HELP! I need serious advice here

[confusedbum]

Hi everyone,

I recently got accepted to dental school (1 month ago - NYU) and hurried to get all my paper work done along with my physical for the Army HPSP scholarship. I worked so hard in less than 2 weeks to get myself board ready by March and then was approved which really made me happy at that moment (4 year hpsp). I commissioned shortly after and felt like I made a very good decision to save myself tons of money for the future. The past 2 weeks, I've been feeling uneasy about my hurried decision to do the HPSP. I've had added this extreme stress on my life with problems overeating, drinking, and not being to sleep at night knowing that I signed my autonomy and freedom to the US Gov't.

I initially wanted to do the HPSP because both my roommates are doing it as well and I had support from my parents who think the military is a walk in the park or some dream job. I've finally come to realize that I chose to do the HPSP for the wrong reasons. I wanted to know if it is possible to get out of my contract at this point. I've commisioned already and took the oath of office but at this time, have not received any benefits from the Army, no training, no stipends, no tuition, and no reimbursements. Basically, I just signed the contract and have not started dental school yet.

IS there any way I can get a honorable discharge? I don't think I would be willing to work in the medical service corps but I wouldn't mind working for a VA hospital for 1 year or 2. Is there any way I can negotiate terminating my contract but still give back a little to show that I'm sorry for wasting their time? Please, any suggestions would be really welcomed here

Edit: I want to ask my recruiter but maybe some of you guys or gals, can give me some advice first.

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[makushin]

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[confusedbum]

If you haven't taken any money yet you can get out. You're a big boy, use the search and figure it out.

I couldn't find anyone that posted their results!

 

[teeth63a]

Talk to your recruiter about getting a "conditional release". Your recruiter will then probably have to go through Human Resources Command (who has authority in scholarship issues). Do it soon.

VA jobs are civilian contract jobs or government positions and have nothing to do with the military. I'm not sure of the "medical service corps" that you're talking about. In the Army, the MSC are the officers in charge of hospital administration.

If you want benefits similiar to the HPSP without being in the military, try looking into the Indian reservation work.

Its too bad you're reconsidering, but if its causing you this much grief, then the military is not for you.

 

[jmick101]

Confused,

You are an adult, which means in my book that you take responsibility for you actions and follow through on your decisions. You should have done your due diligence before you signed any contracts or made any promises.

"Sign away your autonomy and freedom?" Do you have any idea how insulting that is to us who have also volunteered of our own free will and choosing? Don't insult the rest of us lemmings because you are too queasy to get over your cold feet. If you are looking for a place to find advice on how to weasel out of your contract, you may want to look elsewhere, I doubt you will find many sympathetic ears here.

Man up and keep your word. That's my advice.

 

[confusedbum]

Confused,

You are an adult, which means in my book that you take responsibility for you actions and follow through on your decisions. You should have done your due diligence before you signed any contracts or made any promises.

"Sign away your autonomy and freedom?" Do you have any idea how insulting that is to us who have also volunteered of our own free will and choosing? Don't insult the rest of us lemmings because you are too queasy to get over your cold feet. If you are looking for a place to find advice on how to weasel out of your contract, you may want to look elsewhere, I doubt you will find many sympathetic ears here.

Man up and keep your word. That's my advice.

Jmick, with all due respect, I didn't mean it to offend anyone. Trust me, I'm not looking for sympathy from you but rather advice on the matter if you knew anyone in my similar situation. I don't need you to insult me as I made a life mistake (personally) signing on the dotted line. I am admitting to my mistake so you telling me to get over cold feet and man it up is unwarranted SIR but thank you for responding.

 

[confusedbum]

Talk to your recruiter about getting a "conditional release". Your recruiter will then probably have to go through Human Resources Command (who has authority in scholarship issues). Do it soon.

VA jobs are civilian contract jobs or government positions and have nothing to do with the military. I'm not sure of the "medical service corps" that you're talking about. In the Army, the MSC are the officers in charge of hospital administration.

If you want benefits similiar to the HPSP without being in the military, try looking into the Indian reservation work.

Its too bad you're reconsidering, but if its causing you this much grief, then the military is not for you.

Thanks teeth, in the HPSP manual it explains how to put in a discharge order and one of the conditions was selected active duty service in another field and one of them was medical service corps. I'm assuming they would put people who back out of the hpsp to work in clinics or hospitals as techs, assistants (i have no idea).

I'll try talking to the recruiter tomorrow regarding this.

 

[hattrack04]

Confused,

You are an adult, which means in my book that you take responsibility for you actions and follow through on your decisions. You should have done your due diligence before you signed any contracts or made any promises.

"Sign away your autonomy and freedom?" Do you have any idea how insulting that is to us who have also volunteered of our own free will and choosing? Don't insult the rest of us lemmings because you are too queasy to get over your cold feet. If you are looking for a place to find advice on how to weasel out of your contract, you may want to look elsewhere, I doubt you will find many sympathetic ears here.

Man up and keep your word. That's my advice.

I agree with you jmick; a contract means nothing these days, which is unfortunate. But do you want someone working beside you who absolutely hates their decision to serve and makes your life more miserable because of it? I don't....

 

[jmick101]

Confused,

You want an honorable discharge? What would be honorable about letting you break your contract?

You want your cake and to eat it too. You want out of your obligation without fulfilling it, and you want an honorable discharge as well.

Ain't gonna happen, and it shouldn't.

