have you seen this cnn article?

[Testy McAterson]

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this is interesting... since i know we're all familiar with the crazy waits in the E.D.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/15/er.homicide.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

 

[SensAsian]

whaaat that's a long wait. I've never seen anyone wait that long and we usually bring older people complaining of shortness of breath/chest pains directly into the ED for treatment.

 

[MWillie]

Nurse's fault.

 

[LizzyM]

Ahhem, 49 is not an "older person". However, I agree that a 49 year old woman with 10/10 chest pain should not be in chairs for 2 hours but should be evaluated more promptly.

That said, calling this a homicide is rather shocking. I can see that it could lead to a civil suit but bringing someone up on criminal charges... has anyone ever heard of such a thing??😕

 

[45408]

Yeah, I brought a patient with an extreme headache into the ER that was then sent out to triage, even though my partner argued with the nurse for a few minutes about it. The patient died in the OR later that day while they were operating on his brain aneurysm....

Some hospitals are really pathetic about who gets sent out to triage.

 

[LizzyM]

The local paper has a more detailed story.http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/top/5_1_WA15_CORONER_S10915.htm


Question for Prowler and other EMTs: Do you think that patient complaints are taken more seriously when they call 911 and arrive by ambulance than when they are driven to the hospital by a family member (as this woman was)?

 

[notdeadyet]

Ahhem, 49 is not an "older person".

Agreed. It's also on the young side for a standard heart attack.

But anyone with classic heart attack symptoms are treated immediately. Even folks in their 20's.

 

[SensAsian]

Ahhem, 49 is not an "older person". However, I agree that a 49 year old woman with 10/10 chest pain should not be in chairs for 2 hours but should be evaluated more promptly.

That said, calling this a homicide is rather shocking. I can see that it could lead to a civil suit but bringing someone up on criminal charges... has anyone ever heard of such a thing??😕

i bring anyone that has a wrinkle wit those symptoms straight into the ED. better safe than sorry.

and about the ambulance comment.. at my hospital, usually anyone that comes in through an ambulance is brought straight into the ED and seen by a doctor/nurse immediately.

 

[laurenem]

and about the ambulance comment.. at my hospital, usually anyone that comes in through an ambulance is brought straight into trauma or ED, depending on the severity, but either way they are seen by a doctor/nurse immediately.

same here unless the ED is flooded by ambulances and the patient has no real problem (a nurse will still get the report no matter what's going on though).

 

[riceman04]

whaaat that's a long wait. I've never seen anyone wait that long and we usually bring older people complaining of shortness of breath/chest pains directly into the ED for treatment.

👍

you are right...people who have typical symptoms associated w/ possible MI (like CP, SOB/dyspnea, TIA, etc...) are normally seen as quickly as possible.

 

[RedSHIFT]

once a patient with blood shot eyes was told to wait by a nurse.....turned out the cause of the symptoms was a brain hemorrhage. Patient died in the waiting room.

 

[grindcm]

Ahhem, 49 is not an "older person". However, I agree that a 49 year old woman with 10/10 chest pain should not be in chairs for 2 hours but should be evaluated more promptly.

That said, calling this a homicide is rather shocking. I can see that it could lead to a civil suit but bringing someone up on criminal charges... has anyone ever heard of such a thing??😕

Well, yes, manslaughter comes to mind...unfortunately...Its really a shame that they are referring to it as a homicide, we're human and mistakes are made occasionally... and not only that, i'm sure they will prosecute for damages... I hate the woman died, but people exploit every chance they get to make a little money...in this case probably quite a bit of money

 

[45408]

The local paper has a more detailed story.http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/top/5_1_WA15_CORONER_S10915.htm


Question for Prowler and other EMTs: Do you think that patient complaints are taken more seriously when they call 911 and arrive by ambulance than when they are driven to the hospital by a family member (as this woman was)?

Yeah, I do think so. Most of our patients got rooms right away, whereas walk-ins usually have to start filling out all kinds of paperwork first, unless they're gushing blood. Sometimes the people we bring in though would go right out to triage if they had a completely non-emergent complaint or it was a busy night. In this story's case, she probably would've had her vitals taken, and if they were out of the norm, a med unit (paramedics) would've taken over, started an EKG immediately and figured out she was having an MI. Things probably would've been a lot different.

