HELP Please. Osteopathic Anesthesia Board Acceptance

[Idiopathic]

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ETCo2, don't get down but hypothetically, if someone got accepted to an MD med school and a DO med school which one would you choose?; a no brainer in my book, the MD med school. Sorry if this causes you depression and you need not respect me for I'm not your Daddy... Warmest regards ---Zip

Plenty of people make a choice. I chose DO over MD for location/family reasons. I had the grades/scores necessary and had more than one MD acceptance. It strikes people as odd, I suppose, but the ends have justified the means. I may have to struggle a little more and risked not getting interviewed at the meccas of medical training, but I have plenty of skins to back up my medical education/proficiency. Im not being defensive, I actually agree with you somewhat, Im just saying there are more and more of us out there who chose this path, and there is more to life than the letters.

 

[davvid2700]

I knew a DO who couldn't pass the oral ABA exam and he took it twice so he got frustrated and got AOA certified on his first try. Nobody's 1st option is a DO med school. The smart premed student who can't get into a US allopathic med school should look into a med school that puts a MD behind his name and not a DO. Why? ---less hassles. All the books you learn about medicine in most fields are written by MDs and not DOs or CRNAs. I'll go back in my hole.... Regards,---Zippy

I cant believe im reading a post like this. There are plenty of MDs who cant pass the ABA oral boards either. WHy would you think that DO is alesser degree if you train with them in residency and they spend the same amount of time in training. Is it because when you took your dermatology elective they took their (i dont know.. manipulation elective). because you did a month of derm somehow you are a superior physician ..

 

[VentdependenT]

This horse is friggen dead quit beating it folks.

 

[me454555]

Vent,

just close the thread. Mil made a great post at the end of that hashed the point out well. Theres has been plenty of discussion and I don't think theres much usefullness left in the responses

 

[me454555]

Vent,

just close the thread. Mil made a great post at the end of that hashed the point out well. Theres has been plenty of discussion and I don't think theres much usefullness left in the responses

 

[blotto geltaco]

Long as I have been a member of this board, the old MD/DO argument always manages to rear it's ugly head sometimes. Please die thread.

 

[toughlife]

ETCo2, don't get down but hypothetically, if someone got accepted to an MD med school and a DO med school which one would you choose?; a no brainer in my book, the MD med school. Sorry if this causes you depression and you need not respect me for I'm not your Daddy ...

sorry but I could't help it

 

[ragda26]

http://www.asahq.org/Newsletters/2002/4_02/unruh.htm

Osteopathic physicians: Our committee became interested in examining numbers of osteopathic physicians practicing anesthesiology. Lydia A. Conlay, M.D., Ph.D., and Michael S. O'Connor, M.D., provided us with information about this topic. Currently, ASA membership includes 973 D.O.s (4 percent of current members) who trained in accredited residency programs. An informal survey of SAAC/AAPD members (87 percent response reporting on 80 percent of current residents) revealed that 163 residents (5.2 percent) currently in allopathic training programs are D.O.s. In the 2001 residency match statistics, 107 D.O.s matched into allopathic residency programs, representing 11 percent of incoming residents.

In addition to D.O.s entering the field of anesthesiology from allopathic residency programs, there also are 11 osteopathic programs in anesthesiology. The Committee on Postdoctoral Training of the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) accredits these programs. At present, they have 49 available training spots of which 17 are filled. There are approximately 11,000 students in the 19 osteopathic medical schools in the United States. The board certification process for these D.O.s is offered through the American Osteopathic Board of Anesthesiology. Its organizational and political association (similar to ASA) is the American Osteopathic College of Anesthesiologists, which currently lists 700 active members.

Best thing is just do a Goole search on "American Osteopathic Board of Anesthesiology" and you will see all the opportunies you have!

If you really unsire call the main office: they can def send u a listing of all the sites and STATS.
American Osteopathic Board of Anesthesiology

(Established 1956)

Chairman
Jeremy Krock, D.O.

Vice-Chairman
Toni R. Smith, D.O.

Secretary-Treasurer
Larry Davis, D.O.

Corresponding Secretary:
Sallie C. Vazzano
6500 NW Tower Drive, Suite 13
Kansas City, MO 64151
(816) 584-2622
FAX: (816) 584-2620

 

[Heme/Onc]

Get into a hiring position and hire some DO's.

