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Holding on to every acceptance

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by wiki23, Mar 12, 2007.

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  1. wiki23

    wiki23 Junior Member
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    I have a question...

    So I have a few acceptances at schools that I know I will not attend. However, after already investing a bunch of money into the school, I feel that I shouldn't withdraw my application until I have a financial aid package for the following reason:

    1) If the school offers me a good scholarship, I can use that as a barginning chip for other schools (i.e. X school gave me this much money, but I really want to attend your school. Can you match that scholarship?)

    I have no financial support from my parents and money is extremely tight, so I really want to keep my options open for financial reasons. I will definitely withdraw my application before May 15th, but I'm hoping I will get these financial aid offers before May 15th.

    Any thoughts?

    P.S. I am not trying to be EVIL by holding more than one acceptance.
     
  2. NervousNed

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    Im doing the exact same thing, its not evil, we at least deserve to see the money package, and once you see that though, we need to drop acceptances, but until then i dont see a problem with holding on to acceptances...
     

  3. If there are schools you're holding acceptances to that you wouldn't go to even if given a full ride, you should drop those now in my opinion. To be honest, I doubt how effective the bargaining chip strategy is. There are more qualified candidates than available positions. I'm not saying it never works, but I am saying that the bargaining chip theory isn't a strong enough reason to hold an acceptance at a school you would not attend under any circumstances... (I'm not saying that's your case, but if it is, I'd recommend you drop those and give others a shot).
     
  4. Critical Mass

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    Some schools can be bargained with easier than others. Were you taken early at a state school but have more desirable offers oos?

    OP, it's not evil. You earned the right to take your time.
     
  5. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    It's a fine thing to do (I think most multile-acceptance holders do the same business). Indeed, if there's a school you wouldn't attend even with a full-ride and large stipend, and it wouldn't be an effective bargaining chip, then drop it. Otherwise, it's not like you're doing anything against your fellow pre-meds as schools offer X number of acceptances and you withdrawing at this point won't make them give out more, and the waitlist won't move until after May 15 anyway...

    The only annoyance, of course, is filling out fin. aid information for multiple schools.
     
  6. xylem29

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    When do schools get back to you with fin aid info anyway?
     
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  7. Critical Mass

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    On bargaining and what not, does anybody know if EDP admits have ever successfully bargained since they can't hold more than one acceptance?
     
  8. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    Doubt it. What would you bargain with? A reapplication to other school next year? I think the "bargaining potential" strategy is already given a little more weight/trust than actually exists. An EDP candidate really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Jut one more of the many reasons not to do EDP!
     
  9. DoctorPLASTIC

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    Op dont listen to bitter applicants who havent received acceptances yet. I am holding 5+ acceptances (real number not given as I do not wish to be flamed) and will hold them until may 15 as even the school I am positive I wont attend, they will probably offer me some money and I am planning on using that as a bargaining chip at the schools that I would attend.
     
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  10. cleothecat

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    :D

    Ethics begins with consideration for your future colleagues.

    Unless you are a 4.0 GPA and 40+ MCAT and published, there is no real bargaining power for financial aid. There are thousands of
    qualified candidates as eager as you to attend the schools, and everyone knows it.

    Be considerate.
     
  11. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    Thoughts about how much money you're gonna get trumps compassion for your fellow applicants (and future colleagues) every time! I look forward to how you're going to approach patient care. :rolleyes:
     
  12. AtreyuRocks

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    i have 0 acceptances, but i dont think you are evil. you earned those acceptances, and that is what may 15 is for! but i DO agree that if a million dollars couldn't persuade you to go to a school, you might as well relinquish the acceptance to make the decision process easier on yourself (and to be nice to fellow applicants). congrats on the multiple acceptances!
     
  13. xylem29

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    Let me say that if you are holding onto 10 or more acceptances, you will likely become the candidate that school's do not want - they of course have no choice, but i'm just saying. my interviewer told me last year they discovered in may that one of their candidates held 14 acceptances (until may) and their opinion of the applicant dropped considerably, to the point where they sincerely hoped they didn't choose their school - all my interviewer said was, in the end, the candidate chose the school that was deserving of someone that self-centered.

    I agree that you guys earned the acceptances - you spent all that money on the process of applying and travelling to each school, and the financial aid bargaining thing is legit too. But I'm pretty sure that out of 10 or more schools, there should be a few that you would not even consider if you got a full-ride, and in all probability, these will also be schools that will have very little leverage even if you got a full-ride from them. Unless you get into all 10 top ten schools and thus have a hard time deciding, and which all have the same bargaining leverage as the others, drop a few dudes and dudettes!
     
