Helping undocumented immigrants on my application ?

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KnightDoc said:
Why would you think mentioning volunteering to help anyone receive medical care would be controversial on a medical school application???
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I was worried whether a more conservative admissions board would disapprove of helping undocumented people. but I definitely would hope that it wouldn’t be perceived negatively!”
 
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kartveli said:
Through my volunteer work I have helped undocumented immigrants get various types of medical help, should I mention this on my application or is it too controversial?
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The only controversial element would be if you're providing medical care outside your scope of expertise (i,e. none). It doesn't sound like you're doing that so otherwise you're fine. Like other posters have said if an ADCOM holds that against you (unlikely IMO) you wouldn't want to go there anyway.
 
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xffan624 said:
The only controversial element would be if you're providing medical care outside your scope of expertise (i,e. none). It doesn't sound like you're doing that so otherwise you're fine. Like other posters have said if an ADCOM holds that against you (unlikely IMO) you wouldn't want to go there anyway.
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I was debating whether to even include the fact that these people I helped were illegal as I wouldn’t want to bring a controversial topic to a more conservative board, however I wanted to include the fact they were undocumented as it played into their fear of seeking medical help in the first place
 
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kartveli said:
I was worried whether a more conservative admissions board would disapprove of helping undocumented people. but I definitely would hope that it wouldn’t be perceived negatively!”
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Not at all. Humanism is the name of the game. None of their affiliated hospitals turn away people who need urgent care, regardless of ability to pay, or immigration status. Serving the underserved is a pervasive theme in admissions today, so, this will definitely be a positive, everywhere. Don't worry -- you're good! 🙂
 
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kartveli said:
Through my volunteer work I have helped undocumented immigrants get various types of medical help, should I mention this on my application or is it too controversial?
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You helped poor people get medical help. Bonus points for translating.

That's what you write about.

It's not the med school that might disapprove, but an individual screener or Adcom member or interviewer. Don't tar the school on the basis of one or two people.
 
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Goro said:
You helped poor people get medical help. Bonus points for translating.

That's what you write about.

It's not the med school that might disapprove, but an individual screener or Adcom member or interviewer. Don't tar the school on the basis of one or two people.
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Not just translate, but finding doctors, clinics, specialists, helping fill out paper work ( for COVID vaccine when asked for residency proof☺️) had to find places where this question was not asked.
thank you
 
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kartveli said:
Not just translate, but finding doctors, clinics, specialists, helping fill out paper work ( for COVID vaccine when asked for residency proof☺️) had to find places where this question was not asked.
thank you
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so you helped them avoid answering that question?
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
why do you need to mention that they are undocumented?
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I was debating whether to even include the fact that these people I helped were illegal as I wouldn’t want to bring a controversial topic to a more conservative board, however I wanted to include the fact they were undocumented as it played into their fear of seeking medical help in the first place
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
Highlighting that may have a negative impact on your application, so be careful about it.
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Thank you. I thought so...
In my original question, I just did not explain in details what I meant by helping undocumented immigrants . ☺️
 
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kartveli said:
I was debating whether to even include the fact that these people I helped were illegal as I wouldn’t want to bring a controversial topic to a more conservative board, however I wanted to include the fact they were undocumented as it played into their fear of seeking medical help in the first place
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Helping people get medical care regardless of their immigration status is not controversial. A hospital is not the immigration police and as providers we don't have a role in immigration enforcement.
 
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xffan624 said:
Helping people get medical care regardless of their immigration status is not controversial. A hospital is not the immigration police and as providers we don't have a role in immigration enforcement.
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True, but helping anyone to avoid answering truthfully is unethical and highlighting that in an application is unnecessary.
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
True, but helping anyone to avoid answering truthfully is unethical and highlighting that in an application is unnecessary.
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OP stated he was referring/linking these folks to resources where this was not a question.

I honestly can't believe any vaccination site would ask immigration status but from his description that's what he was doing. I don't see any ethical problem with this.
 
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xffan624 said:
OP stated he was referring/linking these folks to resources where this was not a question.