You want to weasel out of your contract? Fine. Then you deserve to be labeled as one with a less than honorable discharge. Google how to get out and there are all kinds of sneaky ways to do it that are pretty much common knowledge (suicide attempts, psychiatric problems, drug problems, claim gay, etc).

Hattrack

Do I want to serve with a guy like this? Probably not. I have had my fair share of time in service with people who were miserable. While it sucked to be around them sometimes, at least they didn't just quit and claim gay or something. They finished their service and got out, collecting an EARNED honorable discharge on the way.

 

[ruskyline]

to the person who made a comment above mine:
okay get over it dude! you act like you have never made a mistake in your life. humans are not machines and they are not programed to make no errors, this OP dude due to having limited time made a poor decision and now he is seeking for an "advice", he thought someone might have gone through all these and willing to help. people need to stop being judgmental and just accept that everyone is different from one another; hence, they can not have the same taste of food from one another. i really hope that the OP dude finds a way out, i can totally see myself in your shoes, just keep your head up and at the end, contract is just a piece of paper, don't let that paper change your life( i assume you don't like it)

 

[confusedbum]

to the person who made a comment above mine:
okay get over it dude! you act like you have never made a mistake in your life. humans are not machines and they are not programed to make no errors, this OP dude due to having limited time made a poor decision and now he is seeking for an "advice", he thought someone might have gone through all these and willing to help. people need to stop being judgmental and just accept that everyone is different from one another; hence, they can not have the same taste of food from one another. i really hope that the OP dude finds a way out, i can totally see myself in your shoes, just keep your head up and at the end, contract is just a piece of paper, don't let that paper change your life( i assume you don't like it)

Thanks for the encouragement rusty.

Jmick,
It almost sounds like you want me to stay in Army as a punishment for my hurried decision to sign up. I admit I was too tempted about the monetary aspect of the scholarship without making a fully informed decision. This was partly influenced by my recruiter who lied and promised such a grand lifestyle. It was after speaking to real dentists that I realized the full extent of what some, NOT all dentists have gone through. I hate recruiters that try to lure you in with incentives while not asking the individual if he/she wants to be apart of the military. This is such an evil ploy to get more people to sign up - I unfortunately fell for it.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

WOW!!!! There is so much depth to this thread where a bunch of tangets could break off talking about different aspects of contracts, service for country, honor, etc.

To the OP (Confused): Don't be so sensitive regarding someone calling you out. You do have to realize that you are in the military forum where there are a lot of us who are either already military dentists or have served our country for years. There are a bunch of people here who freely make sacrifices to serve their country with pride while honoring a committment they made when they took the oath of office. I realize you did not start the thread to gain sympathy. I think if you hadn't added the comment "I signed my autonomy and freedom to the US Gov't" you might have gotten more constructive comments. You did it to gain knowledge in how you could break your contract without it negatively affecting you. That is a real problem with people these days. Too many people have no HONOR. It use to be you could just shake hands and two people would HONOR that agreement. Then, contracts became necessary to make sure people lived up to their side of the agreement and prove what they agreed to. Nowdays, not even a contract means anything. Get a good lawyer and they can find a way out of any contract if you want to. In my eyes, you are a prime example of a person who committs to something and doesn't want to face any negative consequences after they have a change of heart. Personally, I have absolutely no respect for people who do not live up to their word. That said, I also would not want to serve with someone who had a change of heart so soon after signing a comtract because they felt they made a mistake. Eventually, you would make life miserable for those around you once you becamse a Naval dentist. I have seen it before to such a degree where the dentist was placed on restriction because he couldn't be trusted to do his job because of his attitude. Eventually, he was kicked out of the Navy. For that reason, I hope you find a way out of your contract because I wouldn't want to serve next to you if you ended up being disgruntled about having to own up to your contract.

 

[jmick101]

to the person who made a comment above mine:
okay get over it dude! you act like you have never made a mistake in your life. humans are not machines and they are not programed to make no errors, this OP dude due to having limited time made a poor decision and now he is seeking for an "advice", he thought someone might have gone through all these and willing to help. people need to stop being judgmental and just accept that everyone is different from one another; hence, they can not have the same taste of food from one another. i really hope that the OP dude finds a way out, i can totally see myself in your shoes, just keep your head up and at the end, contract is just a piece of paper, don't let that paper change your life( i assume you don't like it)

Rusky,

A "contract is just a piece of paper"? Rarely has such nonsense been expressed in such few words. Congratulations! Suffice it to say that it represents the highlight of your excellent commentary on poor Mr. Confused's situation.

Riddle me this Batman: Why should the OP get an honorable discharge for flaking out of his commitment? Isn't that sort of unfair to those of us who are proud of being honorably discharged?

The way I see it his options are thus: be a man and fulfill the obligation or weasel out and get a less than honorable discharge or get impressed into active duty as a med service officer. Of the three, the one that would be best would be to take his crappy discharge and be happy with it. It is just my contention that at this stage (he IS a commissioned officer) an honorable separation is a unlikely.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

This was partly influenced by my recruiter who lied and promised such a grand lifestyle. It was after speaking to real dentists that I realized the full extent of what some, NOT all dentists have gone through. I hate recruiters that try to lure you in with incentives while not asking the individual if he/she wants to be apart of the military. This is such an evil ploy to get more people to sign up - I unfortunately fell for it.

