holy **** i need advice: academic misconduct

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What a load of crap. You are not in grade school and you knew what you were doing. If you did not know what you were doing, then you are too stupid to be admitted to med school Go sell cars.
 
Well, quite honestly, it doesn't seem to me like you're going to win your appeal since what you did is pretty much the definition of plagiarism. I agree with the others that you should put your application on hold for right now until things cool off. The only thing that can heal academic misconduct of this magnitude, if anything can, is time, distance, and retribution. If you check that you have no violations on your academic record on the AMCAs application, are accepted, and then med schools find out (which they have a pretty good chance of doing since you failed the evolution class-- they're going to want an explanation for that one), you can kiss med school in the United States good-bye forever. If you check that you have an academic misconduct and apply now, chances are that most schools are going to pass you over anyway, especially since you have a sub-par mcat score.

The first thing you should do is come to grips with the fact that what you did is plagiarize. You took someone else's work and turned it in as your own without citing it. In the academic world, you need to realize that this is a really serious offense. The second thing you need to do is be really really sorry for doing this. The third thing you should consider doing is some sort of retribution-- speaking to incoming freshmen about the evils of plagiarism and how you got lazy and did it, etc. and how it ruined your life temporarily. Meanwhile, take a couple of years and strengthen your med school application. Doing these things, and you might have a chance at US schools. Good luck.
 
searun said:
What a load of crap. You are not in grade school and you knew what you were doing. If you did not know what you were doing, then you are too stupid to be admitted to med school Go sell cars.
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ouch dude, thats a little harsh don't you think? Why so callous and judgemental?
 
dasaniwater said:
I definitely agree with most of what you guys are saying. Never did I say that I was going to not check the box or never tell med schools about this.
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That's odd, when you wrote:

dasaniwater said:
When I submit AMCAS, I wont check the box.
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... most people would assume you meant that you won't check the box.

Many people have said to wait a year to apply. The more I think about it and read these posts, the more I am leaning towards waiting another year. Also, my mcat is below 30, but GPA is great and applying early would make me a more decent candidate. But, since I know this appeal process will take 10 days to submit an appeal, and other 3-4 weeks for a decision, then maybe I should wait another 4-5 weeks instead of waiting a year. Would put me at a disadvantage though, because I'd apply mid-July? My stats aren't stellar so I am guessing it would. hmmmmm..what do you all think?
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Refocus. You were worried about your MCAT and GPA and applying early before this incident. Now it's totally insignificant compared to the issue of academic misconduct. Incidentally, given that it's virtually impossible to cheat on the MCAT, what do you think an ADCOM might suspect if they see a great GPA, a mediocre MCAT (though you didn't mention how far below 30 it is), and academic misconduct? I really think you have to resolve this issue and get if off your record, if possible, before applying.
 
dasaniwater:

I'm sorry that you've found yourself in this situation. I will agree that this is something that happens all the time. Of course that won't justify the act itself.

If you were to explain yourself, don't try to defend the claim that what you did wasn't actually plagiarism. It was. Actually, I took a microbiology course where I'd guess a significant portion of the students "plagiarized" on a particular assignment quite similar to yours. Luckily, the professor was not as harsh. She just told everyone that not citing the article was a major scholarly offense and told us we either needed to paraphrase or cite the article for the next assignment. I think plagiarism offenses can vary by severity and I would place your offense on the lesser side of such a continuum.

If you don't manage to convince your school to take back their decision then I suggest you explain yourself on the AMCAS/secondaries. Hopefully, some schools will be understanding and forgiving enough. If I was an interviewer and you were able to convince me that you were a very kind, humble, and compassionate person, I wouldn't hold this particular plagiarism offense against you.
 
Hey dasani. I'm kinda on your side, so I'd like to see how this all pans out for you.

At my school, most papers and such that are formal are required to be turned in through www.turnitin.com. thats where all the plagiarism searching is done.

A silly copy and paste assignment is difficult to do without having things worded verbatim. How many ways are there to say "We incubated the sample at 37c for 10 minutes"?

However--- if your assignment required more thought, synthesis, and etc... I see grounds for plagiarism charges.


