Holistic medicine

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Not only have you misunderstood (and mis-characterized) my argument, but you've misunderstood the entire context of this discussion. Either you didn't read the discussion, or you read the discussion and you didn't understand it.

The point of the albino limb example is to show that belief without reason is not harmless. We have no reason (i.e. evidence) to believe in the efficacy of alternative medicine (herbs, essences, or witchcraft). It doesn't matter how many people profess firsthand experience with these remedies, the fact is that they are founded in failed science, unfalsifiable thesis's, and superstition.

I never imagined that someone would call my bluff and be receptive to the idea that albino limbs have medicinal property (touche' August West).

I'm open to any idea that is falsifiable and can be provided with good reason to believe it. I'm not interested in forming "kind" rebukes to people with terrible ideas about medicine. I believe, firmly, that bad ideas in the public sphere should be criticized. We should not cover our ears and turn our heads when future medical practitioners are expressing credulity to nonsense.

Talk about mis-characterizations. This has nothing to do with your absurd hypothetical. All I stated was that when potential alternative treatments are upheld to and scrutinized under a comprehensive set of criteria, such as efficacy, known side effects, ethical principles, practicality, legality, etc. - there is no reason to believe that such medicine cannot coexist with and compliment more traditional methods. I don't care if it is aromatherapy, playing music for the animal or an herbal tincture. If Tinkle Tonic reduces the number of UTIs a cat suffers through and improves their overall health while showing no side effects, then why not embrace it? This whole discussion is a bit silly to me. Perhaps it all comes down to semantics. But anything that enhances the wellness of animals, whether it is deemed traditional or alternative, bizarre or mundane, and accepted by your vet school or dismissed as an "old wive's tale" is worth a further investigation to me. Call it intellectual curiosity... or naivety if you like.

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I'm fairly sure I may have written about this before...

On man's (or woman's) placebo effect is another man's urine therapy. What is urine therapy? Well we learned about it in pharmacology that pretty much no matter what you do 80% of your patients are going to get better. That is you could urinate on your patients and chances are you would cure them of their ailments roughly 80% of the time.

The only alternative therapies I think are total crap are crystals, transmitting good vibes to an animal, flower essences (may work for anxiety/topical antimicrobial, def not treating dz IMO). If it seems like magic, it's probably too good to be true.

As a side note, I seem to recall reading in the news about a study that said acupuncture works because it's actually damaging nerves a bit -- off to Dr. Google to see what I can find on that..
 
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I'm fairly sure I may have written about this before...

On man's (or woman's) placebo effect is another man's urine therapy. What is urine therapy? Well we learned about it in pharmacology that pretty much no matter what you do 80% of your patients are going to get better. That is you could urinate on your patients and chances are you would cure them of their ailments roughly 80% of the time.

The only alternative therapies I think are total crap are crystals, transmitting good vibes to an animal, flower essences (may work for anxiety/topical antimicrobial, def not treating dz IMO). If it seems like magic, it's probably too good to be true.

As a side note, I seem to recall reading in the news about a study that said acupuncture works because it's actually damaging nerves a bit -- off to Dr. Google to see what I can find on that..

But, but... what about using the limbs of albino babies??? (sarcasm) :laugh:
 
One of the vets who used to be at my clinic did a lot of chiro and acupuncture work. That's really all I know about holistic medicine, though. Would love to learn more, even if it is just to know "the other side."

I -do- think in some ways we should take a more natural approach with our animals. I won't bring up nutrition and diet, since there's a thread on that, but does anyone else here think that we over vaccinate our animals? I do. I did puppy vaccines, 1 year vaccines, and 2 year vaccines on my dog, and now I'm not going to vaccinate for at least another three years on the core vaccines, and I'll probably run a bunch of titers on her.

Just wanted to say, I am so relieved that you mentioned it too. I was hesitant to bring it up since most people I encounter seem brainwashed and insist on yearly vaccines throughout the lifetime of a pet, as the pharm companies would very well hope. I rescued my little one, so he came with his 1 year, we just did the 2 year and he had a severe reaction. Most of what I can find suggests that vaccine acquired immunity diminishes with age anyway. I have no idea how/why we got suckered into the notion of yearly 8-in-1 super shots. I think we will titer for most of them from now on too.

Anyone else familiar with vaccinosis and Dr. Pitcairn's holistic approaches? Opinions?
 
