Head and neck anatomy sucks

[zz13216]

With the arm, I could easily visualize every muscle, artery, and nerve. Head and neck is a completely different animal. Is it just me, or is really tough to visualize where everything is in three dimensions? I can't wait to be done with this unit.

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[jdh71]

 

[sylvanthus]

I feel your pain. I remember our cadaver must have died in a prone position, because the face was all coagulated blood and really messed up. It was extremely hard to learn off of.

But, never fear, just memorize this stuff and then forget it a few weeks later.

 

[Rocher]

With the arm, I could easily visualize every muscle, artery, and nerve. Head and neck is a completely different animal. Is it just me, or is really tough to visualize where everything is in three dimensions? I can't wait to be done with this unit.

You'll get it with time. We just had our head and neck exam today, I felt the same way as you at first but towards the end it was a lot easier to visualize.

 

[dentalpath]

Imagine having to take it for a year! I am a Dental Student.. we have head and neck anatomy for a full year in conjunction with the rest of the body...its nuts...

 

[tiedyeddog]

Imagine having to take it for a year! I am a Dental Student.. we have head and neck anatomy for a full year in conjunction with the rest of the body...its nuts...

haha, that sucks.

 

[Morsetlis]

Imagine having to take it for a year! I am a Dental Student.. we have head and neck anatomy for a full year in conjunction with the rest of the body...its nuts...

I'm curious about this. Do you guys have to learn minutiae like how many degrees the cranial and caudal limbs of the midgut turn during development of the fetus, or which layer of fascia in the testes correspond to which in the abdomen, or portocaval anastomoses and collateral circulation?

 

[dentalpath]

Morsetlis, currently on the spinal cord, moving down...will let you know when we get to the abdomen. From looking and reading your post, I feel like you have embryology in conjunction with anatomy...does your school go by systems?? Cuz for me histo + physio wont start until later this sem..while anatomy pretty much will continue for the rest of the year...not to mention..there's a whole another class called Dental Anatomy that is completely separate from anatomy and keeps going for the entire year ....

 

[GoSpursGo]

Head and neck anatomy sucks

Indeed.

 

[Morsetlis]

Morsetlis, currently on the spinal cord, moving down...will let you know when we get to the abdomen. From looking and reading your post, I feel like you have embryology in conjunction with anatomy...does your school go by systems?? Cuz for me histo + physio wont start until later this sem..while anatomy pretty much will continue for the rest of the year...not to mention..there's a whole another class called Dental Anatomy that is completely separate from anatomy and keeps going for the entire year ....

I'm pretty sure there's only one department at my school and they take turn lecturing on whatever the hell they feel like.

First term is Anatomy/Embryology + Histology/Cell Bio + Biochem. We do things by regional anatomy: back, upper limb, thorax, abdomen, pelvis, perineum, lower limb, head and neck.

Second term is Physiology + Neuroanatomy + Immunology.

Then we get Behavioral Science and all the abnormal stuff in second year.

I'm just wondering how much of the whole-body anatomy, physiology, etc people in dental school, podiatry school, optometry school, audiology school, etc have to know. Is it exhaustive like medical school, and then you focus down, or is it generalized, and then you focus down?

And, of course, even in med school it's not really "exhaustive" until you learn how it looks surgically, in live people, with relevant fascia and fat and tissues and clinical manipulations, but still...

 

[giantswing]

I'm pretty sure there's only one department at my school and they take turn lecturing on whatever the hell they feel like.

I think we go to the same school. I concur about head and neck. I study and study, and still know - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

[willen101383]

You guys will get there...I remember being like WTF is going on in this head. You need to learn it all before you can put it all together and understand it. Pterygopalatine ganglion otic ganglion submandibular ganglion superior cervical ganglion. Just remember if an elderly patient has a sphenopalatine artery bleed they dieeeeeeeee or something. bahhhhhhhhhhhhhh that **** sucks.