I will not deny that there are recruiters out there who do this. Unfortunately, it happens. But, you are going to be a dentist. A person who is considered to be near the top of intelligence of society. A person people respect. You should realize, especially during a time of war, that there is not a grand lifestyle to be lived. Yes, there are duty stations that are sought after, but those are few and far between. Dentists go to war just like the ground pounders.

 

[jmick101]

Thanks for the encouragement rusty.

Jmick,
It almost sounds like you want me to stay in Army as a punishment for my hurried decision to sign up. I admit I was too tempted about the monetary aspect of the scholarship without making a fully informed decision. This was partly influenced by my recruiter who lied and promised such a grand lifestyle. It was after speaking to real dentists that I realized the full extent of what some, NOT all dentists have gone through. I hate recruiters that try to lure you in with incentives while not asking the individual if he/she wants to be apart of the military. This is such an evil ploy to get more people to sign up - I unfortunately fell for it.

I am going to respond to this because your recruiter probably doesn't know he is being slammed and someone else might stumble upon it. Both of the recruiters I worked with when I was enlisting and then after I got the HPSP were both superb. They didn't sugar coat things and they both worked hard to see things were done well.

News flash for you: Recruiters RECRUIT, that is what they do! They put their best foot forward for the organization they represent just like anyone else (Army, Navy, NYU Dental school, etc...). It is their job to make as convincing an argument in their favor as they can. If there are negatives, then it is your job to resolve them. That is where the concept of DUE DILIGENCE comes into play. You make it seem as if this scumbag hypnotized you and made you do things against your will.

You can't think for yourself? You cant get on the web or pick up a phone or something? Man, take some responsibility for your actions! It wasn't anyone's fault but yours so stop blaming your silly lack of foresight on the recruiter.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

contract is just a piece of paper

Rusky, remember these words that you so eloquently stated when you have a dental practice - a "contract is just a piece of paper". You do dental work all the time and your patients sign agreements. Based on your words, the contract to pay you is only a piece of paper. I guess they shouldn't have to pay you for services rendered. Also, when you screw up and have a lawsuit filed against you, you are going to want your insurance company to bail your butt out so you don't have to pay anything out of pocket. OOPS! The ontract you signed with that insurance company is only a piece of paper. You are going to get so pissed off when they try to find ways of not living up to their end of the bargain because they are going to try every way they ca to find somethign that negates their responsibility to bail you out.

You are a prime example of how attitudes have changed from one of HONOR to one of it all about me, me, me.

 

[jmick101]

Rusky, remember these words that you so eloquently stated when you have a dental practice - a "contract is just a piece of paper". You do dental work all the time and your patients sign agreements. Based on your words, the contract to pay you is only a piece of paper. I guess they shouldn't have to pay you for services rendered. Also, when you screw up and have a lawsuit filed against you, you are going to want your insurance company to bail your butt out so you don't have to pay anything out of pocket. OOPS! The ontract you signed with that insurance company is only a piece of paper. You are going to get so pissed off when they try to find ways of not living up to their end of the bargain because they are going to try every way they ca to find somethign that negates their responsibility to bail you out.

You are a prime example of how attitudes have changed from one of HONOR to one of it all about me, me, me.

Amen brother. I can almost forgive the fact that you are Navy.

Almost.

 

[confusedbum]

I am going to respond to this because your recruiter probably doesn't know he is being slammed and someone else might stumble upon it. Both of the recruiters I worked with when I was enlisting and then after I got the HPSP were both superb. They didn't sugar coat things and they both worked hard to see things were done well.

News flash for you: Recruiters RECRUIT, that is what they do! They put their best foot forward for the organization they represent just like anyone else (Army, Navy, NYU Dental school, etc...). It is their job to make as convincing an argument in their favor as they can. If there are negatives, then it is your job to resolve them. That is where the concept of DUE DILIGENCE comes into play. You make it seem as if this scumbag hypnotized you and made you do things against your will.

You can't think for yourself? You cant get on the web or pick up a phone or something? Man, take some responsibility for your actions! It wasn't anyone's fault but yours so stop blaming your silly lack of foresight on the recruiter.

I'll take the shame of whatever discharge I can get from this - I should have just worded my original post differently. I didn't know what terminology to use so excuse me that was obvious my mistake.

I didn't blame my recruiter for making me sign on the dotted line. One thing that ticks me off is that he shouldn't have promised such grand prospects of traveling around the world and living it up in europe and hawaii when getting those stations are next to impossible, etc.etc. I already stated a few times that it was my mistake for signing up and now that that is done, I know I made a mistake - that is why I want to opt out. All i seek is advice, not some ego tricked maniac like you scolding me about how stupid I am. I'm not here to argue or converse on that. I just honestly need advice on how to proceed.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Amen brother. I can almost forgive the fact that you are Navy.

Almost.

AWWWWW! Does someone have a complex when thinking about the Navy? Could it be that Navy has KICKED Army's butt for 9 of the past 10 years? I know ..... you feel you were lied to and conned into joining the Army because of the prestige and lifestyle. Now you wish you could have joined the Navy, but you are stuck HONORING your contract!

 

[confusedbum]

AWWWWW! Does someone have a complex when thinking about the Navy? Could it be that Navy has KICKED Army's ***** for 9 of the past 10 years? I know ..... you feel you were lied to and conned into joining the Army because of the prestige and lifestyle. Now you wish you could have joined the Navy, but you are stuck HONORING your contract!

