[Help Needed] Inpatient Hospital Pharmacy

Started by Got Em
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Got Em

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I've been working as a retail pharmacist for the past 2 years and I'm starting a PRN Inpatient/Outpatient hospital job pretty soon. I walked around the pharmacy and the director was showing me order entry, IV bags, pyxis, etc...and I started noticed how much I don't know about this job.

Does anybody have articles or PDF files on commonly used IV bags/combos, or maybe even a summary of what exactly happens and what I need to know in the inpatient world? I have ZERO experience in this outside of the few rotation sites that I've been on.
 
Every hospital is going to stock something different, and the list of what's manufactured, what needs to be compounded, what's on backorder, etc. changes constantly.
 
I've been working as a retail pharmacist for the past 2 years and I'm starting a PRN Inpatient/Outpatient hospital job pretty soon. I walked around the pharmacy and the director was showing me order entry, IV bags, pyxis, etc...and I started noticed how much I don't know about this job.

Does anybody have articles or PDF files on commonly used IV bags/combos, or maybe even a summary of what exactly happens and what I need to know in the inpatient world? I have ZERO experience in this outside of the few rotation sites that I've been on.

Here are some tips based on my experience working at a small (10-20 occupied beds at a given time) critical care hospital. Some may or may not apply to you depending on the size of the hospital or the scope of your job duties, but hopefully you can glean some information about workflow and responsibilities.

Get in to work, answer drug info messages and stat orders on the answering machine if applicable, start checking/entering orders, check to see that the techs have compiled the appropriate pyxis meds from a pyxis refill list (ie check to see everything is there). Check techs iv bag work. Enter more orders. field drug info questions. Take angry nurses' calls. Take impatient doctors' stat call in orders. Re-check pyxis in the afternoon along with another set of iv bags. Of course there re also the dosing tasks , which you may or may not need to be familiar with depending on the position (TPN formulation if your hospital doesnt use an outside service, filling out forms regarding vanco dosing following the clinical algorithms, following up with lab companies to get applicable results). Probably spend time some time phoning local outpatient pharmacies or the hospital's outpatient pharmacy to work on discharge related issues (insurance related drug switching for instance). Other tasks mixed into your free time / downtime would include med rec, and or following up on pyxis alerts, such as yelling at the nurses for doing too many pyxis overrides and following up on discrepancies with the medication administration records (discrepancies between the MAR and the pxyis dispensing logs, narcotics counts, etc).

Look up the IV compounding of high risk drugs / safety alert type drugs. You will probably be using trissels extensively your first month or two until you get the hang of all of the compounding basics. Remember to look for particulates in TPN solutions before sending them to the floors.

Pharmacists at my hospital needed to be able to make determinations routinely about stability.. techs and pharmacists labeled each bag as to its expiration after we made them, often times involving use of trissels or online DI resources, but sometimes we searched primary literature to back up our claims for extended stability. Keeping in mind that nurses often leave bags sitting out unrefrigerated even when they are supposed to be refrigerated , of course.

I'd look up which drugs can only be mixed in plastic (the name is eluding me right now) iv bags compared to the typical rubberized iv bags. Also theres a few common tech errors you may encounter that could pose safety risks, such as mixing bicarb ampules into NS (too hypertonic, needs d5), bags that need to be stored away from light that arent, look alike/sound alike errors, etc, bags that are sent up without the appropriate micron filters (common where i worked, for example TPN and ambisome).

Just my 2c from hospital tech experience. Of course you probably already knew most of this but hopefully at least something is helpful.

Tips:

Get techs to answer the phones as much as possible. Most times callers wont need a licensed pharmacist to answer their question and will just waste your time. Make sure you or your techs write down important stat call ins so that they are not forgotten. You'll need to learn to differentiate between annoyed nurses who claim that their request is an emergency (when it really isnt) and people who are in actual need of a stat delivery. Don't let the nurses overwhelm you with impatient requests. Being able to courteously dismiss and reassure someone that you'll help them on the phone is a good skill to have in this situation.

Be able to prioritize what your techs are working on at a given time. Compounding such as ambisome may take a half hour to make, so if you get the call or the printout and have your tech start making the dose 5 minutes before it is due, it will not be able to be delivered on time. Also, you'll find out that some abx take 10-15 minutes to dissolve in their vials before they can be compounded, which can screw up a stat order situation as well.

Find out what drug information database your hospital subscribes to and be familiar with how to quickly navigate it. Know when *not* to use it. For example, a very large percentage of compounding instructions can be located in the package insert for the IV vials.

Also. When a nurse calls about running out of insulin vials (or a few other things), 80+% of the time it is bogus. . At our hospital, it didnt matter how many vials we took up, practically ALL of them would be pocketed by the nurses (or moved to the nursing carts) by the end of the day. >:O This is why it's good to have techs answer the phones, a lot of your calls will be about a missing medication. Your standard response will/should be "go check the drawers and the carts". Repeat this enough times (sometimes it takes 100 times) , and eventually they will start doing their own work instead of asking you to enable their laziness. Not to slam nurses in general, as they are great people and important healthcare system assets, but they WILL try to take advantage of you, especially if they learn that you're new.
 