Next year you will sit here like I am now and laugh inside at the first years as the deal with this crap. Its a rite of passage my friends! There is a reason my school put the white coat ceremony after head and neck and I suspect many other schools do also.

Speaking of which cant wait for the "Ugh I am too cool and too much of a douche to go to my white coat ceremony, I will work for free and I do not want to be associated with you money grubbers who want to use your white coat to separate yourself from the common folk" threads to start.

 

[Med2015]

With the arm, I could easily visualize every muscle, artery, and nerve. Head and neck is a completely different animal. Is it just me, or is really tough to visualize where everything is in three dimensions? I can't wait to be done with this unit.

You're not alone.

That said, cross sections are your friend.

 

[dentalpath]

I'm pretty sure there's only one department at my school and they take turn lecturing on whatever the hell they feel like.

First term is Anatomy/Embryology + Histology/Cell Bio + Biochem. We do things by regional anatomy: back, upper limb, thorax, abdomen, pelvis, perineum, lower limb, head and neck.

Second term is Physiology + Neuroanatomy + Immunology.

Then we get Behavioral Science and all the abnormal stuff in second year.

I'm just wondering how much of the whole-body anatomy, physiology, etc people in dental school, podiatry school, optometry school, audiology school, etc have to know. Is it exhaustive like medical school, and then you focus down, or is it generalized, and then you focus down?

And, of course, even in med school it's not really "exhaustive" until you learn how it looks surgically, in live people, with relevant fascia and fat and tissues and clinical manipulations, but still...

I guess since med students don't (at least in their first + second year) go into head and neck anatomy as intensively as we do..I doubt I will need to know the lower limbs like I need to know the head and neck...after all I will be looking at patients in dental clinic in my third year...and for sure will need to know what structures in the face are where...every minute detail of the head and neck..we dentists need to know...second sem of this year..had craniofacial biology, neuronatomy, organ systems etc etc etc...so I believe the basic science years..are pretty much the same in both (except we also have to be practicing our hand skills so add 8 more hours of lab every week for first two weeks)...the diversion happens in third year, when physicians go for rotations and we get to the clinics..

 

[plauto]

Head and neck anatomy is what made me fall in love with what otolaryngologists/head and neck surgeons do. It certainly makes you understand how the term ENT is such an oversimplification.

 

[dentalpath]

I'm pretty sure there's only one department at my school and they take turn lecturing on whatever the hell they feel like.

First term is Anatomy/Embryology + Histology/Cell Bio + Biochem. We do things by regional anatomy: back, upper limb, thorax, abdomen, pelvis, perineum, lower limb, head and neck.

Second term is Physiology + Neuroanatomy + Immunology.

Then we get Behavioral Science and all the abnormal stuff in second year.

I'm just wondering how much of the whole-body anatomy, physiology, etc people in dental school, podiatry school, optometry school, audiology school, etc have to know. Is it exhaustive like medical school, and then you focus down, or is it generalized, and then you focus down?

And, of course, even in med school it's not really "exhaustive" until you learn how it looks surgically, in live people, with relevant fascia and fat and tissues and clinical manipulations, but still...

I guess since med students don't (at least in their first + second year) go into head and neck anatomy as intensively as we do..I doubt I will need to know the lower limbs like I need to know the head and neck...after all I will be looking at patients in dental clinic in my third year...and for sure will need to know what structures in the face are where...every minute detail of the head and neck..we dentists need to know...second sem of this year..had craniofacial biology, neuronatomy, organ systems etc etc etc...so I believe the basic science years..are pretty much the same in both (except we also have to be practicing our hand skills so add 8 more hours of lab every week for first two weeks)...the diversion happens in third year, when physicians go for rotations and we get to the clinics..

 

[Lbgem]

I study and study, and still know - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Dude. This. I'm totally fried right now. Maybe it'll all make sense in the morning. It's like rinse and repeat and hope something sticks.

