Having a lot of social problems since becoming a Psychologist. Can anyone relate?

[Groupthink]

It seems as if people are unable to separate my Profession from my Person, and since becoming a Psychologist I am judged based on people's expectations for what they believe a Psychologist is.

For example, I lost a friend this weekend thanks to this. I hold the value that I do not believe in Marriage. I see it as a raw deal for the men involved, where it becomes a way of inviting the Government into one's home, risking losing half your income, house, and children.

My friend's reaction: "WTF, aren't you a therapist? How can you believe such BS and call yourself a professional?"

My response back: "Help me understand how my specialization in treating mental health should govern my personal values and decisions I make for my own life. I'm not pushing my values on my clients. I try to understand what their values are, and treat their mental health within a context that affirms their guiding principles."

He said: "Well if you were a cop and claimed to not be racist, but at home you make racist comments, how could anyone trust you to do your job if you hold personal values that are antithetical to your career?"

And on and on and on. He isn't talking to me anymore. I've had a number of people who expect me to be the following because I am a psychologist:

Anti-Trump
Pro-Feminism
Logical 100% of the time
Unemotional
Always willing to help ("You spend all week helping people why can't you give me an hour?!")
Six-figure income (LMAO)
"Analyzing" them (usually at first contact)

Etc.

Am I alone in experiencing this? It's extremely obnoxious and had led to a lot of ruptures in my friendships.

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[DynamicDidactic]

I've often found, anecdotally, that clinical psychology is much less liberal than other branches of psychology, FWIW (still liberal but not as extreme).

Sound like that person didn't really know you. I have the other problem. I act much differently than the stereotype of someone with a doctorate and people often forget that spent/spend a great deal of my time science-ing.

 

[WisNeuro]

I honestly can't think of a situation where being a clinical psychologist/neuropsychologist has had a negative impact in my social circle.

 

[ClinicalTears]

I don't recall any conflicts between my professional background and friendships. Family members have called out some bad habits and asked in jest "how are you a doctor?".... thx for the guilt trip moms!

Dating on the other hand, I've had some occurrences where some of my matches will say "oh are you gonna analyze me?" leading to some awkwardness.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I usually don’t disclose it until I actually get to know folks on a personal level. Usually people are more interested in what you do than in your title. So I usually say “I work with folks who have autism.” Except then you run the risk of hearing about every family member of theirs who has ASD. Or just “I’m a therapist who works with kids.” Except if I’m not in the mood to talk I say I’m a mortician. I’ve only done that a couple of times- on airplanes with chatty seat mates. Seems that it works pretty well. No one wants to talk about that I guess.

 

[Sanman]

It comes up at times, but I can't say that it has been a regular occurrence in recent years. The most common in the "are you analyzing me/will you analyze me" people and I usually respond with some combination of "Do I come to your job and ask you for free stuff?" and "Sure, where can I send the bill?"
I usually get confused for a physician, which generally works to my benefit.

I response to your friend, my first comment would be, "Who said I was a professional?"
If someone calls me a terrible psychologist because of a belief, I usually respond "That's okay, insurance pays us all the same, great or terrible"
I generally avoid telling most people what I do opting for "I work in healthcare" when being honest and "I work in tech" when I don't want to be in the conversation.

Point is, they can only bother you if you allow them to do so. Being forthright with everyone about things that are not their business rarely leads to anything useful. Learning when to engage and when not to is a professional skill that should make its way into your personal life.

 

[tofubam]

Dating on the other hand, I've had some occurrences where some of my matches will say "oh are you gonna analyze me?" leading to some awkwardness.

The best way to respond to this is to say - "Not unless you want to pay my hourly rate!"

 

[foreverbull]

It seems as if people are unable to separate my Profession from my Person, and since becoming a Psychologist I am judged based on people's expectations for what they believe a Psychologist is.

For example, I lost a friend this weekend thanks to this. I hold the value that I do not believe in Marriage. I see it as a raw deal for the men involved, where it becomes a way of inviting the Government into one's home, risking losing half your income, house, and children.

