Hemepath fellow cannot find a job.

[turtle1966]

Has a single person on this board left pathology because of all the trouble they are having? One person? Has a single person left the specialty? Have you? Will you? You can go to work every day thinking the world sucks and is already over if you like; I have a good job and enjoy my work. I could join the coalition of the whining on here if I wanted. I could turn my everyday worklife into a miserable paranoid experience where every piece of news makes me more sure that I made a terrible decision in college to choose medicine in general and pathology specifically.

If everything is THAT bad then leave... rid the rest of us of your resentment and bitterness. Post from outside pathology about why you left and why they shouldn't come into the specialty. Or just keep being one of the poster's with a hole in your back for Thrombus' arm to fit, looking like a fat kid eating pie while screaming to everyone around him how awful it tastes and how they should forever avoid this pie. I don't trust that... no one else should either. If things suck so much, go away.

The job market like everything else in life isn't perfect, good (I assume) candidates like Tiki DO have a hard time sometimes. I've never disputed that getting a job can be hard and stressful. I've also never disputed that things could be better. If you want to take that reality and twist it into fatalist whining and sandwitch board phrases about the end being nigh great. In the end I have a feeling all you'll do is convince gullible idiots not to go into pathology, and really maybe that's a good thing.

FYI, (1) yes, I have met many many pathologists who moved on to dermatology, hematology and internal medicine, etc.. Simply, they are not talking about it. (2), yes, I have met quite a few pathologists working as general practitioners. One was even a Mayo Clinic trainee. (3) about 25 years ago, in L.A. Yellow Pages, there used to be pages of M.D.s listed as, I think, "general practice, board certified in pathology". What do you think that meant?

One of the problems with our field is that we are dependent in other institutions and specialties.

We have lack of jobs for those searching and job insecurity for those working; the latter is seldom talked about in this Forum, but it is a real issue.

Our leaders have been preaching an impending shortage of pathologists due to aging and retirement of our older colleagues, for over two decades at least.

On the other hand, the productivity of the field has been increasing. Many have shortened or automated their reports. PAs have taken over many of our chores. Many colleagues are forced to work longer hours.

Meanwhile, the "ownership" structure of practices has gradually been polarizing, that is, there is a "land grab" for hospital contracts and independent labs by leading pathologists. We all have heard of certain pathologists with exclusive contracts hiring subordinates in a "revolving door" fashion.

When private ventures were buying labs and practices, those who could were lining up to sell their practices for any price they could; with it, the future of junior members of the practice.

I hardly can imagine those with exclusive contracts retiring, if they could help it. Rather they would "run" the business of the practice and let the juniors practice "pathology". Or, sell their practice at whatever price they could get.

Reagan said "trust but verify"; likewise, I would cut residency slots now, let the oversupply dwindle and then should there be an actual shortage, increase slots. Yes, during the transition, there may an "imagined" shortage, which would be most welcome by many of our colleagues in less than desired jobs at moment.

I still would call our academic leaders "blind dogs".

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Entgegen]

LOL status= pre health

Eh, pathstudent is actually an attending currently out in practice (we've been led to believe as such, anyway). His status has always read "pre-health" for some reason...

 

[veo1]

Thanks!
It's very stressful. Thankfully I don't have any kids to worry about, and I suppose I could defer my loans. I don't have a backup at this point but I have gotten a few interviews in the last few weeks, so hopefully this will work out. If not, il will have to see if I can scramble into a fellowship, but there doesn't seem to be too many available either.

Thank you for your honesty Tiki in what is obviously a difficult time for you. I was there last year and only received an offer in early March. I wasn't geographically restricted, did well in residency at what would be considered a top 10-15 institution, passed AP/CP, did a good fellowship, got along well with others and struggled to find employment. I lucked into a job that I am really happy with at the moment with a group that I trust and who have ensured my employment for the long term.

The doubters on this board will blow off your situation and assume that you're a horrible resident that can't communicate or that you are limiting yourself to a particular region. Fact of the matter is it shouldn't be this hard. I didn't have access to the "dark report' mentioned here a few days ago but confirmed through a colleague that it did indeed paint a gloomy picture for our profession. Of course it gets drowned out and the CAP propaganda campaign continues. Good luck Tiki. I honestly think you will find something.