 

[NickNaylor]

Dude. This. I'm totally fried right now. Maybe it'll all make sense in the morning. It's like rinse and repeat and hope something sticks.

This is pretty much my strategy. Each time I go through the book, a presentation, etc. a little more material sticks. After doing this a few times I retain quite a bit of material; for the rest/really detailed stuff I just sit down and memorize it.

 

[Lbgem]

This is pretty much my strategy. Each time I go through the book, a presentation, etc. a little more material sticks. After doing this a few times I retain quite a bit of material; for the rest/really detailed stuff I just sit down and memorize it.

I'm beginning to like you . It was daunting at first, but I do find I pick up bits and pieces every time I go through it. Though I keep questioning why I'm not just picking it up the first time I heard it/review it/etc. But then I remind myself the goal is to do well yes, but worst case scenario is just pass the classes.

I miss your old picture though .

 

[Sheldor]

I guess since med students don't (at least in their first + second year) go into head and neck anatomy as intensively as we do..

I don't know that this is true. At my school we had to know everything there is to know about the anatomy of the head and neck, save detailed histology of teeth.

 

[giantswing]

I don't know that this is true. At my school we had to know everything there is to know about the anatomy of the head and neck, save detailed histology of teeth.

BAH! We have that too! At the same time!!!!

 

[JimmyChitwood]

It's that or you could memorize the pharmacodynamics, kinetics, indications, contraindications, interactions, and relevant diseases for ~100 drugs. 1st year sucks a mean one, but you'll look back and yearn for that megakaryoblast or the branches of maxillary artery.

 

[dentalpath]

I don't know that this is true. At my school we had to know everything there is to know about the anatomy of the head and neck, save detailed histology of teeth.

Sheldor, at my school the lowest we go in the human body is right below the pelvis/groin area.

In a year long course, 4 months or so are dedicated to the other organ systems (seperate class starting in the Spring)..8 months are probably on the head and neck alone (head and neck anatomy in the fall + neuro anatomy in the spring)...its insanely detailed..

 

[gravitywave]

It's that or you could memorize the pharmacodynamics, kinetics, indications, contraindications, interactions, and relevant diseases for ~100 drugs. 1st year sucks a mean one, but you'll look back and yearn for that megakaryoblast or the branches of maxillary artery.

really? you did this? In 2.5 weeks? I say this because we did head and neck in 2.5 weeks, plus a bunch of histo, physio, embryo, and PE skills at the same time. The difficulty of M2>M1 is over-rated.

I didn't like anatomy. Except head and neck, which was the only cool part.

 

[penguinophile]

There is a really good website for learning that anatomy. It is run by a radiology resident, it is totally free and it will help you learn not just the anatomy, but the way it looks on imaging, which is what you will be using anyway.

www.headneckbrainspine.com

 

[Morsetlis]

There is a really good website for learning that anatomy. It is run by a radiology resident, it is totally free and it will help you learn not just the anatomy, but the way it looks on imaging, which is what you will be using anyway.

www.headneckbrainspine.com

Hopefully there's some abdomen, thorax, and pelvis in there too, lol..

 

[Warped Apostle]

I admit this area can be really confusing, especially based on a lack of previous knowledge of the anatomy. For instance we all have some basic knowledge of the limbs due to sports, weightlifting, or common trauma such as fractured bones of the limbs. However with the neck we forget that it is the highway for the communication between the head and thorax and therefore are taken by surprise with how much "stuff" is there.
I have always enjoyed this region of the anatomy due to its complexity. Sometimes understanding the embryology (pharyngeal arches) can help create some order to the madness. Good luck.

 

[isoquin]

yes, head and neck is a bit more difficult to visualize, mostly because you're not working with muscles that are a foot long. Take your time with it. I also think you would benefit from having a friend with a good dissection show your around theirs.

 

[JimmyChitwood]

really? you did this? In 2.5 weeks? I say this because we did head and neck in 2.5 weeks, plus a bunch of histo, physio, embryo, and PE skills at the same time. The difficulty of M2>M1 is over-rated.