My friend's reaction: "WTF, aren't you a therapist? How can you believe such BS and call yourself a professional?"

My response back: "Help me understand how my specialization in treating mental health should govern my personal values and decisions I make for my own life. I'm not pushing my values on my clients. I try to understand what their values are, and treat their mental health within a context that affirms their guiding principles."

He said: "Well if you were a cop and claimed to not be racist, but at home you make racist comments, how could anyone trust you to do your job if you hold personal values that are antithetical to your career?"

And on and on and on. He isn't talking to me anymore. I've had a number of people who expect me to be the following because I am a psychologist:

Anti-Trump
Pro-Feminism
Logical 100% of the time
Unemotional
Always willing to help ("You spend all week helping people why can't you give me an hour?!")
Six-figure income (LMAO)
"Analyzing" them (usually at first contact)

Etc.

Am I alone in experiencing this? It's extremely obnoxious and had led to a lot of ruptures in my friendships.

Other things aside, I’m a little confused as to how you’d be considered culturally-competent as a psychologist if you didn’t believe in equal rights for men and women, which is all that feminism is. Plenty of men consider themselves feminists by that definition. Are you confused about the label, or truly in support of patriarchy/male dominance?

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Never had this problem. But I also don't tend to act like a stereotypical psychologist in my off time anyways, just a normal young-ish adult. So that prob helps.

 

[Groupthink]

Other things aside, I’m a little confused as to how you’d be considered culturally-competent as a psychologist if you didn’t believe in equal rights for men and women, which is all that feminism is. Plenty of men consider themselves feminists by that definition. Are you confused about the label, or truly in support of patriarchy/male dominance?

This is exactly the kind of response I am talking about in my post. How do my personal beliefs in any way define my level of competency for working with people of other beliefs?

Your argument does not have any logical internal consistency. It is the equivalent of saying that I need to believe in Holocaust denial in order to work with an anti-semite. It is my ethical mandate to acknowledge whether my beliefs are impeding my ability to do competent work.

And please, you're a Psychologist. You know better than anyone to look at what people do, not what they say. Plenty of "third wave feminists" say "it's about equality" but then take to the streets and social media with some very harmful behaviors towards men. A feminist professor in my graduate program forced all the men to stand during the class, while the women got to sit, to teach us an example. It was at that moment that I stopped buying that all feminists are about equality. There are plenty of people who fly that banner with much more nefarious intentions behind it.

 

[Ollie123]

Can't say that I have encountered most of what you have experienced...at least not to a degree I consider problematic. Although I do fit at least some of the things you describe, so that would be unlikely to bother me. I do occasionally get people making weird statements when they ask what I do, but having a weirdo on the plane talk to me about their personal problems isn't particularly socially impairing.

A feminist professor in my graduate program forced all the men to stand during the class, while the women got to sit, to teach us an example.

Between this and your previous post....where on EARTH did you go to graduate school? I could perhaps understand this as a brief experiential exercise (and even then I don't typically think its effective), but that is really aberrant behavior and I hang out with plenty of hyper-liberal-feminist types.

 

[cara susanna]

It seems as if people are unable to separate my Profession from my Person, and since becoming a Psychologist I am judged based on people's expectations for what they believe a Psychologist is.

For example, I lost a friend this weekend thanks to this. I hold the value that I do not believe in Marriage. I see it as a raw deal for the men involved, where it becomes a way of inviting the Government into one's home

You realize that this contradicts research on the topic, right? Men are on average live longer and are happier after marriage. It's actually women who don't experience this benefit.

More on topic, I do get this a lot when people ask about my job. Nothing kills a conversation faster than telling people that you work with sexual assault survivors!

 

[foreverbull]

This is exactly the kind of response I am talking about in my post. How do my personal beliefs in any way define my level of competency for working with people of other beliefs?