All kidding aside. For whatever reason, you really aren't reading my threads. You seem to want to take everything I say and spin it in the negative way. (perhaps a sign of insecurity....always thinking someone is out to diss you??)

There is a bell curve of distribution of skills and abilities in any anesthesia provider....MD/DO/CRNA or whatever.

It is generally accepted that physicians' bell curve of skills/knowledge/etc. would be more to the right as compared to CRNAs...but there is overlap.

And I'm telling you....MD's bell curve is to the right of DO's....just simply based on the acceptance standards into the different schools. Whether you want to believe it or not....it is easier to get into DO schools than MD schools. A fact that is stated by many DO's that I know....

There is overlap, but the bell curves are not the same.

As for someone I know.....I work with someone right now who trained in anesthesia at Vanderbilt and is AOA certified.

For those in the know...explain that to me.

Although allopathic schools may have higher admission standards(on average) you are generalizing, which is extremely dangerous and unfair to do. You are perpetuating a mindset that allows one to extrapolate statistics based on a group to the individual working in the hospital, ER, or the OR....This is most unfair as this individual may be hardworking, intelligent, or even gifted....this prejudicial ideology empowers a person to treat those different (certain race, religion, or medical degree) without care or respect to the individual. You should afford others the respect and chance that you yourself would want.

Moreover, we all know there are many reasons why people choose DO schools as well as a myriad of reasons why people did not do stellar on the MCAT (including myself but somehow I managed to score in the 99% on my boards) or had slightly lower GPAs....these reasons do not neccessarily mean someone is of lesser intelligence or ultimately received a poorer quality of medical education. Furthermore, never has there been any reputible studies that show a correlation between MCAT/GPAs and clinical excellence/competency.....

JUST GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND AFTER WORKING WITH THEM!

 

[militarymd]

Although allopathic schools may have higher admission standards(on average) you are generalizing, which is extremely dangerous and unfair to do. You are perpetuating a mindset that allows one to extrapolate statistics based on a group to the individual working in the hospital, ER, or the OR....This is most unfair as this individual may be hardworking, intelligent, or even gifted....this prejudicial ideology empowers a person to treat those different (certain race, religion, or medical degree) without care or respect to the individual. You should afford others the respect and chance that you yourself would want.

Moreover, we all know there are many reasons why people choose DO schools as well as a myriad of reasons why people did not do stellar on the MCAT (including myself but somehow I managed to score in the 99% on my boards) or had slightly lower GPAs....these reasons do not neccessarily mean someone is of lesser intelligence or ultimately received a poorer quality of medical education. Furthermore, never has there been any reputible studies that show a correlation between MCAT/GPAs and clinical excellence/competency.....

JUST GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND AFTER WORKING WITH THEM!

As an employer, I have to evaluate whether to hire someone based on:
1) letters of recommendation (worthless...they all say great things)
2) an interview where I meet and talk with him/her for a couple hours
3) an interview dinner where I can observe him/her with his/her spouse interact with my spouse and other partner's and their spouses.
4) board scores

I do not use DO/MD to differentiate. I simply pointed out that I have a DO with me right now who did not pass the widely accepted boards and went to the other boards, but pass himself off as "board-certified"

Residency selection is the same way....they look at your scores, but the reality is that many DOs do score lower.

I was involved in residency selection in 5 years, I voted for and was an advocate for many DOs....if their scores are good.

 

[me454555]

I do not use DO/MD to differentiate. I simply pointed out that I have a DO with me right now who did not pass the widely accepted boards and went to the other boards, but pass himself off as "board-certified"

Residency selection is the same way....they look at your scores, but the reality is that many DOs do score lower.

I was involved in residency selection in 5 years, I voted for and was an advocate for many DOs....if their scores are good

This is really all we ask for as DOs, look at our scores, not the letters after our name.