I didn't like anatomy. Except head and neck, which was the only cool part.

Obviously that's not the only class we take...that's on top of path, genetics, and clinical medicine. I would say material-wise, M2 is far heavier. I'm definitely enjoying it more, as it is far more clinical and relevant. My point is, there's always someone worse off. A man once complained about not having a pair of shoes until he met a man with no feet.

 

[lildave2586]

Head and neck anatomy is what made me fall in love with what otolaryngologists/head and neck surgeons do. It certainly makes you understand how the term ENT is such an oversimplification.

Otolaryngology - best field in medicine. Go ENT!

 

[Evergrey]

Hopefully there's some abdomen, thorax, and pelvis in there too, lol..

Well, the person is a neuroradiologist, soo..

We haven't done head and neck anatomy yet at my school, but anatomy is my favorite class so far and I am definitely interested in ENT. We'll see if that changes come head and neck time!

 

[link2swim06]

With the arm, I could easily visualize every muscle, artery, and nerve. Head and neck is a completely different animal. Is it just me, or is really tough to visualize where everything is in three dimensions? I can't wait to be done with this unit.

OP you need to live in lab for this unit.

Seriously, its the only way anything will make any sense, you need to be able to see and touch it. After a million hours in lab, you will own it.

 

[Kevin Baker]

I'm pretty sure there's only one department at my school and they take turn lecturing on whatever the hell they feel like.

First term is Anatomy/Embryology + Histology/Cell Bio + Biochem. We do things by regional anatomy: back, upper limb, thorax, abdomen, pelvis, perineum, lower limb, head and neck.

Second term is Physiology + Neuroanatomy + Immunology.

Then we get Behavioral Science and all the abnormal stuff in second year.

I'm just wondering how much of the whole-body anatomy, physiology, etc people in dental school, podiatry school, optometry school, audiology school, etc have to know. Is it exhaustive like medical school, and then you focus down, or is it generalized, and then you focus down?

And, of course, even in med school it's not really "exhaustive" until you learn how it looks surgically, in live people, with relevant fascia and fat and tissues and clinical manipulations, but still...

We have our anatomy classes and labs with pod, dental students and med students, and we all learn the same material (including that embryology minutiae). Dentists are gone now as we are doing the leg and foot, and I think DPM leaves when we do head and neck (not sure on that). Test averages differ between the schools, but the material we are expected to know doesn't. Hope that helps.

 

[mrwesticles]

Yeah, that's why the head and neck have so many damned triangles all over it.

Anatomists sat down with the neck and shook their heads, thinking "wtf i dunno" then drew triangles all over it.

 

[pkwraith]

I think NetAnatomy is pretty crucial for help with visualization and identification, especially in combination with Acland. I probably get 4x mileage out of that then the actual cadavers.

 

[Geekchick921]

There are just so many freakin' nerves...

 

[Total180]

Totally and completely agree. I think the reason is that it isn't "compartmentalized" like the upper and lower limbs. It is like everything is all over the place and disorganized! The ONLY redeeming quality is the fact that the muscles are all named for their attachments. My brain feels like scrambled eggs. 2 weeks until I can get this stupid test over with.

 

[bomgd3]

I actually hated most of anatomy but loved head and neck. One thing that I found incredibly helpful was to start with a good foundation by learning all structures and relationships of the skull.

 

[lildave2586]

Totally and completely agree. I think the reason is that it isn't "compartmentalized" like the upper and lower limbs. It is like everything is all over the place and disorganized! The ONLY redeeming quality is the fact that the muscles are all named for their attachments. My brain feels like scrambled eggs. 2 weeks until I can get this stupid test over with.

Compared to the abdomen the head and neck is very organized.

 

[TallScrubs]

Just finished our head and neck exams today.

I must say, I feel like the 'daunted' head and neck exam (although tough) is built up in much the same way that my high school teachers built up o-chem.