Help. Expelled - Misconduct

[ShireCheshire]

I know this is an old thread, but the truth behind this story has come out in Canadian news and I thought it might illuminate the confusion that is this thread:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...after-caught-forging-mds-signatures-1.2496548

Not sure how " a few absences " = forging physician signatures and fabricating notes. If this is actually the OP, it's time for a different career.

Have you thought about politics? Toronto may be looking for a new mayor sometime soon.

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[mulberry]

Not sure how " a few absences " = forging physician signatures and fabricating notes. If this is actually dexterthe, it's time for a different career.

Wow, makes perfect sense

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

Dang. Screwing up that bad after matching and just before graduating is just horrible. I feel bad for the guy but also agree with the schools action.

 

[deleted500612]

Detailed report of the incident from the university here:

http://cpsm.mb.ca/cjj39alckF30a/wp-content/uploads/20131216Mancuso.pdf

 

[Etorphine]

Wow. What an end to a SDN thread.

 

[IlDestriero]

I think that was part of the problem. There was no incentive to do that as i wouldnt have required a lengthy enrollment.

Also, I think they were embarrassed that they had some responsibility for what happened.

Finally, I think there is some sick side of them that get their kicks from expelling students near the end. If you read legal literature, this comes up often. My case was by far the closest to graduation that has ever occurred.

I don't think they enjoyed doing it, but from the update with the true facts, you earned what you got, and I would go so far as to say any medical school would have done the same. Too bad you didn't just graduate in the summer and repeat your elective that you fabricated.

 

[JM26]

What a mess...Wonder if he did end up going to the Caribbean for school.

 

[stlrams22]

Got what he deserved.

 

[UoCfin]

Well, Dexter, you could try something like Criminal Forensics, maybe blood splatter analysis or something.

FUNNY GUY...Der...I just finished watching Dexter

 

[Winged Scapula]

Wow what an intriguing turn of events.

Now unfortunately I'm wondering what was going through his mind when he missed 11 of 12 shifts? Did he think since it was fourth-year he could get away with it or just hated the rotation?

 

[Doctor Strange]

 

[Xenoblade]

Quote from document: "Besides medicine, in medical school I learned to lie, cheat and steal, but, I don’t want to be a coward too."

I am sorry you were expelled. But thank you for creating this topic. At the very least, I will learn from your mistakes.

 

[jakeislove]

Wow~

 

[bunionberry]

Holy hell.

 

[JJArms22]

FUNNY GUY...Der...I just finished watching Dexter

Watching it now haha. Sounds like this Dexter doesn't follow a "code."

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Hey, OP, you still around?

 

[Kaustikos]

I know this is an old thread, but the truth behind this story has come out in Canadian news and I thought it might illuminate the confusion that is this thread:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...after-caught-forging-mds-signatures-1.2496548

Ha. Omg there's the truth. You forged signatures and didn't go to 12 shifts? How in the world did you suspect you wouldn't get caught? I know this thread is old but I'm glad to hear the truth. I also don't understand the reasoning behind NOT showing up for rotations?

 

[IlDestriero]

Ha. Omg there's the truth. You forged signatures and didn't go to 12 shifts? How in the world did you suspect you wouldn't get caught? I know this thread is old but I'm glad to hear the truth. I also don't understand the reasoning behind NOT showing up for rotations?

It was only 11 of 12 shifts. Could 'a happened to anyone...
It would be truly epic if he fabricated LORs as well and matched into EM.

 

[Rendar5]

Hey, OP, you still around?

he's not. came onto SDN shortly back at the time of this thread and no other posts. And if he did still come on under a different name for anonymity, he would certainly want to keep it =p. too bad we couldn't confront him at the time.

 

[Anastomoses]

Not everyone thinks draconian punishments are appropriate and in line with their philosophical beliefs. We had a third yr resident booted out of our residency program in family medicine for forging signatures (attending signatures) on deliveries. He was considered a capable resident with a good knowledge base. It took him awhile but he ended up in another program and I'm pretty sure he has graduated by now and is practicing somewhere. I think he lost a yr. Maybe it was two. Chances at Redemption are part of some people's core beliefs with some of it rooted in religion.

forging signatures?? that's not only dishonest but so incredibly stupid and gives away the person's poor and risky behavior. I'm not really sure I could be convinced such an individual is not incorrigible or damaged.