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I'd look up which drugs can only be mixed in plastic (the name is eluding me right now) iv bags compared to the typical rubberized iv bags.

If you're talking about the non-PVC bags instead of silicone, amiodarone has to always go in a non-PVC bag. There's another one that we don't make very often that does, too. Cyclosporine?

Get techs to answer the phones as much as possible. Most times callers wont need a licensed pharmacist to answer their question and will just waste your time.

That might depend on the hospital. Nurses can message us through Epic if they're missing something, so most of the calls that actually come into our satellite are for the pharmacists.

Also, you'll find out that some abx take 10-15 minutes to dissolve in their vials before they can be compounded, which can screw up a stat order situation as well.

I'm looking at you, Cubicin! 😡

Not to slam nurses in general, as they are great people and important healthcare system assets, but they WILL try to take advantage of you, especially if they learn that you're new.

👍 They do this to our new pharmacists ALL THE TIME. Have some cajones to tell them what's up. I'll call them to tell them they already have the dose they claim they're missing, and I make them check the med room while I hold. They'll come back, "oh the tech must have just brought it". "No ma'am, I'm the tech and I brought it two hours ago." 🙄
 
👍 They do this to our new pharmacists ALL THE TIME. Have some cajones to tell them what's up. I'll call them to tell them they already have the dose they claim they're missing, and I make them check the med room while I hold. They'll come back, "oh the tech must have just brought it". "No ma'am, I'm the tech and I brought it two hours ago." 🙄

This bothers a lot of the people I work with, but personally it doesn't bother me much. If the nurse wants to save face by blaming me, let her. Everyone who matters knows I wouldn't leave a patient waiting for their meds. 🙄

Happens quite a bit with refrigerated products.
"Where's my vanco?!"
"In the fridge"
"No it's not, I just looked!"
"Please look one more time, if it's not there I will bring one to you"
"OK found it. About time you brought it out."

Or even better they will claim that they went and looked again and it was not there. So I go out, grab it out of the fridge and bring it to them. "See, I told you that you didn't bring it out!" :laugh:


I hardly ever fight with nursing, it just isn't worth it. Plus I figure anyone who does what they do deserves a little bit of slack. Plus it cuts both ways, I have had techs swear that went in looked in the returned meds draw and it was empty. I go out and look and find exactly what I was looking for (literally the only thing in the drawer). Anyone can have a stupid moment, few people want to own up to it.
 
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This bothers a lot of the people I work with, but personally it doesn't bother me much. If the nurse wants to save face by blaming me, let her. Everyone who matters knows I wouldn't leave a patient waiting for their meds. 🙄

Happens quite a bit with refrigerated products.
"Where's my vanco?!"
"In the fridge"
"No it's not, I just looked!"
"Please look one more time, if it's not there I will bring one to you"
"OK found it. About time you brought it out."

Or even better they will claim that they went and looked again and it was not there. So I go out, grab it out of the fridge and bring it to them. "See, I told you that you didn't bring it out!" :laugh:


I hardly ever fight with nursing, it just isn't worth it. Plus I figure anyone who does what they do deserves a little bit of slack. Plus it cuts both ways, I have had techs swear that went in looked in the returned meds draw and it was empty. I go out and look and find exactly what I was looking for (literally the only thing in the drawer). Anyone can have a stupid moment, few people want to own up to it.

I've gotten into quite a few with nursing especially with refrigerated meds and narc drips. I am not a confrontational person (at least not most of the time), but I'll be damned if I am gonna allow anyone to berate me when I know I didn't do anything wrong.🙄

Most of the nurses I work with are cool though.😉
 
I've gotten into quite a few with nursing especially with refrigerated meds and narc drips. I am not a confrontational person (at least not most of the time), but I'll be damned if I am gonna allow anyone to berate me when I know I didn't do anything wrong.🙄

Most of the nurses I work with are cool though.😉

That's the part that doesn't really bother me. As long as I know I did everything right, I don't care what others think. Of course I want my boss to know too, but I have no doubt that she would trust me over an irate nurse any day so I don't worry about that.

This is just my opinion, but fighting over whose fault it is just makes both parties look bad. I just ignore it mostly, once the drug has been found/replaced. "Fogging" is an excellent technique I like to use when confronted by an irrational nurse. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. The trick is to not respond emotionally and just let the irrational person run out of steam. The hard part is making sure not to escalate the situation any further.

And I agree, most nurses are great. Interestingly, the nurses that make trouble with pharmacy are not well liked by the rest of the nursing staff, at least at my hospital. My guess is that people that like to make trouble with pharmacy do the same everywhere else as well.
 
If you're talking about the non-PVC bags instead of silicone, amiodarone has to always go in a non-PVC bag. There's another one that we don't make very often that does, too. Cyclosporine?


I'm looking at you, Cubicin! 😡

Ah,, amiodarone was my first thought, but I decided not to mention it since it's rare that amiodarone bags are made, usually when I think of this drug I think of those single use ampules for emergencies. Now that I think about it, it was definitely cyclosporine that I mixed in the special crinkly plastic type bags.