We'll see

Btw, the Navy rejected my initial application - I guess that makes the navy better then army. Go figure

 

[jmick101]

I didn't blame my recruiter for making me sign on the dotted line. One thing that ticks me off is that he shouldn't have promised such grand prospects of traveling around the world and living it up in europe and hawaii when getting those stations are next to impossible, etc.etc. I already stated a few times that it was my mistake for signing up and now that that is done, I know I made a mistake - that is why I want to opt out. All i seek is advice, not some ego tricked maniac like you scolding me about how stupid I am. I'm not here to argue or converse on that. I just honestly need advice on how to proceed.

I know people who have been, and are stationed in Hawaii. I know people who have been or are stationed in Germany and Italy. Chances of getting Hawaii right out of school? Not good unless you get picked up for an OS residency or the 2 yr AEGD there. The recruiter was not at all lying by saying these things are possible or likely in military life, even fresh out of school.

I never said you were stupid, you wouldn't have gotten into dental school if you were. I said you lacked foresight and are behaving irresponsibly, not to mention you are breaking your word. All of which you have said yourself, more or less. I am not an ego maniac for pointing these things out, but if it makes you feel better to call me names, have at it. I mean, it is not YOUR fault that people are saying these mean things to you after all right?

 

[jmick101]

AWWWWW! Does someone have a complex when thinking about the Navy? Could it be that Navy has KICKED Army's butt for 9 of the past 10 years? I know ..... you feel you were lied to and conned into joining the Army because of the prestige and lifestyle. Now you wish you could have joined the Navy, but you are stuck HONORING your contract!

Yes, I do actually have kind of a complex about the Army/Navy football thrashing, I wish my recruiter would have told me about it. I always knew there was something he wasn't telling me...

 

[teeth63a]

I'm wondering what "lies" the recruiter told you.

 

[jfitzpat]

I understand that whole thing about honor and such, but this kid has taken NOTHING from the Army yet. It's not like he's the guy saying...."OK I've been on HPSP for the last four years and now want to get out because the Army isn't what I expected". Those are the guys with no honor. To me, this is a case of no harm, no foul on either side and the OP shouldn't have to spend the next eight years in misery, especially since he realized his mistake so early.

To the OP, I have heard (like other have mentioned) that if you haven't taken any financial benefit yet, you can get out. If you go over to the Military Medicine board, there might be some guys that know more. I think one or two of them know of people who went to COT/BOLC/OIS before school started, realized they made a mistake while they were there and were able to get out and be sent home.

 

[krmower]

Thanks teeth, in the HPSP manual it explains how to put in a discharge order and one of the conditions was selected active duty service in another field and one of them was medical service corps. I'm assuming they would put people who back out of the hpsp to work in clinics or hospitals as techs, assistants (i have no idea).

I'll try talking to the recruiter tomorrow regarding this.

In the Army you would be a medical service corps officer working with medical assets.

Here's the problem - you signed up for an active duty scholarship. This means unless you are released from your contract - you will go active duty. If you tell them you are not going dental, then they can take you right now for 4 active years as a medial service corps officer (no dental school now). If you go with the dental - then when you graduate you will be a dentist in the Army unless you can't get a license - then you will be a medical service corps officer. There are no transfers to the Reserve/Guard. There are not transfers to another service (Air Force/Indian Health service).

Your 3 options are:
- Speak with the recruiter and see if there is someway they can help you get released (realize you may not get an honorable discharge which may affect future employment and other federal (loans, etc...) opportunities)
- Get an attorney
- The option I would recommend - visit an Army dental clinic to see first hand what you are worried about. After visiting your fears may be confirmed or dispelled. Without looking into things first hand it's hard to make the best decision. If you need help setting up a visit some place - talk to your recruiter. He/she can help you to coordinate something.

 

[krmower]

I understand that whole thing about honor and such, but this kid has taken NOTHING from the Army yet. It's not like he's the guy saying...."OK I've been on HPSP for the last four years and now want to get out because the Army isn't what I expected". Those are the guys with no honor. To me, this is a case of no harm, no foul on either side and the OP shouldn't have to spend the next eight years in misery, especially since he realized his mistake so early.

To the OP, I have heard (like other have mentioned) that if you haven't taken any financial benefit yet, you can get out. If you go over to the Military Medicine board, there might be some guys that know more. I think one or two of them know of people who went to COT/BOLC/OIS before school started, realized they made a mistake while they were there and were able to get out and be sent home.

The only problem is that he has commissioned as an Officer in the United States Reserve with a minimum obligation of 8 years. I don't know of any branch of the military that will let someone commission as an officer and then say - guess I didn't want to do it after all. You just signed up for the miltary - regardless of whether money has been received.

I'm not saying you can't get out - I'm just saying this is a contract with the government and therefore has escalated to a whole different level.

I still recommend checking some Army clinic out and seeing if this has been the worst mistake of your life - or if it's OK.

 

[jfitzpat]

The only problem is that he has commissioned as an Officer in the United States Reserve with a minimum obligation of 8 years. I don't know of any branch of the military that will let someone commission as an officer and then say - guess I didn't want to do it after all. You just signed up for the miltary - regardless of whether money has been received.

I'm not saying you can't get out - I'm just saying this is a contract with the government and therefore has escalated to a whole different level.

I still recommend checking some Army clinic out and seeing if this has been the worst mistake of your life - or if it's OK.

I think (and this is just from memory so the OP should check it out on his own) that they void the contract and an do an Entry Level Separation, which would have no future impact on jobs/loans.

I do agree that it would be a good idea for the OP to make sure that it isn't just a little bit of buyer's remorse. Signing up for the military is overwhelming and maybe after the nerves calm and he sees that HPSP is a great opportunity, things will be different.

