to give you career advice for your transition. Your admission to freezing up, your debt level, but decision to walk away hopefully destigmatizes the decision for others to simply walk away.
 
I know someone who dropped out of a top medical school in the first semester because they didn't enjoy it. Interestingly enough they found another career in healthcare that they enjoyed because they felt it would afford them a better lifestyle.

If you have any sort of interest in medicine (but just not the trials and tribulations of going through medical school and residency) then you could consider becoming either a PA or an AA (anesthesiologist assistant). AAs can make primary care physician salary after roughly a 30 month program with a 100% job placement rate due to the current anesthesia market.

Hospital administration is also a good career choice. Perhaps you can study for the LSAT and go to a T14 law school and specialize in healthcare law. Maybe get an MBA and start your own business.

The bottom line is, medical school is not the end-all-be-all for happiness.
 
El-Rami said:
If you have any sort of interest in medicine (but just not the trials and tribulations of going through medical school and residency) then you could consider becoming either a PA or an AA (anesthesiologist assistant). AAs can make primary care physician salary after roughly a 30 month program with a 100% job placement rate due to the current anesthesia market.
Click to expand...

AAs are only able to practice in 18 states and Washington, DC. Their average starting salary is lower than that of a PCP or a CRNA. Case Western reports an average $160K salary for its AA graduates. The job market is dominated by CRNAs, so employment options aren’t ideal for AA program grads.

Also, dropping out of med school after academic failures makes one a less competitive applicant to PA and AA programs. It’s not necessarily an option worth counting on.
 
Osminog said:
AAs are only able to practice in 18 states and Washington, DC. Their average starting salary is lower than that of a PCP or a CRNA. Case Western reports an average $160K salary for its AA graduates. The job market is dominated by CRNAs, so employment options aren’t ideal for AA program grads.

Also, dropping out of med school after academic failures makes one a less competitive applicant to PA and AA programs. It’s not necessarily an option worth counting on.
Click to expand...

That's not true, actually. It can be tricky to get admitted to a PA program after dropping out of med school, but it isn't impossible. AA programs likely could care less, assuming your GPA was actually competitive for med school in the first place. You can market even a partial medical education if you know how to sell it.

As for salary, they are typically paid the same as CRNAs because it is the same job (and physicians prefer to hire AAs over CRNAs). Starting salary might be closer to 160k but I've personally seen it as high as 180k (plus sign-on bonus) in the midwest on Gaswork.com (pretty typical). With some experience (typically 3-5 years) the average salary is at least 200k/year, for 40 hours a week. With overtime it isn't unrealistic to make about 250k.

They are limited where they can practice, you are correct about that. However, they are slowly expanding despite heavy CRNA opposition. That is due in large part to broad support from the ASA.

For what it's worth, I am actually aware of at least a handful of former med students in a PA program as well as at least a handful in AA programs. The people in the PA program are local. Certainly not impossible to get into a PA program after being in med school, although it will depend on certain factors (reasons for leaving, medical diagnosis discovered after leaving, undergraduate GPA, clinical hours, etc.). AA has no discernible anti-ex-med student bias; in fact prior med school experience can be a positive. It isn't strict about requiring clinical experience (just about a week's worth of shadowing experience with an anesthesiologist, AA, or CRNA).

Again, the OP should do what they want. I am just presenting viable alternatives because this information is not really accessible.

www.anesthetist.org

Frequently Asked Questions | AAAA

www.anesthetist.org www.anesthetist.org
 
Last edited:
El-Rami said:
That's not true, actually. It can be tricky to get admitted to a PA program after dropping out of med school, but it isn't impossible. AA programs likely could care less, assuming your GPA was actually competitive for med school in the first place. You can market even a partial medical education if you know how to sell it.

As for salary, they are typically paid the same as CRNAs because it is the same job (and physicians prefer to hire AAs over CRNAs). Starting salary might be closer to 160k but I've personally seen it as high as 180k (plus sign-on bonus) in the midwest on Gaswork.com (pretty typical). With some experience (typically 3-5 years) the average salary is at least 200k/year, for 40 hours a week. With overtime it isn't unrealistic to make about 250k.

They are limited where they can practice, you are correct about that. However, they are slowly expanding despite heavy CRNA opposition. That is due in large part to broad support from the ASA.