In any event, you've been found guilty at the hearing. I would fight with every ounce of strength you have, talk to the ombudsman, and perhaps get a lawyer to help you out. you may consider waiting until the 2009 fall admit applications, and take a year off to do something productive.

I do have to say, that as a junior or senior in college, you should understand how seriously plagiarism is taken by school officials. My professor in micro recently pressed CRIMINAL charges for academic misconduct (the details have not been made clear, but it dealt with a PhD student, and funded research).

sigh. keep me posted.
 
dasaniwater said:
In our instance, we gave answers to questions that professor and TAs knew exactly where it was coming from; the article. The fact that we stated actually scientific facts is not plagairism. For example: If I write down that mercury is the closet planet to the sun. Would I have to cite who came up with the idea, or is it a scientific fact that needs no citing? What we did is similar to what question I posed to you, just more complex.
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Therein lies a problem. It is plagiarism to use scientific facts if the facts are not common knowledge. If I wrote an assignment on the use of 40Ar-36Ar and 15N-14N isotopes and how it provides higher resolution paleoclimate record than methane and 18O-16O records, it is "scientific fact", but I would still have to cite Severinghaus and Brook (1999).

Lastly, we used words on the article and specific sentences because we weren'y saying those ideas were our own. It is kind of hard basing your all opinions without looking at exactly what we did and what not, so I can see where you are thinking "Plagairism is this and this and anything else is different." It just isnt the case in this incident that what we did definitely constitutes plagairism or is definitely not.
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That is a roundabout argument. You used information from a scientific article without citing it, and then rationalized that you didn't need to cite it because it is from a scientific article. 😕
 
smeagol said:
dasaniwater:

I would place your offense on the lesser side of such a continuum.

If I was an interviewer and you were able to convince me that you were a very kind, humble, and compassionate person, I wouldn't hold this particular plagiarism offense against you.
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Look at the news. UC is getting ready to dump a tenured professor for plagiarism.

Coming from the side of student government I come from I can see somewhat from the interviewer's (professor) eyes. His infraction, no matter how insignificant to some, is a big deal to professors who demand professionalism.

I think he/she has an impossible hurdle to jump without getting that expunged from the record. If he did do it then expungement (is that a word?) is not likely.
 
regardless of what you do, that F might be a red flag and in an interview they might just straight up ask you about it so then you must decide if you are going to lie and make something up or spill the beans at that point.
 
Survival of the fittest. The most intelligent and the honest survive... and the cheaters and the idiots are not rewarded with survival or at least are disqualified from this particular race. Works for me. I have no problem with this at all. This restores my faith in academic integrity. I applaud this university.
 
postbacker said:
This transgression will appear on your transcript - it is not going to go away because you did not "check" a box on the application. And when they piece it together and figure out that you lied on the app, you can kiss med school bye bye forever...
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No, it will not appear on the transcript. Probably just an F in the class.

Retake the class, don't check the box, and apply widely. Avoid schools such as WashU which require a dean's verification letter, and don't use the committee (some committees take forever to compose the letter, which can put you at a disadvantage with respect to applying early). What you did was idiotic, but schools have better things to do than to investigate these things hardcore. The worst that can happen is that a school finds out (how? who knows) and you have to go to the Caribbean. Unless you specifically sign your rights away in your secondary app, or with a Dean's verification letter as with WashU, FERPA says that schools have no right to investigate these things without your express permission. Yes, obviously it will be unfair for all of us who haven't cheated and got in just fine, but that's life.
 
Firstly, I'd try to talk to the professor, i realize that you have an appeal going but sometimes going right to the source helps.

Of course, try not to put the professor to blame, no one likes being told they are wrong. The professor is partially at fault here, giving an article directly related to a questions, from which information can be used verbatim to answer said question. As a professor, i'd have seen copied responses coming from a mile away.

Yes, what you did is plagiarism by definition. However, I believe you when you say "much of the class did the same," because it is very commonplace in college--I've seen it plenty. Its bound to happen. The problem is your case is similar to "being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Personally? I feel you have legitimate grounds to fight the misconduct, I would look into getting the lawyer. Yes, believe it or not, it has some effect, schools will not want to a) draw attention to themselves in this manner, b) want to waste/time money over a minor (yes, minor) plagiarism charge on ONE student. Your charge should not be equivalent to someone who might have plagiarized to a greater degree.

