HIPAA Violation

[mehc012]

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I suspect these were all the policies of your scribe company and/or hospital, not actual HIPAA violations. My med school stated multiple times that they have no problem with us looking up our own medical records, so long as we can already access the EMR through our position (so someone who works in the gift shop, without access to medical records, would be in violation of this term if they looked up their own medical record). We were not, however, allowed to look up the records of our minor (or adult) children.

I suspect none of these would be an issue unless someone actually saw something that they weren't supposed to (a family member looking over your shoulder), and they audited the files and saw you were in the chart even though you didn't scribe for said person.

They may well be...however, I have since gone through and found the materials, in print, and they specifically list these as HIPAA violations.

Edit: A quick Googling turns up many, many discussions where staff have been presented with one version or the other (it is HIPAA vs it is not, but it's against policy) such as
http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/hipaa-compliance-access-practice-staff-medical-records
etc. Looks like it's just all a stew of people making their own conclusions from the actual rules and then confidently asserting that theirs is right. It's probably all a wash...not HIPAA's primary intent, and thus not likely to ever be hammered out in court, so no concrete answer available.

 

[richierich22]

I feel like I should not even go through with this medical school stuff considering how iffy the turnout is! Seems like I'm going to work my butt off for four years for a gamble.

 

[DermViser]

The AMCAS does not ask for every job but when I applied for a job with the federal gov't a million years ago the application said, "Describe your current or most recent job in Block A and work backwards, describing each job you held during the past 10 years.... include VOLUNTEER WORK (non-paid work)-- if the work (or part of the work) is like the job you are applying for...."

It also required my signature on the statement, "I certify that to the best of my knowledge and belief, all of my statements are true, correct, complete, and made in good faith."

The form the school is asking you to complete for a background check may be similar.

The federal govt. is a whole different story. Of course they want to know every job experience you've had.

 

[DermViser]

I feel like I should not even go through with this medical school stuff considering how iffy the turnout is! Seems like I'm going to work my butt off for four years for a gamble.

You're making this way too hard. You have no criminal record at this point or any actions against you. You also have no gaps bc of the job. STOP.

 

[mehc012]

I feel like I should not even go through with this medical school stuff considering how iffy the turnout is! Seems like I'm going to work my butt off for four years for a gamble.

You have not been convicted of a HIPAA violation, and the odds of that coming up at this point are minimal.
You were fired for a violation of workplace policy. That is only on record at your previous place of employment. Look up the policies of your area and see whether "why was employee X fired" is a question people are even legally allowed to ask them. If they can't tell specifics, and you don't, leave it behind you. If they can, and you are specifically asked about all prior employment, just list it with the others. If you are then asked for a 'why did you leave' for every job ever, state that you were asked to leave due to some workplace policy violations. If they ask further, explain what you did without ever using the word HIPAA.

The chances of someone digging in deeply enough to go through ALL of the above steps is also...miniscule.
Stop digging holes for yourself to trip and fall into. Stop contacting this hospital, don't work there again, and either leave it off your CV or keep it on but don't mention that you were fired.

 

[NYCNative]

You have not been convicted of a HIPAA violation, and the odds of that coming up at this point are minimal.
You were fired for a violation of workplace policy. That is only on record at your previous place of employment. Look up the policies of your area and see whether "why was employee X fired" is a question people are even legally allowed to ask them. If they can't tell specifics, and you don't, leave it behind you. If they can, and you are specifically asked about all prior employment, just list it with the others. If you are then asked for a 'why did you leave' for every job ever, state that you were asked to leave due to some workplace policy violations. If they ask further, explain what you did without ever using the word HIPAA.

The chances of someone digging in deeply enough to go through ALL of the above steps is also...miniscule.
Stop digging holes for yourself to trip and fall into. Stop contacting this hospital, don't work there again, and either leave it off your CV or keep it on but don't mention that you were fired.

Often times, if someone is fired, references or HR departments will strongly hint at the reason. Why would you lead adcoms to the body? OP, you don't seem to be approaching this from a "My religion precludes me from lying / misleading / I must shoot myself in the foot because it will assuage my conscience" standpoint. I'm starting to think that you are just really stupid. Whatever the case, at this point you're just willing cannon fodder for all the gunnerz up on these boardz....

