Ho vs. Jensen for oral boards

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seaofred

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I have both books but was wondering what the consensus is for the best course? Do they have the same formats?

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and passed thank god! and I didn't pick up a laryngoscope since finishing residency.
Ho and Jensen are quite different courses. Both are good, and I would recommend both to anyone. Here's what I think about them:
Ho offers more basic medical teaching in his course. He will go over a case in front of the entire group. He likes to hear himself talk sometimes and will go over very basic material(like pulse oximetry) and will spend alot of time on basic, basic stuff. You will cover approximately 1 test an hour. He does not give much feedback to the examinee in regards to their style.
Jensen's course is set up to cover as many exams as possible. He does not spend time going over the facts of the exam he gives to the examinee. He will spend 20 minutes or so on an exam and spend 15 minutes going over the answers to the questions he asked. He will tell you how to answer the questions. You obviously go over many more exams in this fashion. Jensen expects you to know Bid Red cold. I think that is why some people don't like his style. Jensens critiques the examinees style and tells them how to improve and what to watch out for.
Both examiners are aggressive examiners and you can take alot from each. I took jensen's in about march and Ho right before the exam. If I could do it again I would do it the other way around. I found myself days before the exam listening to basic stuff that I should have already known by this point in the game. I would have liked to just bang out as many exams as possible right before the exam if I could.
If I could chose one, I would chose Jensen. The Lubarsky book is a nice read as well. The whole test is about how you can answer a question. Not necessarilly what you know. My friend knew more than I did and failed because he was not ready for an aggressive examiner and did not practice enough oral exams. Don't go into it unprepared.
 
Kwijibo said:
and passed thank god! and I didn't pick up a laryngoscope since finishing residency.
Ho and Jensen are quite different courses. Both are good, and I would recommend both to anyone. Here's what I think about them:
Ho offers more basic medical teaching in his course. He will go over a case in front of the entire group. He likes to hear himself talk sometimes and will go over very basic material(like pulse oximetry) and will spend alot of time on basic, basic stuff. You will cover approximately 1 test an hour. He does not give much feedback to the examinee in regards to their style.
Jensen's course is set up to cover as many exams as possible. He does not spend time going over the facts of the exam he gives to the examinee. He will spend 20 minutes or so on an exam and spend 15 minutes going over the answers to the questions he asked. He will tell you how to answer the questions. You obviously go over many more exams in this fashion. Jensen expects you to know Bid Red cold. I think that is why some people don't like his style. Jensens critiques the examinees style and tells them how to improve and what to watch out for.
Both examiners are aggressive examiners and you can take alot from each. I took jensen's in about march and Ho right before the exam. If I could do it again I would do it the other way around. I found myself days before the exam listening to basic stuff that I should have already known by this point in the game. I would have liked to just bang out as many exams as possible right before the exam if I could.
If I could chose one, I would chose Jensen. The Lubarsky book is a nice read as well. The whole test is about how you can answer a question. Not necessarilly what you know. My friend knew more than I did and failed because he was not ready for an aggressive examiner and did not practice enough oral exams. Don't go into it unprepared.


What kind of study prepartion did you do (did you read both Big Red and Ho?) I am a little disappointed to spend another $600 on Big Red when it is fairly similar to Big Blue. When did you start studying. I seem to be in the same boat as you, as I havent done any anesthesia for a year.
 
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Ho all the way.. I didnt think he went over basic material and i spent the whole week before at his course.. IF he did. is because the questions they ask are so ******* i ng basic that people dont know how to answer them because they are looking for some meaning into it..

one of my questions on the oral board?

what does a cvp of 6 mean? My answer.. means the cvp is 6.. follow up question well what does a cvp of 10 mean? my answer.. means the cvp is ten. more importantly is the trend sir and not the actual number that i follow.. How does peep affect cvp? Peep will increase the cvp? is the wedge pressure higher than cvp and why? all the time? is there a time where it is lower? are you sure? are you sure? How does pulmonary hypertension affect the cvp? how about the wedge? would you put her to sleep if her pa pressures were 50/30? how about 40/20?
do you think her BNP is high? what is BNP? (beta natriuretic peptide) a hormone indicative of someone in chf..

The surgeon wants to proceed.. what do you tell him/ her? would you let him? He says its an emergency?

How do you get informed consent? what exactly do you tell the patients for a laparascopic cholecystectomy.


DO you get a chest xray after all central line placement? NO I do not. If there was no difficulty placing the line and a crna didnt do it. there is no clinical evidence for a pneumothorax or chylothorax then i usually forego the chest xray.. Well then why do the icu attendings get a chest film after every line placement.. My answer: I dont know.

would you extubate this patient? what is the differential for post op blindness... etcetera etcetera etcetera


see these are not hard questions.. they are basic. I mean some of them were hard.. but by enlarge they wanna know if you think clearly.. and i think Michael Ho demistifies the process.. I mean the exam was torture and i spent months and months studying non stop but go to the basics and know the basics cold..
 
stephend7799 said:
Ho all the way.. I didnt think he went over basic material and i spent the whole week before at his course.. IF he did. is because the questions they ask are so ******* i ng basic that people dont know how to answer them because they are looking for some meaning into it..

one of my questions on the oral board?

what does a cvp of 6 mean? My answer.. means the cvp is 6.. follow up question well what does a cvp of 10 mean? my answer.. means the cvp is ten. more importantly is the trend sir and not the actual number that i follow.. How does peep affect cvp? Peep will increase the cvp? is the wedge pressure higher than cvp and why? all the time? is there a time where it is lower? are you sure? are you sure? How does pulmonary hypertension affect the cvp? how about the wedge? would you put her to sleep if her pa pressures were 50/30? how about 40/20?
do you think her BNP is high? what is BNP? (beta natriuretic peptide) a hormone indicative of someone in chf..