But, but... what about using the limbs of albino babies??? (sarcasm) :laugh:

lol... wow... I've debated a few pretty hardcore conservatives online; none have ever made jokes about the senseless death of children.
 
lol... wow... I've debated a few pretty hardcore conservatives online; none have ever made jokes about the senseless death of children.

I believe the comment was referencing your comparing the death of children to holistic approaches on pets. Again, holistic veterinary treatment does not use methods that involve harming children or any species, young, old, etc. Some of the holistic practices may not even speak to me, but others have earned their place in the field.
 
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Hippocrates left historical records of pain relief treatments, including the use of powder made from the bark and leaves of the willow tree to help heal headaches, pains and fevers.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]By 1829, scientists discovered that it was the compound called salicin in willow plants which gave you the pain relief.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] -taken from about.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]This passage is about aspirin. Did anyone know why it worked until 1829? No. They just knew it worked. I'm sure someone out there was convinced that it was voodoo crap.
[/SIZE]



[SIZE=-1]I think that just because we don't yet understand the mechanisms of how some of these treatments work doesn't necessarily mean that they don't work. That's not to say that I think that all alternative treatments have any merit (for example, I think Reiki is absurd). But I'm not willing to discount all of them just because we haven't figured it out yet. We started doing laser therapy at my old clinic and had good results.
[/SIZE]



[SIZE=-1]I think that if traditional medicine has failed to work and it is not going to cause harm to try less traditional treatments, then go for it. I do believe that placebo effect on the owner can have an effect on the animal. I can't be the only person to have the experience of removing a very anxious dog from a room only to find that the dog isn't so anxious without the very worried owner hovering over it. And I believe treatments such as acupuncture have a mechanism that we just haven't discovered yet.
[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=-1] -taken from about.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]This passage is about aspirin. Did anyone know why it worked until 1829? No. They just knew it worked. I'm sure someone out there was convinced that it was voodoo crap.
[/SIZE]



[SIZE=-1]I think that just because we don't yet understand the mechanisms of how some of these treatments work doesn't necessarily mean that they don't work. That's not to say that I think that all alternative treatments have any merit (for example, I think Reiki is absurd). But I'm not willing to discount all of them just because we haven't figured it out yet. We started doing laser therapy at my old clinic and had good results.
[/SIZE]



[SIZE=-1]I think that if traditional medicine has failed to work and it is not going to cause harm to try less traditional treatments, then go for it. I do believe that placebo effect on the owner can have an effect on the animal. I can't be the only person to have the experience of removing a very anxious dog from a room only to find that the dog isn't so anxious without the very worried owner hovering over it. And I believe treatments such as acupuncture have a mechanism that we just haven't discovered yet.
[/SIZE]

Excellent point. :thumbup:

I think it is interesting seeing so many individuals with low post counts chiming in on this type of discussion. Do you think that some of the more senior posters here have bigger things on their minds? :)
 
I believe the comment was referencing your comparing the death of children to holistic approaches on pets. Again, holistic veterinary treatment does not use methods that involve harming children or any species, young, old, etc. Some of the holistic practices may not even speak to me, but others have earned their place in the field.

I didn't compare the death of children to holistic medicine. I compared the evidence of witchcraft to the evidence of holistic treatments. Usually, someone is then forced to recognize that beliefs without evidence can have terrible consequences. True, the consequences may be trivial in medicine (I would argue that they're not), but they are certainly not trivial to the human condition. August West, however, thinks they are; she's joking about. And so is iheartpandas.

The conversation took a bizarre turn here, imo:

davidd said:
Foregoing any ethical or legal dilemma, are you're open to the possibility that the severed limbs of albino children can heal the sick?
August West said:
Yes, I am open to such a distinct possibility. Science and the world around us never ceases to amaze me.


When someone proudly professes credulity to the most irrational beliefs, how can you possibly reason with them? What could I ever say to August West to convince her that the severed limbs of albinos do not have medicinal property? She has already proclaimed she's open to believe anything. Can you, annie800, imagine a situation where this attitude becomes extremely dangerous in the mind of a physician? I can think of a thousand.

It's easy to take the albino limb example out of context. You can even make a mockery of it (as August West and iheartpandas have done). It's a lot harder to parse the argument for flaws and respond with good reason, unless you do what August West did and just proclaim belief in everything.
 
