Have I been sabotaged?

[fingers]

I was denied for the 3rd time this year. After the stunning faded away I decided to find out what happened. I met with the dean of admissions and he hinted around to some discussion of my application during the ADCOM meeting.

The discussions were targeted at a list of the ADCOM members that I had. I met with this same dean in 2009 when he told me that I "need to get to know some people." After sleeping on that I called the dean's office and requested a list of the admissions committee members. Low and behold an email arrived that day (January). Woe, this can't be right. So I sat on the list and asked other dentists what they thought of it. 90% of them told me to use it! Finally in November I gave in and contacted 1 person from the list. They asked how I found out about their office so I told them. (I'm not a secretive person) The dean indicated that my application came up for acceptance but this one person stood up and argued against me for having such a list. So now what can I do to fix this?

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[molar3]

what are you talking about? im confused that story didnt make much sense. please re explain

 

[fingers]

The dean of admissions gave me a list of the admissions committee members so I can get to know them. I didn't feel right in contacting any of these people but several other dentists recommended that I use it to my advantage. The one dentist that I met from the list used this information to keep me out.

 

[Maygyver]

Why not be professional and go right to the source and chat with the dean about it?

 

[MacPreDent]

So you wanted to brown nose ADCOMS therefore you obtained a list of them... (which is btw highly inappropriate). Then when one of them asked you how you had their contact info you told him/her the truth?
"I got your info cuz I got a list of all the adcoms so I could brown nose/beg/blackmail them".
s*** didn't sit well with him.

Is this what happened? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[fingers]

Nope. I'm not a brown noser.

As the dean explained it, not too many people know me. I need the dental community to know me - according to the dean.

I asked the dean why this person on the adcom was so against me when I did nothing wrong by obtaining a list from the dean's office. He recommended that we not discuss the list anymore. So am I supposed to wait until this person leaves the ADCOM? How can I fix the mess created by doing just what the dean of admissions recommended?

 

[MacPreDent]

Nope. I'm not a brown noser.

As the dean explained it, not too many people know me. I need the dental community to know me - according to the dean.

I asked the dean why this person on the adcom was so against me when I did nothing wrong by obtaining a list from the dean's office. He recommended that we not discuss the list anymore. So am I supposed to wait until this person leaves the ADCOM? How can I fix the mess created by doing just what the dean of admissions recommended?

Well, ok I didn't mean to offend you or anything but the whole situation is just so weird to me I can't even fathom it.
Did the dean originally imply you should get to know the ADCOMs or just dentists in general (as in do more shadowing)? I can't possibly see why a dean would tell a random student to get to know the ADCOMs.
In any case, not much you can do if you already got rejected, hopefully a different school will accept you this cycle or next.

 

[yappy]

Honestly - you should have never gave away your ace. Why did you feel the need to share that information?

 

[fingers]

The dean simply stated that my numbers all look good but I need someone to stand up for me in the meeting and really influence the committee. Is meeting a dentist 1 time going to make this happen? Absolutely not. But I am motivated to work with this dentist more now to help them understand my situation (and not sink me).

 

[K Niner]

This is all bizarre to say the least. The list aside, you applied to dental school three times and have not been accepted anywhere. This story applies to one school, which leads me to believe this is all nonsense, and the list is your misinterpreting things. But it doesn't really matter. The question is:

Why were you not accepted to the other schools you applied?

Also, what were your GPA/DATs?

And getting to know adcom members is absurd, dental students do not know adcom members personally, or in any way, before starting dental school.

 

[ChapelHillT]

So you wanted to brown nose ADCOMS therefore you obtained a list of them... (which is btw highly inappropriate). Then when one of them asked you how you had their contact info you told him/her the truth?
"I got your info cuz I got a list of all the adcoms so I could brown nose/beg/blackmail them".
s*** didn't sit well with him.

Is this what happened? Am I understanding this correctly?

Obviously the dean or someone in his office is the one who handed out the list. I fail to see why it's so bad to use this info if the op was given the list by the school.

It's definitely a sticky situation all the way around, but if legitimately given the list by the school, why not use it? It's not like the op lied about it or tried to hide anything, or even obtained the list in an underhanded manner. I don't see why that warrants an attack on him/her.

Op:I agree with an above poster, go sit down and talk to the dean about it. Sounds like you've handled it professionally thus far, so continue to do so, pursue it, and see if you get something out of it. Best of luck...