 

[yaah]

I don't know why so many posts on this forum are so negative and stereotypical.

You can have the belief that many people having trouble with the job market have trouble because of flaws or problems in their application, and yet fully understand that some who do have trouble do not have these same flaws and may also have trouble. Personally, I did not meet any other resident/fellow during training that had significant trouble with the market who did not have serious flaws as a candidate, but this was several years ago now and it is no longer true.

If this forum can do anything it should help to offer a form of support to anyone who does have trouble with the job market - that things are probably not as bleak as they seem. Understand that most quality groups out there do want to hire quality individuals, and not the one they can lowball the most.

It is a complicated field, and one that really does NOT lend itself to simple generalizations like "JOB MARKET SUCKS" or "JOB MARKET JUST FINE." Anyone who insists on these simplistic responses isn't really worth listening to.

What I do not appreciate at all is the suggestion that pathology would be served best by having the best and brightest "do something else." This is a terrible strategy which necessarily weakens everyone else in the field. The truth is that true unemployment as a pathologist is quite low, significantly lower than almost any profession in the world. There are many many different employment options for pathologists and unfortunately some of the are exploitative. This is the nature of business in a capitalist society. Unfortunately those who bemoan this tend to be the ones most resistant to true change that would improve the situation.

The truth is we need more posters like Tiki who are honest and open about their own situation.

 

[jp123ok]

FYI, (1) yes, I have met many many pathologists who moved on to dermatology, hematology and internal medicine, etc.. Simply, they are not talking about it. (2), yes, I have met quite a few pathologists working as general practitioners. One was even a Mayo Clinic trainee. (3) about 25 years ago, in L.A. Yellow Pages, there used to be pages of M.D.s listed as, I think, "general practice, board certified in pathology". What do you think that meant?

I've met pediatricians and family practice doctors who have switched to pathology, so what does that prove? Unless someone has figures showing a mass migration of pathologists to other disciplines, I would suggest that it only proves that people sometimes change their minds after completing residency.

I agree with Yaah. This board is full of pessimists.

 

[yaah]

I agree with Yaah. This board is full of pessimists.

Well, pessimists rule the internet for the most part except for the parts involving pictures of cats. My problem is that this forum is too full of cherry pickers. An anecdote becomes a trend except when it's an outlier. And anecdotes, which are not biased at all, trump data because data are biased. Unless of course the data support your point, in which case the data prove ironclad facts which cannot be argued, and the anecdote is irrelevant and misleading.

And pathologists are supposed to be scientists.

Anecdotes inform and can provide help in certain situations but they should not drive significant decisions.

 

[path24]

I would be curious to know if the "there is going to be shortage" or "the go into path" crowds are assisting these individuals in finding work. Or do those claims get made and then they jump ship on these individuals they encouraged to pursue this field. Do they not feel a need or obligated to help? Is it the argument they must have something wrong with them/bad pathologist/bad personality?

I would not recommend a field where quality candidates struggle to find work, ending training with no job, and have to worry about paying rent, student loans....etc. I am not going to encourage people to put themselves or their families at a risk that is much higher in pathology than other specialities.

 

[gbwillner]

I would be curious to know if the "there is going to be shortage" or "the go into path" crowds are assisting these individuals in finding work. Or do those claims get made and then they jump ship on these individuals they encouraged to pursue this field. Do they not feel a need or obligated to help? Is it the argument they must have something wrong with them/bad pathologist/bad personality?

I would not recommend a field where quality candidates struggle to find work, ending training with no job, and have to worry about paying rent, student loans....etc. I am not going to encourage people to put themselves or their families at a risk that is much higher in pathology than other specialities.

Well, for all the bitching I hear on this board, I have been made aware of 2 posters (the heme fellow and Tiki), who have not been able to secure employment (yet- the year is not yet over). Maybe there are thousands of others lurking in the shadows- I don't know. Everyone I know has gotten a job (or subsequent fellowship)- some with 3+ offers. So how exactly do you gauge the standing of this field? Is one or two "quality" candidates not finding a job sufficient to dismiss the entire field?

