High COL areas with a non-wealthy spouse

[calivianya]

Hi guys! Figured the nontrad forum would be the best place for this conversation.

So, I'm wondering how you guys/gals with SOs/spouses plan to make medical school costs work. On one hand, if you get into a school in a low cost of living area, having a spouse that can work is a huge advantage. On the other, if your top choice is in a super high cost of living area and your spouse does not make excellent money, even a spouse that works full time may not be able to pay the bills alone.

It seems like in high cost of living areas, it's advantageous to be single - single people can take $600-$700 bucks a month to live in one bedroom in a four+ bedroom house/apartment with utilities included. A two bedroom apartment is going to cost us $1600+ near my top choice school.

So, my choices are chasing the dream and taking out full COA loans to supplement spousal income to go to my top choice school, or going somewhere that my spouse can pay living expenses independently and having both of us be vastly more dissatisfied. He also wants to live in the higher COL area, but is open to moving wherever I decide in the end.

It's a big price tag difference - likely $400k in loans for my top choice school, whereas if I take my least expensive acceptance, I'll only have to take out tuition and can likely get out under $180k.

What are your thoughts? How much, in dollars, is satisfaction with where you live worth?

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[SpoiledMilk]

Medschool will be as mentally, as emotionally, and as physically draining on you as well as your H. Can you imagine coming home exhausted and looking forward to enjoying couples time to find your H is grouchy because he is dissatisfied with work/living in an area he dislikes? Imagine doing that for at least 4 years.

Therefore, if it is manageable, the $220k difference in the long run is far outweighed by having a happy spouse who will be there for support during the times when you will question why you decided to delve into medicine...

 

[popopopop]

Not married, but in LTR. I would get my spouse to realize medschool is only temporary and a $200k headstart (excluding compounding interests!) will set you up for more financial freedom down the line. You're going to be making sacrifices during school anyways and most likely be in front of a computer the majority of the day. Don't think you can go out and explore the city every day (well, some might). I would take that saving and spend it on weekend trips if you really want to get away from the undesirable area.

 

[siliso]

220k is a large amount to pay for potential QOL. I don’t know if it’s worth it for your family. Take into account that scraping by in a high COL area is also stressful and that money problems can be a major strain on relationships. Also take into account the value of your social and family connections whether they exist in dream location or the other one. Idk if we’re talking about sunny San Diego vs Actual Hell or what.

 

[drdpmn]

It seems like in high cost of living areas, it's advantageous to be single - single people can take $600-$700 bucks a month to live in one bedroom in a four+ bedroom house/apartment with utilities included. A two bedroom apartment is going to cost us $1600+ near my top choice school.

Why not get a one bedroom apartment instead? Just for some perspective, I'll be approaching 30 when I matriculate. I am single but have absolutely no desire to room with three 22 year olds. I will be getting a one bedroom apartment on my own. If your spouse is working, sharing the cost of rent of a one bedroom apartment is a lot more reasonable financially than what I'll be doing. If you decide you'll be happier at the school with a higher COA, then cut corners where you can.

 

[NITRAS]

If you had a half million sitting in the bank, you could choose either one, and I wouldn't argue with you. You might still choose the cheaper school, because spending an extra $200k+ with no real return on investment is usually considered stupid.

Now lets go to reality where you don't have much money, and you are gong to borrow a couple extra hundred thousand dollars, to live in a nicer place. How does that sound? Don't let your dream become a nightmare. People always make assumptions that things are going to turn out OK.

You add half a million in debt to your life, and you limit yourself to high paying careers. But what if you don't want to do that? what if you can't work full time? What if you have a baby that has special needs and you need to take care of it full time? What if you don't graduate medcal school or pass your STEPs?

I can guarantee life will be different than you expect.

 

[catlady87]

Are you sure you can't bring the costs of the two options closer together. I'm surprised that the higher COL area would be a full 50,000 dollars per year more expensive. Even if you took out loans to pay full rent, that would only be about $ 20,000 per year (not negligible, but less than half of what you mention above), and then would your husband's job not give you enough income to pay food/utilities/transportation? Or is the tuition at the preferred school also higher?

My husband and I are also trying to get by on his income as far as cost of living, and it's going to be tight for sure. He plans to work two jobs to be somewhere around 50-60 hours per week rather than 40 hours a week to help make ends meet, and we also have some savings we'll likely use the first year or two to bridge the gap. I am also considering working a few hours a week (maybe 5, certainly less than 10) tutoring MCAT or something like that to make a bit of extra money, perhaps airbnb if our lease allows (TBD). We're hoping once he finds his footing in the new area and after a couple of years he'll be able to make a bit more money.

 

[calivianya]

220k is a large amount to pay for potential QOL. I don’t know if it’s worth it for your family. Take into account that scraping by in a high COL area is also stressful and that money problems can be a major strain on relationships. Also take into account the value of your social and family connections whether they exist in dream location or the other one. Idk if we’re talking about sunny San Diego vs Actual Hell or what.

We're talking about sunny south Florida vs. somewhere relatively in the middle of nowhere, between my favorite school and the cheapest school. There is a middle option, but it would be the furthest out and he wouldn't be able to continue working for the same company (he would for the other two). No family connections anywhere I've been accepted, so at least that's one less factor to worry about.

Why not get a one bedroom apartment instead? Just for some perspective, I'll be approaching 30 when I matriculate. I am single but have absolutely no desire to room with three 22 year olds. I will be getting a one bedroom apartment on my own. If your spouse is working, sharing the cost of rent of a one bedroom apartment is a lot more reasonable financially than what I'll be doing. If you decide you'll be happier at the school with a higher COA, then cut corners where you can.