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  14. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    :thumbdown:
    There's absolutely nothing ethically wrong with allowing financial aid decisions play a part in your decision process. I don't think some of these people understand just how much 200K in debt really is. Heck, even if a school throws you (what seems like) a bone of 5K per year to sweeten the deal, that's a car after 4 years. These are your acceptances. You've earned them. Are we suddenly also supposed to go to only one interview now to free up spots for less qualified applicants? That's just silly.

    As I've stated before. Most schools pre-decide on how many acceptances they will be giving out. A withdrawall now will not make them give out another acceptance or pull someone from a waitlist at this point. When you receive your financial aid decisions and scholarship season is over (end of April), indeed withdraw your acceptances in a timely manner, obviously by the May 15 deadline.

    Xylem, was that Dr. Dodson at WashU? That story was about an applicant who kept 14 acceptances AFTER May 15. Up to that deadline they're yours.
     
  15. Yehosh

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    I agree with Xylem's post. Although I doubt this whole bargning chip thing works, Keeping a few still makes sense. Keeping 5+ shows what kind of person you are.
     
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  16. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    5 at this point? What kind of person does it show you are? One who doesn't like to make decisions without knowing 100% of available data before making a decision which will cost more than most American's mortgages, and decide where you'll be living the next four years of your life? I'd love to see you complete that sentence.

    Get real kids. Some folks happen to be better at this medical school application thing than others. Deciding now with only a piece of the data (scholarship decisions) or before any second look weekends, is premature. Maybe if y'all had put more careful thought into your decisions (where, when to apply, MCAT, classes in undergrad, etc) you'd be juggling some acceptances too.

    My apologies for the curtness of this post, but I don't appreciate being called inconsiderate for taking time to get all the facts on a life-changing decision. People often tell me I'm a very considerate person, sometimes too considerate (I tend to be a bit of a "doormat" who has trouble saying no). I've already withdrawn 2 acceptances because I knew I wouldn't attend even with a full-ride and big stipend, nor would they be good bargaining tokens. But I can't say this enough times: Withdrawing now is not going to effect other applicants at all at this point.
     
  17. PeripateticMD

    PeripateticMD Peripatetic
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    LOVE this! I've been dropping all my applications like they're hot... your financial aid packages (unless from schools known for giving huge merit aid scholarships - which are given weeks after acceptance, and not usually with the package, unless others withdrew) will all look around the same.

    And the excuse "my parents aren't helping" - whose parents are? and are they looking to adopt?
     
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  18. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
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    Hold on to your acceptances until you get financial aid. That sounds totally sensible.

    But if you expect to play one school's financial aid offer against another's in hope of bumping it up, you might have unrealistic expectations. Go for it, but I'd predict the only result will probably be amusing the staff in financial aid.
     
  19. Yehosh

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    Even after the interviews, you've haven't managed to narrow things down to less then 5 schools? Are you really still debating between 6,7,8 schools?

    If you're still waiting to hear from other school's you've interviewed at, then my apologies, that is totally understanable. Many people are still holding onto offers and are waiting to hear from schools with non rolling admissions.

    But if you're just holding onto offers for the sake of having more options and can't narrow it down to 3-4 schools, then it just makes things more frustrating for other applicants on waiting lists. I had to go through that last year and trust me, it is very frustrating.

    and by the way, I do have offers, I'm not just some frustrated person currently on a waiting list
     
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  20. nacho libre

    nacho libre New Member
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    Ok, the transformation is complete. Can you please change your user name now.
     
  21. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    No I can't narrow it down yet. Most schools haven't even decided on scholarships yet. (WashU JUST assigned an essay due this Friday, UMich will decide March 30th, for example). I've come the the realization that I'd be perfectly happy at almost any of the schools (I'm a pretty flexible person), so the larger part is going to come down to scholarships and financial aid. I'm not going to withdraw an acceptance without the full picture. I'm more attracted to the lower-paying specialties, so every dollar of debt avoided is super important to me. Again, apparently I have to say this a third time Schools give out a pre-determined number of acceptances, and don't pull from the waitlist until after May 15. The entire application process is set up for students to hold acceptances until May 15 - scholarship decisions, financial aid decisions, and second look weekends haven't even ocurred yet. It's not going to effect anyone anyway.

    And nacho, sorry, but the truth has to be said sometimes. And apparently the truth hurts for some more than others.
     