 

[pathresident2]

If you think getting a subsequent fellowship for a current fellow of or not of his/her choice is employment, then you should not come here. Job marker is just wonderful, there are lots of opportunities where you will just be a permanent senior resident.

Well, for all the bitching I hear on this board, I have been made aware of 2 posters (the heme fellow and Tiki), who have not been able to secure employment (yet- the year is not yet over). Maybe there are thousands of others lurking in the shadows- I don't know. Everyone I know has gotten a job (or subsequent fellowship)- some with 3+ offers. So how exactly do you gauge the standing of this field? Is one or two "quality" candidates not finding a job sufficient to dismiss the entire field?

 

[path24]

Well, for all the bitching I hear on this board, I have been made aware of 2 posters (the heme fellow and Tiki), who have not been able to secure employment (yet- the year is not yet over). Maybe there are thousands of others lurking in the shadows- I don't know. Everyone I know has gotten a job (or subsequent fellowship)- some with 3+ offers. So how exactly do you gauge the standing of this field? Is one or two "quality" candidates not finding a job sufficient to dismiss the entire field?

No need to list all the issues, but struggle to find work, fellowship hoping, ending training unemployed, paying student loans/rent/food, no/little job security, constantly moving family, fighting for specimens, underemployement, can't negotiate salary/benefits, no partnership....etc. Issues that can follow your ENTIRE career. OR go into another field of medicine where these issues are SIGNIFICANTLY more minimal and won't necessarily last 30 years.

But there is a great intern job on the CAP Pathologist job search list...

 

[Thrombus]

No need to list all the issues, but struggle to find work, fellowship hoping, ending training unemployed, paying student loans/rent/food, no/little job security, constantly moving family, fighting for specimens, underemployement, can't negotiate salary/benefits, no partnership....etc. Issues that can follow your ENTIRE career. OR go into another field of medicine where these issues are SIGNIFICANTLY more minimal and won't necessarily last 30 years.

But there is a great intern job on the CAP Pathologist job search list...

Path 24 I just checked that out and you are behind the times.

There is a 30 man GI group looking to hire their own pathologist above that. I have yet to find a pathology group that is looking to hire their own Gastroenterologist.

That says it all. thumbdownmad:

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I noticed a job posting for techs at a brand NEW in-office lab a little south of me. Gee, I thought the 88305 cut was suppose to kill these places off..........Those of you that celebrated the cut were wrong it looks like.



Great opportunity for Histotechnician's in Crestview Hills, KY ! Tri-State Gastroenterology Associates is a multi-physician practice located in Northern Kentucky. Its mission is "To provide compassionate, high quality, cost-effective care to patients' with gastrointestinal problems" Looking for 2 Full Time HT/HTL's ( 32 hours a week is full time employment at this practice )

* Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens

* Supervisor experience preferred

* HT/HTL ASCP Certified

* Experience with CLIA and CAP

* Experience writing and maintaining policies and procedures

* Prior laboratory start up experience is preferred

* Ability to work independently
Duties include:

* Grossing

* Embedding

* Microtomy

* Staining; routine and special stains only

* Maintain supply orders and laboratory budget

* Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed

* Ability to work independently

* Maintenance of laboratory for inspections

* Maintenance of quality records

 

[Thrombus]

I noticed a job posting for techs at a brand NEW in-office lab a little south of me. Gee, I thought the 88305 cut was suppose to kill these places off..........Those of you that celebrated the cut were wrong it looks like.



Great opportunity for Histotechnician's in Crestview Hills, KY ! Tri-State Gastroenterology Associates is a multi-physician practice located in Northern Kentucky. Its mission is "To provide compassionate, high quality, cost-effective care to patients' with gastrointestinal problems" Looking for 2 Full Time HT/HTL's ( 32 hours a week is full time employment at this practice )

* Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens

* Supervisor experience preferred

* HT/HTL ASCP Certified

* Experience with CLIA and CAP

* Experience writing and maintaining policies and procedures

* Prior laboratory start up experience is preferred

* Ability to work independently
Duties include:

* Grossing

* Embedding

* Microtomy

* Staining; routine and special stains only

* Maintain supply orders and laboratory budget

* Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed

* Ability to work independently

* Maintenance of laboratory for inspections

* Maintenance of quality records

Nope. They will just have their pathologist do twice the work at a fraction of the salary.