I understand the argument you were trying to make, I think the problem is that you are using an argument that goes far beyond holistic medicine. What are the consequences for using aromatherapy and herbal teas for stress relief? I think that you make a valid argument that jumping into using holistic treatments without scientific evidence of their effectiveness, but I would not argue that believing lavender and chamomile have calming effects is on the same level as believing severed limbs from albino children have healing properties. And I don't think there is anything wrong with using holistic treatments when "Western" medicines haven't worked for you. I personally didn't jump in to holistic treatments believing they would work. I tried Western treatments and holistic treatments and I personally felt that the holistic treatments either worked better or had fewer side effects. I don't use holistic treatments for everything, and, as stated in my first post, I realize that there certain things that require Western treatments.
 
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When someone proudly professes credulity to the most irrational beliefs, how can you possibly reason with them? What could I ever say to August West to convince her that the severed limbs of albinos do not have medicinal property? She has already proclaimed she's open to believe anything. Can you, annie800, imagine a situation where this attitude becomes extremely dangerous in the mind of a physician? I can think of a thousand.

It's easy to take the albino limb example out of context. You can even make a mockery of it (as August West and iheartpandas have done). It's a lot harder to parse the argument for flaws and respond with good reason, unless you do what August West did and just proclaim belief in everything.

Oh please. Such dramatics. First of all, I am a male. The name August is taken from a Grateful Dead song about an old man that lives down by the docks. You might want to be careful of making such assumptions. Another thing. Your attempts to distort my opinions and statements and take them out of context is akin to the work of a sophomoric Sean Hannity disciple. You conveniently continue to leave out that I included a comprehensive list of criteria that is attached to my open-minded view of the world around me. The first metric being efficacy. Remember? Along with practicality, ethical principle, legality and logistics, I think it is quite clear how I - as a medical professional - would regard and approach something as absurd as utilizing the limbs of albino children in my practice. So, while I applaud your dramatic flair, I think perhaps you've been debating with your "conservative friends" too much lately and taken on some of their intellectually dishonest spin tactics.

I also recommend going back and reading Vydellia's previous post about Hippocrates and the discovery of aspirin within[SIZE=-1] the bark and leaves of the willow tree[/SIZE]. Seems you glossed right over this entire response. This poster does a better job of articulating the point that I was trying to make. But perhaps you already knew that and disregarded it for that very reason. ;)

Take care...
 
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I wanted to see where this thread went in terms of vaccines and treatments, but no one can even see those comments because this argument is going on for miles.

I do not feel that Witchcraft or severed limbs is comparable to Holistic Treatment. In terms of diet, supplements, herbs, and even some joint relief, holistic approaches are fairly sound. Most vets would agree. I cannot comment on other areas because MUCH LIKE YOURSELF, I have no experience in these areas.

Anyhow, what say you, SDNers, on vaccines and Dr. Pitcairn?
 
There is a ignorance in every generation to believe that we know best. Our current definition of western medicine has not been around all that long, not when compared to that of traditional Chinese medicine. Before there were mass produced pharmaceuticals (again, in the grand scheme of things a very recent development) herbs or other material found in nature were used in medicine. Although the life expectancy has increased, it's not really fair to credit western medicine with that as times have changed a lot as well...we know more about the body and it's reaction to bacteria, etc.

But what is to say that 1000 years from now there won't be consequences of our current practices? Keep in mind we evolved thus far, and the use of vaccination (by our current standards, with preservatives that are known carcinogens) is a new development. Thalidomide, DDT...the list could go on and on.

Could all the other generations been completely wrong that some of these "alternative" therapies? And do we really need to know how something works to prove that it does work?

I have worked for holistic vets for years now. I have always been very open to the idea of alternative medicine, but when I started at the practice I started to notice a huge trend. Animals that come to use come mostly because conventional medicine has given up, and people are just trying to make their animals comfortable while they wait for them to die. But the expected 2 months then goes onto a year or more, and the animal feels GOOD the whole time. Keep in mind this is often after tramadol and metacam to keep their pain manageable before, these animals are completely off the drugs and are usually on a mixture of a TCM herb combination to treat the body as a whole and weekly acupuncture. Very often we will see a shrinkage in tumors or a massive improvement on blood work in these animals as well.

Does that mean that I am against conventional treatments? Not at all, not when they provide the safest form of treatment and are able to treat, not just cover up symptoms in our animals.

I hope to go into holistic equine practice eventually as well.
 
:hijacked:
I wanted to see where this thread went in terms of vaccines and treatments, but no one can even see those comments because this argument is going on for miles.