 

[DermViser]

Often times, if someone is fired, references or HR departments will strongly hint at the reason. Why would you lead adcoms to the body? OP, you don't seem to be approaching this from a "My religion precludes me from lying / misleading / I must shoot myself in the foot because it will assuage my conscience" standpoint. I'm starting to think that you are just really stupid. Whatever the case, at this point you're just willing cannon fodder for all the gunnerz up on these boardz....

I'm amazed by @LizzyM's advice on this point as well. I thought she knows what the AMCAS application looks like and asks? Am I missing something here?

 

[Planes2Doc]

You have not been convicted of a HIPAA violation, and the odds of that coming up at this point are minimal.
You were fired for a violation of workplace policy. That is only on record at your previous place of employment. Look up the policies of your area and see whether "why was employee X fired" is a question people are even legally allowed to ask them. If they can't tell specifics, and you don't, leave it behind you. If they can, and you are specifically asked about all prior employment, just list it with the others. If you are then asked for a 'why did you leave' for every job ever, state that you were asked to leave due to some workplace policy violations. If they ask further, explain what you did without ever using the word HIPAA.

The chances of someone digging in deeply enough to go through ALL of the above steps is also...miniscule.
Stop digging holes for yourself to trip and fall into. Stop contacting this hospital, don't work there again, and either leave it off your CV or keep it on but don't mention that you were fired.

I agree with what you said and want to elaborate on the bolded part. I learned that it's illegal to ask if someone was fired, and for your former employer to disclose it. The way people get around it is by asking if the applicant is "eligible for rehire." If yes, they left under good terms. If not, then they were likely fired. Some people are given the option to resign instead of getting fired for this purpose.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm amazed by @LizzyM's advice on this point as well. I thought she knows what the AMCAS application looks like and asks? Am I missing something here?

Yes but the point is that this is someone who has been admitted and is now being asked for information that will be used for background check.

Do keep in mind that most medical schools are affiliated with VA hospitals and the feds do everything but a colonoscopy as a background check. Med schools want to know if someone is not going to get past the VA background check as an M3 and so they try to check into everything well in advance so that any problems can be smoothed out before it is time to go for clerkships.

 

[DermViser]

Yes but the point is that this is someone who has been admitted and is now being asked for information that will be used for background check.

Do keep in mind that most medical schools are affiliated with VA hospitals and the feds do everything but a colonoscopy as a background check. Med schools want to know if someone is not going to get past the VA background check as an M3 and so they try to check into everything well in advance so that any problems can be smoothed out before it is time to go for clerkships.

I guess then it depends on

1) What the form on the background check exactly asks.

2) Whether your school has rotations that you do at the VA (God help you).

That being said, you could also be involved in something AFTER matriculating but BEFORE starting MS-3, but maybe they do a background check again before starting clerkships?

 

[mehc012]

Yes but the point is that this is someone who has been admitted and is now being asked for information that will be used for background check.

Do keep in mind that most medical schools are affiliated with VA hospitals and the feds do everything but a colonoscopy as a background check. Med schools want to know if someone is not going to get past the VA background check as an M3 and so they try to check into everything well in advance so that any problems can be smoothed out before it is time to go for clerkships.

They were never officially found to have committed a HIPAA violation. As far as records go, they left one job, somewhere, a few years ago. That's all that would turn up, if that. There are no databases which even disclose that they were fired, never mind why.
If what @Planes2Doc said above is true (and this is not the first I'd heard that, nor does he tend to make facts up), the only ways that they could 'discover' the supposed HIPAA violation is
a) if OP tells them (which they can easily avoid without lying) or
b) if they audit the hospital access records for every medical job any applicant has ever held, and discover that OP accessed some unnecessary records 3+yrs ago (which would entail knowing the exact circumstances and job description at that time), and then decide that that alone constitutes a solid HIPAA violation.

I understand what you're saying, but in this situation they would have to actually perform that metaphorical colonoscopy to dig this up...and even if they did, there is no technical crime which was committed (no charges filed, no hospital sanctions, no clear-cut HIPAA violations), just a violation of workplace standards.