The surgeon wants to proceed.. what do you tell him/ her? would you let him? He says its an emergency?

How do you get informed consent? what exactly do you tell the patients for a laparascopic cholecystectomy.


DO you get a chest xray after all central line placement? NO I do not. If there was no difficulty placing the line and a crna didnt do it. there is no clinical evidence for a pneumothorax or chylothorax then i usually forego the chest xray.. Well then why do the icu attendings get a chest film after every line placement.. My answer: I dont know.

would you extubate this patient? what is the differential for post op blindness... etcetera etcetera etcetera


see these are not hard questions.. they are basic. I mean some of them were hard.. but by enlarge they wanna know if you think clearly.. and i think Michael Ho demistifies the process.. I mean the exam was torture and i spent months and months studying non stop but go to the basics and know the basics cold..

uhhh...b stands for BRAIN....not Beta.....but I guess they let you pass despite your error.
 
militarymd said:
uhhh...b stands for BRAIN....not Beta.....but I guess they let you pass despite your error.

The orals are not hard....you can pass even when you're wrong and don't know what you're tallking about.....as long as you're not oriental and tow the line.
 
militarymd said:
uhhh...b stands for BRAIN....not Beta.....but I guess they let you pass despite your error.


yeah ok southern alabama boy.. read on...


Natriuretic peptide by Ray Sahelian, M.D.
Heart ventricles produce B-type natriuretic peptide (BNP or Beta natriuretic peptide) in response to increased mechanical load and wall stretch. B type natriuretic peptide is a hormone which protects the heart from adverse consequences of overload by increasing natriuresis and diuresis, relaxing vascular smooth muscle, inhibiting the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system, and by counteracting cardiac hypertrophy and fibrosis.

Heart tissue and BNP
B-type natriuretic peptide is synthesized by human cardiac myocytes as a prohormone (proBNP), which is cleaved to the 32-residue BNP and the 76-residue N-terminal fragment of proBNP. Both can be used as sensitive biomarkers of cardiac dysfunction and well-characterized commercial assays have recently become available. In acute coronary syndromes increased concentrations are strong predictors of recurring heart attack, heart failure, and death.
B-type natriuretic peptide and Congestive Heart Failure
B-type natriuretic peptide and N-terminal pro-BNP (NT-proBNP) levels can indicate a variety of heart problems, as well as general critical illness. B-type natriuretic peptide and NT-proBNP assays are useful for evaluating patients with acute dyspnea, as a low level of natriuretic peptide can help rule out congestive heart failure (CHF) and reduce reliance on echocardiography. Conversely, these assays can be particularly useful in recognizing CHF in a patient with acute dyspnea and a history of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. However, clinical judgment must always be part of the evaluation of B-type natriuretic peptide or NT-proBNP assay results.
 
I don't know. I read medical journals....like JAMA


I leave the likes of Inquirer for high school grads and other lay people.
 
I really like the sex boosters that Ray sells.....do you use his products...stephen?
 
the B in BNP is Beta... maybe brain.. but most people say beta.. even ray in his newsletter.. so enough with the sarcasm... just acknowledge that you dont know everything... sarcasm is not going to win you any points..
 
stephend7799 said:
the B in BNP is Beta... maybe brain.. but most people say beta.. even ray in his newsletter.. so enough with the sarcasm... just acknowledge that you dont know everything... sarcasm is not going to win you any points..

So you're saying Dr Ray, who sells Sex Boosters on the internet, is "most people" and that his terminology is what most medical folks use?

23892.gif
 
stephend7799 said:
the B in BNP is Beta... maybe brain.. but most people say beta.. even ray in his newsletter.. so enough with the sarcasm... just acknowledge that you dont know everything... sarcasm is not going to win you any points..

And you're right, I don't know everything....nobody does.
 
I always understood it to mean beta and not brain. I have seen brain used but mostly I see it refered to as BETA. But I don't know everything either, as I am sure that is obvious.
 
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Noyac said:
I always understood it to mean beta and not brain. I have seen brain used but mostly I see it refered to as BETA. But I don't know everything either, as I am sure that is obvious.

I've never heard it referred to as beta or read it as beta. But I'm just an intern. Maybe the terminology has changed recently.
 
stephend7799 said:
Natriuretic peptide by Ray Sahelian, M.D.

Dude, you did NOT just use Ray Sahelian as a reference did you?