I do not feel that Witchcraft or severed limbs is comparable to Holistic Treatment. In terms of diet, supplements, herbs, and even some joint relief, holistic approaches are fairly sound. Most vets would agree. I cannot comment on other areas because MUCH LIKE YOURSELF, I have no experience in these areas.

Anyhow, what say you, SDNers, on vaccines and Dr. Pitcairn?

I've said this before. if the treatment causes no harm, why not? But the fact is that "herbal" supplements are medicine, just without the stringent rules that the FDA sets on prescriptions. Many clients forget that their animals are on medicines and neglect to tell vets about their herbal supplements. And there are drug interactions with herbal supplements just as there are with other medications. And you claim that they are fairly sound, but until there are studies, I will remain skeptical. At least there are studies on some approaches (i.e. acupuncture), but if you want to prove something works, do a scientific study.

Vaccines are tricky. It isn't recommended to get your animals vaccinated at certain times just to make money, it is also due to how long studies have indicated they last in the animal. I am all for titers if your state allows, but if it doesn't, then get the animal vaccinated because it is way worse for there to be an outbreak of something like rabies than it is for some animals to have an adverse reaction. Also, with the information about vaccines today, recommendations and laws are changing. But just remember, anecdotal evidence is not really evidence. As a side note, the "scientific" journal article about autism being caused by vaccines in humans was just retracted due to unscientific processes by the lead investigator.
 
:hijacked:
Anyhow, what say you, SDNers, on vaccines and Dr. Pitcairn?

Had to go back and re-read Pitcairn. On the whole, I think his statements are very sound and logical (particularly as the parent of a vaccine-induced immunocompromised cat).

The one place where I would take issue with him is in the use of nosodes, but then, that's only because I don't know enough about them. Perhaps I will *ahem* peruse the literature before writing them off as quackery. Here's an interesting one on nosodes and tularemia.

One of the reasons I got interested in veterinary medicine was because I felt there was a lot of promise (and interest) in complementary therapies, but that available research was lagging behind interest. (Part of that is money--big pharma isn't exactly going to pour money into demonstrating that munching on willow bark is as effective as synthetic aspirin in curing a headache.) I think those of us with an open mind, tempered by logic and a critical eye, have a unique opportunity to advance the field.
 
Pandas, Thank you for that link. I hears you completely. Lol Willow Bark. You make me giggle. :)

Dyachi, so good to know that we share the same view on it. Which laws have or will change? Rabies?
As for your comment, I still think i would like to use the same or similiar vaccine schedule as was done in the early 80s (as opposed to double or more vaccines). I would need to research all additional ones and consider them individually. If I did get some them for my children, I would certainly spread them apart.
 
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I still think i would like to use the same or similiar vaccine schedule as was done in the early 80s (as opposed to double or more vaccines).

Would you mind describing that schedule? (I was around in the early 80s, but all I had were pet frogs. And they all died. Yep, I'm gonna be a good vet. :rolleyes:)
 
Oh please. Such dramatics. First of all, I am a male. The name August is taken from a Grateful Dead song about an old man that lives down by the docks. You might want to be careful of making such assumptions.

I do apologize for referring to you as a female... it was nothing in your argument/tone, I just saw the name 'August West' and didn't think too much about it when I replied...

as for the argument, I don't have the energy to pursue it any further... but in response to Vydellia's point about Hippocrates: Hippocrates is the father of modern medicine. For his day, that was the apex of empirical knowledge. Today, modern doctors are following the path set by Hippocrates; healers are following the path set by witches and gypys.
 
Ummm...you guys do know that willowbark has salicylic acid (the active ingredient in aspirin) in it, right?
 
all I had were pet frogs. And they all died. Yep, I'm gonna be a good vet. :rolleyes:)


I replace my fish on a monthly basis. The trick is to buy ones that all look the same... I'll be right there beside you on the "good vet" list!

Heck, I've been known to forget to feed the dog. She loves to remind me though as soon as the clock hits 7:01, I'm late, and the nose lands on my knee.
 
Would you mind describing that schedule? (I was around in the early 80s, but all I had were pet frogs. And they all died. Yep, I'm gonna be a good vet. :rolleyes:)

Haha. Everyone has a story like that. Oh, the Goldfish from the Carnival. I never, ever shook the bag, but the little guy didn't make it. Who knows how long he was in the bag before I got him.

