Help with plans to juggle SMP with a full-time job and no MCAT?

[Blue Pistachio]

Dear whom it may concern,

Thankfully, I have gained access to very useful information on the forums. I wanted to address my situation so that I may receive advice with regards to my context. I thank you very much in advance for your valuable advice.

I enrolled at my university on a full tuition scholarship with a condition to maintain a 3.0 GPA. I made poor decisions. Younger self thought I was being clever, but proved to be a fool who did not see beyond: I received these stats.
- cGPA : 3.11
- sGPA : 2.89

Since graduating, I have worked very hard in my professional career. I have disciplined myself to get rid of the habits that yielded in my academic achievements. I have successfully advanced in various Research and Development professions spanning academia, food, and pharmaceutical industries.

After my self-redemption period, I am picking up on the dream I had of becoming a medical doctor and seeking ways to accomplish it. I have been out of school for nearly ten years, and I am aware that I need to find out if I can handle medical school curriculum.

I researched and it seems as though post-bacc, at this point and with my GPA, is not a good option. I have found some master's programs that are designed to equip students in my situation. I am working full time, and so I am thinking that an online program is suitable. I have found a few that offer 20+ months for completion.

I came up with the below plans and wanted to seek feedback.

• Option 1: Start SMP in Fall 2023 -> Prepare for MCAT in Spring 2024 -> Apply to MD program in Summer 2024 -> Finish SMP in Spring 2025
• Option 2: Prepare for MCAT in 2023 -> Start SMP in Fall 2024 -> Apply to MD program in Summer 2025 -> Finish SMP in Spring 2026
• Option 3: Start SMP in Fall 2023 -> Prepare MCAT in 2025 -> Apply to MD program in Summer 2026

I thought option 1 was good until I read that preparing for MCAT while pursuing a Master's is very difficult (Source: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention). Option 3 will enable me to fully focus on the SMP but take the longest to achieve. Option 2 is an intermediate.

How are my options and have there been others with full-time job commitment without an MCAT who have successfully navigated my situation?

Thank you very much.
BP

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[Goro]

Working while taking an SMP is a recipe for disaster. Save up your money and do a program full time.

 

[wysdoc]

I agree with @Goro. Working full time while doing an SMP is not feasible.
If you have been working full time for 10 years, have you any savings?
Could you take a loan if not?
I'm guessing you don't want to lose your job if the application to medical school doesn't work out, but maybe your employer values you and would understand an honest conversation about your wishes to pursue this goal. Parting the job on good terms could leave the door open to return to work there in the future if you need to.

 

[N3utr0ph!l]

I did my SMP while doing paid research for like 10ish hours a week. My SMP was very very very hard. I can’t imagine what my grades would’ve looked like if I worked full time. I excelled in my program because all I had to think about was my class work and my volunteer/leadership activities. I think unless you have responsibilities like children or other dependents idk if working is a good idea. I’m sure it’s possible, but you’re trying to put your best foot forward especially w/ your stats.

 

[Blue Pistachio]

Working while taking an SMP is a recipe for disaster.

Thank you Goro. SMP is divided into 5 semesters. (Fall-Spring-Summer-Fall-Spring) Most number of credit hours will be 9. How would your advice change, if at all?
I have heard that studying 27 hours per week on top of my full time job would be very difficult, but can be achieved with lots of sacrifice and supports..do you think this is being too optimistic?

 

[Blue Pistachio]

I agree with @Goro. Working full time while doing an SMP is not feasible.
If you have been working full time for 10 years, have you any savings?
Could you take a loan if not?
I'm guessing you don't want to lose your job if the application to medical school doesn't work out, but maybe your employer values you and would understand an honest conversation about your wishes to pursue this goal. Parting the job on good terms could leave the door open to return to work there in the future if you need to.

Thank you wysdoc. If I took your advice and finished the SMP in the Spring of 20XX year, when will I take the MCAT and when will I apply? I have not asked myself "why am I insisting on keeping my job while pursuing the SMP", but it is one that requires some thinking on my part. I appreciate your point.

 

[Blue Pistachio]

I did my SMP while doing paid research for like 10ish hours a week. My SMP was very very very hard. I can’t imagine what my grades would’ve looked like if I worked full time. I excelled in my program because all I had to think about was my class work and my volunteer/leadership activities. I think unless you have responsibilities like children or other dependents idk if working is a good idea. I’m sure it’s possible, but you’re trying to put your best foot forward especially w/ your stats.