Anytime there is less revenue for pathology thumbdown, that means there is less demand for pathologists thumbdown.

Unfortunately, many posters on this board have little business training/sense. thumbdown

 

[Pathwrath]

I noticed a job posting for techs at a brand NEW in-office lab a little south of me. Gee, I thought the 88305 cut was suppose to kill these places off..........Those of you that celebrated the cut were wrong it looks like.



Great opportunity for Histotechnician's in Crestview Hills, KY ! Tri-State Gastroenterology Associates is a multi-physician practice located in Northern Kentucky. Its mission is "To provide compassionate, high quality, cost-effective care to patients' with gastrointestinal problems" Looking for 2 Full Time HT/HTL's ( 32 hours a week is full time employment at this practice )

* Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens

* Supervisor experience preferred

* HT/HTL ASCP Certified

* Experience with CLIA and CAP

* Experience writing and maintaining policies and procedures

* Prior laboratory start up experience is preferred

* Ability to work independently
Duties include:

* Grossing

* Embedding

* Microtomy

* Staining; routine and special stains only

* Maintain supply orders and laboratory budget

* Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed

* Ability to work independently

* Maintenance of laboratory for inspections

* Maintenance of quality records

The only way this works is if the pathologist is pulling less than 20 bucks a biopsy. I would guess closer to fifteen. End of the line.

 

[gbwillner]

If you think getting a subsequent fellowship for a current fellow of or not of his/her choice is employment, then you should not come here. Job marker is just wonderful, there are lots of opportunities where you will just be a permanent senior resident.

The people I know who did multiple fellowships CHOSE to do them. None did them because they were unable to find a "real" job (as far as I know). Why exactly "shouldn't come here?"

 

[cmz]

I did not do a surgical pathology fellowship (something that seems to be sought after at least locally), but I had completed a heme-path fellowship and was already signing out my own cases (flow, BMs, tissues, etc). Due to regional constraints, I was not having much luck finding work locally and had applied for a surgical pathology fellowship (and was offered the spot) for the next academic year. In the midst of applying/interviewing for the surg path fellowship, I already had a few interview offers for jobs elsewhere on the table. I don't remember how many CVs and cover letters I sent out, but it couldn't have been more than 20 or so.

In the end, I received two job offers; however, I was not about to jump at the first offer that came my way. I would have preferred to stay in academics, but I will say that the job market for heme is pretty weak at the moment. In the end, I finally decided on what looks like a very, very sweet job doing community pathology with a huge opportunity to siphon a large area network of heme cases. If the compensation, etc wasn't what I expected, I would have ended up doing the surgical pathology fellowship, which would have netted me a lot more experience and a ton of independent sign-out time.

Speaking from experience with firsthand knowledge of others who are also applying for work but have been unsuccessful... the reason for failure stems from: A) visa issues for one applicant who is actually a solid pathologist; B) one prideful applicant with an over-inflated sense of self-worth who demands a specialty-only job that isn't in the realm of academia (because, well, his CV is devoid of publications, etc and doesn't have the right attitude for such a job and blames Obama); C) another applicant who is not well-liked and overall thought to be incompetent by the people who matter and do the hiring (of course, they don't have the self-actualization to realize this and blame others for their failure).

Jobs are out there, you just need to know where to look. However, at the same time, people need to face the facts and understand what kind of specialty they signed up for (see person "B").

 

[path24]

Status of pathology: The Pathology professional society (CAP) is advertising for a professional Pathologist job that is employed by another doctor (GI docs). Pathologists....owned.

The pathology profession has no future, it is in a constant decline.

 

[KluverB]

Status of pathology: The Pathology professional society (CAP) is advertising for a professional Pathologist job that is employed by another doctor (GI docs). Pathologists....owned.

