Help! USC or Arizona?

[Namotu]

Maybe sometimes we get caught defending our school and even our decisions to boost our ego's, or feel good about ourselves. Perhaps I have done this in the past too. Or perhaps sometimes we hate the decision we've made and try to "bag" on our school. Whatever the case. Bad boards, good boards, bad clinical, good clinical etc. We all get to graduate and hopefully make a good dentist and contribute to the health of others.[/quote]

I attend SC dental, and have no regrets about coming here. However, I agree with the fact that you will become a proficient new dentist whether you graduate from USC or ASDOH. From others, I have heard the clinical experience is great at ASDOH, and I know first hand the clinical experience at SC is great. Most importantly, it's almost impossible for any of us to say which dental school is "better" or "worse". There are so many parameters to measure, and each individual is different. The only person who could tell you with 100% accuracy is someone who attended both schools, and really experienced both systems. Unfortunately, I don't think that person exists. Just know that PBL for the first two years is a great system for learning (at least the basic sciences) which you need to know for part 1. What people fail to mention is the fact that PBL usually just introduces subjects like perio, amalgam, composite, and fixed pros. We pretty much get lectured and walked thru all those "dental skills" by for the most part, great instructors. Good luck in your decision process, and congrats on your acceptances!

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[jim85213]

Is the OP still fretting over this decision...this has been going on for a while now.

 

[TeethVader]

Arizona baby! Hands down

 

[Denticized]

Arizona baby! Hands down

Wait! an SC logo says "Arizona hands down" what the hell! it's like Mel Gibson rooting for Jews!

This forum is getting weird!

 

[klfb80]

I would like to be diplomatic here instead of my usual attack mode. Not quite sure but most of what you wrote in my opinion is completely unfounded. You are entitled to your opinion and ASDOH (not AZDOH) my have came off as a superficial school to you. However I can tell you first hand what a great experience I have had here. Sure the new facilities and equipment are great but recalling most of my experience there is my least favorite thing about the school. The truth about any and every school is that they don not fit and cannot fit or cater to every persons needs or desires. The truth about ASDOH is that if you want a great education and to be stress free while doing so then this is the place. Yeah, yeah they fly many of there professors out. Well it has worked out great for my class, with absolutely no hang ups (in my opinion, others may say different, I am only speaking for me). The curriculum is not always changing at a moments notice as you have said. I don't know who has told you this but there is a schedule and it has never changed for us with out plenty of notice. And by the way as of lat week we have received full accreditation from CODA. Everyone I know at ASDOH loves it there. Now my question for you is did you even speak to one student at your interview? Or are they superficial in your opinion as well. Because if you had spoken with anyone who had first hand knowledge of the school i am sure you would have gotten a better sense of what goes on here. I'm not coming to the rescue of ASDOH by replying to your BS post. However, it's a great school and i am sorry you weren't compatible with it.

USC hands down all the way. Despite the fact that USC's dental program is expensive, probably the most expensive in the nation, and has a problem-based learning curriculum, a lot of USC dental school graduates come out as great clinicians. The downside to USC is that sometimes the professors are jerks, can play favoritism (or your TA who grades your PBL work) and like I've said, the price is too high.

azdoh, on the other hand, is such a disorganized school. They're still waiting for CODA to get back to them, and the administration there is praying their a$$es off that CODA will give them accreditation. They only show the superficial part of their dental school which are the new dental equipments and the new building. Don't let that fool you into going to arizona's dental program. But it's your choice. In addition, arizona's curriculum is always changing. You study a course for two weeks, then bam, another curriculm the week after. You better pray to God that your professor comes back to asdoh to teach if you need a letter of recommendation from him or her in the future. To the administration at azdoh, it sounds "cool" to fly in professors from other dental schools to teach the students at asdoh. But to me and some other applicants at my interview, that teaching method was a huge turn-off. I expect gavin and asdoh companies to come here to criticize what I've written about their "brand new" dental school. But heck, that's my opinion.