Thank you N3utr0ph!l. How many credits were in each semesters? I presume that it was a 1 year long program. Did you take the MCAT after you finished SMP? It is just that I have not thought about a full time SMP yet. But your response is helping me to expand my thoughts.

 

[wysdoc]

Thank you wysdoc. If I took your advice and finished the SMP in the Spring of 20XX year, when will I take the MCAT and when will I apply? I have not asked myself "why am I insisting on keeping my job while pursuing the SMP", but it is one that requires some thinking on my part. I appreciate your point.

Some SMP programs have a MCAT prep component built in, which is a big help for studying, and the SMP program may have suggestions on when to take the test. Usually you will want to take it when you have studied the major topics, and early enough to know your score before you turn in a med school application. Think March, April, or May of the year you plan to apply. Test results come back in one month.

 

[Blue Pistachio]

Some SMP programs have a MCAT prep component built in, which is a big help for studying, and the SMP program may have suggestions on when to take the test. Usually you will want to take it when you have studied the major topics, and early enough to know your score before you turn in a med school application. Think March, April, or May of the year you plan to apply. Test results come back in one month.

Yes I am looking at SMP program with built-in MCAT prep. This would mean that I would be studying the MCAT while finishing up my last semester of SMP. Is my understand below accurate? Just want to make sure, because my initial impression from your comment was that SMP needs no other distractions.

• Full time job + SMP = unadvisable
• SMP + MCAT = advisable

 

[wysdoc]

Yes I am looking at SMP program with built-in MCAT prep. This would mean that I would be studying the MCAT while finishing up my last semester of SMP. Is my understand below accurate? Just want to make sure, because my initial impression from your comment was that SMP needs no other distractions.

• Full time job + SMP = unadvisable
• SMP + MCAT = advisable

It's pretty common for full time college students to take the MCAT at the end of Spring term, but they are not also working a full time job while doing the first 2 things.

 

[Blue Pistachio]

It's pretty common for full time college students to take the MCAT at the end of Spring term, but they are not also working a full time job while doing the first 2 things.

Thanks for clarifying. So your advice is that I fully commit to SMP.. I have not thought about this so far. This will be my option 4.

I've found University of North Texas Health Science Center (UNTHSC ) offers a SMP in Medical Sciences. They have good alumni outcomes and offer competitive tuitions for Texas resident. Thought I would add that since you are from Texas!

 

[Goro]

Thank you Goro. SMP is divided into 5 semesters. (Fall-Spring-Summer-Fall-Spring) Most number of credit hours will be 9. How would your advice change, if at all?
I have heard that studying 27 hours per week on top of my full time job would be very difficult, but can be achieved with lots of sacrifice and supports..do you think this is being too optimistic?

I have seen too many students in our SMP try to juggle work and the SMP and crash and burn, forever ruining their chances at medical school.

 

[Ellesandra319]

Dear whom it may concern,

Thankfully, I have gained access to very useful information on the forums. I wanted to address my situation so that I may receive advice with regards to my context. I thank you very much in advance for your valuable advice.

I enrolled at my university on a full tuition scholarship with a condition to maintain a 3.0 GPA. I made poor decisions. Younger self thought I was being clever, but proved to be a fool who did not see beyond: I received these stats.
- cGPA : 3.11
- sGPA : 2.89

Since graduating, I have worked very hard in my professional career. I have disciplined myself to get rid of the habits that yielded in my academic achievements. I have successfully advanced in various Research and Development professions spanning academia, food, and pharmaceutical industries.

After my self-redemption period, I am picking up on the dream I had of becoming a medical doctor and seeking ways to accomplish it. I have been out of school for nearly ten years, and I am aware that I need to find out if I can handle medical school curriculum.

I researched and it seems as though post-bacc, at this point and with my GPA, is not a good option. I have found some master's programs that are designed to equip students in my situation. I am working full time, and so I am thinking that an online program is suitable. I have found a few that offer 20+ months for completion.

I came up with the below plans and wanted to seek feedback.