Yawn. So what? Lots of physician groups, clinics, and hospitals are owned by someone else. Some are even owned my non-MDs. Oh, the horror.

 

[KluverB]

...the reason for failure stems from: A) visa issues for one applicant who is actually a solid pathologist; B) one prideful applicant with an over-inflated sense of self-worth who demands a specialty-only job that isn't in the realm of academia (because, well, his CV is devoid of publications, etc and doesn't have the right attitude for such a job and blames Obama); C) another applicant who is not well-liked and overall thought to be incompetent by the people who matter and do the hiring (of course, they don't have the self-actualization to realize this and blame others for their failure)..

QFT.

Similar experience here...

I know of 2 grads who had trouble finding jobs, the rest of my colleagues (across multiple recent years and academic programs) are very-to-extremely happy where they are. I have only heard of one person complain about their job. They actually love their work, it's that they are in a J1-waiver situation and there were some bureaucratic issues that apparently were poorly handled by the employer and the gov. On the flip side, another J1-waiver colleague of mine, is in private practice and doing just fine.

Of the 2 people with problems, one came from a small program, and had some deficiencies and gaps in knowledge. Unfortunately, they were unable to convert their fellowship time into any sort of improvement in these gaps. This person had trouble finding a job. Not sure if they eventually settled for another fellowship. For all I know, they may well still be unemployed at this time (and maybe posting on here?).

The other person fell on the other end of the spectrum. They came from a "top" program and had all the knowledge in the world. They were constantly reading and publishing stupid throw-away studies, and on the whole, looked great on paper. Unfortunately, all that was overshadowed by their personality and no amount of effort to bring their attention to that was of any use. They simply could not see through their own douchebaggery. They did eventually find a position not long after finishing their 2nd fellowship.

 

[Substance]

Yawn. So what? Lots of physician groups, clinics, and hospitals are owned by someone else. Some are even owned my non-MDs. Oh, the horror.

The situation in pathology is kind of unique. I can't really think of any other field where physician colleagues are hired as employees and have a large percentage of their professional component trimmed for profit. Maybe its the ego in me, but I'd rather not work at all than work at a 15% rate for a colleague (or, gasp, former classmate).

 

[KluverB]

The situation in pathology is kind of unique. I can't really think of any other field where physician colleagues are hired as employees and have a large percentage of their professional component trimmed for profit. Maybe its the ego in me, but I'd rather not work at all than work at a 15% rate for a colleague (or, gasp, former classmate).

Yes, it's the ego in you. But seriously, yes, we as pathologists are a middleman removed from patients, and thus from procuring our own specimens, and so, we are necessarily a middleman removed from direct access to all those sweet God-given billables. Again, there are plenty of physicians that are employees and they just collect a measly salary. I'm sure they're working for well under what they could be billing, if they billed for every billable.

If you don't want to work for someone else, work for yourself. Yes, the barriers to market entry may be a bit steeper than that for a family doc, internist, or anyone else in primary care, but that's an apple to orange comparison (which doesn't keep others on here from constantly bringing it up). Quest started as someone's idea. So did OURLab. Genomic Health didn't just appear out of thin air. Etc. Etc.

So, you're either for Paul Ryan/Keynesian-style free market capitalism or for Obama/Erich Fromm-style feel-good socialism. Which one will your ego allow you to sleep better at night with? Or for something in between? In which case, what is it? And what are you doing about it?

 

[TMZ2007]

Paul Ryan/Keynesian-style free market capitalism

What what?

 

[Substance]

Yes, it's the ego in you. But seriously, yes, we as pathologists are a middleman removed from patients, and thus from procuring our own specimens, and so, we are necessarily a middleman removed from direct access to all those sweet God-given billables. Again, there are plenty of physicians that are employees and they just collect a measly salary. I'm sure they're working for well under what they could be billing, if they billed for every billable.

If you don't want to work for someone else, work for yourself. Yes, the barriers to market entry may be a bit steeper than that for a family doc, internist, or anyone else in primary care, but that's an apple to orange comparison (which doesn't keep others on here from constantly bringing it up). Quest started as someone's idea. So did OURLab. Genomic Health didn't just appear out of thin air. Etc. Etc.