  22. Yehosh

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    ok, cool. We're coming from different perspectives, so I guess I didn't consider all the scholarship stuff. Best of luck with all of that, hopefully you'll hear something positive that will make your decision much easier.
     
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  23. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    I think that this process can turn even a humble person into that arrogant doctor we all hate or fear becoming. More qualified? Less qualified? I've heard/read many admission director/adcom say that a less qualified applicant turned out to be the best in the class. I wouldn't get to impressed with yourself at this point. We all have many years to learn how to become a physician, and that includes a whole lot more than we could imagine that's past classroom learning. When you start that first day in medical school, realize that you are all on a level play field with all the other students. Your GPA, MCAT score, interviews, LORs, etc. will be worth nothing.
     
  24. Critical Mass

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    I thought that too until I started med school. I know many who are hardly borrowing if at all. Indeed there are plenty who have parents who bought them a home in the metro to live in during med school.

    You are over 60 times more likely to become a doctor if one of your parents is a doctor...

    OP, just make sure that you are clear on the renewability of any awarded financial aid.
     
  25. StritchMD2011

    StritchMD2011 Member
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    I've gotten a few nasty comments on my MDApps profile (which I deleted) for holding onto 4 acceptances, especially because I've commented that I'm mostly considering two of the schools. I could be swayed to any of the 4 though, depending on scholarships or a good financial aid package.

    I definitely agree that you've earned the right to wait to see what happens financially before withdrawing. If it's after May 15th and you're still holding multiple acceptances - that's another story...
     
  26. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    :sleep:
    I wasn't commenting on future success as a physician, but success in the application process in general (it's clear some are more successful than others). Almost all of us (myself, and yourself included Mr. Lifetime) lack the ability to make judgements on how "good" a physician will be in the future (I loved your comment about patient care).

    The reason why I'm speaking out on this issue (I'll deal with the flames if I have to) is because there seems to be a growing sentiment on SDN lately that if you have one or more acceptances to top tier schools apparently you:
    1) aren't allowed to mention it without being "arrogant"
    2) aren't allowed to ask about two possible choices without being "arrogant"
    3) most recently, aren't allowed to even hold onto one more until financial aid packages come out, and you've revisited the school on a second look weekend (or even heard from all of your schools - may I remind that Harvard, UPenn, and others haven't even rendered decisions yet?)

    But of course, on SDN, if you don't have an acceptance or interview yet, you're allowed to, without any worry of coming accross as arrogant (or just annoying):
    1) start dozens of threads moping about your state in the application process
    2) make judgments on successful applicants future success as physicians
    3) Come right and call people arrogant, selfish, assholes, etc.

    Or if you manage to have some acceptances to unranked schools:
    1) start threads devoted to celebrating your one acceptance
    2) start 5 vs. threads per day on the same unranked schools
    3) list multiple acceptances to said unranked schools in one's signature

    It's pretty ridiculous.
     
  27. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    Of course you've earned the right to hold onto them if you need to make an honest decision about which school to goto. But if you are holding acceptances to schools you have no intention of going to in the hopes of pitting one school against another, then that shows what type of person you are. One friend of mine is holding on to acceptances even though they are already committed to a particular school, and they have no defensible reason to do so.
     
  28. Critical Mass

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    An excellent future dermatologist!
     
  29. StritchMD2011

    StritchMD2011 Member
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    I agreed with your post up to the last set of points about people being accepted to multiple unranked schools. You're making it sound like people being excited about acceptances to schools which aren't "Top 20" is a joke because those schools don't quite match up with the caliber of yours.

    You're generally well-spoken and make valid and rational points - but jesus, you are so incredibly condescending in 95% of your posts that it makes your username seem rather ironic...
     
  30. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    Oh God, how boring! I want something more varied like Emergency Medicine. :D
     
  31. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    Not a joke at all. I'm not the one making these distinctions but its clear that others are. Just last week someone started a Harvard v. Hopkins thread (which is obviously pre-mature because Harvard hasn't decided yet) and got flamed. Yet that same week, there were almost 5 threads on Wayne State versus Michigan State CHM. I don't see why an applicant seeking helpful advice on any 2 schools is attacked but another isn't... it really ticks me off when people aren't allowed to voice their own opinions.
     
  32. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    Nobody is censoring anyone else. This, and many other threads, are an open debate.
     
  33. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    Aren't allowed to voice their opinions without fear of attack or retribution simply because their current situations are different than other's. And I'm so sorry if my desire to find valid people's concerns and questions no matter my own present situation speaks poorly of my bedside manner (or whatever else a fellow pre-med wants to judge about my future as a physician).
     