• Option 1: Start SMP in Fall 2023 -> Prepare for MCAT in Spring 2024 -> Apply to MD program in Summer 2024 -> Finish SMP in Spring 2025
• Option 2: Prepare for MCAT in 2023 -> Start SMP in Fall 2024 -> Apply to MD program in Summer 2025 -> Finish SMP in Spring 2026
• Option 3: Start SMP in Fall 2023 -> Prepare MCAT in 2025 -> Apply to MD program in Summer 2026

I thought option 1 was good until I read that preparing for MCAT while pursuing a Master's is very difficult (Source: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention). Option 3 will enable me to fully focus on the SMP but take the longest to achieve. Option 2 is an intermediate.

How are my options and have there been others with full-time job commitment without an MCAT who have successfully navigated my situation?

Thank you very much.
BP

just a little advice from a first year med student who went back to pursue medicine after 5 years in the marketplace!

i can def see the value of an SMP, but with your low science GPA (can def relate), I would think you would probably need to pick up at least a few undergrad science courses to pull your UG sGPA above 3.0. many schools screen out UG sGPA <3.0 and by my understanding your SMP credits won't raise your UG sGPA.

i'll also say as someone who transitioned from the marketplace, did DIY post-bacc pre-req's, i wouldn't have wanted to jump straight into SMP without having taken some UG credits at first. its a tough transition, and given that SMP is high risk/high reward and is a kind of "mini" first year of med school, i would personally not recommend trying to make that transition with something so high risk without at least getting your proverbial academic toes back in the water first. it's just almost impossible to describe how different the level of excellence and work you need to put in to get into med school/succeed in med school.

i had a pretty similar story to you (college, wanted to do med school, worked in biomedical research, went back to pursue medicine) and this was my timeline if it helps!

january 2018 - made decision to pursue medicine, did a 6 month medical assistant course (on the weekends) while still working full-time
june 2018 - march 2020 - quit my job and did full time post bacc pre-req's at local in state university / worked as a medical assistant full time during summer and part time during school taking 9ish UG credits per semester
may 2020 - first MCAT attempt and subsequent failed app cycle
may 2021 - second MCAT attempt and subsequent successful app cycle
august 2022 - matriculated med school!

it takes work and time but i wouldn't change it a bit. i would just say going slow and performing well is so much better than trying to cram it all in and ruining your chances by doing too much!

 

[Blue Pistachio]

I have seen too many students in our SMP try to juggle work and the SMP and crash and burn, forever ruining their chances at medical school.

I appreciate your insight!! The type of cases you mentioned may not be posted around as much as success stories, so it is a very useful and weighty response.

 

[Blue Pistachio]

just a little advice from a first year med student who went back to pursue medicine after 5 years in the marketplace!

i can def see the value of an SMP, but with your low science GPA (can def relate), I would think you would probably need to pick up at least a few undergrad science courses to pull your UG sGPA above 3.0. many schools screen out UG sGPA
i'll also say as someone who transitioned from the marketplace, did DIY post-bacc pre-req's, i wouldn't have wanted to jump straight into SMP without having taken some UG credits at first. its a tough transition, and given that SMP is high risk/high reward and is a kind of "mini" first year of med school, i would personally not recommend trying to make that transition with something so high risk without at least getting your proverbial academic toes back in the water first. it's just almost impossible to describe how different the level of excellence and work you need to put in to get into med school/succeed in med school.

i had a pretty similar story to you (college, wanted to do med school, worked in biomedical research, went back to pursue medicine) and this was my timeline if it helps!

january 2018 - made decision to pursue medicine, did a 6 month medical assistant course (on the weekends) while still working full-time
june 2018 - march 2020 - quit my job and did full time post bacc pre-req's at local in state university / worked as a medical assistant full time during summer and part time during school taking 9ish UG credits per semester
may 2020 - first MCAT attempt and subsequent failed app cycle
may 2021 - second MCAT attempt and subsequent successful app cycle
august 2022 - matriculated med school!

it takes work and time but i wouldn't change it a bit. i would just say going slow and performing well is so much better than trying to cram it all in and ruining your chances by doing too much!

Thank you Ellesandra319. "The marketplace" and schoolwork are surely not one in the same, much less the medical course curriculum.

How is M1? What would you compare its course load with? How do you think your post-bacc work prepared you?

BP

 

[Ellesandra319]

Thank you Ellesandra319. "The marketplace" and schoolwork are surely not one in the same, much less the medical course curriculum.