 

[toughlife]

As an employer, I have to evaluate whether to hire someone based on:

1) letters of recommendation (worthless...they all say great things)
2) an interview where I meet and talk with him/her for a couple hours
3) an interview dinner where I can observe him/her with his/her spouse interact with my spouse and other partner's and their spouses.
4) board scores

I do not use DO/MD to differentiate. I simply pointed out that I have a DO with me right now who did not pass the widely accepted boards and went to the other boards, but pass himself off as "board-certified"

Residency selection is the same way....they look at your scores, but the reality is that many DOs do score lower.

I was involved in residency selection in 5 years, I voted for and was an advocate for many DOs....if their scores are good.

Good info. Is this usually the case as far as landing a job?

 

[militarymd]

Good info. Is this usually the case as far as landing a job?

It is the case if there is no other common links between your potential employer and you.

Frequently there is somethings....they know someone who knows you....they trained where you trained, etc...however, in a case where there is absolutely nothing in common, that is how the process goes....at least for me when I was looking for a job, and now that I'm hiring.

 

[Heme/Onc]

Get into a hiring position and hire some DO's.

All kidding aside. For whatever reason, you really aren't reading my threads. You seem to want to take everything I say and spin it in the negative way. (perhaps a sign of insecurity....always thinking someone is out to diss you??)

There is a bell curve of distribution of skills and abilities in any anesthesia provider....MD/DO/CRNA or whatever.

It is generally accepted that physicians' bell curve of skills/knowledge/etc. would be more to the right as compared to CRNAs...but there is overlap.

And I'm telling you....MD's bell curve is to the right of DO's....just simply based on the acceptance standards into the different schools. Whether you want to believe it or not....it is easier to get into DO schools than MD schools. A fact that is stated by many DO's that I know....

There is overlap, but the bell curves are not the same.

As for someone I know.....I work with someone right now who trained in anesthesia at Vanderbilt and is AOA certified.

For those in the know...explain that to me.

I am really not trying to start a fight here. I respect everyone on these boards but just imagine that you trade the letters DO for any racial or ethnic group. I do appreciate your advocacy of DOs in the past and I think you are a good person but I also think that I do have a valid point. No hard feelings

 

[militarymd]

....you trade the letters DO for any racial or ethnic group. .....

You're absolutely right....and that is why affirmative action harms minorities....the same way alternative boards harm DOs.

Everyone should be on a level playing field when applying for a position.

 

[VentdependenT]

You're absolutely right....and that is why affirmative action harms minorities....the same way alternative boards harm DOs.

Everyone should be on a level playing field when applying for a position.

I couldn't agree more. Thats why I'm an advocate of osteopaths taking the USMLE if they wish to apply to allopathic residencies.

 

[toughlife]

I am really not trying to start a fight here. I respect everyone on these boards but just imagine that you trade the letters DO for any racial or ethnic group. I do appreciate your advocacy of DOs in the past and I think you are a good person but I also think that I do have a valid point. No hard feelings

I would trade them for being chinese. Those mofos are kicking ass and in 20 years they will be #1. Don't believe me? Go to shanghai and see why they call it "The new New York".

 

[Heme/Onc]

You're absolutely right....and that is why affirmative action harms minorities....the same way alternative boards harm DOs.

Everyone should be on a level playing field when applying for a position.

It seems that a DO needs to prove him/herself to you while a graduate from Harvard/Yale/John Hopkins gets a free pass (when first meeting someone). This is exactly the same as assuming competency in a caucasian and assuming the worst in a minority...... It is just plain wrong. Furthermore, you are working off of the basis that the MCAT somehow correlates into intellectual, or better yer, medical/clinical superiority, which has never been proven (and many speculate only selects for a type of physician rather than an ideal or skilled one). Moreover, my comments based on your own never concerned the COMLEX vs. USMLE (they were in response to general statements made on a segment of the physician population in this country). I do believe prejudicial statements made on any group in medicine are harmful and unfairly place the burden on the practitioner..........but I gues I am wrong, I guess from now on I will unfairly scrutinize any african american, DO, Hispanic, FMG who walks through the door (without knowing anything about them). This is not the american way (innocent until proven guilty), you are perpetuating the thought that it is safe and OK to accept the worst in people before getting to know them (rather than first assuming the best in people). Prejudging or having a notion of prejudgement in your mind before knowing someones credentials and apptitudes is wrong. I will not post anymore about this and I am sorry if I have insulted you in any way but I deeply believe in fair treatment for all.