 

[fingers]

Honestly - you should have never gave away your ace. Why did you feel the need to share that information?

It didn't seem right. I wanted verification from ADCOM member that this is the right thing to do. If they told me sure, I would have gotten to know many more members of the ADCOM. Am I going to do this next year and not tell them of the list? no way, it's still not right.

 

[Faint]

Is this school OUCOD by any chance?

 

[fingers]

Honestly - you should have never gave away your ace. Why did you feel the need to share that information?

This is all bizarre to say the least. The list aside, you applied to dental school three times and have not been accepted anywhere. This story applies to one school, which leads me to believe this is all nonsense, and the list is your misinterpreting things. But it doesn't really matter. The question is:

Why were you not accepted to the other schools you applied?

Also, what were your GPA/DATs?

And getting to know adcom members is absurd, dental students do not know adcom members personally, or in any way, before starting dental school.

3.3, 20, A's for my interviews according to the Dean. Only one in state school.

 

[fingers]

I can't say which school. Have you had a similar situation occur with OUCOD?

 

[yappy]

"I was denied for the 3rd time this year"

This is all bizarre to say the least. The list aside, you applied to dental school three times and have not been accepted anywhere. This story applies to one school, which leads me to believe this is all nonsense, and the list is your misinterpreting things. But it doesn't really matter. The question is:

Why were you not accepted to the other schools you applied?

Also, what were your GPA/DATs?

OP: You have high charactor. This may be a small set back but you'll do just fine. Maybe just become a little bit more street smart.

 

[DMD 4 Me]

You should not have told the ADCOM guy you spoke to how and why you had his name. It does come off as brown-nosing

Regardless of what your intentions were.

I personally wouldn't ever bother with this, but since you went to the trouble to get a list of adcoms, what would have been smarter would have been to look up if any of the ADCOMs has a private practice, and gone there and asked if you could shadow, just like you would with any random dentist.

That way you could have built up a relationship with the dentist that may have helped you. Its less sketch, and may have worked

 

[K Niner]

3.3, 20, A's for my interviews according to the Dean. Only one in state school.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. That situation sounds odd and misunderstood on your part. It might not be, I dont know. 3.3 isn't a great GPA, the 20 is good (although you might have a section that is deficient), maybe your EC's. I mean, you know by now what you can do to improve and what you need i'm assuming.

They do like to see that you have improved your application (taking classes, improved DAT, more volunteering/shadowing, research, something).

All I can say is improve your application as much as possible. Raise that GPA, shadow, everything you can.

What's up with this one school? I don't know. But, what's up with you applying to one school? I mean the odds are against you. A lot of people with insane stats are turned down from multiple schools a year, so you REALLY should apply to a lot of school. Especially since your GPA is not stellar.

So next year, improve on everything you can, apply to a lot of schools, and if you don't get in still at least you will have a bunch of different perspectives from the various adcom's that can help you improve your application to where it needs to be.

 

[cmcner]

What's up with this one school? I don't know. But, what's up with you applying to one school? I mean the odds are against you. A lot of people with insane stats are turned down from multiple schools a year, so you REALLY should apply to a lot of school. Especially since your GPA is not stellar.

So next year, improve on everything you can, apply to a lot of schools, and if you don't get in still at least you will have a bunch of different perspectives from the various adcom's that can help you improve your application to where it needs to be.

By only applying to one cheap in state school and not getting in to school for 3 years you have cost yourself 3 years of salary which is like $320,000 on the low end plus 3 years experience. So many people say they can't afford the private schools when in reality they really can't afford to avoid them.

 

[yappy]

OP have you applied for three cycles or is this state school rejection your third rejection for this cycle?

 

[RSimon]

I dont see an issue with contacting those members on the list but it really depends on what the conversation entailed. If you were asking for advice on how to better yourself or make yourself more competitive thats fine but pretty much anything else comes across wrong. I have done something similar and it all turned out fine.

 

[jj007]

It is highly unusual for the dean to give out such a list. When I interviewed and asked for my interviewers' emails, I was told to email the admission rep and he/she will forward it to them. Again, it is highly unusual since schools try to keep that information confidential. Perhaps the dean is trying to make excuses for not accepting you. You should not be denied admission if only ONE person doesn't like you but the majority does.

I would suggest that you apply to more than one school for the next cycle.