 

[umkcdds]

why the offense to his comment, "I signed my autonomy and freedom to the US Gov't?"

that is exactly what we have done.


to the OP: the government gets what is owed to it. one way or another.....it goes back to the old saying: "Nothing is certain but death and taxes."

i am going to second what krmower said: check out an army dental clinic first hand.

talk to your recruiter about setting up a visit to a clinic or two.

i recommend trying to visit one of the clinics that have a 1-year AEGD. talk to the residents there. that will give you a good pool of "fresh from dental school" candidates to talk to about their decision and the pros/cons of it.

also talk to people who have been in a few years. there are several of us, on here, that are army. send a PM to any of us with questions. krmower is a wealth of information to talk to.

we'll help get information about the army, in any way we can, but if you are looking for someone to help you get out of the army, you are looking in the wrong place.

 

[jmick101]

why the offense to his comment, "I signed my autonomy and freedom to the US Gov't?"

that is exactly what we have done.

No, this is not what we have done. We have simply agreed to live by a different set of laws (the UCMJ) with different consequences.

I can do whatever I want in the military, and I am as free as anyone to disobey at anytime or anyplace. I may not like the consequences of those choices, but oh well, they were my choices.

Those in the military are not mindless automatons and I don't want to be lumped into that category by the uninformed. We already have too many people in our world who are free as the day is long but choose to blame everyone and everything else besides themselves for the outcomes of their actions or non actions.

This is not just philosophical mumbo jumbo either. The guards at the Nuremburg trials tried the defense "oh, I am in the military and they told me to do it, so I HAD to do it." They were saying, "we had no freedom or autonomy so we are not responsible for what we have done." Wrong and wrong and they hung for it.

 

[umkcdds]

No, this is not what we have done. We have simply agreed to live by a different set of laws (the UCMJ) with different consequences.

I can do whatever I want in the military, and I am as free as anyone to disobey at anytime or anyplace. I may not like the consequences of those choices, but oh well, they were my choices.

if you say so.....and you don't even see the irony of what you just said....

 

[jmick101]

if you say so.....and you don't even see the irony of what you just said....

Irony of what? You make choices and live with the consequences, what is ironic about that? Explain please.

 

[confusedbum]

Teeth63,

The recruiter promised such a grand lifestyle of living next to the beach, working 9-5, moving around the country, having free time to travel. the best high tech equipment. He told me dentists are rarely ever deployed - i know that is a lie. I also understand that dentists aren't really allowed to travel too far outside of the base and have to work overtime and weekends without pay.

Krmower,

Thank you for the suggestions. I did take the trip to Seattle for the physical to check everything out. I did enjoy my time there and was impressed. I might need to try another base more local to me to see again.

umkcdds,

I did have a chance to speak with a resident and he enjoys his time there. I felt the morale was high at Ft. Lewis but then again I don't know the real deal because I was on a tour. An Ortho army specialist told me via e-mail that I really needed to know what I was getting myself into before joining. I didn't and I bit the bullet - now I'm in this tough situation basically not knowing what is going to happen in 4 years.

I want out but at the same time I could really use some big brother or mentoring telling me that I should just stay and follow through with it - I'm young (22). All this "you're stuck, honor it, too bad, too late" talk just makes me have this negative mentality and horrible vision that people like NAVY and jmick are setting for me. I know you guys are good people but online, it doesn't come off like that

 

[jfitzpat]

Teeth63,

The recruiter promised such a grand lifestyle of living next to the beach, working 9-5, moving around the country, having free time to travel. the best high tech equipment. He told me dentists are rarely ever deployed - i know that is a lie. I also understand that dentists aren't really allowed to travel too far outside of the base and have to work overtime and weekends without pay.

Krmower,

Thank you for the suggestions. I did take the trip to Seattle for the physical to check everything out. I did enjoy my time there and was impressed. I might need to try another base more local to me to see again.

umkcdds,

I did have a chance to speak with a resident and he enjoys his time there. I felt the morale was high at Ft. Lewis but then again I don't know the real deal because I was on a tour. An Ortho army specialist told me via e-mail that I really needed to know what I was getting myself into before joining. I didn't and I bit the bullet - now I'm in this tough situation basically not knowing what is going to happen in 4 years.

I want out but at the same time I could really use some big brother or mentoring telling me that I should just stay and follow through with it - I'm young (22). All this "you're stuck, honor it, too bad, too late" talk just makes me have this negative mentality and horrible vision that people like NAVY and jmick are setting for me. I know you guys are good people but online, it doesn't come off like that

All that being said, I think that you need to decide very quickly. I would not take too much time to consider your options. If you think it is just cold feet, then definitely check into some base visits or mentoring opportunities to make yourself more comfortable, but if you really think you want out, I would do it ASAP. Every day that passes will make it more difficult. I wouldn't come whining that the recruiter lied to you or anything like that. I would just tell them that you think you made the wrong decision and that you think it would in your and the Army's best interest if you could get out. The worst they can do is tell you no and you are in no worse place than you are now. Just my two cents.

 

[jfitzpat]

Plus, didn't someone say that the Army was just about out of Scholarships and had more applicants than slots left. Why not give it to someone who would be thrilled to get it instead of forcing someone who wants out to stay in.

 

[Getr Done DDS]

Yeah, I'd listen to Snake Eyes, DDS. Anybody who's got the name/icon of a G.I. Joe ninja character from the beloved 1980s cartoon has got to be reputable.