I honestly can't believe any vaccination site would ask immigration status but from his description that's what he was doing. I don't see any ethical problem with this.
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Agree, vaccine site shouldn’t ask about immigration status but highlighting the fact that you helped avoid answering the question is another thing. OP will be in similar situations as a medical student, resident and as a physician. He may be asked how far he will go to help patients avoid answering questions on forms.
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
Agree, vaccine site shouldn’t ask about immigration status but highlighting the fact that you helped avoid answering the question is another thing. OP will be in similar situations as a medical student, resident and as a physician. He may be asked how far he will go to help patients avoid answering questions on forms.
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Let's say your friend tells you that professor A gives good grades easier than professor B. You choose to take professor As class is it cheating ? Or in grocery store your friend directs you to to go to the side where checkout lines are smaller. Your friend helped you to cheat? Or to choose wisely?
I did helped them to find places where fewer questions were asked ( e.g social security driver license). They filled out paperwork and followed the rules. It was just less in depth questions.
 
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xffan624 said:
OP stated he was referring/linking these folks to resources where this was not a question.

I honestly can't believe any vaccination site would ask immigration status but from his description that's what he was doing. I don't see any ethical problem with this.
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All the pharmacy's were asking for Driver license number , social security number. they would still probably give you a vaccine, but it was awkward to say you had no driver license, no social security number, no primary doctor, no insurance, all you had was your foreign passport. It was making your legal status obvious. It is not comfortable to be exposed in that way, undocumented people live under the constant fear of deportation.
community centers, local government funded big places (football fields, stadiums) were asking just your name, phone, DOB. I helped to find easy, less embarrassing places for them.
 
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kartveli said:
Let's say your friend tells you that professor A gives good grades easier than professor B. You choose to take professor As class is it cheating ? Or in grocery store your friend directs you to to go to the side where checkout lines are smaller. Your friend helped you to cheat? Or to choose wisely?
I did helped them to find places where fewer questions were asked ( e.g social security driver license). They filled out paperwork and followed the rules. It was just less in depth questions.
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You're fine. I urge you to tell your story and not to listen to some of the advice you are receiving. In 2021, only the Trump University School of Medicine would have a problem with your activity.
 
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KnightDoc said:
You're fine. I urge you to tell your story and not to listen to some of the advice you are receiving. In 2021, only the Trump University School of Medicine would have a problem with your activity.
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Thank you. Not going to Trump university. I'm hoping/dreaming to get in any California school (as out of state )
 
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kartveli said:
Let's say your friend tells you that professor A gives good grades easier than professor B. You choose to take professor As class is it cheating ? Or in grocery store your friend directs you to to go to the side where checkout lines are smaller. Your friend helped you to cheat? Or to choose wisely?
I did helped them to find places where fewer questions were asked ( e.g social security driver license). They filled out paperwork and followed the rules. It was just less in depth questions.
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All I am saying is highlighting that you helped illegal immigrants to avoid answering questions on medical form is a risky move. On the other hand highlighting may help you get into CA schools 🙂 we are all about social justice.

so will you state in your application that you got high GPA because you were smart enough to take classes with professors who give out As easily? 🙂
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
Agree, vaccine site shouldn’t ask about immigration status but highlighting the fact that you helped avoid answering the question is another thing. OP will be in similar situations as a medical student, resident and as a physician. He may be asked how far he will go to help patients avoid answering questions on forms.
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I think you're stretching how much an ADCOM would assess this activity. They're helping an extremely vulnerable population navigate the complex and arbitrary medical system to access care.
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
All I am saying is highlighting that you helped illegal immigrants to avoid answering questions on medical form is a risky move. On the other hand highlighting may help you get into CA schools 🙂 we are all about social justice.

so will you state in your application that you got high GPA because you were smart enough to take classes with professors who give out As easily? 🙂
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I get the point 😀I will keep it short and sweet.
 
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xffan624 said:
I think you're stretching how much an ADCOM would assess this activity. They're helping an extremely vulnerable population navigate the complex and arbitrary medical system to access care.
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I am not stretching anything 🙂 OP is worried about how ADCOMs will see it and I am stating how it can be seen by different adcoms. people react based on their political beliefs and ADCOMs are no different.
 
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"Assisted underserved populations with limited resources to acquire access to medical care by locating relevant providers, assisting with paperwork and scheduling, translating."

saying underserved/limited resources says it's likely a minority or otherwise restricted community without being specific. the name of the organization plus the language will likely give away the rest.
 