Your argument does not have any logical internal consistency. It is the equivalent of saying that I need to believe in Holocaust denial in order to work with an anti-semite. It is my ethical mandate to acknowledge whether my beliefs are impeding my ability to do competent work.

And please, you're a Psychologist. You know better than anyone to look at what people do, not what they say. Plenty of "third wave feminists" say "it's about equality" but then take to the streets and social media with some very harmful behaviors towards men. A feminist professor in my graduate program forced all the men to stand during the class, while the women got to sit, to teach us an example. It was at that moment that I stopped buying that all feminists are about equality. There are plenty of people who fly that banner with much more nefarious intentions behind it.

It sounds like you're dismissing an entire philosophy that says people should be treated equally regardless of sex/gender based on a bad experience (and the most extreme examples) and not its original definition. Is that logical? That's like saying Christianity, Islam, etc. is bad as whole because of the more extreme, fundamentalist followers.

If practitioners told me they were racist in their downtime, but practiced in a multiculturally-competent way (just thought the training was hogwash), I'd seriously question their ability to practice ethically with ethnic minorities, etc. Implicit biases can come out, and often in ways in which practitioners aren't always aware, which is one factor that may partially explain why ethnic minorities drop out of therapy more often when paired with white therapists (don't recall the authors at the moment, but Sue and Sue talk about it in their Counseling text). Multicultural competence is a baseline, not something we just aspire to in this field.

Yes, I understand your point about separating values from practice. We can and do separate our values from our practice to some extent, but when it comes to multicultural competence, the fine line can start getting blurred if you don't believe that oppression exists for a certain group or think they're inherently inferior. We can't always be aware of what we don't know we're doing.

We disagree on the level of impact that our values have on practice when it comes to multiculturalism (women, minorities, LGBT, etc.), it sounds like, so perhaps that is just going to be where things are.

 

[cbtdoc]

Well, frankly, you sound like kind of a jerk. I like to think that in general people think clinical psychologists should be minimally decent human beings, would not make sweeping generalizations that reek of misogyny, would be basically okay at getting along with people. So with what you said not sounding like those things are true of you, I'd be surprised you were a psychologist also.

 

[psych.meout]

For example, I lost a friend this weekend thanks to this. I hold the value that I do not believe in Marriage. I see it as a raw deal for the men involved, where it becomes a way of inviting the Government into one's home, risking losing half your income, house, and children.

In just this particular case, you're conflating having social problems caused by being a psychologist with social problems caused by voicing your controversial beliefs.

It seems as if people are unable to separate my Profession from my Person, and since becoming a Psychologist I am judged based on people's expectations for what they believe a Psychologist is.

For example, I lost a friend this weekend thanks to this. I hold the value that I do not believe in Marriage. I see it as a raw deal for the men involved, where it becomes a way of inviting the Government into one's home, risking losing half your income, house, and children.

My friend's reaction: "WTF, aren't you a therapist? How can you believe such BS and call yourself a professional?"

My response back: "Help me understand how my specialization in treating mental health should govern my personal values and decisions I make for my own life. I'm not pushing my values on my clients. I try to understand what their values are, and treat their mental health within a context that affirms their guiding principles."

He said: "Well if you were a cop and claimed to not be racist, but at home you make racist comments, how could anyone trust you to do your job if you hold personal values that are antithetical to your career?"

And on and on and on. He isn't talking to me anymore. I've had a number of people who expect me to be the following because I am a psychologist:

Anti-Trump
Pro-Feminism
Logical 100% of the time
Unemotional
Always willing to help ("You spend all week helping people why can't you give me an hour?!")
Six-figure income (LMAO)
"Analyzing" them (usually at first contact)

Etc.

Am I alone in experiencing this? It's extremely obnoxious and had led to a lot of ruptures in my friendships.

I'd agree that there isn't necessarily an onus to hold any particular political, social, or philosophical views simply by virtue of being a psychologist.