Ok, so dyachi mentioned autism and I mentioned 1980 vaccine schedule of humans. Hope you didn't think I was talking about pet vaccinations. In 1980, infants were vaccinated against four diseases -- diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and polio. Today, infants get up to 15 shots of five vaccines by the time they are six months old, and up to 5 additional shots of seven more vaccines by age two. These immunizations protect against 11 diseases in total -- diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis B, Haemophilus influenzae type b(commonly referred to as Hib disease), varicella, and pneumococcus.

Now, about pet vaccinations....
http://www.hcvma.org/notes/SpeakerNotesRichardFord.pdf
 
i'm working my way through a very good book (at least I think it's very good), called "complementary and alternative veterinary medicine considered," by bernard rollin. he's one of the harshest critics of CAVM, on the grounds of lack of rigorous evidence. his arguments are mostly from the ethics standpoint (that's his thing - he has written some of the seminal chapters on medico-legal ethics in the veterinary world). the book specifically touches on many of the arguments that I've seen so far in this thread (the "east vs. west" debate, the "it has worked for thousands of years," etc., etc.).

it's not a comforting read -i.e., you're not going to walk away feeling warm and fuzzy towards CAVM. however (and i can't stress this enough), he's mindful of the rather unique relationship we as vets will have with our patients, with the client often between us. one of his takeaway messages is that if the client is insisting on something, and you're fairly certain it won't hurt, but aren't sure it will help, then your best option is to work *with* the client, and learn as much as you can about the therapy they're interested in, in order to best serve your patient. on the other hand, if you're not certain that it won't hurt, then he argues that you're ethically bound *not* to encourage or recommend that therapy.

i'm still midway through the book, so i can't say for certain how he approaches things later on - but it's a very good read, from a very critical, but fair and well respected source.

you can get it from amazon.
 
In 1980, infants were vaccinated against four diseases -- diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and polio. Today, infants get up to 15 shots of five vaccines by the time they are six months old, and up to 5 additional shots of seven more vaccines by age two. These immunizations protect against 11 diseases in total -- diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis B, Haemophilus influenzae type b(commonly referred to as Hib disease), varicella, and pneumococcus.

Now, about pet vaccinations....
http://www.hcvma.org/notes/SpeakerNotesRichardFord.pdf

Eesh, I had no idea kids today got vaccinated for all that. What on earth for? If I'm doing okay with only the four vaccines, what's the justification for all those others for kids? Are those diseases more/less prevalent since they implemented that? Eesh. Good thing I am not having children.

Thanks for the Richard Ford notes... gonna take me a while to get through that but interesting stuff!
 
i'm working my way through a very good book (at least I think it's very good), called "complementary and alternative veterinary medicine considered," by bernard rollin.

Thanks for the book recommendation--he's a really hilarious lecturer. If you ever get a chance to hear him speak, go. I'll be interested to see his take (and I hope he includes lots of references to the primary literature, because I am lazy... :oops:)
 
I wish I had the opportunity to get the pertussis vaccine and the varicella vaccine. Instead I got chicken pox, no big deal, but the virus also causes shingles (hurt like hell) and shingles causes nerve damage and they can come and go at any time. I also got pertussis as an infant...it caused me to have seizures, the seizures caused me to be slightly delayed mentally and physically at a young age. I had to have speech, occupational, and physical therapy as a toddler and I was not supposed to be able to walk properly, talk properly and I was always supposed to struggle mentally with learning. Instead I worked my ass off and excelled and took honors courses instead of being held back (I love making doctors' assumptions wrong). So, I would have much rather just been vaccinated instead of struggling but oh well it all worked out in the end.
 
Hib was the leading cause of meningitis and one of the leading causes of pneumonia in kids before it was implemented as a vaccination. Now it has decreased significantly in the United States, due to vaccinated kids passing on the "herd health" concept to adults.

My cousin's kids went to a school where there were several unvaccinated children due to the parent's personal beliefs, and there was an outbreak of Hib, several kids got extremely sick and hospitalized....I don't have time to post articles/studies now, but just look up Hib.

I'd rather not mess with meningitis
 
Eesh, I had no idea kids today got vaccinated for all that. What on earth for? If I'm doing okay with only the four vaccines, what's the justification for all those others for kids? Are those diseases more/less prevalent since they implemented that?

Because people don't want their kids to get measles, mumps, or rubella? Those diseases can be fatal too.
 