So, you're either for Paul Ryan/Keynesian-style free market capitalism or for Obama/Erich Fromm-style feel-good socialism. Which one will your ego allow you to sleep better at night with? Or for something in between? In which case, what is it? And what are you doing about it?

Sure, I see what you're saying, but for a field to spread itself so thin that it becomes a commodity rather than a profession indicates a leadership that is either corrupt or overwhelmingly stupid.

If the tables were turned, pathologists would be hiring GI docs and urologists to procure specimens for them. If things were professional, pathologists would be on equal standing with those docs. As it stands, pathology is "the help". Given how important your job is, its certainly a failure of leadership to allow it to slip so far down the ladder.

I do agree with your general notion of doing something about the problem rather than griping about it on the internet. Yelling over and over that programs should be closed etc does nothing. If people don't want to start by running for big positions in CAP or whatever you guys have, start blackballing graduates of bad programs. Argue for de-certification for rogue pathologists that work at POD labs below professional rates. You could also start hiring people from good programs without fellowship training. You could start embracing technology. Your organization could fight for more path education in medical schools. You could push for a common PGY1 year to get clinical experience: as it stands, most of you probably haven't written a prescription, and that makes you lose credibility. You could learn how to do the scopes. Heck, you could start opening skin biopsy clinics since there's such a big shortage of dermatologists and that's easy enough for even medical students to do. Lots of opportunities, yet it seems no pathologists want to bite the bullet.

I found this CAP thing:

http://yourpathyourchoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/html/NewPaths01.html

and what concerns me the most about it is that the CEO for CAP is not even a physician. He's an MBA. And you wonder why your field is a commodity. Shameful.

 

[KluverB]

...and what concerns me the most about it is that the CEO for CAP is not even a physician. He's an MBA. And you wonder why your field is a commodity. Shameful.

If you're not in path, why are you so concerned about the field? Or the credentials of the CEO? Btw, the new CEO of the American Academy of Dermatology "is" a JD. So what? Should we expect the AAD to implode under the new leadership?

I don't see how doing a general PGY-1 year would change anything, or the ability to write prescriptions. As a matter of fact, I can still do the latter. Actually, I don't have to, I can just phone it in to the pharmacy (how is that for using technology ). I even have an active DEA number. But, more the point, why should I? I'm not seeing patients, and I'm certainly not treating them. So why would writing prescriptions give me any credibility?

Scratch that! Why would it give me any more credibility then I have now? I have my role in the care of patients. It does not involve admitting patients, or doing physical exams, or getting paged in the middle of the night because the LOL in NAD needs her bowels disimpacted, etc. My "clinical" colleagues look to me to tell them what they already don't know, i.e. the histologic diagnosis along with any relevant prognostic/predictive factors, outcomes data, etc. In fact, I get asked point blank, "What would you do?" more often than I care to.

So, again, thank you for your concern, but I'm doing what I love, for more money than most people will see in their lives. I suppose, if I were more of a go-getter, I'd be like Kevorkian, trailblazing, procuring "specimens", having others work for me, and not giving a damn about the Man....

 

[rollwithit]

If you're not in path, why are you so concerned about the field? Or the credentials of the CEO? Btw, the new CEO of the American Academy of Dermatology "is" a JD. So what? Should we expect the AAD to implode under the new leadership?

My guess is he/she is a radiologist with self-esteem issues and is picking on path to feel better about the issues in his/her own field.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I think he is canadian as well. Wait till you have a winter home in florida and have to deal with people from that country living around you. It sucks!

 

[Scania]

So, you're either for Paul Ryan/Keynesian-style free market capitalism or for Obama/Erich Fromm-style feel-good socialism.

Wait, "Paul Ryan/Keynesian-style free market capitalism"? How are Paul Ryan and JMKeynes comparable?

 

[KluverB]

Wait, "Paul Ryan/Keynesian-style free market capitalism"? How are Paul Ryan and JMKeynes comparable?

Yes yes!

That's what happens when I post s**t during work hours; I mangle my economic analogues...
Keynesian was originally attached to Obama, but I rewrote that sentence, since (tongue-in-cheek) he's more of a Fromm'er, and so you got the t*rd sandwitch you got.