I never wanted to room with other people when I was single either. My husband is the first person I've ever lived with that I could stand. I honestly don't think we could fit our stuff in a one bedroom, even after getting rid of lots of things already. He has a large collection that pretty much needs a room of its own, and it's definitely off limits to even suggest selling it or storing it. A two bedroom is going to be a significant downgrade compared to where we're living now anyway, so I think that's probably the smallest thing I can convince him to live in.

Are you sure you can't bring the costs of the two options closer together. I'm surprised that the higher COL area would be a full 50,000 dollars per year more expensive. Even if you took out loans to pay full rent, that would only be about $ 20,000 per year (not negligible, but less than half of what you mention above), and then would your husband's job not give you enough income to pay food/utilities/transportation? Or is the tuition at the preferred school also higher?

My husband and I are also trying to get by on his income as far as cost of living, and it's going to be tight for sure. He plans to work two jobs to be somewhere around 50-60 hours per week rather than 40 hours a week to help make ends meet, and we also have some savings we'll likely use the first year or two to bridge the gap. I am also considering working a few hours a week (maybe 5, certainly less than 10) tutoring MCAT or something like that to make a bit of extra money, perhaps airbnb if our lease allows (TBD). We're hoping once he finds his footing in the new area and after a couple of years he'll be able to make a bit more money.

The preferred school is around $12k more per year than the least expensive school. Not super significant in the long run, but I'm also estimating that we'll need every dollar he makes and then some (he's going to have an hour+ commute and his car is older; I will be the farthest thing from shocked if we get hit with some significant repair bills), and then I'll need to have some money in the bank for residency interviews/audition rotations/etc. later, so I was planning on taking out the full COA just to be safe. I'm going to try to work some, too, if I can find somewhere to work with flexible enough hours. None of the places in my current field near my top choice would let me work little enough for my tastes, but I'm hoping I can find a staffing agency with more flexible rules.



Thanks guys; this is helpful.

 

[catlady87]

Do you have any savings you can use as a cushion?

If it were me, I'd start out taking fewer loans at the beginning (as little as you think necessary), then adjust as necessary. If you need extra money for 3rd and 4th year, better to borrow it then rather than have it accumulate interest (even if it doesn't capitalize) from the get go. This of course assumes you have some sort of emergency fund you can access just in case, so may not work.

Have you looked at applying for outside scholarships? Dartmouth has compiled a great list of available scholarships and you may be eligible for some.

 

[calivianya]

Do you have any savings you can use as a cushion?

If it were me, I'd start out taking fewer loans at the beginning (as little as you think necessary), then adjust as necessary. If you need extra money for 3rd and 4th year, better to borrow it then rather than have it accumulate interest (even if it doesn't capitalize) from the get go. This of course assumes you have some sort of emergency fund you can access just in case, so may not work.

Have you looked at applying for outside scholarships? Dartmouth has compiled a great list of available scholarships and you may be available for some.

I pretty much depleted my savings between getting my last bachelor's and this app cycle. I do have some money in a 401k, but I'd have to pay taxes on that if I took it out, plus the early withdrawal penalty, plus increasing my income to be taxed on for this year, so that's not a tremendously attractive option.

I've actually spent most of the day looking at outside scholarships. Every little bit helps - thanks for the tip with Dartmouth's site.

 

[catlady87]

Definitely not the 401k!

Back to the original question, only you can decide how much your happiness is "worth" and how much of a difference it will make to be at the top choice versus the other school. I completely agree it's important to take hubby's preferences into strong consideration, but keep in mind a couple extra hundred thousand dollars of debt could easily put serious strain on your relationship as well. 400k in debt is a serious burden that will balloon during residency. I guess my strategy, if I were in your shoes, would be to spend some time making a very detailed budget to see if you could shrink the debt gap between the two options. If you can't, well, personally I think 220k extra in debt isn't really justifiable, and I would probably try to focus on ways to make the cheaper option more palatable and try to tough it out. The kind of debt you're looking at with the expensive school may constrain you more in the future than a not-so-hot location for four years of med school.

 

[Kr#36]

For gods sake living in americas humid, sweaty basement is not worth an extra $220k plus interest. Reading your post at first I thought we were talking about Southern California or something, but actually choosing to pay that much to live in Florida is outrageous to even contemplate.

 

[calivianya]

For gods sake living in americas humid, sweaty basement is not worth an extra $220k plus interest. Reading your post at first I thought we were talking about Southern California or something, but actually choosing to pay that much to live in Florida is outrageous to even contemplate.

I just have to say I actually laughed out loud on this one. I personally love the area and can see spending the rest of my life down there... we plan to move there when I'm done with residency/fellowship regardless if we can't get down there now. To each his own.

For the record, it feels way more humid in southern Georgia in all those swamps... at least in south Florida there are beautiful ocean breezes. I had the misfortune of living in southern, middle of Georgia for a year at one point, and I'd call that one America's humid, sweaty armpit. Bonus points for the swamp stank permeating the air. Somehow, the area around the south Florida school doesn't stink even with the close proximity to the Everglades.

 

[Kr#36]

I just have to say I actually laughed out loud on this one. I personally love the area and can see spending the rest of my life down there... we plan to move there when I'm done with residency/fellowship regardless if we can't get down there now. To each his own.

For the record, it feels way more humid in southern Georgia in all those swamps... at least in south Florida there are beautiful ocean breezes. I had the misfortune of living in southern, middle of Georgia for a year at one point, and I'd call that one America's humid, sweaty armpit. Bonus points for the swamp stank permeating the air. Somehow, the area around the south Florida school doesn't stink even with the close proximity to the Everglades.

I was mostly kidding but my point stands: I would think long and hard about going that much further into debt when you don’t have to.