You definitely SHOULD wait till this is all sorted out and you should REALLY work on your MCAT, in light of what has happened. If you do get the misconduct removed, make sure you try to get that grade for Evol bio back...THIS is provided you feel there is a good shot at it. The schools do not know about academic misconduct, unless they ask. Your transcript will reflect the grade, i'd just retake the course if you can (not at the same school).

Some of you guys are writing some really harsh, useless comments. There is no need for that. It is obvious that this guy is under some pretty big stress, and hes asking for sincere advice, not "Hey your an idiot." Face it. Everyone f*cks up, thats why the term "given a second chance" exists.

Good luck with everything man, I feel for ya. Whatever you do, make sure you think through things rationally before taking action.

Believe it or not everyone has cheated, yes even you people who say "No I have never ever ever done it," trust me you have.
 
a lot of people in college get academic misconduct, it seems like now a days it is given out for the most unreasonable things. I dont think it will hurt your chances greatly for medical school. some people on this thread are saying to find a new career blah blah blah... I am sure tons of applicants have academic misconducts they give them out daily in college. Just be honest on your application and I am sure you will be asked about it at interviews however i dont think they will just toss away your app just because you have an academic misconduct.
 
BrutusBuckeyeMD said:
a lot of people in college get academic misconduct, it seems like now a days it is given out for the most unreasonable things. I dont think it will hurt your chances greatly for medical school. some people on this thread are saying to find a new career blah blah blah... I am sure tons of applicants have academic misconducts they give them out daily in college. Just be honest on your application and I am sure you will be asked about it at interviews however i dont think they will just toss away your app just because you have an academic misconduct.
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This comment suggest that you are very naive. Academic institutions such as medical schools take this very seriously, as they should. Otherwise, the basic premise on which these institutions operate is undermined. If you think this is trivial, then you, also, should apply for a job at your local used car lot.
Didn't your parents teach you anything when you were little? What is the basis for your morality, or is the word, "morality," an alien concept?
 
Apply to Ross University. At an info-session at my school they explained how understanding they were to such personal situations and how they had admitted a student with drug abuse records because she really cared about medicine (at this point i left the info-session).

but anyways good luck to you. i hope that it works out for you and be more conscious in the future.
 
PreMed4Dummies said:
a student with drug abuse records
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I wonder if you realize that the author of your signature quotation, Dr Osler, proverbial patron saint of this profession, was addicted to morphine / opiates?

Anyway, there was a guy from TX who always used to post... Rice undergrad... had an avatar of a voluptuous young Asian woman... he had a cheating incident that he declared honestly and it sort of blackballed him. Not sure what his admission status is now.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
I wonder if you realize that the author of your signature quotation, Dr Osler, proverbial patron saint of this profession, was addicted to morphine / opiates?
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yes i am quite aware of this, though i still choose to not use them myself!
 
searun said:
This comment suggest that you are very naive. Academic institutions such as medical schools take this very seriously, as they should. Otherwise, the basic premise on which these institutions operate is undermined. If you think this is trivial, then you, also, should apply for a job at your local used car lot.
Didn't your parents teach you anything when you were little? What is the basis for your morality, or is the word, "morality," an alien concept?
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Searun....Yes actually this is more trivial than you are making sound. It could have been far worse. He could have written a lab report and claimed information as his own. Could have been worse, he could have just photocopied an unacquainted classmates answers. Now if he did THAT, I wouldn't even say "Sorry, good luck with everything."

It is you, my friend, who is being naive by refusing to acknowledge that there are in fact degrees of plagiarism. I would also go as far as to say you are being ignorant...especially with all the comments about used car salesmen. Did it occur to you that perhaps someone's parents here ARE used car salesmen?? Perhaps you don't know some good salesmen...I know a couple that pull in six figures..that doesn't seem so bad does it?