 

[teeth63a]

Yeah, I'd listen to Snake Eyes, DDS. Anybody who's got the name/icon of a G.I. Joe ninja character from the beloved 1980s cartoon has got to be reputable.

With this last post from Getr Done, this thread has lost all credibility. 1st post of a new member with a snarky ad hominem remark to a long time member? Smells like flame bait.

Confusedbum has more than enough information to get moving.

I'd close this thread if I could.

 

[jmick101]

I want out but at the same time I could really use some big brother or mentoring telling me that I should just stay and follow through with it - I'm young (22). All this "you're stuck, honor it, too bad, too late" talk just makes me have this negative mentality and horrible vision that people like NAVY and jmick are setting for me. I know you guys are good people but online, it doesn't come off like that

Thing is that you are stuck and you are going to have to make some tough choices. That horrible vision you are getting is not of an organization filled with jerks, but with a future of having to live with the consequences of your own choices.

Having said that, I think you are wise to seek the counsel of those who are making the most of their time in service (kmower, and others). Because now you have yet another choice that might be as momentous as choosing to join: to get out or not. But your original post did not hint that the jury might still be out, as you are letting on now. Since then you have taken a fair bit of guff (mainly from myself and Navy, no apologies either by the way) and now you are considering some options besides just running for the door, which is a good thing.

 

[jmick101]

With this last post from Getr Done, this thread has lost all credibility. 1st post of a new member picking on a long time member? Smells like flame bait.

Confusedbum has more than enough information to get moving.

I'd close this thread if I could.

Agreed. I am done. Laters Confused, and good luck. You wont be hearing from me anymore unless you PM me (which is unlikely I think).

 

[krmower]

Teeth63,

The recruiter promised such a grand lifestyle of living next to the beach, working 9-5, moving around the country, having free time to travel. the best high tech equipment. He told me dentists are rarely ever deployed - i know that is a lie. I also understand that dentists aren't really allowed to travel too far outside of the base and have to work overtime and weekends without pay.

Krmower,

Thank you for the suggestions. I did take the trip to Seattle for the physical to check everything out. I did enjoy my time there and was impressed. I might need to try another base more local to me to see again.

umkcdds,

I did have a chance to speak with a resident and he enjoys his time there. I felt the morale was high at Ft. Lewis but then again I don't know the real deal because I was on a tour. An Ortho army specialist told me via e-mail that I really needed to know what I was getting myself into before joining. I didn't and I bit the bullet - now I'm in this tough situation basically not knowing what is going to happen in 4 years.

I want out but at the same time I could really use some big brother or mentoring telling me that I should just stay and follow through with it - I'm young (22). All this "you're stuck, honor it, too bad, too late" talk just makes me have this negative mentality and horrible vision that people like NAVY and jmick are setting for me. I know you guys are good people but online, it doesn't come off like that

So far many of the things you listed that the recruiter has told you are correct. I have been in 7 years and this is what I have noticed:

You can travel anywhere you want, if it is outside of a certain radius (usually more than 150-200 miles) and you are not missing any work you get a mileage pass (just a way to let your command know you are going far away in case you have any problems - no vacation time is used) - if you are going to miss some days of work you use your vacation time and can go anywhere you want. I have never been limited anywhere I have wanted to go, and I have gone on vacation as far away as Asia.

You will move around the country - there are bases all over (just fewer in the West) - but there is the opportunity to hit many places you want. The key is you have to stay in more than your initial commitment. Just like working for a major corporation with different branches - when you come in at the bottom - it's not very likely you are going to get the "cherry" assignment, but as you work your way up in the company the opportunities to advance and move increase. The beach is a tough one, the only way you are getting Hawaii or one of the other 2 smaller bases by the beach is through a residency, or by deploying and working out a deal with the assignments branch afterward. Assignments like that are typically a "reward". Again - it's possible - I lived in Hawaii right out of school, but it was because I was a resident.

The equipment does tend to be on the new side - frequently newer then many private practices. Army bases are all digital with LCD monitors in the opporatatories. Chairs are usually less than 5 years old, etc...

As far as deployments - I would say if you stay in 4 years you have a 30-40% chance of deploying. I have many friends that have not deployed (including myself). You have to realize it is a possibility and be willing to deploy if you get selected. Out of nearly 1000 dentists, we have around 50 that are deployed - 5% of our work force at any one time. Believe it or not I acutally think the recruiter was fairly straight forward. Another thing to consider is that when you graduate from school in 4 years (or later if you do a residency), will we still be deploying like we are now?

As far as the nights/weekends - in the last 5 years I have had to come in on a weekend once for a deploying unit, and 1-2 times for dental emergencies (just like you would have to in private practice). The 2 years prior to that I was in a location that had a few more emergencies so every 3-4 months I would come in 2-3 times during the week I was on call - but again - no different then private practice. Patients in private practice have to be able to get access to you day/night in the case of an emergency.

If you don't want to go through your recruiter then PM me and I can help coordinate a visit for you. let me know the part of the country you are in. If you are anywhere near DC you can come with me.

 

[KOM]

I'm usually a pretty nice guy, but I'm very much in agreement with JMICK. It's your attitude that bothers me...plain and simple. Why wouldn't you just do a bit of research and try to get all the facts first instead of just listening to one recruiter? Are you that naive?

