HELP: Institutional Action (help me sleep at night, please)

[aspiring20]

thanks for the responses

no i havent been accepted yet. i haven't taken the mcat yet, in fact. but i just wanted to know.

i know that college disciplinary records will be looked at my med schools during the app process. but i surely hope that it wont matter at all further down the road.

our school keeps all disciplinary records on file for 8 years after matriculation, unless suspensions/expulsions were involved. in those cases, the records are kept indefinitely.

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[CatFactorial]

In that case, when you apply go for full disclosure. Also, (almost) goes without saying, the higher your #s, the more opportunities you'll have to explain.

 

[PMPMD]

That seems pretty minor for probation, was there more to the story?

 

[aspiring20]

thanks for all the responses

absolutely not. it sounds as "silly" as it is...haha.

also, any of you know whether this is going to pop up AGAIN when applying for residencies?

 

[PMPMD]

also, any of you know whether this is going to pop up AGAIN when applying for residencies?

Unfortunately, it might. The language for residency apps (and licensing too) is varied, but sometimes would include probation.

 

[PMPMD]

Having said that, I doubt what you described would bar you from getting in.

 

[RapplixGmed]

So this is what I hear happens to applications with "trouble with the law or disciplinary action".

These applications are separated form the usual pool of applicants for initial review. There is usually a committee that meets to discuss the particular disciplinary action involved and then vote on whether to pass this to the general application pool or discard the app. Minor things such as underage drinking or your case are usually passed on while major things such as felonies or cheating are thrown out. The applications are then usually treated normally until it comes time to discuss your app at full committee, in which case it may or may not hurt your application depending on the personal preferences and judgement of the committee members. Your interviewer may elect to ask you more about it since he has to defend your case but he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to.

 

[aspiring20]

thanks

I def. understand that med school committees will review disciplinary incidents in college.

I just find it a bit shocking that residency and licensing apps down the road may also want to know about what happened in undergrad.

 

[PMPMD]

I just find it a bit shocking that residency and licensing apps down the road may also want to know about what happened in undergrad.

From the Texas medical license app:

"Actions and Investigations in Education, Training or During Employment
If you answer "Yes" to any question in this section, you are required to submit Form U. If
you believe that any action or investigation was minor or not reportable, you must read
the instruction on Form U before you answer “No” to ensure your full and honest
disclosure. An “academic program” is defined to include any of the following:
undergraduate education; professional education such as medical, PA, acupuncture
school, or other professional education required for licensure; or post-graduate
education.
Has an academic program, health care entity or professional organization ever taken
against you, through either oral or written communication, any of the following public or
private actions:
Question 13a(required)
limitation, reduction, suspension, revocation or denial of privileges? If you answer "Yes"
to this question, you are required to submit Form U.
Yes
No
Question 13b(required)
warning, censure, reprimand, or formal admonishment? If you answer "Yes" to this
question, you are required to submit Form U.
Yes
No
Question 13c(required)
additional limitations or requirements placed on you based on your clinical performance,
academic performance, discipline, or for any other reason? If you answer "Yes" to this
question, you are required to submit Form U.
Yes
No
Question 13d(required)
placement on academic or disciplinary probation? If you answer "Yes" to this question,
you are required to submit Form U.
Yes
No
Question 13e(required)
request of termination, withdrawal or resignation? If you answer "Yes" to this question,
you are required to submit Form U.
Yes
No"

 

[aspiring20]

thanks a lot pmpmd

do you also mind showing me this "form U" that's mentioned?

 

[Law2Doc]

thanks for all the responses

absolutely not. it sounds as "silly" as it is...haha.

also, any of you know whether this is going to pop up AGAIN when applying for residencies?

If you get into and do well in med school, this shouldn't keep you out of residency, I wouldn't think, although if they ask about this kind of thing you need to come clean. However one caveat -- you are going to have to have a much better story about having learned from your mistakes rather than dismiss it as "silly". That sounds too contrite and that you perhaps didn't learn from a mistake.

 

[PMPMD]

thanks a lot pmpmd

do you also mind showing me this "form U" that's mentioned?

Sure, its in here somewhere:

www.tmb.state.tx.us/

 

[FIREitUP]

That's pretty ridiculous that schools are now policing facebook...good luck OP, and limit your facebook time.

 

[aspiring20]

actually another student REPORTED my facebook statuses to the student office. Yeah, I definitely need to conduct myself in a more civil and restrained manner on facebook.

I find it a bit excessive that the texas medical board asks for disciplinary actions that took place BEFORE medical school.

 

[cbrons]

OP you have to understand that in the modern America, you can be victimized by places like Universities simply for writing something that isn't politically correct on a social networking sites. Personally, I'd stand up for myself and sue the university for violating my right to due process (just because a girl accuses you of something doesn't mean you are guilty/have to put your tail between your legs).

 

[aspiring20]

Someone on the Allo forum just told me that on texas' license application, applicants must disclose disciplinary probations that occurred during UNDERGRADUATE years. I personally think this is way too excessive.

Anyways, do any of you know whether a disciplinary/institutional action record acquired during college will have a impact on anything OTHER THAN medical school admissions? I searched around a bit, but couldn't find out whether residency programs ask for undergraduate disciplinary records.

Fortunately, many other states dont seem to require applicants to divulge their undergraduate records, unless they are criminal in nature.