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stinkycheeseperson said:
"Assisted underserved populations with limited resources to acquire access to medical care by locating relevant providers, assisting with paperwork and scheduling, translating."

saying underserved/limited resources says it's likely a minority or otherwise restricted community without being specific. the name of the organization plus the language will likely give away the rest.
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Couldn’t have said it better myself.
xffan624 said:
The only controversial element would be if you're providing medical care outside your scope of expertise (i,e. none). It doesn't sound like you're doing that so otherwise you're fine. Like other posters have said if an ADCOM holds that against you (unlikely IMO) you wouldn't want to go there anyway.
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Somewhat condescending to assume every premed student has no healthcare expertise. Plenty of people are EMTs, nurses, RTs, etc before med school.
 
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stinkycheeseperson said:
"Assisted underserved populations with limited resources to acquire access to medical care by locating relevant providers, assisting with paperwork and scheduling, translating."

saying underserved/limited resources says it's likely a minority or otherwise restricted community without being specific. the name of the organization plus the language will likely give away the rest.
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Thank you so much.
I've orginezed group of 10 people, created a website, put info on different social media/ local cultural places, churches.(no big organization, no name dropping) Language is not typically associated with illegal emigrants( Eastern European) helped approximately 500 people. Some of them I drove myself to the doctors appointments, vaccine sites ( lack of transportation)
 
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"Assisted underserved populations with limited resources to acquire access to medical care by locating relevant providers, assisting with paperwork and scheduling, transportation, outreach/social media, organizing volunteers, translating."

Do not add translating or the language to your app unless you can have a conversation about real life in it, adcoms can and have asked, especially if you end up in an area where there is an enclave for that group.
 
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kartveli said:
Thank you so much.
I've orginezed group of 10 people, created a website, put info on different social media/ local cultural places, churches.(no big organization, no name dropping) Language is not typically associated with illegal emigrants( Eastern European) helped approximately 500 people. Some of them I drove myself to the doctors appointments, vaccine sites ( lack of transportation)
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Are you applying to U Chicago?
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
Are you applying to U Chicago?
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I'm not sure yet, it's out of state for me and hard to get in. Depends on my Mcat score. My GPA is okay for now 3.9. I'm an EMT.Volunteer, research, clinical good. Tutoring physics this fall. No leadership/no clubs in school. No shadowing yet.( hard to get)
 
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kartveli said:
I'm not sure yet, it's out of state for me and hard to get in. Depends on my Mcat score. My GPA is okay for now 3.9. I'm an EMT.Volunteer, research, clinical good. Tutoring physics this fall. No leadership/no clubs in school. No shadowing yet.( hard to get)
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It's a private school.
 
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If you have knowledge and experience dealing with people who speak a language uncommon in the US, you might get more traction in cities where there are enclaves of that language group. Your knowledge of culture and language will be seen as an asset in that environment.

Also, learn to say "undocumented" rather than "illegal". Worse, in my opinion, to set a liberal's teeth on edge with "illegal" than to use the word "undocumented" regardless of whether some consider it a controversial word.
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
It's a private school.
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I know, I've applied as undergrad there 🙂 I would be honored to get in uchicago, but realistically my chances would be so low. I don't come from wealthy family, so I can't apply to 40 schools.i have to pick more realistic schools and schools where my heart and soul is ( California)
I got into UCLA and Berkeley as undergrad but I chose to go to my state school ( Free vs 240k Berkeley vs 100ucla ) I regret my dicision now.
 
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LizzyM said:
If you have knowledge and experience dealing with people who speak a language uncommon in the US, you might get more traction in cities where there are enclaves of that language group. Your knowledge of culture and language will be seen as an asset in that environment.

Also, learn to say "undocumented" rather than "illegal". Worse, in my opinion, to set a liberal's teeth on edge with "illegal" than to use the word "undocumented" regardless of whether some consider it a controversial word.
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How about sticking to helping underserved population with English as foreign language instead of bringing immigration status into the application?
 