 

[KurtPlisskin]

he's not. came onto SDN shortly back at the time of this thread and no other posts. And if he did still come on under a different name for anonymity, he would certainly want to keep it =p. too bad we couldn't confront him at the time.

He's still around. You can see in his profile he's been viewing this thread today.

 

[Kahreek]

I don't know the answer to that. Suing is often a poor choice when it is easier to roll with the punches, hold your nose and part ways in medicine. If they don't get you one way they can get you another way just as you may be able to cause trouble. The trick is to part ways as professionally and amicably as possible with both realizing that it is not in either parties interest to burn everything to the ground. You dont want to be known as someone who calls in a bunch of lawyers as it may spook any future associates. There was a Hospitalist who was let go from the previous hospital I worked at who brought in the lawyers after being let go supposedly for performing procedures without being privelged for those procedures. As a result the director instructed that no letters of recommendation be given as there was an active lawsuit. Future employers are going to want 3 letters from the previous place of employment. In a situation like that you want the least amount of drama possible. Often it is possible to make something positive out of a bad situation and salvage an amicable parting of ways with both sides ablt to save at least some face.

this may be true for jobs and residence, to some degree, but he is/was a 4th year med student, he cant just go to the school in the neighboor city and ask to be enrolled to finish his last week.

 

[deleted480308]

this may be true for jobs and residence, to some degree, but he is/was a 4th year med student, he cant just go to the school in the neighboor city and ask to be enrolled to finish his last week.

Which is why 4th year is a really bad time to forge signatures while skipping large portions of your medical training


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[Kahreek]

he must have been seriously affected if he thought forging signatures for a couple weeks work was a reasonable idea.

 

[deleted307836]

Over the years I've read many threads on SDN in which people were punished severely or "singled out" for very minor issues. This thread is definitely a good reminder that there is likely more to the story, despite the user's insistence that there isn't. A lot of these horror stories gave me anxiety when first coming across them.

 

[Patassa]

My favorite part of all of this,
"The College of Physicians and Surgeons ordered Mancuso to pay $2,080 for the costs of the investigation into his misconduct."
Good form.

 

[Akali]

Dang. Screwing up that bad after matching and just before graduating is just horrible. I feel bad for the guy but also agree with the schools action.

Why feel bad for him, though? You think he got what he deserved, right? Not only did he do what he did to get expelled, he allegedly then came here making posts asking for advice while completely leaving out the fact that he was caught forging signatures. Guy's an idiot. Shouldn't be a doctor or involved in managing anyone's health in any manner IMO

 

[redhotpokerb]

welp! this must suck! 4 years of medical school. all these hard work. Down the drain. =.=;
Sorry dude. Change career!

 

[GangaMaster]

 

[darkjedi]

Oh boy, I had read the article when it first came out, never realized that the person would be so bold to post about it on SDN too. Too good.

 

[IlDestriero]

This thread was a good example of how what a poster says happened and what actually happened are often not even close to the same. The posts from dismissed residents are the same. "I was doing OK, but one guy had it out for me and I got fired. Can I sue them?". Yeah, sure.
And the responses are around 50% lawyer up...
You don't get canned on a whim. And if you do get fired, you either did something so bad they think you're dangerous, sexually harassed a couple people, or were deemed untrainable by the faculty.

 

[Psai]

hahaha there is some crazy rationalization coming from the op

 

[MerickManual]

OMG. I rewatched that about four times in a row and still cracked up and nearly lost it every time! The ending is priceless.

 

[Venko]

Hey that's not nice. We don't know what exactly happened. Innocent until proven guilty here.

For what its worth, he was found "guilty," and it was appealed, and he was found, "guilty," again. So...

 

[wiloghby]

Over the years I've read many threads on SDN in which people were punished severely or "singled out" for very minor issues. This thread is definitely a good reminder that there is likely more to the story, despite the user's insistence that there isn't. A lot of these horror stories gave me anxiety when first coming across them.

Actually, OP never directly responded to anyone who insisted that there must be more to the story. That alone spoke volumes to me, even before the update confirming our suspicions were true!