How is M1? What would you compare its course load with? How do you think your post-bacc work prepared you?

BP

M1 has been great so far! Super hard, but super rewarding. With the exception of 1-2 classes, the material isn't hard, it's just that the course load is incomparable. It's just so much and that's the name of the game... learning how to manage so many spinning plates at once.

 

[Blue Pistachio]

M1 has been great so far! Super hard, but super rewarding. With the exception of 1-2 classes, the material isn't hard, it's just that the course load is incomparable. It's just so much and that's the name of the game... learning how to manage so many spinning plates at once.

I see.. I hope you get used to it over time! Thanks for your comments again.

BP

 

[N3utr0ph!l]

Thank you N3utr0ph!l. How many credits were in each semesters? I presume that it was a 1 year long program. Did you take the MCAT after you finished SMP? It is just that I have not thought about a full time SMP yet. But your response is helping me to expand my thoughts.

Yes, it was a 1 year program on a quarter system and I took ~18 credits per quarter. I also did a DIY postbacc. I took the MCAT twice after completing my SMP. I personally didn’t know they had part-time SMP’s!

 

[Blue Pistachio]

Yes, it was a 1 year program on a quarter system and I took ~18 credits per quarter. I also did a DIY postbacc. I took the MCAT twice after completing my SMP. I personally didn’t know they had part-time SMP’s!

That sounds like a full course load! How did the SMP prepare you for the medical school?

UNTHSC is rolling out 21 months option for their online MS in Medical Science program starting this fall.. so I was weighing on that option.

However, from the responses in this post, it seems that combining SMP and work is unadvisable..but that leaves me with concern for backup plan.

If I did quit my job to do a full time SMP, that means upon completion, I will likely have a glide year. I may be studying for the MCAT after finishing, or be applying to school. From reading on this forum I get the idea that I should be prepared for two cycles.

This would mean 3-4 years will be left hanging. What kind of fall back plan can I have? Sorry I am just thinking out loud to you, but since so many people advised against juggling both, I am not sure what to think!

BP

 

[Ellesandra319]

That sounds like a full course load! How did the SMP prepare you for the medical school?

UNTHSC is rolling out 21 months option for their online MS in Medical Science program starting this fall.. so I was weighing on that option.

However, from the responses in this post, it seems that combining SMP and work is unadvisable..but that leaves me with concern for backup plan.

If I did quit my job to do a full time SMP, that means upon completion, I will likely have a glide year. I may be studying for the MCAT after finishing, or be applying to school. From reading on this forum I get the idea that I should be prepared for two cycles.

This would mean 3-4 years will be left hanging. What kind of fall back plan can I have? Sorry I am just thinking out loud to you, but since so many people advised against juggling both, I am not sure what to think!

BP

i think the reasonable back up plan is decide how many years you can reasonably see yourself going through the post-bacc/SMP/MCAT/app cycle (knowing it might be 3-4 years till you matriculate) and worst case scenario you finish with a masters degree that will hopefully at least minimally increase your earning potential in biotech/biomedical research/etc. it's kind of a risk / reward as a non-traditional student, but i will say it does kinda force you to take it more seriously, which pays off in the end!

 

[Blue Pistachio]

i think the reasonable back up plan is decide how many years you can reasonably see yourself going through the post-bacc/SMP/MCAT/app cycle (knowing it might be 3-4 years till you matriculate) and worst case scenario you finish with a masters degree that will hopefully at least minimally increase your earning potential in biotech/biomedical research/etc. it's kind of a risk / reward as a non-traditional student, but i will say it does kinda force you to take it more seriously, which pays off in the end!

I have been weighing my options and did not find time to reply.. I really appreciate your input!!

BP

 

[chicandtoughness]

@Blue Pistachio How many years out from college are you? (When did you graduate with your bachelors?) Are you a Texas resident?

My GPA were the same as yours (actually worse lol). I started an SMP but quit midway through the first semester. It wasn’t necessary. A DIY postbac is enough if you take advanced science courses and can smash the MCAT. I worked through everything (more doable with the postbac than the SMP). I can’t imagine working and doing an SMP - the speed and volume of information was insane.

 

[chicandtoughness]

Ah wait, saw you are nearly 10 years out from college.

My dude, if you’re a Texas resident, can I interest you in a magical thing called Academic Fresh Start?

No SMP necessary.