 

[nze82]

Based on my experience, people on the committee hate being bothered by students who constantly ask them questions about their applications and I don't blame them! Reviewing such a large volume of applications is a hectic task.
I made the mistake you made with one of the admission people at UCLA and that pretty much kept me out of that school.
If you have the stats and you have a strong application, then there's really no reason for you to stalk these people.
A word of advice, don't seek advice regarding dental school admission from dentists. These people got out of school years ago, and most of them are clueless about the admission processes these days! If you want advice, go to dental students, who have been through this process before!

Good luck

P.S. Just because you've failed three times doesn't mean that you won't get in next time. My friend failed 3 times and she got in last cycle. So don't lose hope!!

 

[fingers]

I applied 3 cycles and to many schools. With my low GPA I don't have much of a chance OOS.

RSimon: that is precisely what I did. I didn't kiss up in any way but did ask what to do to become more competitve. They recommended a letter from the University President - got it, a letter from a congressman - got it.

 

[K Niner]

I applied 3 cycles and to many schools. With my low GPA I don't have much of a chance OOS.

RSimon: that is precisely what I did. I didn't kiss up in any way but did ask what to do to become more competitve. They recommended a letter from the University President - got it, a letter from a congressman - got it.

Those letters should play no role in your admission to dental school. They might, but they should not. What on earth could a congressman say about you regarding dental school.

You need to improve your GPA as you said. Stop messing around and trying to get connections to get you in. Take the best advice people can give you, which would be to do what dental students who got accepted did: get a better GPA, high DAT scores and the rest. Do a masters or something. But mainly STOP thinking that you can find alternative routes to get into dental school. (Like approaching adcom members, congressman, university president, etc.) And since you seem to be getting horrible advice from this dean, stop talking to them. Go to your undergrad pre-health counselor, another school's dean, someone else.

 

[Osity]

Nope. I'm not a brown noser.

As the dean explained it, not too many people know me. I need the dental community to know me - according to the dean.

I asked the dean why this person on the adcom was so against me when I did nothing wrong by obtaining a list from the dean's office. He recommended that we not discuss the list anymore. So am I supposed to wait until this person leaves the ADCOM? How can I fix the mess created by doing just what the dean of admissions recommended?

Most people that apply to dental school don't know any of the admissions people. I knew 2 people at one of the 9 schools I interviewed at. Everywhere I was meeting people for the first time. That's how 90% of people are doing it: they meet people when they interview, not by obtaining a list of the interviewers. It's great to network and build relationships, but if I were an adcom member, I would be very surprised if someone got my phone number the way that you did.

 

[yappy]

Oh okay... three cycles...

I think you need to expand the number of schools you're applying to. You have a 3.3 20dat. Those would fall within many standard deviations of some schools accepted averages. I think you should look at all the privites and also all the schools that accept many out of state applicants.

I applied 3 cycles and to many schools. With my low GPA I don't have much of a chance OOS.

RSimon: that is precisely what I did. I didn't kiss up in any way but did ask what to do to become more competitve. They recommended a letter from the University President - got it, a letter from a congressman - got it.

 

[glo1984]

With all respect, I just don't know if I can fathom such a situation. It seems like the real situation might have not involved obtaining a list from the dean but moreso on your own accord. If that was the case, I could understand the backlash because no one does this. As others have stated, none of these members want to be bothered!

If you want to get in with a 3.3, you need to have something that makes them forget the 3.3. If you can't retake the DAT and score 22+, you'll have the raise your GPA. By the way, I have never heard of anyone getting a letter from a congressman, university president or other such recommendations. Those letters scream "scripted"...

 

[gigawatt]

Your story doesn't add up.

First of all, a Dean even divulging the identities of the admission committee members is highly unlikely. Having one go so far as giving out contact information...well, I call bull on that. To top it off, you're claiming that the same Dean that gave you this inside information didn't stand up for you when one member of the admissions committee protested your having called him? Unless this Dean is two-faced jack***** that conspired against you, it would make sense for him to have interjected and admitted to having given out the phone number.

What really happened here?

 

[doc toothache]

RSimon: that is precisely what I did. I didn't kiss up in any way but did ask what to do to become more competitve. They recommended a letter from the University President - got it, a letter from a congressman - got it.

You took a joke and turned it into a personal crusade. The surprising part in trying to curry political favors from a university president and a congressman is not that your attempt was unsuccessful but that you actually got them to write you a letter. They were either bored to death and were looking for any activity or you have some serious connections. What will your ace be for the 4th try- a letter from Santa or the Commander-in-Chief or both?