Anyhow, good luck with your choice. Like I've said, USC in my opinion is a better dental program than azdoh.

 

[klfb80]

Well said. Most of what you said is correct. There are only 3 didactic courses (in the first year) here that go for more than a week. Biochem is 2 weeks, Microbio is 2 weeks and head and neck anatomy is 4 weeks. Yes they do fly out professors from many meical and dental schools from around the country. Many of them have been top notch and well respected in there feilds. At the same time we have had a few really crappy instructors but once the week is up they are gone and you will not have to deal with them agian(crappy just meaning they were not great instructors.

First off, it's ASDOH. Secondly, they don't 'fly' in professors to teach for x amount of time. If you had been listening during orientation, they fly in guest speakers from other schools, and professors there are on 1 year contracts. Thus, if students like the professor, he will likely stay there (many give up their tenure at other schools to teach in Arizona). This is, in most people's opinion, the best way to get quality, caring professors.

Also, I'd like to know which schools give you an "in depth" look at their school in the short time you're there during interview day? Did you stay for a lecture at other schools? Did you talk to the entire faculty at other schools? Did you have a 1 on 1 with the dean at other schools? I doubt it, and would place my bet on most schools giving you the "usual" tour and basic curriculum information. All other information can be found out by you, via conversations with other students or faculty.

As far as the curriculum, again, if you had listened during orientation, you would have known that you are tested weekly (every monday), and that you stay on a topic not for 2 weeks, but for several weeks (please correct me if I'm wrong on this current ASDOH students; this is what I learned from talking to some of you). If this style doesn't suit you, and you would rather take many different, unrelated classes at the same time, then that is your preference. I personally would rather take classes that are related together (I used to hate finishing studying for Ochem and having to open up a physics book).

Again, to the OP, it's a matter of preference. PBL, california weather and relaxed system, higher tuition and higher housing rates for USC versus integrated curriculum, boards after the 1st year, HOT weather, all books on laptop, lower tuition, and night life not so great at Arizona. Both schools seem to have great clinics and high student morale. I have a few friends at USC and they love it there. I've spoken to AZ students and they love it there. I don't think you can go wrong on your choice. Good luck!

 

[tissy]

I have went to the Arizona several times to visit. I was having a hard time deciding over many schools. It came down to the end choosing between Michigan, USC, and Arizona. So I went to open house several weeks ago and I was just so impressed with how much the students loved it. They went out of their way to let every person at open house know that the school is GREAT!! I was completely sold after hanging out with different students. I didn't feel this at any other school. In fact, students at USC were telling me not to go there. I have a friend who is a D2 and complains about the school every time I talk to her. And KFLB80 has met with me before and gone out of his way to talk to me about my decision. He spent alot of his time on the phone with me giving me advice. The students at any school say it all. This school BEST fits me because I want to be happy for four years with classmates that are happy and faculty that care about how you feel/learning.
After careful consideration, I'm happy with my choice and know I will not regret it! One thing is that who cares what people say about any school. Every student finds out what their school is really about at the end.

 

[TeethVader]

Wait! an SC logo says "Arizona hands down" what the hell! it's like Mel Gibson rooting for Jews!

This forum is getting weird!

Hehehe, I know I'm Class of 2009 and after having experienced the USC dental program, I can say that the PO would make a big mistake if he chosed USC over Arizona. Try not to pay much attention to the SC students from the Class of 2010 since they haven't really experienced the clinical component at SC hence their judgements on the program would be not 100% accurate.

 

[pre-dentalguy]

I've recently been accepted to Arizona as of two weeks ago and having a hard time deciding on these two schools. USC or Arizona....Any advice?

I've been surfing sdn for the past months and know most of you have great advice. Thanks everyone!!

USC!!!