My other thought:

So, OP misled his school and forged TWELVE shift reports along with signatures on top of that? I am just shocked he would lie on an anonymous internet forum and paint himself as the victim.

I'd bet money that OP is now a car salesman working off that debt -- or best case scenario maybe a real estate agent.

 

[wiloghby]

I'd also like to add that this is the most incredible thread I've read on here in a long time.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I am just shocked he would lie on an anonymous internet forum and paint himself as the victim.

I'd say it stems from the same entitlement, denialism, and twisted sense of morality that led the OP to commit such a normative error in the first place.

 

[Mad Jack]

This guy was rightfully expelled. Glad the school stuck to their guns on this one, the world doesn't need physicians like this in practice.

 

[KnuxNole]

Definitely an interesting twist. Also, to miss 12 entire shifts...it would be better to show up and not see patients(or do very little work) then not show up at all. Both are not recommended, but at least you did the minimum required to pass Go. Carelessness. This is also why you never, ever, ever, ever attempt to forge anything. Do things the right way, cause it will bite you in the bum.

 

[Xenoblade]

This thread was a good example of how what a poster says happened and what actually happened are often not even close to the same. The posts from dismissed residents are the same. "I was doing OK, but one guy had it out for me and I got fired. Can I sue them?". Yeah, sure.
And the responses are around 50% lawyer up...
You don't get canned on a whim. And if you do get fired, you either did something so bad they think you're dangerous, sexually harassed a couple people, or were deemed untrainable by the faculty.

Side bar: What do you mean by untrainable? Do you mean like a surgeon who doesn't have steady hands? (<---does this even happen in real life? Seriously, I would like to know). Or is it like residents are just so arrogant that they cannot take constructive criticism and ignore attendings?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Raryn]

Side bar: What do you mean by untrainable? Do you mean like a surgeon who doesn't have steady hands? (<---does this even happen in real life? Seriously, I would like to know). Or is it like residents are just so arrogant that they cannot take constructive criticism and ignore attendings?

Thanks in advance.

I've heard numerous surgeons say they can teach almost anyone to operate, with that not being the difficult part. The real problem ends up being to teach residents good judgement, especially with regards to when to operate and when to call for help. Some people (in any specialty) cannot recognize their own limitations and that can put patients dangerously at risk.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I'm confused as to how you can actually skip that many shifts during a rotation. Wouldn't someone eventually notice he's not showing up? Med students plz.

 

[mvenus929]

I'm confused as to how you can actually skip that many shifts during a rotation. Wouldn't someone eventually notice he's not showing up? Med students plz.

In the ED, it's fairly easy. There is a bunch of shift work, and everyone just assumes that either there isn't a student on during that rotation, or that he is doing a different shift.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

In the ED, it's fairly easy. There is a bunch of shift work, and everyone just assumes that either there isn't a student on during that rotation, or that he is doing a different shift.

But doesn't the person in charge of grading you get notified before hand that he should be grading you?

 

[Raryn]

But doesn't the person in charge of grading you get notified before hand that he should be grading you?

My ED rotation in medical school involved paper forms you would hand to them and they would fill out at the end of the shift. Sounds like this guys was about the same.

 

[mvenus929]

But doesn't the person in charge of grading you get notified before hand that he should be grading you?

Not at my school. We had paper evals to hand out at the end of our shift, and designed our own shifts among the students on the rotation at that time (only one student was allowed on shift at a time). The rotation director filled out the final online evals, based on the paper evals that were turned in. And this student forged those, so....

 

[Med Ed]

With the recent spate of "my school is out to get me/my friend" threads, I though it might be interesting to review why some of us are a little skeptical.

 

[TBV]

Wow how could someone put up with ~4 years of med school bullsh*t small groups, lectures and time wasters and then not show up to the last 11 shifts. Even without the forgery of signatures, this guy is the biggest idiot of all time.

 

[Demosthenes1]

It wouldn't be a stretch at all to imagine he cheated in a "time of crisis" in both undergrad and med school.
There was a thread awhile back where someone asked if they should report cheating. I'd imagine dishonesty starts early.

 

[FutureInternist]

The stupidest part of all this is that he would have graduated, just a bit late, if he had just finished up his rotations, which should have been pretty easy to do with the variable ER schedule

Got what he deserved