As for morality--your morality is your own. Do not impose. Yes different morals ARE possible, think about the variety of situations people grow up in. I know, I know, news to me too!. Stop being so hostile, and open up that sheltered mind of yours. Theres a great quote..maybe you've heard it..."if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it all." Replace the "nice" with helpful.
 
searun said:
This comment suggest that you are very naive. Academic institutions such as medical schools take this very seriously, as they should. Otherwise, the basic premise on which these institutions operate is undermined. If you think this is trivial, then you, also, should apply for a job at your local used car lot.
Didn't your parents teach you anything when you were little? What is the basis for your morality, or is the word, "morality," an alien concept?
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I DO Think it is wrong to plagarize. however what i was trying to say is that i dont think that your application will get thrown out (like some people were suggesting) you will just have to explain yourself in the interview
 
I think that stating that we didnt intend on plagairizing will help us. Also stating the failing a class for an unintentional act is crazy might help us.
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No offense, but that's about the most idiotic thing I've heard on this forum. By all means, go in there, tongue blazing, and tell them that their original punishment was "crazy." Way to win them over to your side.

Your reason sounds juvenile. I don't care if everyone else does it. I don't care if you didn't "mean" to do it. Every time a judicial committee hears that, they automatically translate it into: "I didn't mean to get caught."
 
mms2k7 said:
Searun....Yes actually this is more trivial than you are making sound. It could have been far worse. He could have written a lab report and claimed information as his own. Could have been worse, he could have just photocopied an unacquainted classmates answers. Now if he did THAT, I wouldn't even say "Sorry, good luck with everything."

It is you, my friend, who is being naive by refusing to acknowledge that there are in fact degrees of plagiarism. I would also go as far as to say you are being ignorant...especially with all the comments about used car salesmen. Did it occur to you that perhaps someone's parents here ARE used car salesmen?? Perhaps you don't know some good salesmen...I know a couple that pull in six figures..that doesn't seem so bad does it?

As for morality--your morality is your own. Do not impose. Yes different morals ARE possible, think about the variety of situations people grow up in. I know, I know, news to me too!. Stop being so hostile, and open up that sheltered mind of yours. Theres a great quote..maybe you've heard it..."if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it all." Replace the "nice" with helpful.
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^^^^I agree
 
She is a graduatiing senior, due to walk this spring and is going to out of the country over the summer. Failing this class postpones graduation, makes her have to take summer school, and doesnt allow her to go out of the country for as long as she wants to.
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She can't go out of the country for as long as she wants to? Well, boo freaking hoo. Maybe she should thank her lucky stars she isn't being expelled. Sorry, I have no patience for cheaters and that's what you two did, intentional or not. I work very hard for my grades and nothing steams me more than people who don't do the work but still want the grade, then consider LYING about it on AMCAS. Why should you be given a seat in med school over someone who had no such infraction on their record? I hope you get caught.
 
BrutusBuckeyeMD said:
I DO Think it is wrong to plagarize. however what i was trying to say is that i dont think that your application will get thrown out (like some people were suggesting) you will just have to explain yourself in the interview
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There are too many people with unblemished records. I wouldn't give an applicant who had been convicted of plagiarism a first look. Yes, the first things I would look for are any red flags, even before I read through the app. It is easier to help a student with lower numbers than a candidate with stellar numbers who has a bad attitude that was convicted of plagiarism.

Dasani: none of us know your situation. The more you try to explain yourself the more you are confusing me. All I can say is on your appeal and your med school app--DON'T LIE! Remember humility will get you further than defiance during you your appeal process. You need to find out from the school registrar if that conviction will be on your transcripts. My guess is something will show up on it but I'm not the registrar.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
She can't go out of the country for as long as she wants to? Well, boo freaking hoo. Maybe she should thank her lucky stars she isn't being expelled. Sorry, I have no patience for cheaters and that's what you two did, intentional or not. I work very hard for my grades and nothing steams me more than people who don't do the work but still want the grade, then consider LYING about it on AMCAS. Why should you be given a seat in med school over someone who had no such infraction on their record? I hope you get caught.
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Agreed. Don't cheat. Don't Lie. I too worked hard, and if you do those things you don't deserve a seat in med school.
 