In case your parents didn't tell you, you're an adult now. Let me guess, you were only accepted to NYU...one of the most expensive schools out there, wanted a way to fund it, and thought that the govt was just going to give you 300K+ dollars without you having to make any sacrifices for this country?

If I were you I would be second guessing my decision to even go into dentistry...because you obviously aren't mature enough to make such decisions in the first place.

What is with so many American's attitudes nowadays? Always wanting something for nothing!

 

[hattrack04]

I haven't been reading all of the posts, but I just saw KOM's last post. I definitely agree, you should have researched. I looked for as many threads as I could find, searched for blogs, and spoke with many dentists who have gone through the military. I also always kept in mind that the recruiter's job was to recruit me. When I decided to join, I still realized that I didn't know everything. I did however accept the most important things: being placed somewhere which may have not been my top coice or even one of my top 5, deploying, and dealing with plenty of other frustrations that may come with the military..
...instead of trying to get out, you should continue to research what you can get out of the military.....there are a lot of opportunities that can make up for some of the negatives....Example: I'm getting a paid trip to an oral surgery residency in June during my ADT. Not only is it FREE, but I get to go on an externship that would not be an option for me if I wasnt an HPSP student, being that most civilian residencies require a letter from your school to approve you...and most schools (including mine) won't approve you to go until you have completed your 2nd year of school....but I get to go just as I'm finishing my D1 year......

ok, time to study for my perio exam....

 

[confusedbum]

I'm usually a pretty nice guy, but I'm very much in agreement with JMICK. It's your attitude that bothers me...plain and simple. Why wouldn't you just do a bit of research and try to get all the facts first instead of just listening to one recruiter? Are you that naive?

In case your parents didn't tell you, you're an adult now. Let me guess, you were only accepted to NYU...one of the most expensive schools out there, wanted a way to fund it, and thought that the govt was just going to give you 300K+ dollars without you having to make any sacrifices for this country?

If I were you I would be second guessing my decision to even go into dentistry...because you obviously aren't mature enough to make such decisions in the first place.

What is with so many American's attitudes nowadays? Always wanting something for nothing!

My intent was to seek advice and some knowledge regarding my original post. I don't want something for nothing. I haven't taken anything from the Army. I don't want to go into the military for the money and that is why I'm trying to get out. The only thing that is obvious is that I made a mistake signing before I could make a fully informed decision. I hurried the decision and regret it - that is all. You should second guess dentistry because with your attitude, you will probably treat your patients like **** if they don't agree with your treatment plans.

You don't know me and I don't know you but I can make un-called for comments about you as well.

 

[tikhon80]

confused bum...
It seems like most of the people tearing into you are dental students not yet serving in military dentistry. I actually appreciate the fact that you realized your mistake early before reaping the benefits of HPSP and service. That being said, you won't get an honorable discharge because getting out of a contract you signed without the due diligence required is NOT honorable. Right now, not tomorrow or later today, you need to call the officer in charge of recruiting in your region. Be completely honest, and inform him of your intentions of getting a lawyer if necessary. If you think your recruiter lied, tell him exactly what was said. If you wait any longer before taking decisive action, be prepared to serve your time without complaint. Hope this helps.

 

[makushin]

.

 

[jfitzpat]

You can absolutely get out if you have not taken any money, look at the military med board.

I can't stand the attitude of some of the tools on this board. If the guy wants out at this point, he should get out rather than be miserable about his choice for the next 8 years and drag down everyone around him when he gets active duty, just so he can feel good about 'following his word'. Commitment... follow through... blah, blah. He hasn't taken any money yet.

This situation is unique to direct commissions because if this person was at enlisted boot camp, at an academy, or at OCS there is a period where you are allowed to quit, and many do, and the service is better for it. There is no period like this for HPSP, therefore there are too many wishy washy people in it that don't belong. If the gov wants to go giving out direct commissions basically based on really nothing more than admission to dental school, this is what happens.

As far as the recruiters go, they are a joke. They are salesman. Of course this guys recruiter painted the rosy picture of something he probably knows nothing about.

Dude get out, and use your head next time you have to make a large decision. Also, I hope you realize that since you attend NYU, you are leaving a lot on the table financially. Don't bitch to anyone when you have $400k in loans in 4 years.

I totally agree. I know a bunch of you guys are lighting this kid up and I just don't get it. At least he has shown some remorse and has the class to do it now instead of four years from now when he has 400k of the Army's money. You can return a TV to walmart and you can void just about any loan for a period of time after you sign the docs. In my opinion, HPSP should be no different, and from my understanding, it isn't. You can get out until the day money changes hands and then after that it's over. This seems pretty fair to me. Making an honest mistake doesn't necessarily equal having no honor as some people have suggested on this thread.

 

[KOM]

You should second guess dentistry because with your attitude, you will probably treat your patients like **** if they don't agree with your treatment plans.

You don't know me and I don't know you but I can make un-called for comments about you as well.

Well, I would hope that if a patient doesn't agree with my Tx plans or doesn't sufficiently understand the risks/benefits involved then they will go and get a second opinion rather than just sign on the dotted line.

Actually, you bring up an important point.

I'd like to see your reaction once you've obtained informed consent from one of your patient's for a specific treatment after you feel you've explained to them the pros and cons...then they say they won't pay, or even worse, sue you, because they don't like the outcome, or they didn't have ALL the information! I bet you may think differently about contracts in such a scenario. Frivolous lawsuits can ruin your career.

However, I shouldn't have stepped over you so quickly. You were just looking for info. Good luck getting out.