If you can't tell already, I have received an institutional action...

 

[aspiring20]

tell me what u guys thinks

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

There has to be more to this story? What did you write on your FB about the girl?

Hope this isn't Craigslist Killer Part Deux...

 

[MedAdComMD]

Someone on the Allo forum just told me that on texas' license application, applicants must disclose disciplinary probations that occurred during UNDERGRADUATE years. I personally think this is way too excessive.

Anyways, do any of you know whether a disciplinary/institutional action record acquired during college will have a impact on anything OTHER THAN medical school admissions? I searched around a bit, but couldn't find out whether residency programs ask for undergraduate disciplinary records.

Fortunately, many other states dont seem to require applicants to divulge their undergraduate records, unless they are criminal in nature.

If you can't tell already, I have received an institutional action...

If the IA didn't impact your med school admission, then it will not likely impact your residency.

What was the IA?

 

[aspiring20]

it is quite silly.

basically, i wrote a few concerning remarks about a female students on my facebook wall, and another student reported those statememnts to the student office. i was told not to contact the individual and seek continual counseling. if i violate these two provisions, i will be subject to disciplinary action

i missed a counseling appoint and didn't reschedule immediately. i was found responsible for failure to comply with a university directive and given a disciplinary probation.

i know i will have to explain this to med school adcoms, and i am fine with that. however, i really dont want to think about this nonsense again after i get in. i mean...some residencies and license apps dont even ask for arrests that have occurred a long time ago. it seems excessive that an undergraduate record would matter at all

thanks for the response

 

[aspiring20]

and since u used to be an adcom member...

do u know of any residency programs that asks for undergrad disciplinary records?

 

[aspiring20]

nothing more.

i never mentioned the girl by name, and i've never said anything explicit or threatening. i did say that i want to bring her down with any means legally available...something like that. and i mentioned suicide in there somewhere. it was pretty intense stuff, and the statements didnt get me into trouble. failing to attend and then immediately reschedule an appointment did.

since most of u are med students, do u know whether residencies ask for undergrad records? i looked at several states licensing requirements, and most dont ask for undergraduate disciplinary records, unless they are criminal in nature.

thanks

 

[aspiring20]

my stats right now are pretty decent/good...and i am not picky which MD school i get in...as long as it gives an MD and is located in America. I dont want to carry 200k debt only to have difficulty getting a residency/license. if i get stopped from going into med school, then that's not a huge deal. but if i cant get a residency/license because of this undergraduate record, then that will be devastating.

 

[raltima07]

This was you being lazy if you didn't reschedule...

 

[pingouin]

This thread really does belong in Pre-Allo since the OP has not yet applied to medical school. Sorry you didn't get the answers you wanted earlier- I'm merging it with the original threads (that's right, all three of the others).

 

[LizzyM]

You may be asked to dredge up your past history on many occasions. That said, your history may not hold you back after you've disclosed it. (I know a few licensed physicians who have had to disclose their arrests and jail time from anti-war protests while in college.)

Let's consider people who have done very bad things and who shouldn't be licensed to be "true positives". What happens is that the disclosure form picks up many "false positives" in order not to miss those true positives. Some of the things that I would consider to be a impediment to licensure would be narcotics trafficking, child abuse, elder abuse, sex crimes, domestic violence, insurance fraud (committed, for example, when one was employed as a non-physician administrator of a facility). If a med school let someone matriculate despite that record, a state might take issue with it and deny a license.

 

[cdm3413]

I have a quick question.

The campus police searched my dorm room for weapons. I consented. Of course I didnt have anything illegal and obviously, nothing was found. Nothing negative came out of the search at all: no disciplinary action, no arrest, no citation, nothing. My criminal record is completely clean.

When answer the background question on both the primary and secondary applications, of course I can say No because i have never been arrested or charged with anything in my life. But I wonder if medical schools somehow finds out about the police search, and they going to get angry and accuse me of withholding information? I am not obligated to reveal anything that wasn't asked for, and obviously, no one asks for "police interactions that led to nothing".

I've contacted a dean at my school and he told me to answer No with confidence, and I know No is the right answer. However, I always have this illogical fear that med schools are going to kick me out/revoke my degree if they find out about the search. I feel that if medical school finds out about ANYTHING that you didn't report, you could get into trouble. I am just being paranoid, right? This is my very first post on SDN and thanks to all who responds!

If you thought this was a viable outcome, you're not smart enough to become a doctor.

 

[aspiring20]

thanks for all the responses

i agree that i am over reacting a bit, and i know what i have isnt a big deal at all. an undergraduate disciplinary action that isn't related to drugs/alcohol, dishonesty, or criminal violation shouldnt be much of an issue at all - this i understand.

while i dont know for a fact, i am pretty sure that most residencies and license apps dont ask for you to disclose undergraduate disciplinary records, unless they also resulted in criminal actions such as arrests and convictions. I dont have any criminal record - no arrest or anything greater, so background checks wont be an issue.

so in the grand scheme of things, i know i will be fine. however, with so much on the line, i think it is reasonable for me to feel a little anxiety and paranoia.

regardless, i will truthfully reveal and discuss this issue with medical schools, and hopefully, they wont ever be asked for again. i do need to make sure that i dont get any disciplinary actions in medical school, because that will certainly follow me for life...