  34. Doctor~Detroit

    Doctor~Detroit this poll sux!!!
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    well, i have several acceptances, three at "top-20" schools, and i still think you come off sometimes as arrogant when you write stuff about how "the truth hurts" and disparage those with acceptances to "unranked" schools. it's a freakin' for-profit news magazine that gives us these rankings. nothing to get arrogant about.

    do i deserve a new category for feeling this?
     
  35. StritchMD2011

    StritchMD2011 Member
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    I'm sure some of it is just jealousy issues. I mean we'd all love to be in your situation, having lots of acceptances to top schools. I think people resent you not so much for having multiple acceptances, but the demeaning and condescending ways in which you tend to state your opinions. You may not mean to - but it generally makes you sound like you think you're superior to everyone here simply because of a great MCAT and GPA...
     
  36. JohnMadden

    JohnMadden Political Refugee
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    I think the most effective bargaining occurs when you have an acceptance at a highly ranked school. Your state school (excluding CA) or other lower ranked school may up the ante to try to get you to matriculate their school.

    That being said, the higher ranked school isn't going to care if you were accepted to your state school/lower ranked school. They won't even care if you got a full-scholarship with a stipend. They can easily find someone else who will matriculate and PAY to attend.
     
  37. Yehosh

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    you know as well as I do that Harvard hasn't sent out anything. So THATS why he got flamed.
     
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  38. soonerfan77

    soonerfan77 Rather be golfin'
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    Okay, I can understand the need to think things through in order to make the right decision for you. However, I believe that there may be a way to do what's right for you and still show compassion. Most of us without acceptances or on waitlists are looking for any sign of hope. So, could each of you with multiple acceptances simply list where you have been accepted? This would allow all of those waiting to estimate the possible waitlist movement which would occur before or after May 15. :cool:
     
  39. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    Now if anything were to be arrogant, I think people rattling off their acceptances in a thread would be horrible - that's what mdapplicants is for. My apologies for coming off as curt and acid-tongued, you're entitled to your opinions :D . Do I think I'm better than others or will make a better doctor because my application season turned out better than I expected? Goodness no. Do I think it's the result of years of hard work, and I shouldn't feel guilty for waiting to make a life-changing decision until the time the entire process expects me to (May 15)? Absolutely.

    Are you all angry at people for merely being on the fence and holding out for fin. aid decisions, scholarship offers, and second look weekends (at schools where you could see yourself being swayed to by scholarships - which is where I'm sitting). Or, are you guys angry at someone holding onto an acceptance that they have 0% chance of going to, even if given a scholarship and large stipend (which, as I've said, I've withdrawn from 2 already)?

    And I still want to echo (4th time now?) that a withdrawal at this point means nothing as schools won't hand out more acceptances or move waitlists until May 15, anyways.

    D~D - you don't need a separate category. I'll bet you anything if you started a X v. Y v. Z. thread of your 3 "top-20" schools, you'd get flamed. I'm not commenting on the validity of the ranking or tiers, but the fact that people in SDN get angry whenever someone comments on "higher ranked" (however they define it) school's acceptance.
     
  40. ocdmd

    ocdmd New Member

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    Didn't you start a thread slamming marginal applicants for constantly talking about how strong their ECs were? You're being hypocritical. Aren't those people you belittled entitled to start as many threads as they want about how spectacular their ECs are, just like ppl should be able to start threads debating Harvard and Hopkins without being attacked? You can't have it both ways. If it really bothers you how superstar candidates (like yourself) are flamed for voicing their opinions and concerns, then maybe you shouldn't go out of your way to put down/attack applicants who don't have your stats. You're right that people should be able to debate Harvard and Hopkins openly, but you have zero credibility on this issue because of the things you've said in the past.
     
  41. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    While May 15 is the date at which multiply-accepted applicants must relinquish their other acceptances, and thus clear the log-jam for wait-list movement, acceptances are handed-out from hold and wait-lists before then depending upon the particular medial school.
     
  42. tdd340

    tdd340 Assistant to the sensei
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    Just want to second this, some schools may operate as Humble has indicated but to say that no more acceptances will go out because of people withdrawing before May 15 is just inaccurate.
     