 

[jmick101]

I can't stand the attitude of some of the tools on this board. If the guy wants out at this point, he should get out rather than be miserable about his choice for the next 8 years and drag down everyone around him when he gets active duty, just so he can feel good about 'following his word'. Commitment... follow through... blah, blah.

I had originally signed off this thread, but I got a PM from the OP so I guess my input is still desired.

I can only imagine that I am one of the "tools" referenced here, and I would like to comment. Makushin, you apparently know very little about the military if you think it is too much to shame someone who doesn't just "change his mind" but breaks an oath and a written contract.

If you think that things like honor, commitment, trustworthiness, and "blah blah blah", are small things not worthy of note, then perhaps you should find a more suitable line of work. I would suggest divorce law where commitments and vows don't mean much.

As someone who has actually served more than a couple days on Active Duty (as opposed to some on this board who will remain nameless) I know that character does count especially as an officer. Of course this guy shouldn't be an officer unless he grows up a bit! Of course he should have done more research before he committed (though in fairness, he did visit an army clinic first hand, correspond with active duty dentists, and consult with immediate family, how much more does a person need?)! But to suggest that after the fact he can just take off willy nilly with no repercussions is simply false.

One repercussion that is that if you flake out of your military obligation for whatever reason, that decision will follow you around for the rest of your life. You burned the government and you are going to get red flagged for it and rightly so. Somehow the logic of this seems to escape the OP who finds this unfair. Well, if the OP thinks my attitude is cold blooded, wait until he has to fill out some federal paperwork where he is required to report military discharge status. Then we will see if the advice and encouragement to stick to his commitment was the right one or not.

Besides, your advice to "not bitch" about the repercussions of a decision is just as patronizing as anything I, or anyone else, have advised.

 

[jfitzpat]

One repercussion that is that if you flake out of your military obligation for whatever reason, that decision will follow you around for the rest of your life. You burned the government and you are going to get red flagged for it and rightly so. Somehow the logic of this seems to escape the OP who finds this unfair. Well, if the OP thinks my attitude is cold blooded, wait until he has to fill out some federal paperwork where he is required to report military discharge status. Then we will see if the advice and encouragement to stick to his commitment was the right one or not.

The problem is that you are spreading incorrect information. There are multiple people over in the Milmed forum who have been released WITHOUT REPURCUSSION so long as they did so before they took any benefit. You are entitled to feel how you do, but you shouldn't tell the OP they are screwed when it isn't necessarily the case.

With that, I'm signing off on this thread as it, like teeth63a noted a long time ago, probably isn't doing a whole lot to help the OP anymore.

 

[dentalOH]

I had originally signed off this thread, but I got a PM from the OP so I guess my input is still desired.

I can only imagine that I am one of the "tools" referenced here, and I would like to comment. Makushin, you apparently know very little about the military if you think it is too much to shame someone who doesn't just "change his mind" but breaks an oath and a written contract.

If you think that things like honor, commitment, trustworthiness, and "blah blah blah", are small things not worthy of note, then perhaps you should find a more suitable line of work. I would suggest divorce law where commitments and vows don't mean much.

As someone who has actually served more than a couple days on Active Duty (as opposed to some on this board who will remain nameless) I know that character does count especially as an officer. Of course this guy shouldn't be an officer unless he grows up a bit! Of course he should have done more research before he committed (though in fairness, he did visit an army clinic first hand, correspond with active duty dentists, and consult with immediate family, how much more does a person need?)! But to suggest that after the fact he can just take off willy nilly with no repercussions is simply false.

One repercussion that is that if you flake out of your military obligation for whatever reason, that decision will follow you around for the rest of your life. You burned the government and you are going to get red flagged for it and rightly so. Somehow the logic of this seems to escape the OP who finds this unfair. Well, if the OP thinks my attitude is cold blooded, wait until he has to fill out some federal paperwork where he is required to report military discharge status. Then we will see if the advice and encouragement to stick to his commitment was the right one or not.

Besides, your advice to "not bitch" about the repercussions of a decision is just as patronizing as anything I, or anyone else, have advised.

According to AR 601-41 (the regulation which covers HPSP), the OP does not incur an active duty obligation until the date he is eligible to receive benefits (the date school begins). He also does not incur the eight year MSO until he participates in a period of the program which incurs the ADO (until he receives benefits).

If the OP has truly changed his mind, he needs to sit down with his recruiter and read section 2-15 Discharge. It outlines the steps of submitting an unqualified resignation of his commission as prescribed in AR 135-175. If the Army chooses to accept his resignation, he will get an honorable discharge as he has no current obligation. If the Army does not accept his resignation, he would be expected to fulfill his contract in an honorable manner.

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r601_141.pdf

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r135_175.pdf

 

[jmick101]

My entire point, from start to finish, is that the OP can and should get out, but that he should not get an honorable release for it. I thought this was Army policy, but... maybe it isn't. They have to have some kind of denotation for someone who contracts, joins (however briefly), and then backs out as opposed to someone who has fulfilled their service and then gotten out.

From the above link:

(2) General Discharge Certificate (Under Honorable Conditions) (DD Form 257A). A general discharge is a
separation from the United States Army under honorable conditions of an officer whose military record is not
sufficiently meritorious to warrant an honorable discharge.


And there it is folks, the general discharge, i.e. not an honorable discharge. No repercussions, but... I am reminded of a story about the Ghurka's. If one of them returned home with anything other than an honorable discharge, they were shunned.

Just food for thought.