Still, I may not have been far off.... http://video.msnbc.msn.com/up/48716561#48716561

 

[kaye98]

Hello,

I am a 4th year who starts a Pathology residency in about a month and half. Naturally after reading these posts I have begun to take a healthy regimen of Prozac and Xanax. I did have two questions regarding the job market though. The first relates to academics. When I was on the interview trail I asked a lot of people about the job market and the impression I got was that jobs in academia are readily available. I've even heard a few PD's/Chairman's say that they would do everything they could to hire graduates on if they had trouble finding employment. So is this what people mean when they talk about under-employment given the salary issue? I assume most people try for private practice jobs. An academic position with benefits and a smaller salary (for a Pathologist) at say $140K is obviously way better than a salary of zero, if that is your only option. However, if these positions are hard to come by as well it seems quite bleak.

Second, has anyone looked into other areas of employment outside of clinical medicine? Again I guess the issue is money, but is there anything one can do in residency to increase your chances? Government work (FDA, CDC), insurance, pharm, health policy, etc seems like viable options.

 

[MetroPath]

One question: What ever happened to the OP hemepath? How come ppl post and say they cant find a job and suddenly disappear while the thread grows to 5 pages?

 

[2121115]

Hello,

I am a 4th year who starts a Pathology residency in about a month and half. Naturally after reading these posts I have begun to take a healthy regimen of Prozac and Xanax. I did have two questions regarding the job market though. The first relates to academics. When I was on the interview trail I asked a lot of people about the job market and the impression I got was that jobs in academia are readily available. I've even heard a few PD's/Chairman's say that they would do everything they could to hire graduates on if they had trouble finding employment. So is this what people mean when they talk about under-employment given the salary issue? I assume most people try for private practice jobs. An academic position with benefits and a smaller salary (for a Pathologist) at say $140K is obviously way better than a salary of zero, if that is your only option. However, if these positions are hard to come by as well it seems quite bleak.

Second, has anyone looked into other areas of employment outside of clinical medicine? Again I guess the issue is money, but is there anything one can do in residency to increase your chances? Government work (FDA, CDC), insurance, pharm, health policy, etc seems like viable options.

Yes, academic jobs are a dime a dozen. There is no shortage of junior faculty positions that pay similar to a pharmacist or nurse practitioner and require long hours signing out a high volume of difficult cases, generating massive revenue for the department and leaving the liability with you. If this is your goal, you will have no trouble - the pathology world is your oyster. Just be sure to ask your department chair why the academic surgeons and radiologists get paid 80-90% of a private practice salary and academic pathologists get paid less than 50%.

 

[Path_to_Endo]

I am currently finishing my PGY-1 year. People at my program (North East, well-known) tend to go either private or academic, few have gone to work for govenment (were you thinking forensics?). Don't panic, the job situation is bad, but if you really love pathology and nothing else, it'll be worth it. Just make sure to network early, that seems to be a very important factor.

 

[KLPM]

I am a 4th year who starts a Pathology residency in about a month and half. Naturally after reading these posts I have begun to take a healthy regimen of Prozac and Xanax.

Is there such a thing?

 

[pathstudent]

One question: What ever happened to the OP hemepath? How come ppl post and say they cant find a job and suddenly disappear while the thread grows to 5 pages?

Academic jobs are not hard to come by. We had a few that were open for years (renal pathologist and pediatric pathologist went unfilled for years) and lots of people interviewed and they passed on it and took jobs elsewhere.

 

[DaSein77]

One question: What ever happened to the OP hemepath? How come ppl post and say they cant find a job and suddenly disappear while the thread grows to 5 pages?

Seriously, I've been wondering the same thing from page 3 onward.

 

[DIce3]

Raises hand. We had huge problems finding a halfway decent hemepath job.

 

[Artefact]

Just be sure to ask your department chair why the academic surgeons and radiologists get paid 80-90% of a private practice salary and academic pathologists get paid less than 50%.

Is there any data to back this up?