  43. soonerfan77

    soonerfan77 Rather be golfin'
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    Understood. But a lot of people do not have the time to set up a profile. As a result, typing in a list(even a list of 14 acceptances) would be less time consuming. As far as arrogance, I don't have a single acceptance, and I, personally, see nothing wrong in others sharing the "fruit of their labor". Congratulations to those with acceptances, and to those with none, toughen up a little and try not to be so sensitive when someone else has something you want sooo badly. We are all adults here or should be! So back to my original request, please do not think sharing your acceptances with others is going to offend. On the contrary, it will allow those who are waiting to gauge the possible waitlist movement, even if doesn't occur until AFTER May 15.:cool:
     
  44. HumbleMD

    HumbleMD hmmmm...
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    That post from ages ago was trying to first comment on the subjectivity of one's own self-evaluation of subjective things like interviews and Extra-curriculars (I referenced the interesting survey that a vast majority people assume they are of above-average intelligence). I was trying to assert that people should humbly (as I do) assume that these subjective things aren't always above average (as people typically assume). I also wanted to confront the assumption that just becuase someone has a good GPA and MCAT, that they are uncharismatic, have no ECs, or are horrible interviewers. No, I don't believe someone should start a thread about how fantastic their EC's are. That would be bragging. I do believe that people should be allowed to ask questions and use SDN as a sounding board without getting flamed, whether or not their situation is different that someone more or less "succesfull" in the applications process.

    I'd say your whopping 7 posts gives you zero credibility. And for the record, I don't post my GPA and MCAT score, save my mdapplicants profile, or discuss my acceptances (or display them in my sig) unless asked or in the acceptance thread.

    I think what's starting to rear its ugly head in this thread and others is feelings of entitlement. It seems quite bold to assert that other applicants and schools owe them an interview/acceptance/whatever. If this process has taught most anything, its that we can't expect or deserve anything in the medical school application process. I humbly expected zero in the process, and hoped for the best.

    As far as people thinking I'm humble or not, I could care less about what people on an internet forum think of me. Other's affirmation in real life are all I need - we can drop this branch of the discussion right now.

    I'm still wondering on my question, repeated below:
    Are you all angry at people for merely being on the fence and holding out for fin. aid decisions, scholarship offers, and second look weekends (at schools where you could see yourself being swayed to by scholarships - which is where I'm sitting). Or, are you guys angry at someone holding onto an acceptance that they have 0% chance of going to, even if given a scholarship and large stipend (which, as I've said, I've withdrawn from 2 already)?
     
  45. xylem29

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    Well, imo - I think internet forums are real-life, we are living in the 21st century. It's legit dude, don't diss internet forums!

    I'm not angry at anyone but to answer your question, I would be angry at "Or, are you guys angry at someone holding onto an acceptance that they have 0% chance of going to, even if given a scholarship and large stipend"

    And that 14 acceptances story was not from Dean Dodson - though I wish it was b/c I hear everyone he interviews gets accepted!!! It was from someone else and the story was not that the student held onto them all beyond may 15...(at least that what my interviewer said), it was the candidate held onto 14 acceptances during the cycle leading up to may 15.

    anyway, isn't it impossible to hold onto more than 1 acceptance after may15? i thought that it was "med school law" or something - if you break this law, can't schools all start revoking acceptances?
     
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  46. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    Affirmative
     
  47. Tired Pigeon

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    Humble, to be honest you really do sometimes come off as pretty condescending and non-humble. And no, I'm not angry/jealous/upset about anything -- I am already IN med school, at my first choice school, so my perceptions of you have nothing to do with seeing you as my "competition" in the application process or anything like that. I was not waitlisted, so there's no hidden agenda of lingering bitterness here either. Really, I am just making an observation on the way you communicate in this forum.

    Actually I think many of the points you make are valid and well thought out, but you put them out there in a way that sounds pompous and arrogant. When you sound like that, people don't want to listen. I tend to think you don't realize you sound like this, but FWIW it might benefit you in the future if you were to take a closer look at this issue.
     
  48. NN11

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    JM, this is exactly what I was thinking. Let me finish this thought by saying that if "rank" is important to you and you wouldn't consider going to a lower ranked/unranked school even with some sort of scholarship then by all means withdraw from the lower ranked school and give another deserving applicant a spot.
     
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  49. thebeatblitz

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    Hold your acceptances until you get the entire picture. While I don't think "leveraging" a lower priority school is necessarily the smartest idea in the world, it might pan out. Who knows.

    In the end, (mostly) everything will be resolved May 15th, so what's the big rush. However, consider your future before you're swayed by internet folk.
     
  50. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    I can tell you that the person who lectured my interview group about being considerate to your fellow applicants (with regards to unnecessarily holding acceptances) is a real-life Dean of Admissions, who also posts on SDN.
     
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