 

[ForgetSC]

Its the end of my 3rd year in dental school at SC. I was a non-science major coming in so of course I was very worried about boards since you don't learn anything in PBL. Studying for boards was very frustrating b/c we never learned biochem, histology, etc. So I would just sit there trying to read a biochem book but after the 4th chapter it made no sense to me. I was soooo frustrated. I didn't want to specialize so it made things a little better. But I still wish that I had a chance to do better if I had the correct foundation that should have been provided by SC. After I got my results I did better than I thought and somehow biochem was my highest score. I have no idea how that happened. Point is if you want to do exceptional on your boards this is not the school for you, b/c you have no way of really competing with the nation when your school doesn't teach you anything.

Moving on to the clinic.. I have basically been on the clinic floor for the past year. When I was studying for boards I thought that was the worst, but I really had no idea what was coming to me. There is no sense of professionalism at this school. If your a girl and happen to be sleeping with the faculty then you will most likely graduate on time. But for the rest you are faced with sexually charged comments from old nasty dentists whom you must just sit and listen to b/c you are trying to graduate too. And if you want to complain then good luck who do you complain to? Nothing gets accomplished, and you will be blacklisted b/c all of the faculty somehow end up knowing whats going on b/c they are constantly chatting about specific students when they really should be "teaching".

Besides that the main problem that every pre-dental student should ask dental schools that they are interviewing at is "WHAT IS YOUR GRADUATION RATE?" the second most important question is what are your board scores? (keep in mind that board scores are not solely based on the school, there are people in our class that did particularly well, I think one person got a 98) But graduation rate is completely out of your hand. Only 36% of the 2007 class is graduating on time. There are multiple reasons why this is true. Too many to explain here but I will mention a few.
1. Not enough faculty coverage for the number of students that are permitted to be on the clinic floor
2. The majority of the faculty that is on the clinic floor does not have the authority to sign off on fixed work so you end up prepping a crown with one faculty in one appt take a final impression on your 2nd appt and then send the lab work out. Then you spend a day or two trying to track one of the five faculty who do have the authority to sign it off only to have them tell you that there needs to be adjustments made. Then you bring the patient back but unfortunately the faculty who can sign off is rarely ever teaching on the clinic floor. Do this 5 + times until your patient gets completely fed up and doesn’t want to come back.
3. So many requirements: 30 fixed (crowns), 9 removable arches, etc..
4. Soo many comp exams on live patients who must qualify for these exams. The faculty grading are nearly impossible to pass, and it is soooo hard to find pt’s that qualify. Every day we are bombarded by seniors emailing us looking for compable crowns. They are more like begging us for these crowns.
5. Again not enough faculty to sit your patient down and do the work
6. Last week attempted to take a final impression of a crown. RDA left early (the person who takes the impressions). Tried to get the material needed from the dispensary but guess what they were all out. Brought patient back tonight only to beg every single faculty on the clinic floor to please cover me. I explained that I don’t need there assistance I have everything signed off. I just want to get a final impression. But after one hour of running around that didn’t happen. Had to send my pt. home. Apparently, 2 faculty just decided to cancel their night chairs, and of course nobody bothers to tell the poor dental students!!

Anyways, there are soooo many other reasons why this school is absolutely the most chaotic, bull****, school. We don’t even become great clinicians b/c we spend at least over 60% of our time trying to figure out how and when we could possibly bring our patients in with the few chairs that do exist. Do yourself a favor, don’t go to this school, go somewhere where you actually have a chance of learning and becoming a better dentist. Go to a school where the dean is approachable and cares what is happening to his students. Our dean will never dare walk through the clinic floor. I think he is too scared. All he would see is the majority of the students standing on line for instruments/supplies, miserable as hell. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions. Don’t forget ask about the graduation rates. b/c whats the point of getting into a specialty only to find out that you aren’t graduating on time and you will have to defer it if they will allow you to. And trust me spending most of your time worrying about graduating on time is a very miserable way to live.