 

[LizzyM]

They were never officially found to have committed a HIPAA violation. As far as records go, they left one job, somewhere, a few years ago. That's all that would turn up, if that. There are no databases which even disclose that they were fired, never mind why.
If what @Planes2Doc said above is true (and this is not the first I'd heard that, nor does he tend to make facts up), the only ways that they could 'discover' the supposed HIPAA violation is
a) if OP tells them (which they can easily avoid without lying) or
b) if they audit the hospital access records for every medical job any applicant has ever held, and discover that OP accessed some unnecessary records 3+yrs ago (which would entail knowing the exact circumstances and job description at that time), and then decide that that alone constitutes a solid HIPAA violation.

I understand what you're saying, but in this situation they would have to actually perform that metaphorical colonoscopy to dig this up...and even if they did, there is no technical crime which was committed (no charges filed, no hospital sanctions, no clear-cut HIPAA violations), just a violation of workplace standards.

If the application, like the federal appie I completed, asks "reason for leaving", what does he say? What is true, complete and accurate? "discharged for violating hospital policy" seems to be the only honest answer.

I fear for the future of the profession when it appears that everyone seems to believe that dishonesty is the best policy.

 

[mehc012]

If the application, like the federal appie I completed, asks "reason for leaving", what does he say? What is true, complete and accurate? "discharged for violating hospital policy" seems to be the only honest answer.

I fear for the future of the profession when it appears that everyone seems to believe that dishonesty is the best policy.

Yup, if it specifically asks, "violating hospital policy" is honest and >>> than "potential HIPAA violation".
It is worse than not having anything, of course, but far, far better than throwing thoughts of HIPAA into their minds. That's a very knee-jerk-panic-inducing word for administrators.

I have not advocated dishonesty, and I find it a bit unnerving that not claiming to have committed a crime for which you were never even tried, never mind convicted, would be considered dishonesty. OP has a right not to go around yelling "hey guys, I violated HIPAA" because it has not even been demonstrated that they did, in fact, do so (and if some of the discussion in this thread is any indication, the subject is murkier than it seems on the surface).
OP absolutely should answer any questions with full honesty - but that doesn't mean they are obligated to volunteer information which is not asked for.
If asked 'list every job you have ever held', they should do that.
If asked 'reason for leaving every job you have ever held', they should do that as well.
If asked a followup question on that job specifically - 'what policy did you violate', they should answer that too...but not by saying 'HIPAA violation', because that is not why they were fired - they were not fired because the hospital found that they were tried or fined for a HIPAA violation. They were fired for violating hospital policy and for accessing records which were not immediately germane to their task. It may sound equivalent, and maybe the auditors will take it as such...but it is not exactly the same. Phrasing it that way is both more accurate and less damning...win/win.

If, after all of that, someone has concerns about HIPAA in the future (based on a nonconcrete issue several years ago), that is perfectly valid. But if OP jumps straight to yelling "HIPAA, I'm sorry!" that is inaccurate AND it dramatically increases the odds of screwing their career at the same time.

 

[LizzyM]

Yup, if it specifically asks, "violating hospital policy" is honest and >>> than "potential HIPAA violation".
It is worse than not having anything, of course, but far, far better than throwing thoughts of HIPAA into their minds. That's a very knee-jerk-panic-inducing word for administrators.

I have not advocated dishonesty, and I find it a bit unnerving that not claiming to have committed a crime for which you were never even tried, never mind convicted, would be considered dishonesty. OP has a right not to go around yelling "hey guys, I violated HIPAA" because it has not even been demonstrated that they did, in fact, do so (and if some of the discussion in this thread is any indication, the subject is murkier than it seems on the surface).
OP absolutely should answer any questions with full honesty - but that doesn't mean they are obligated to volunteer information which is not asked for.
If asked 'list every job you have ever held', they should do that.
If asked 'reason for leaving every job you have ever held', they should do that as well.
If asked a followup question on that job specifically - 'what policy did you violate', they should answer that too...but not by saying 'HIPAA violation', because that is not why they were fired - they were not fired because the hospital found that they were tried or fined for a HIPAA violation. They were fired for violating hospital policy and for accessing records which were not immediately germane to their task. It may sound equivalent, and maybe the auditors will take it as such...but it is not exactly the same. Phrasing it that way is both more accurate and less damning...win/win.

If, after all of that, someone has concerns about HIPAA in the future (based on a nonconcrete issue several years ago), that is perfectly valid. But if OP jumps straight to yelling "HIPAA, I'm sorry!" that is inaccurate AND it dramatically increases the odds of screwing their career at the same time.

I concur. He should report but there is no reason to drag HIPAA into it.