 

[Substance]

Academic jobs are not hard to come by. We had a few that were open for years (renal pathologist and pediatric pathologist went unfilled for years) and lots of people interviewed and they passed on it and took jobs elsewhere.

It's probably because your institutions compensation package wasn't attractive enough.

 

[2121115]

It's probably because your institutions compensation package wasn't attractive enough.

No kidding. That goes for nearly all academic jobs.

 

[Substance]

No kidding. That goes for nearly all academic jobs.

Then how do academic centers recruit people?

 

[Tissue issue]

Hello,

I am a 4th year who starts a Pathology residency in about a month and half. Naturally after reading these posts I have begun to take a healthy regimen of Prozac and Xanax. I did have two questions regarding the job market though. The first relates to academics. When I was on the interview trail I asked a lot of people about the job market and the impression I got was that jobs in academia are readily available. I've even heard a few PD's/Chairman's say that they would do everything they could to hire graduates on if they had trouble finding employment. So is this what people mean when they talk about under-employment given the salary issue? I assume most people try for private practice jobs. An academic position with benefits and a smaller salary (for a Pathologist) at say $140K is obviously way better than a salary of zero, if that is your only option. However, if these positions are hard to come by as well it seems quite bleak.

Second, has anyone looked into other areas of employment outside of clinical medicine? Again I guess the issue is money, but is there anything one can do in residency to increase your chances? Government work (FDA, CDC), insurance, pharm, health policy, etc seems like viable options.

As has been mentioned, it is important to understand the difference between a junior faculty position and an assistant professor position.

 

[KluverB]

As has been mentioned, it is important to understand the difference between a junior faculty position and an assistant professor position.

ie. about $50,000 - $90,000.

 

[pathstudent]

ie. about $50,000 - $90,000.

Agree with that. A friend worked as a junior faculty for two years and told me he made about 80k a year. He also told me he worked about 50 weeks a year those years because he was too scared to ask for time off and was put on the schedule every week. After that they made him asst. prof and his pay was bumped up to 135k.

But that is what you got to go through for the honor of being an academic pathologist. There is no greater honor.

 

[Substance]

But that is what you got to go through for the honor of being an academic pathologist. There is no greater honor.

Tongue-in-cheek?

 

[LGIC]

Hello,

I am a 4th year who starts a Pathology residency in about a month and half. Naturally after reading these posts I have begun to take a healthy regimen of Prozac and Xanax.

Ha! I'm with you. Although I'm partial to EtOH myself

 

[2121115]

Ha! I'm with you. Although I'm partial to EtOH myself

Rather than that, start planning for the anesthesiology match for next year. CP rotations will give you time to get your application together for the match.

 

[LGIC]

Rather than that, start planning for the anesthesiology match for next year. CP rotations will give you time to get your application together for the match.

You guys are close to convincing me. Take a less interesting field with worse hours because pathology is doomed. I'm considering it

 

[2121115]

You guys are close to convincing me. Take a less interesting field with worse hours because pathology is doomed. I'm considering it

Worse hours? LOL. Not even close.

 

[veo1]

As has been mentioned, it is important to understand the difference between a junior faculty position and an assistant professor position.

Very true. These so-called 'clinical instructorships' are indentured servitude. Departments prey on trainees who either can't find a job or need to stay local for a variety of reasons (family, house, etc.). I wasn't geographically restricted but it took me a long time to find a job. Once my department knew this, they really put the pressure on and stressed the fact that only a few of these 'instructorships' were available and that they were interviewing all kinds of candidates for them. The only thing junior about it is the pay as you generally work full time for less than half of an ordinary salary (I was offered ~65-$70K). Luckily I held out and landed a decent job but I ran a lot closer to time than I would have liked. Its an insult quite honestly. As has been mentioned some nurses and most nurse practitioners are at this level or beyond. CRNAs will laugh at your salary.

 

[yaah]

Is there any data to back this up?

It's not true where I trained. I don't think it's true many places. Academic radiologists don't get paid very well either. There is sometimes confusion as to what truly constitutes "academic" and "private" though. But that is true for pathology also. Radiologists at true large academic med centers typically don't get paid that much more than pathologists. But hey, if someone says it on the internet that must mean it's true.