That said, we still need to be cognizant of how there isn't necessarily a firewall between our personal and professional lives, as much as we would like to think or believe there to be. Yes, you may diligently and conscientiously avoid letting your personal beliefs and perspectives bleed over into affecting your professional practice, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it never happens.

There's a wealth of research in myriad domains about the conflict between what people say they do vs. what they actually do. It's also not necessarily the case that this conflict indicates that people are lying about their behaviors. In many cases, it's more that we aren't unbiased in our observations of ourselves, have imperfect memories, are subject to attentional biases, and are vulnerable to other factors that prevent us from realizing that this conflict exists between beliefs about our behaviors and our actual behaviors themselves.

Furthermore, things may be so subtle that we may not even realize that we are doing things differently when our implicit biases come into play. E.g., if you have a patient who holds similar beliefs to your own personal beliefs, you might unknowingly be friendlier to them, exert more effort to help them, or just have a more positive impression of them than someone who doesn't hold these views or holds contradictory views.

 

[Sanman]

In just this particular case, you're conflating having social problems caused by being a psychologist with social problems caused by voicing your controversial beliefs.



I'd agree that there isn't necessarily an onus to hold any particular political, social, or philosophical views simply by virtue of being a psychologist.

That said, we still need to be cognizant of how there isn't necessarily a firewall between our personal and professional lives, as much as we would like to think or believe there to be. Yes, you may diligently and conscientiously avoid letting your personal beliefs and perspectives bleed over into affecting your professional practice, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it never happens.

There's a wealth of research in myriad domains about the conflict between what people say they do vs. what they actually do. It's also not necessarily the case that this conflict indicates that people are lying about their behaviors. In many cases, it's more that we aren't unbiased in our observations of ourselves, have imperfect memories, are subject to attentional biases, and are vulnerable to other factors that prevent us from realizing that this conflict exists between beliefs about our behaviors and our actual behaviors themselves.

Furthermore, things may be so subtle that we may not even realize that we are doing things differently when our implicit biases come into play. E.g., if you have a patient who holds similar beliefs to your own personal beliefs, you might unknowingly be friendlier to them, exert more effort to help them, or just have a more positive impression of them than someone who doesn't hold these views or holds contradictory views.

Agreed on the first point. The second is a slippery slope. We all have personal biases and no one treats two clients EXACTLY the same. Being cognizant of such issues is important, but you can't realistically analyze every client interaction you have. In the real world, we all do the best we can. That said, if there is feedback that personal views are impacting your practice consistently, it is time to pay attention to whether your own boundaries are appropriate as a therapist.

 

[deleted343839]

1. No, being a psychologist hasn't meaningfully affected my friendships or my social life.
2. Your attitudes might seem less incongruous to others if you were, say, a computer programmer or a plumber, but they would be no less off-putting.
3. If you're finding a lot of difficulty in interpersonal relationships, consider seeking your own therapy.

 

[MTLDR]

I honestly can't think of a situation where being a clinical psychologist/neuropsychologist has had a negative impact in my social circle.

Agreed. It has been a benefit in my social world. People tend to be really interested to hear I'm a psychologist and it often leads to fruitful, deep conversations at parties. I find they implicitly trust me more and open up more quickly.

 

[Groupthink]

It sounds like you're dismissing an entire philosophy that says people should be treated equally regardless of sex/gender based on a bad experience (and the most extreme examples) and not its original definition. Is that logical? That's like saying Christianity, Islam, etc. is bad as whole because of the more extreme, fundamentalist followers.

If practitioners told me they were racist in their downtime, but practiced in a multiculturally-competent way (just thought the training was hogwash), I'd seriously question their ability to practice ethically with ethnic minorities, etc. Implicit biases can come out, and often in ways in which practitioners aren't always aware, which is one factor that may partially explain why ethnic minorities drop out of therapy more often when paired with white therapists (don't recall the authors at the moment, but Sue and Sue talk about it in their Counseling text). Multicultural competence is a baseline, not something we just aspire to in this field.