 

[Heme/Onc]

You're absolutely right....and that is why affirmative action harms minorities....the same way alternative boards harm DOs.

Everyone should be on a level playing field when applying for a position.

It seems that a DO needs to prove him/herself to you while a graduate from Harvard/Yale/John Hopkins gets a free pass (when first meeting someone). This is exactly the same as assuming competency in a caucasian and assuming the worst in a minority...... It is just plain wrong. Furthermore, you are working off of the basis that the MCAT somehow correlates into intellectual, or better yer, medical/clinical superiority, which has never been proven (and many speculate only selects for a type of physician rather than an ideal or skilled one). Moreover, my comments based on your own never concerned the COMLEX vs. USMLE (they were in response to general statements made on a segment of the physician population in this country). I do believe prejudicial statements made on any group in medicine are harmful and unfairly place the burden on the practitioner..........but I gues I am wrong, I guess from now on I will unfairly scrutinize any african american, DO, Hispanic, FMG who walks through the door (without knowing anything about them). This is not the american way (innocent until proven guilty), you are perpetuating the thought that it is safe and OK to accept the worst in people before getting to know them (rather than first assuming the best in people). Prejudging or having a notion of prejudgement in your mind before knowing someones credentials and apptitudes is wrong. I will not post anymore about this and I am sorry if I have insulted you in any way but I deeply believe in fair treatment for all.

 

[militarymd]

Those tests exist for a reason. I use to think that Board Certification doesn't mean anything either....than I met and worked with non-board certified people......

People who say tests don't mean anything are usually the people who can't pass the tests.....just my limited experience of 12 years in medicine.

 

[bullard]

That is a pathetic analogy. People are born white or black or brown or whatever. People choose to go to DO vs MD schools (and some don't even have a choice b/c of low scores and all that jazz). That's a long way from racial discrimination.

It seems that a DO needs to prove him/herself to you while a graduate from Harvard/Yale/John Hopkins gets a free pass (when first meeting someone). This is exactly the same as assuming competency in a caucasian and assuming the worst in a minority...... It is just plain wrong. Furthermore, you are working off of the basis that the MCAT somehow correlates into intellectual, or better yer, medical/clinical superiority, which has never been proven (and many speculate only selects for a type of physician rather than an ideal or skilled one). Moreover, my comments based on your own never concerned the COMLEX vs. USMLE (they were in response to general statements made on a segment of the physician population in this country). I do believe prejudicial statements made on any group in medicine are harmful and unfairly place the burden on the practitioner..........but I gues I am wrong, I guess from now on I will unfairly scrutinize any african american, DO, Hispanic, FMG who walks through the door (without knowing anything about them). This is not the american way (innocent until proven guilty), you are perpetuating the thought that it is safe and OK to accept the worst in people before getting to know them (rather than first assuming the best in people). Prejudging or having a notion of prejudgement in your mind before knowing someones credentials and apptitudes is wrong. I will not post anymore about this and I am sorry if I have insulted you in any way but I deeply believe in fair treatment for all.

 

[zippy2u]

Heme/onc, To learn more about edumacation, race and intelligence and how it all interrelates go to www.fredoneverything.net He calls a spade a spade and isn't politically correct. The guy has been around the block a few times. He should be America's wake up call. Regards, ---Zip

 

[toughlife]

Heme/onc, To learn more about edumacation, race and intelligence and how it all interrelates go to www.fredoneverything.net He calls a spade a spade and isn't politically correct. The guy has been around the block a few times. He should be America's wake up call. Regards, ---Zip

That website is great. He tells it like it is.

 

[davvid2700]

As an employer, I have to evaluate whether to hire someone based on:
1) letters of recommendation (worthless...they all say great things)
2) an interview where I meet and talk with him/her for a couple hours
3) an interview dinner where I can observe him/her with his/her spouse interact with my spouse and other partner's and their spouses.
4) board scores

I do not use DO/MD to differentiate. I simply pointed out that I have a DO with me right now who did not pass the widely accepted boards and went to the other boards, but pass himself off as "board-certified"

Residency selection is the same way....they look at your scores, but the reality is that many DOs do score lower.