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kartveli said:
I know, I've applied as undergrad there 🙂 I would be honored to get in uchicago, but realistically my chances would be so low. I don't come from wealthy family, so I can't apply to 40 schools.i have to pick more realistic schools and schools where my heart and soul is ( California)
I got into UCLA and Berkeley as undergrad but I chose to go to my state school ( Free vs 240k Berkeley vs 100ucla ) I regret my dicision now.
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You did right thing by not picking UCLA or UCB for undergrad as a premed.
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
How about sticking to helping underserved population with English as foreign language instead of bringing immigration status into the application?
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Because they are a particularly vulnerable population and one that suffers stigmatization.
 
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LizzyM said:
Because they are a particularly vulnerable population and one that suffers stigmatization.
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I guess as long as OP is applying to liberal schools with all liberal interviewers it's good to mention immigration status of the patients.
 
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LizzyM said:
Because they are a particularly vulnerable population and one that suffers stigmatization.
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Language/cultural barrier is relatively easy problem. When you are undocumented its a whole different problem set you are dealing with: paying a doctor by cash because you have no credit card or insurance (not a lot of places take cash). One guy I helped had to pay cash for his sinus surgery in hundred dollar bills, and the clinic struggled to find change for him. He had to go across the street to get smaller bills, and received judgmental stares from other patients in the waiting room.
 
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EdgeTrimmer said:
I guess as long as OP is applying to liberal schools with all liberal interviewers it's good to mention immigration status of the patients.
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I have worked with quite conservative attendings on my rotations and have yet to work with one who would deny care to an undocumented immigrant or who would look down on someone providing care to them. I think you’re underestimating how much the profession of medicine cares about vulnerable populations regardless of personal political affiliation. It’s also telling that you continue to paint all conservative physicians and adcoms as people who would shun a vulnerable population.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I have worked with quite conservative attendings on my rotations and have yet to work with one who would deny care to an undocumented immigrant or who would look down on someone providing care to them. I think you’re underestimating how much the profession of medicine cares about vulnerable populations regardless of personal political affiliation. It’s also telling that you continue to paint all conservative physicians and adcoms as people who would shun a vulnerable population.
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The question here is OP wants to write that they helped illegal immigrant patients avoid filling certain info on the forms and I am merely stating them it it may be risky to mention that. As per care, I have no doubt most physicians will treat every patient that comes to their hospital/clinic regardless of their political and religious beliefs.
 
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I don't particularly see the controversy here. As a young adult you worked with a vulnerable population that for the reasons you outlined above struggled to receive medical care. Your helped them navigate systems and forms to do so. Patients have the choice to include / not include information of forms (and do so all the time). Lets not forget that the patients you are working with have agency. Patients can pick and choose providers based off of what information they request. Providers can recognize if all information is not included when asked and follow up if they feel it is necessary. Personally im not sure why someones immigration status would be relevant but that's an issue for another day. It would be highly problematic if you coached an individual to deliberately provide false information on a legal document - it doesn't sound like that is what you did here.

I will say, use care when describing working with vulnerable populations. I highly recommend not using the term illegal or phrases such as "these people." Some folks may interpret that as a sign of bias and when there are so many qualified applicants, you don't want to risk it. Person first language is huge and something that my program looks for. When I was an application screener this was something we were explicitly told to look out for.

Best of luck to you.
 
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If you think fully documented american citizens fill out every medical form correctly every time without looking for shortcuts then boy do I have news for you

My perspective may be skewed because I attend medical school in an area with many, many undocumented patients but I think this kind of work would be a big bonus at my school. I think others have given you plenty of great ways to phrase it that shouldn't be particularly controversial - helping someone navigate a system and all of its challenges is an admirable thing to do.
 
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I have worked with a lot of conservative doctors and not one of them ever said anything rude about or heisted in treating undocumented/illegal immigrants. I am sure we could find doctors out there that are jerks about it, but like @Matthew9Thirtyfive, conservative physician does not equal evil monster who refuses to treat certain patients.
 
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kartveli said:
I was debating whether to even include the fact that these people I helped were illegal as I wouldn’t want to bring a controversial topic to a more conservative board, however I wanted to include the fact they were undocumented as it played into their fear of seeking medical help in the first place
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Nothing about giving healthcare to people who do not have access to it is controversial. You can include that they are undocumented.
 
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