Yes, I understand your point about separating values from practice. We can and do separate our values from our practice to some extent, but when it comes to multicultural competence, the fine line can start getting blurred if you don't believe that oppression exists for a certain group or think they're inherently inferior. We can't always be aware of what we don't know we're doing.

We disagree on the level of impact that our values have on practice when it comes to multiculturalism (women, minorities, LGBT, etc.), it sounds like, so perhaps that is just going to be where things are.

I never, ever said that I "don't believe oppression exists". I simply said that I am not pro-feminism.

This is the perfect example of the problem I'm facing. I state that I do not support feminism or identify as a feminist, and I am immediately attacked by others stating "how can you be a therapist yet you don't believe in equality (foreverbull), are a misogynist (cbtdoc), and not believing in oppression (psych.meout) etc."

This is like me saying "I'm not Catholic" and people immediately assuming I am full of sin.

In people's minds "im not a feminist" immediately translates to "I don't believe in equality or oppression".

Why is it that I can't believe in equality and see oppression, but not identify as a feminist at the same time? Feminism and it's history presents certain elements, one of which is the named extremism, that I personally do not agree with and therefore I do not wish to identify with. That doesn't suddenly mean I am a misogynist.

Wanting equality and reducing oppression is not all there is to feminism. I can want these things and not be a feminist.

Again, I do community service and try to help those in need in my daily life. Does that mean I'm a Catholic?

 

[psych.meout]

I never, ever said that I "don't believe oppression exists". I simply said that I am not pro-feminism.

This is the perfect example of the problem I'm facing. I state that I do not support feminism or identify as a feminist, and I am immediately attacked by others stating "how can you be a therapist yet you don't believe in equality (foreverbull), are a misogynist (cbtdoc), and not believing in oppression (psych.meout) etc."

This is like me saying "I'm not Catholic" and people immediately assuming I am full of sin.

In people's minds "im not a feminist" immediately translates to "I don't believe in equality or oppression".

Why is it that I can't believe in equality and see oppression, but not identify as a feminist at the same time? Feminism and it's history presents certain elements, one of which is the named extremism, that I personally do not agree with and therefore I do not wish to identify with. That doesn't suddenly mean I am a misogynist.

Wanting equality and reducing oppression is not all there is to feminism. I can want these things and not be a feminist.

Again, I do community service and try to help those in need in my daily life. Does that mean I'm a Catholic?

Please cite where I accused you of "not believing in oppression." Whatever that means.

I'll wait...

 

[foreverbull]

I never, ever said that I "don't believe oppression exists". I simply said that I am not pro-feminism.

This is the perfect example of the problem I'm facing. I state that I do not support feminism or identify as a feminist, and I am immediately attacked by others stating "how can you be a therapist yet you don't believe in equality (foreverbull), are a misogynist (cbtdoc), and not believing in oppression (psych.meout) etc."

This is like me saying "I'm not Catholic" and people immediately assuming I am full of sin.

In people's minds "im not a feminist" immediately translates to "I don't believe in equality or oppression".

Why is it that I can't believe in equality and see oppression, but not identify as a feminist at the same time? Feminism and it's history presents certain elements, one of which is the named extremism, that I personally do not agree with and therefore I do not wish to identify with. That doesn't suddenly mean I am a misogynist.

Wanting equality and reducing oppression is not all there is to feminism. I can want these things and not be a feminist.

Again, I do community service and try to help those in need in my daily life. Does that mean I'm a Catholic?

I never called you a misogynist, just to make that very clear so there is no misunderstanding moving forward. I asked for clarification about whether you were confused about the feminism label in my first post. Feel free to respond to that. Pro-feminism to me is literally just believing in equality. Sounds like you are again using extremists to dismiss feminism as a whole and it sounds like despite the label’s meaning, you don’t like what a select few who espouse the label say and do.