Informative, yes. An authority, ummmm........
 
cloud9 said:
I've never heard it referred to as beta or read it as beta. But I'm just an intern. Maybe the terminology has changed recently.


I'm sorry, I must recant. I have heard of it as BRAIN. Its too early for me right now. But I can feel my head clearing up as the coffee hits.
 
ANP....BNP....


A is for atrial....the source of that peptide.

B is for brain....where it was first identified...

Common for people to think B is beta after A for alpha
 
militarymd said:
ANP....BNP....


A is for atrial....the source of that peptide.

B is for brain....where it was first identified...

Common for people to think B is beta after A for alpha


you are one stubborn dude... it must be tough living with you.. i feel bad for your wife
 
militarymd said:
ANP....BNP....


A is for atrial....the source of that peptide.

B is for brain....where it was first identified...

Common for people to think B is beta after A for alpha



I understood it to be first to be found in the brains of rats, thus the "brain" title.
 
stephend7799 said:
DO you get a chest xray after all central line placement? NO I do not. If there was no difficulty placing the line and a crna didnt do it. there is no clinical evidence for a pneumothorax or chylothorax then i usually forego the chest xray.. ..


Does this mean you never get or have gotten a pneumothorax?
 
stephend7799 said:
you are one stubborn dude... it must be tough living with you.. i feel bad for your wife

No ****, not only does she have to deal with his stubborness, but his extraordinarily small peepee as well.


And, I've heard both but more commonly Brain.

^^ and only stupid nurses hit pleurae and drop lungs. (thats sarcasm btw)

I always thought that a chest film after central line placement was just a "standard of care". This is assuming elective, non emergent, non OR placements. Never seen a crna or MD shoot a film in CVOR after floating a swan, but they get one shortly after going to unit. ED even shoots one before using one unless its a trauma of course.
 
rn29306 said:
Does this mean you never get or have gotten a pneumothorax?


no i dont srna.. go back to allnursing
 
stephend7799 said:
see these are not hard questions.. they are basic. I mean some of them were hard.. but by enlarge they wanna know if you think clearly.. and i think Michael Ho demistifies the process.. I mean the exam was torture and i spent months and months studying non stop but go to the basics and know the basics cold..


Sure, but first you go and re-attend elmentary grade English and study up on sentence formation and word choice....
 
I've always heard brain, though most just call it "BNP" without really caring what the B stands for. I can understand why some get it confused as there is also a C-type natriuretic peptide (note that's C and not gamma which would have made more sense if it truly were alpha and beta). It was also isolated from brain.

Sometimes going back to the primary literature can actually give you the answer. It was first identified in porcine brain. You can read for yourself what they called it. For what it's worth, the brain is actually an excellent place to look for expressed genes since roughly half the genome is expressed there.

Sudoh T, Kangawa K, Minamino N, Matsuo H. Nature. 1988 Mar 3;332(6159):78-81.

Abstract
Atrial natriuretic peptide (ANP), a hormone secreted from mammalian atria, regulates the homoeostatic balance of body fluid and blood pressure. ANP-like immunoreactivity is also present in the brain, suggesting that the peptide functions as a neuropeptide. We report here identification in porcine brain of a novel peptide of 26 amino-acid residues, eliciting a pharmacological spectrum very similar to that of ANP, such as natriuretic-diuretic, hypotensive and chick rectum relaxant activities. The complete amino-acid sequence determined for the peptide is remarkably similar to but definitely distinct from the known sequence of ANP, indicating that the genes for the two are distinct. Thus, we have designated the peptide 'brain natriuretic peptide' (BNP). The occurrence of BNP with ANP in mammalian brain suggests the possibility that the physiological functions so far thought to be mediated by ANP may be regulated through a dual mechanism involving both ANP and BNP.

Score another one for Mil.
 
rn29306 said:
Sure, but first you go and re-attend elmentary grade English and study up on sentence formation and word choice....


go back to all nursing
 
stephen said:
DO you get a chest xray after all central line placement? NO I do not. If there was no difficulty placing the line and a crna didnt do it. there is no clinical evidence for a pneumothorax or chylothorax then i usually forego the chest xray.. ..

rn29306 said:
Does this mean you never get or have gotten a pneumothorax?

As an intensivist, I don't order plain films to rule out pneumothorax.....However, it is very important to get films to determine line position.

If one is able to determine line position without a film, then it is probably OK to skip the film.

It is important to keep the tip of the line out of contractile objects (read...atrial/ventricle)...over time, the tip of the line can erode through contractile chambers...although with the newer, softer central lines, that fear is probably overestimated.

Also, you don't want the tip of the line directly against a large central vein as can happen with subclavian approaches.

But, if you have X-ray vision or if the Force is with you, then you CAN skip the film, because you already know where the line is positioned.
 
militarymd said:
The orals are not hard....you can pass even when you're wrong and don't know what you're tallking about.....as long as you're not oriental and tow the line.
Presently, if you dont know what you are talking about you WILL not pass i can assure you that... It is obvious thats how it was when you took it.. since you passed and you have no flippin idea about anything.. and your asian.. thats an anomaly huh
 
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