And thanks for bringing up my old friend cubicin!! i knew it!!!! I was thinking .. "its not tygacil or zosyn, those are pretty good for dissolution"... Damn cubicin!!!

Im looking forward to re-learning this stuff during my hospital internship this summer. Your post brought back the good old days hehe. Thanks 👍
 
We use a ton of amiodarone. Also, lorazepam goes in the special bag as does tacro. Erythromycin can take a bit to reconstitute, too unless you shake the **** out of it for a while. But, yeah, cubicin is the culprit most of the time when the nurses are like "I requested my abx 30 minutes ago!!!!!!!"
 
And I agree, most nurses are great. Interestingly, the nurses that make trouble with pharmacy are not well liked by the rest of the nursing staff, at least at my hospital. My guess is that people that like to make trouble with pharmacy do the same everywhere else as well.

:highfive:

That's true for doctors as well. More than once, I've even seen a troublemaking doctor's name on the police blotter for domestic violence. 😱

Ceftriaxone takes a while to reconstitute too. I remember one emergency admission of a baby suspected of having meningitis, and the doctor insisted on the Rocephin first, and I told him that he'd be getting the ampicillin first because of the time it takes to dissolve. He was rather put out about it, but I told him that's just how it was going to be. 🙄

At my last job, most of the Cubicin was used by people who were coming in for outpatient infusions, and because of the cost, we didn't make it until the floor called. Xolair also takes a while to reconstitute.
 
That's the part that doesn't really bother me. As long as I know I did everything right, I don't care what others think. Of course I want my boss to know too, but I have no doubt that she would trust me over an irate nurse any day so I don't worry about that.

This is just my opinion, but fighting over whose fault it is just makes both parties look bad. I just ignore it mostly, once the drug has been found/replaced. "Fogging" is an excellent technique I like to use when confronted by an irrational nurse. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. The trick is to not respond emotionally and just let the irrational person run out of steam. The hard part is making sure not to escalate the situation any further.

And I agree, most nurses are great. Interestingly, the nurses that make trouble with pharmacy are not well liked by the rest of the nursing staff, at least at my hospital. My guess is that people that like to make trouble with pharmacy do the same everywhere else as well.


A lot of the stuff I will brush off, but if a nurse is gonna be screaming at me in front of the entire unit...:nono: If a nurse is upset because we were late on taking a med down to the unit or whatever and the patient had to be waiting for them to administer the med, that would be a different story. The nurses that tend to give pharmacy a hard time are very condescending. That being said, I tend to get along well with my department and most of the nurses.😀
 
We use a ton of amiodarone. Also, lorazepam goes in the special bag as does tacro. Erythromycin can take a bit to reconstitute, too unless you shake the **** out of it for a while. But, yeah, cubicin is the culprit most of the time when the nurses are like "I requested my abx 30 minutes ago!!!!!!!"


Doesn't IVIG take some time as well? 😕 I can't remember.
 
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Or even better they will claim that they went and looked again and it was not there. So I go out, grab it out of the fridge and bring it to them. "See, I told you that you didn't bring it out!" :laugh:

If it gets to the point where I have to go and pull it out of the fridge for them, I make a small scene just to embarrass them a little bit.

It's not that I like to pick battles with our nursing staff, but when they don't do their job it just wastes my time. I'm too busy to hold everyone's hand and ask them to check their med room every time they're missing something. I was really nice and willing to drop everything and help with missing doses when I was new, but over time I've started putting my foot down once I realized how little it's the pharmacy's fault.

And I don't want to make it sound like all of our nurses are bad. We of course have some really good ones, too, but the bad ones just ruin it for everyone.
 
We use a ton of amiodarone. Also, lorazepam goes in the special bag as does tacro. Erythromycin can take a bit to reconstitute, too unless you shake the **** out of it for a while. But, yeah, cubicin is the culprit most of the time when the nurses are like "I requested my abx 30 minutes ago!!!!!!!"

We use a lot of amiodarone as well. I'm not gonna lie, I was a little happy when erythromycin went on back order just because it meant one less annoying thing to have to reconstitute.
 
We use a lot of amiodarone as well. I'm not gonna lie, I was a little happy when erythromycin went on back order just because it meant one less annoying thing to have to reconstitute.

They found us some erythromycin so we are stuck with it. And the only ones they could get us are those stupid ones with the plunger things that pop off if you put too much pressure. 🙄
 
Although type B pharm.D covered the areas you need to pay attention
I will add somethings as well which might be helpful.
For chemo drugs some drugs requires to be in non pvc I/V bags such as docetaxel, paclitaxel (Usually the hospital will have a list for your reference)
Chemo drugs require different handling i am sure you know that but just wanted to remind you
Cyclophosamide takes time to reconstitute
For TPN Look for lab values to determine the right amount of electrolytes etc
 
They found us some erythromycin so we are stuck with it. And the only ones they could get us are those stupid ones with the plunger things that pop off if you put too much pressure. 🙄

Those suck!

Also the missing drugs calls are a major sore point for me. Have them look and call you back. 8/10 they find it. Yesterday they lost a Banana bag on me....good thing MVI is plentiful. 🙄
 
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