 

[WisNeuro]

I never called you a misogynist, just to make that very clear so there is no misunderstanding moving forward. I asked for clarification about whether you were confused about the feminism label in my first post. Feel free to respond to that. Pro-feminism to me is literally just believing in equality. Sounds like you are again using extremists to dismiss feminism as a whole and it sounds like despite the label’s meaning, you don’t like what a select few who espouse the label say and do.

How dare you falsely lump me into a monolithic category based on one thing? Now hold my beer while I lump a bunch of people into one extremist group.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I simply said that I am not pro-feminism.

I state that I do not support feminism or identify as a feminist

Honest question: can you describe what you support/believe vis a vis women’s equality? You have told us what you do not support several times. Can you tell us what you do support? It might help the conversation.

 

[ellenew]

How dare you falsely lump me into a monolithic category based on one thing? Now hold my beer while I lump a bunch of people into one extremist group.

Your comments literally are the best

 

[WisNeuro]

Your comments literally are the best

Aww, you're gonna make me blush.

 

[Divinest Sense]

Is it possible that these social problems existed before you became a psychologist, but since becoming a psychologist you have noticed them? Perhaps people are more likely to voice their concerns about your relationship or you are more cognizant of your interpersonal difficulties?

It sounds like these conversations could be had whether or not you were a psychologist, but others are just using that fact as another piece of argument against your... er... views which contradict theirs.

Might you also have a more argumentative style in these conversations which some people don't expect a psychologist to have?

I don't think it is that hard to imagine why people would be a little surprised that a psychologist would be pro-Trump (mocking disabilities, acting as if those who are more educated are ruining things, and being... well... not a great friend of science or statistics). And anecdotally, I know very few psychologists (okay... I don't think I know any) who would say they don't subscribe to feminism.

If most lawyers I knew believed XYZ, I would expect the next lawyer I meet to believe XYZ unless I had information which would suggest otherwise. That's just... well... normal. It doesn't mean that lawyer must believe those things, but it is reasonable for me to be a little surprised.

I also don't see some beliefs as compatible with general regard for the mental well-being of others. But maybe that's just me.

 

[psych.meout]

Man, you’ve really aggravated the psychology thought police (tm).

Thanks for spreading your unique blend of snarky misinformation and poor training to this thread as well.

 

[psych.meout]

You’re welcome. I was merely pointing how totalitarian feti****s don’t really like it when people have ideas/thoughts different form their own.

But yeah, way to bring my personal training into this. I bet you’re an amazing psychologist. Please oh righteous one, tell me how to live/practice/think.

1984 is that way —>

You're as bad as OP is with strawmanning other posters and putting words in their mouths.

 

[foreverbull]

Man, you’ve really aggravated the psychology thought police (tm).

You don't like it when folks respond to you with sarcasm or snide remarks (I don't like it either when it happens), but you yourself use sarcasm and have told someone else to "chill" when you didn't agree with what he said (i.e. in the other thread when @WisNeuro disagreed with you). Telling folks to "chill" when they're having a civil discussion seems inappropriate at best, patronizing and dismissive at worst. I'm not justifying others using sarcasm and patronizing people, but I've seen you dish it out just as much in multiple threads.

Many people in this thread merely responded without disagreeing, and/or presented their opinions (in a calm way) that just didn't necessarily fit with the OP's. It was the OP who started throwing out labels like "misogyny" and alleging that I "attacked" the OP by disagreeing, making the whole thread sound more extreme than it is. To be fair, there were some not-so-great responses in here.

I would still welcome the OP to share what he/she/they believe with regard to gender/sex and rights, since all we know is that
1. OP is NOT a feminist.
2. OP thinks all feminists are radicals, apparently.

People are free to have their opinions in here. And others are free to disagree and express it.

 

[super.ego]

Honest question: can you describe what you support/believe vis a vis women’s equality? You have told us what you do not support several times. Can you tell us what you do support? It might help the conversation.

Still waiting for Groupthink to respond to this question...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: As I mentioned in the "coddling" thread, let's all try to remain civil and professional in our responses. Thanks.