I was involved in residency selection in 5 years, I voted for and was an advocate for many DOs....if their scores are good.

Hey how do you know they will be a good anesthesiologist for your hospital based on talking with them for a few hours and observing them at dinner with his/her spouse.. What if they are single?

How do you look for references if they all say the same thing?

 

[davvid2700]

You're absolutely right....and that is why affirmative action harms minorities....the same way alternative boards harm DOs.

Everyone should be on a level playing field when applying for a position.

Do you even know why affirmative action was implemented?

( just out of curiosity)

 

[militarymd]

Hey how do you know they will be a good anesthesiologist for your hospital based on talking with them for a few hours and observing them at dinner with his/her spouse.. What if they are single?

How do you look for references if they all say the same thing?

I've read enough and written enough references that I know they are essentially meaningless.

If I find that someone, with the proper credentials, can get along with me and the staff, then things will be fine.

Proper credentials???
1) board certified by the ABA
2) completed training in an ACGME accredited residency
3) looking for a new job on his own choosing and not because he was fired.

 

[militarymd]

Do you even know why affirmative action was implemented?

( just out of curiosity)

As a minority who has been HARMED by affirmative action, I know what it is and why it is unfair to people who actually have credentials earned via hard work and diligence.

 

[davvid2700]

As a minority who has been HARMED by affirmative action, I know what it is and why it is unfair to people who actually have credentials earned via hard work and diligence.

nice avoidance...


very subtle but major avoidance.....

I tried the avoidance tactic when i was studying for my orals.. Michael Ho( the greatest oral board examiner) ate me for lunch until I learned.


I'll ask again

Do you know why affirmative action was implemented?

 

[militarymd]

nice avoidance...


very subtle but major avoidance.....

I tried the avoidance tactic when i was studying for my orals.. Michael Ho( the greatest oral board examiner) ate me for lunch until I learned.


I'll ask again

Do you know why affirmative action was implemented?

You have got to be kidding. I eat junior attendings like you for a snack after breakfast.

I'll be direct then.

Yes, I know why affirmative action was implemented.

And If I didn't....a very simple google search that I can ask my 7 year old son to do, would offer me the answer.

 

[militarymd]

It seems that a DO needs to prove him/herself to you while a graduate from Harvard/Yale/John Hopkins gets a free pass (when first meeting someone).

What free pass are you talking about? Are you going to tell me it is not harder to get into Harvard?

And like I said, I'm looknig at board scores or certification under the same process...the ABA....and if all else is equal...then you look further back.....

 

[davvid2700]

You have got to be kidding. I eat junior attendings like you for a snack after breakfast.

I'll be direct then.

Yes, I know why affirmative action was implemented.

And If I didn't....a very simple google search that I can ask my 7 year old son to do, would offer me the answer.

If you are well versed in affirmative action, why are you against it? ( hey if you mention something be prepared to defend it) regardless of what it is..

You remind me of that guy Colonel Fitts in american beauty.. do you know who im talking about?

 

[militarymd]

If you are well versed in affirmative action, why are you against it? ( hey if you mention something be prepared to defend it) regardless of what it is..

You remind me of that guy Colonel Fitts in american beauty.. do you know who im talking about?

yeah, I know who you're talking about, and I have to disagree with you on that.

I'm against AA because it is a temporary patch to a permanent problem.....and the permanent problem is that there will always be class differences in skills and expectations.

The permanent solution is for EVERYONE to learn to accept differences in skills and abilities.

 

[davvid2700]

I'm against AA because it is a temporary patch to a permanent problem.....and the permanent problem is that there will always be class differences in skills and expectations.

.

this post speaks volumes as to your frame of mind..

 

[davvid2700]

this post speaks volumes as to your frame of mind..

I hope you never run for any type of political office where your actions can affect anyone

 

[militarymd]

this post speaks volumes as to your frame of mind..

😕 😕

 

[militarymd]

I hope you never run for any type of political office where your actions can affect anyone

😕 😕

 

[davvid2700]

😕 😕

you definitely are colonel frank fitts in american beauty

 

[militarymd]

you definitely are colonel frank fitts in american beauty

I'm a gay movie star??

 

[davvid2700]

I'm a gay movie star??

You do movies?

 

[tkim]

closed.