Because people don't want their kids to get measles, mumps, or rubella? Those diseases can be fatal too.

And worse if you get it as an adult. Several universities in my city had a Mumps outbreak last year. The current students had only received one shot of the MMR vaccine as a kid, as opposed to three like their parents' generation had. The entire student population had to be vaccinated again. While I'm fairly certain no one died, it did seriously mess up the school year due to student absenteeism. And I'm sure the people who got Mumps would rather not have gotten it.
 
I was wondering if anyone knew of any literature about radiation hormesis? All of my searches have come up with books that cost a fortune or really biased testimonial-type articles.

The reason I ask is because lately I have known of several people with quite devestating illnesses that swear by a therapy with radioactive stones. I was just curious if anyone has heard of any such thing in the animal world??? or any of the "science?" that is involved?
 
I volunteer at a clinic where there is a vet who does mixed western and homeopathic stuff, a lot of acupunture especially, and it seems to work. He even had a paper in the local newspaper about him.

I was pretty skeptical about the effects at first, and I'd always attributed human acupuncture success and such to the placebo effect, but I don't think placebo would have much of an effect on animals, right? They don't exactly know that they're being stuck with needles to cure them.
 
Turq, I found the following article through my school's library. I don't know whether you will be able to access it, because I know connecting to journal databases through the school often gives me free access.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118810384/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

I didn't read the whole article (I mean, it was a whopping three pages!), but it was very interesting. Essentially, there have been numerous beneficial effects of radioactive stones (I'm assuming what the people you know are aiming for is "radiation hormesis"). The article itself is a summary of studies conducted, but essentially, they found that: Low dose radiation (LDR) could enhance the body's antioxidant response, promote DNA repair mechanisms, suppress autoimmune responses, reduce aggressive actions, increase the body's resistance to carcinogens, and a few others. Of course, this is all in mice, but I found it very interesting that there would be any beneficial effects to radiation (which is often seen as destructive). Guess for once homeopathy might do something?

If you can't read the article, let me know- I'm sure I could find a way to get it to you.
 
Turq, I found the following article through my school's library. I don't know whether you will be able to access it, because I know connecting to journal databases through the school often gives me free access.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118810384/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

I didn't read the whole article (I mean, it was a whopping three pages!), but it was very interesting. Essentially, there have been numerous beneficial effects of radioactive stones (I'm assuming what the people you know are aiming for is "radiation hormesis"). The article itself is a summary of studies conducted, but essentially, they found that: Low dose radiation (LDR) could enhance the body's antioxidant response, promote DNA repair mechanisms, suppress autoimmune responses, reduce aggressive actions, increase the body's resistance to carcinogens, and a few others. Of course, this is all in mice, but I found it very interesting that there would be any beneficial effects to radiation (which is often seen as destructive). Guess for once homeopathy might do something?

If you can't read the article, let me know- I'm sure I could find a way to get it to you.

Thanks BomberCanoe....this sounds like just the kind of article that I am looking for. But your link just brings up an error page. Maybe if you gave me the author and title I would be able to get it through my online database access (if its still active, lol)
 
AU: Harumi Ohyama
AU: Bing Wang
AU: Osami Yukawa
Radiation hormesis: Stimulatory effects of low doses ionizing radiation Geriatrics and Gerontology International
Volume 4
PG: S84-S86
YR: 2004
US: http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1447-0594.2004.00159.x


Just grabbed the citation, so that you can search for it by the author, journal, title, etc. That link at the bottom is different from the one I sent you, so it may work better?
 
au: Harumi ohyama
au: Bing wang
au: Osami yukawa
radiation hormesis: Stimulatory effects of low doses ionizing radiation geriatrics and gerontology international
volume 4
pg: S84-s86
yr: 2004
us: http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1447-0594.2004.00159.x


just grabbed the citation, so that you can search for it by the author, journal, title, etc. That link at the bottom is different from the one i sent you, so it may work better?

thanks!!!!!!!
 
Massage therapy, hyperbaric oxygen chambers and acupuncture are all ok in my book. But I absolutely draw the line at animal telepaths.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/sports/10horses.html


That's ridiculous. I agree alternative treatments are justified in some situations, but this is just a disgrace to veterinary medicine.

"I speak with them telepathically,” said Wittels, who predominately practices over the phone. “I can do that from anywhere in the world, it doesn’t matter where I am.”

So do they just hold the phone up to the horse's ear?
 
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