I feel for you that you are in the situation, but honestly the only advice is to get it off your record asap using any means possible lawyer, politician, or another professors who know you well. If it is documented on your record it will definetly haunt you. It won't only hurt you for medical school, it can still hurt you for residency, and even for getting a job in a hospital if you don't go into private practice. My dad is an interviewer for residencies and said if there is any red mark on an applicants record it will lead to an automatic rejecton from the program. He told me of a student that was just suspected of cheating on an exam, it was documented and it was found out to be a false accusation. Even in this case the student was rejected from the residency program. Again you don't want anything like this on your record in any way becuase it will haunt you. Try to do the best you can in the course and try to plead your case. However if it isn't wiped off the slate, I think most schools will have a major problem with it no matter how high your GPA is or whatever MCAT score you have. I hope it all goes well for you. America is country that gives people second chances. Hopefully you will get one. I think plagiarism is terrible, and someone who is found guilty of it should be blacklisted and I have no sympathy for that person.
 
dasaniwater said:
Wow, so you not only spend your precious time stating things that insult the OP
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OP: Do you often refer to yourself in the 3rd person? very odd...you have done it at least twice in this thread...

Troll?
 
BrutusBuckeyeMD said:
I DO Think it is wrong to plagarize. however what i was trying to say is that i dont think that your application will get thrown out (like some people were suggesting) you will just have to explain yourself in the interview
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No, if he is smart and decides to be honest on AMCAS, and applies immediately after this incident, his application will probably be thrown out by med schools everywhere. As a previous poster said, there are just far too many applicants with unblemished records out there who are equal if not better applicants; plus no one wants to take a chance on someone who has a history of plagiarism. Pretty much the only thing (if there is anything) that can heal academic misconduct of this magnitude is time, distance, and retribution. Medicine is a profession of integrity, and there is no way that any US medical school is going to admit him barring solid proof that he has learned his lesson and will never, ever do anything like this again.
 
First piece of advice, stop talking, period. You need to get a lawyer ASAP. I'm surprised Law2Doc hasn't joined in on this thread already! Anyways, this "violation" is going to follow you for a long time, so fight it to the end. As some have already mentioned, this situation will basically blackball you from academia. And in the ultra-competitive med school process, you are now severely handicapped.

As for the charge, I have TAed classes/labs, and your violation sounds very weak. You were obviously singled out for collaborating, not plagiarizing. You'd be amazed at the amount of plagiarism that goes unreported. But you need to stop defending yourself and claiming "everyone did it," it's immature and implies guilt. Your lawyer will do the digging for you, and when people have to start answering questions, it's amazing how quickly "issues" disappear.
 
mms2k7 said:
Believe it or not everyone has cheated, yes even you people who say "No I have never ever ever done it," trust me you have.
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Actually, we haven't all cheated. But nice try attempting to justify your own lack of integrity.👎
 
We will be attaching the letter of the provost of the other univeristy to our appeal statement as well as a letter from a lawyer.
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Am I missing something here? Why would the word of a provost of a university you don't attend mean anything to the provost or dean of your university?
 
dasaniwater said:
We have both found a lawyer. I have also set up a meeting with the academic dean of my college. My friend has taken great steps in making this issue resolved. She has contacted the provost of the university near her home and has talked him into contacting the provost of the university we attend to talk abot this issue. We will be attaching the letter of the provost of the other univeristy to our appeal statement as well as a letter from a lawyer. For some reason, the more I talk to people and think, the more I am coming to a conclusion that what constitutes plagairism is different in the real world and at the university. The lawyer will defend us and is saying the plagarizing in this case should not have resulted in failing the class. Although I dont know if the lawyer can make the record clean, I do have faith that he will lessen our penalty. My friend is also talking to the dean of the med school she wants to go to about all this with a lawyer persent. I will be doing the same. The key here is that sure we got it on our record and med schools will know, but if the dean or an admissions advisor of the med school (that we really are competitive at and will have little trouble getting into) hears what happens and how these charges came about in person with a lawyer, than maybe they will be more accepting than to automatically disregard an application.