 

[xTinaBna]

this is interesting... since i know we're all familiar with the crazy waits in the E.D.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/15/er.homicide.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

i work at a hospital not too far from there and i was surprised not to even hear about it till i saw it online. it's so awful what happened to her 🙁

 

[LizzyM]

people exploit every chance they get to make a little money...in this case probably quite a bit of money

😕

EXPLOIT???

Piecing the story together from a variety of news sources: a A woman brought her 49 year old mother to the emergency room with chest pain, shortness of breath and nausea as well as feeling cold (it was July) and having pains in her legs. Within 15 mnutes she'd been seen by a nurse and determined to be "semi-emergent". Almost two HOURS later when her name was called, she was slumped over, unconscious and pulseless.

Are you saying that the family of the deceased woman should not sue for damages? That they are exploiting the system for a little (or a lot of) money?

The lady had coronary artery disease and I would have expected the coroner's jury to find that the woman died of natural causes (not suicide, accidental, homicide or undetermined, those being the other choices). However, it appears that the hospital and its employees may be liable for civil damages and I would not begrudge the family any settlement or jury award they might receive once their case is presented.

 

[Wackie]

The local paper has a more detailed story.http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/top/5_1_WA15_CORONER_S10915.htm


Question for Prowler and other EMTs: Do you think that patient complaints are taken more seriously when they call 911 and arrive by ambulance than when they are driven to the hospital by a family member (as this woman was)?

Usually we take them straight to a room. It kind of depends on how busy that ED is.
The other night, we played transport service and took a regular to the ED who just wasn't "feeling well" so he called 911. He went straight to a room. They weren't too busy.
However, there have been cases when the patient didn't have a severe problem and, because they were busy, was sent to the waiting room. But usually they go straight to a room.


I can't believe those symptoms were overlooked 🙁

 

[63768]

Well, yes, manslaughter comes to mind...unfortunately...Its really a shame that they are referring to it as a homicide, we're human and mistakes are made occasionally... and not only that, i'm sure they will prosecute for damages... I hate the woman died, but people exploit every chance they get to make a little money...in this case probably quite a bit of money

a medical mistake is arguably worse than dying of natural causes. this woman could have lived at least 5-10 years longer (barring any huge cardiac defect) had the triage nurse noticed the classic heart attack symptoms. how would they be exploiting to make money? labeled as semi-emergent with trouble breathing and angina? medical mistakes kill tons of people a year and you're attacking the recently deceased's family.

granted, we don't know both sides and don't know what really happened, but i find it hard that the county coroner would lie.

 

[grindcm]

a medical mistake is arguably worse than dying of natural causes. this woman could have lived at least 5-10 years longer (barring any huge cardiac defect) had the triage nurse noticed the classic heart attack symptoms. how would they be exploiting to make money? labeled as semi-emergent with trouble breathing and angina? medical mistakes kill tons of people a year and you're attacking the recently deceased's family.

granted, we don't know both sides and don't know what really happened, but i find it hard that the county coroner would lie.

Ok, I must apologize for my statements previously... I passed a quick judgement as I skimmed over the article... Like you said, we don't know both sides of the story...but regardless, any fairly decent triage nurse should have recognized these symptoms...

As I stated earlier that most people take advantage of the system I had combined two thought processes...I believe that in this day and age people will exploit the healthcare system whenever a situation to do so presents itself; sometimes certain situations are credible and others not so... Maybe the family should be entitled to damages, but i'm not to be the judge of that...

 

[MossPoh]

the average wait in an american er is pretty long in general..if you get in and out in 3 hours then you are way beyond a good day. We have no idea about a lot of facts involved with this. When I would look at the computer it seemed like 90 percent of all the patients had "Chest pain", "abdominal pain" or "general weakness" labeled....they still had to wait. They were usually taken inside and put on a monitor but I mean..homicide is pushing it. I took a friend in that had a baseball bat to the head.... A BASEBALL BAT...blood all over. He waited 2.5 hours to even get to a room after filling out tons of paperwork. Obviously he was concious and able to fill out the paperwork so he was ok at the time..but there was a puddle of blood on the floor when we were done..it really didn't seem to phase them much. One usually has to have faith that they know how to prioritize in the back...if he wasn't taken in then there was probably someone in worse condition. We had a woman complaining of chest pain in the room nextdoor as a 2 yearold coded and eventually died right next to her...but at the time the doc had more pressing concerns than something that usually turns out being anxiety or heartburn.....I had chest pain, nausea, weakness etc..waited 3 hours. **** happens....unfortuently not every result is what we want.