 

[Folafemi]

I met with this same dean in 2009 when he told me that I "need to get to know some people." After sleeping on that I called the dean's office and requested a list of the admissions committee members.

This story sounds almost like a conspiracy theorist's idea of how the world is out to get him/her, the more I think about it the more I ask myself why a "Dean" would go to the level of handing applicants a list of ADCOM names just so you can stalk and bother them and their infant babies at 2am in the morning . Although it shows ur passionate about the field it also screams scary and stalker-ish and you should have known that, heck your imaginary "Dean" should have known that.

So I sat on the list and asked other dentists what they thought of it. 90% of them told me to use it! Finally in November I gave in and contacted 1 person from the list. They asked how I found out about their office so I told them.

If you contacted one person on the list why are "They" all of a sudden asking to know the source of your information. Heck I would have asked you the same thing. Imagine if every applicant called each ADCOM member just to get to know them

I was denied for the 3rd time this year....So now what can I do to fix this?

I suspect that this might be what you need help with and my advice would be cut the umbilical cord. Whatever attraction you have to this school is costing you financially, as earlier said >$360000 and perhaps professionally as you wouldn't want to be known among your peers as the one guy/gal who's always trying to get to "know you" so as to gain a favor.

 

[peanutb123]

Your story doesn't add up.

First of all, a Dean even divulging the identities of the admission committee members is highly unlikely. Having one go so far as giving out contact information...well, I call bull on that. To top it off, you're claiming that the same Dean that gave you this inside information didn't stand up for you when one member of the admissions committee protested your having called him? Unless this Dean is two-faced jack***** that conspired against you, it would make sense for him to have interjected and admitted to having given out the phone number.

What really happened here?

I was thinking the same thing.

No one will give the list of adcoms are you kidding me, there are crazy people in this world, its better to protect adcoms identity.

i dont think you can fool 2 people in row, let alone in the same office.

its like hacking in the 80's where they would call the people and ask them their ids & passwords and people would just give it away thinking that there is no harm.

PS if it is real, why are getting recommendation letters from the people you might know. its supposed to be mainly from science prof, and research phd's.

 

[youknowthedrill]

Yes, you have been sabotaged...by yourself. Sorry you didn't get in this cycle, maybe next year. The big question is- what are you doing to improve your stats? Was your GPA a 3.3 the other two times you applied, or have you been taking classes to improve it? What kind of dental experience do you have? You come across as a little immature, maybe you need to polish your communication skills? Something you said rubbed the ADCOM the wrong way. Take the Dean's advice and drop it.

 

[peerless218]

I dont understand why you would call during Nov when Dec 1st is just right around the corner?And from the sounds of it, you had an interview.

Also, what have you said to the adcom member over the phone? Were you direct and bold and said something and somewhere down the line of "hi my name is XXX, I heard you're on the ADCOM and I would like you to assist me in getting into dental school?" A lot of people will hint you where the door is, how you open it.....it's a different side of the story.

Someone else had a point, if you needed to make connection, the best ways are either being introduced by other dentsits, or call to ask to shadow and get to know the person better. I dont know, this thread just kind of weird me out a little bit.

 

[Maygyver]

Either you are a troll or you get the worst advice I have ever heard anyone receive, and then listen to it. You do realize that not all schools outside of your state are public right? so your low numbers don't really matter, and you really got a letter from your congressman instead of just getting more dental experience or anything that actually improves your application?

 

[UCLAzy]

trolololololol

i think this was equivalent to a group rick roll?

 

[glo1984]

trolololololol

i think this was equivalent to a group rick roll?

Lol.. I agree.

I think this thread belongs on a fail blog.

 

[MacPreDent]

3.3, 20, A's for my interviews according to the Dean. Only one in state school.

It's funny cuz in a previous thread made by you entitled "How do I get in on the first shot" you claim to have a 2.4 ...
was this thread a waste of time?

 

[Huskk]

No, you haven't been sabotaged.

 

[toothes]

u dun goofed. just stop right now.

 

[fingers]

Thanks for all your posts. I wanted to post this to get other thoughts because it is the strangest situation I have ever been in. Re the comments about validity of actually having the list, the adcom member wasn't even surprised so I guess this has happened before. I have been improving my DAT and GPA over the years as well as shadowing as much as possible.

 

[Santiago12]

You got her number off an AIDS walk list?

 

[gigawatt]

Eh, he didn't pay much attention...he'd just come from buying a speedboat.