For what it's worth, I am actually aware of at least a handful of former med students in a PA program as well as at least a handful in AA programs. The people in the PA program are local. Certainly not impossible to get into a PA program after being in med school, although it will depend on certain factors (reasons for leaving, medical diagnosis discovered after leaving, undergraduate GPA, clinical hours, etc.). AA has no discernible anti-ex-med student bias; in fact prior med school experience can be a positive. It isn't strict about requiring clinical experience (just about a week's worth of shadowing experience with an anesthesiologist, AA, or CRNA).

Again, the OP should do what they want. I am just presenting viable alternatives because this information is not really accessible.

www.anesthetist.org

Frequently Asked Questions | AAAA

www.anesthetist.org www.anesthetist.org
Click to expand...
Hi, are you an AA? You seem to know a lot about this profession. Do you know where I can go for updates on which states they are expanding the AA programs to?
 
rafacena said:
Hi, are you an AA? You seem to know a lot about this profession. Do you know where I can go for updates on which states they are expanding the AA programs to?
Click to expand...

Check the link above.
 
Last edited:
DOnutDoc said:
Thought I would write an update since this thread is still active and my situation has gotten worse unfortunately:

I thought second semester would be easier but I screwed up and ended up failing my first course (pathology). It wasnt even that bad of a course, I was just going through some depression and ended up failing my second exam pretty badly. After that I was able to pass all my other courses until these past few weeks. My school has a policy that I must receive a 70% on OPP written exams to pass and I just found out that I got a 66% on OPP 3. It was a week filled with exams and if I had more time to study I could have done well. Funny thing is I did great on the practical but guess that doesn't matter. Unless by some miracle, I'm probably going to have to remediate that course too. So now I have 2 classes that I need to remediate in one week. Im also finishing up my gastro course right now which I failed the midterm already so if I don't get a 74% on the final I will have failed that too. That could be a total of 3 courses I will have to make up in 1 week.

I don't know what to do. Im so burnt out. Its looking like I will only have one week of summer break but that could go away too depending on my remediations. Im trying to study for gastro but Im finding it difficult to focus. I don't even know if I can get a 74%. I worked so hard to get here and am so close to being done, I don't want to fail out. Its not like im not trying-im just not smart enough for this I guess. The burn out isnt helping either. Should I just give up now? I have nobody to turn to. All I've got is a useless bachelors degree. All I ever worked for was to make it to med school. I dont know what to do.

I don't know if this is possible but im thinking of reaching out to my schools admin and asking for a LOA? I feel like with the path im on now I can't possibly pass. This way I can come back next year and make up the classes when im not so burnt out. Because honestly right now I feel like im self sabotaging. The thing is, if I struggled so much right now is it worth continuing on in this field? I really do like some aspects of medicine but I don't know if its worth it anymore. Im already about 180k in debt as it is. If I cant guarantee passing M1 how can I pass M2 and board exams?
Click to expand...
My former school required that you be passing at the time of leave, but I think you need to try anyway. This story is not getting better.
 
You mentioned depression. Have you thought about getting checked for sleep apnea? Because sleep apnea's symptom of fatigue is a common symptom of various psychiatric conditions, including major depressive disorder; it can be overlooked and be misdiagnosed. Maybe get a referral to a sleep specialist who is a physician. Do not see a mid-level because they will likely misdiagnose you, if you have sleep apnea. You don't want to be told to just "take some melatonin" and that does absolutely nothing to help you when what you might really need is a CPAP machine.

Maybe get some blood work to see if you are anemic or have some thyroid disorder, for example.

Bottom line: Get a full medical workup immediately. See a real doctor. Don't take any chances that you could have a medical condition that is being misdiagnosed. This is your future, so take a firm stance if you have cause to believe that there could be something else happening besides depression.

Being treated for depression and still having some issues academically (i.e., "burn out") can mean one of three things: 1) you are not compliant with treatment, 2) you have refractory depression, or 3) you have another underlying medical diagnosis that is not being treated. I would not assume that you are incapable from an intellectual standpoint, assuming that the admissions office did their job and didn't intentionally admit someone they knew was doomed to fail.

I'm not a doctor, but I am trying to give you some advice so you can help right the ship. You need to do it quickly. Pursue the medical LOA if possible.
 
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