As for the application, we are not submitting it yet. We will wait til this all goes away. A previous poster on this thread contacted me by private message and explained that he was in a similar situation and that three years later the dean agreed to wipe the records clean. Even if it takes that much time, I will still pursue my original goal. No one can take it away from me. My mistakes, an absurd penalty IMO, or anything else. I've got what it takes to turn this around and although yesterday was a downer for the day and I was scared as hell, today is definitely looking better. With time, we'll figure out how to make this all right.
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If by the bolded comment you mean that there is a higher standard of conduct expected in the university setting, then I agree with you, and I wonder how you could not have been aware of this. In other words, students, professors, etc., have to be even MORE careful in the university than do people out here in the "real world."

Thus your lapse of judgment is even more baffling to me and i am sure others reading this thread...your judgment was very poor in 2 distinct areas: you plagiarized, and you collaborated on an assignment with another person in evident violation of your school's honor code. So even if your lawyer successfully talks them out of the "F" I don't see how you will be completely exonerated of the academic misconduct conviction.

So I think you are completely screwed. I cannot imagine why a provost at another university would get involved in an internal matter of another college...that sounds very strange.
 
i don't think youre completely screwed, keep truckin. while no one obviously condones cheating, i don't think your life should be ruined over this infraction. good luck.
 
Tired Pigeon said:
Actually, we haven't all cheated. But nice try attempting to justify your own lack of integrity.👎
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If you go by the definition of cheating, you have. Intentionally or not. Ever brainstorm with a group of people? Ever work with someone else on something...or hear an idea in passing? Ever like the way something is phrased even if you never used that phrase itself? There is external influence on our cognition....there is actually no surefire way of justifying the fact that your situation is otherwise, and that everything you have ever done/come up with is original. Even the most trivial things have some sort of effect....but I'm glad you decided to somehow relate this to me defending my own lack of integrity, yup.
 
i scanned through the previous posts, but i didn't see if collaboration was allowed to begin with on the assignment?? a lot of classes allow you to work with other students on the assignment, as long as you write clearly at the top of the page that "I worked with Joe Smith." I guess if you didn't state that, it could be technically construed as cheating...

Also, this whole thing was over a homework assignment? This seems very blown out of proportion for me. I've TA'ed many classes before, and to tell you the truth, I've seen my share of cheaters. But honestly, the way that I see it, the POINT of the whole class is for you to learn the material. So to me, homework is simply a way for you to master the material. If you want to squander your chance by cheating on homework assignments, it'll come bite you in the ass later on tests. So I don't even bother with the students who cheat on homework assignments. They don't do well on them anyway, and it just makes my grading easier. Now if it's cheating on tests, then that's different...

I have had many students work together on homework assignments before; I don't care. I think that students learn more by working together. I guess if the policy was 'no collaboration' then it's a little different.

To the OP: i'm really sorry that your professor was so unyielding about this. I have done these type of 'answer questions from a paper' assignments before, and i ALWAYS copy and paste directly from the paper if it answers the question well. Why should I have to reword a perfectly good solution if it addresses the question properly? However, I do always put it in the form, The authors stated that "[direct quotation here]." I hope that things will blow over... :/

edit: oops. i didn't see your last past on collaborating not being authorized...
 
dasaniwater said:
Never did it mention... blah blah blah (I hope you edit this post down and delete it, for your sake)
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Dude, you have a lawyer, I'm surprised he hasn't told you the number one rule of cases like these... STOP POSTING! The internet is a POWERFUL thing, and you've given away far too many specifics already. Edit all of your posts and delete them down to one line. Cover your trail.
 
By the end of today, the provost of the other university will know about the circumstances we're in. If he decides that he himself, would give students a second chance by giving a more lenient punishment such as a letter drop instead of a failing grade, than maybe it will give additional support to our appeal letter.
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LOLOLOLOLOL! You really shouldn't be in med school. You're nowhere near mature enough for it. This is like bringing a neighbor's parent to tell your parent that you shouldn't be grounded for breaking curfew because your neighbor's parent wouldn't care.

You're really hurting your case if you drag a provost from another school into it. And any provost from any other school who gets involved in this is a tool.
 
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