Homeschooling child during COVID in Work & Activities section of AAMCAS?

[tricitareirei]

For the Work and activities section of the application, one category for an entry is teaching experience. During COVID lockdown, I homeschooled my autistic and ADHD son for 1st grade. I was also finishing my undergrad and working. This was a very meaningful and difficult experience for me with a lot of learning involved on my part. I know this is a unique situation and these activities want you to list a supervisor contact and all of that. Am I able to include this as a work activity for teaching? Has anyone been in a similar situation? Is there a way to/should I ask AAMC?

I have other significant experiences I would like to address in the personal essay and the “other impactful experiences” sections so I do not want to go into detail about this experience in those other sections.

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[Dral]

I'd be interested to see what others say, but my opinion is to talk about it somewhere on your application, but don't put it down as an official activity.

People will periodically ask if caring for a loved one throughout an illness or in hospice should count as an activity they can list. I'm of the opinion that it is not. I hate to put it this way, but I view it as a 'no choice' situation. Your situation is more toward that type of experience. It surely is getting out of a comfort zone, but in a way it's not because you are in your home in familiar surroundings caring for/educating someone who is close to you. Part of the experiences med schools want to see is people searching out experiences that ideally take them out of their comfort zone.

I'm not on a med school adcom, but if I saw your experience listed, I wouldn't necessarily think that badly of it, but I would think it an odd thing to list. Now if you talked about it somehow in your essay, I think it would be a cool thing to read about and to ask about at an interview.

Take all that with a grain of salt. Again, I'm not on an adcom, and I'd be interested to see how others weigh in.

 

[gyngyn]

We expect parents to care for their own children.
How they care for other people's children (preferably in a clinical setting) is what we need to see in W and A.

 

[tricitareirei]

I'd be interested to see what others say, but my opinion is to talk about it somewhere on your application, but don't put it down as an official activity.

People will periodically ask if caring for a loved one throughout an illness or in hospice should count as an activity they can list. I'm of the opinion that it is not. I hate to put it this way, but I view it as a 'no choice' situation. Your situation is more toward that type of experience. It surely is getting out of a comfort zone, but in a way it's not because you are in your home in familiar surroundings caring for/educating someone who is close to you. Part of the experiences med schools want to see is people searching out experiences that ideally take them out of their comfort zone.

I'm not on a med school adcom, but if I saw your experience listed, I wouldn't necessarily think that badly of it, but I would think it an odd thing to list. Now if you talked about it somehow in your essay, I think it would be a cool thing to read about and to ask about at an interview.

Take all that with a grain of salt. Again, I'm not on an adcom, and I'd be interested to see how others weigh in.

Thank you for your response. That was also my train of thought and concern, but I have quite a bit to include in other areas and so was wondering if it would be permissible and not frowned upon. But I think I have my answer!

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you for the response. I have another question to follow then. I am a registered behavior technician and I work with my son doing therapy for which I’m paid. In your opinion is this frowned upon to include in paid clinical experience (I also have over 3k hours as a MA so would not be the only paid clinical) because I’m expected to be taking care of my own child?

I can tell you that being paid to provide care for your own child will raise eyebrows at my place.

 

[tricitareirei]

We expect parents to care for their own children.
How they care for other people's children (preferably in a clinical setting) is what we need to see in W and A.

Thank you for the response. I have another question to follow then. I am a registered behavior technician and I work with my son doing therapy for which I’m paid. In your opinion is this frowned upon to include in paid clinical experience (I also have over 3k hours as a MA so would not be the only paid clinical) because I’m expected to be taking care of my own child? I believe this is going beyond what is traditional in that sense though. I unfortunately know of parents who would not go to this length of commitment and training for therapy to improve their children’s outcomes and behaviors and who did not homeschool for their own children during COVID, and certainly not while attending university and working.

I can touch on this in impactful experiences but I am also including my sister’s suicide, financial independence and caretaking for my disabled parents while in high school, my parents’ deaths within 1 year of each other while in college, my son’s cancer treatment while in college, and the impact of COVID on my clinical/research/volunteer opportunities. It’s difficult to convey everything I’ve experienced that has significantly impacted me along this path so that is why I was wondering if I could write about these other experiences in a different section. I was thinking the teaching section was more for outside experiences, so I will leave the homeschooling part out. Thank you for the insight!

 

[tricitareirei]

I can tell you that being paid to provide care for your own child will raise eyebrows at my place.

….ok so I began becoming certified so I can improve my day to day interactions and increase therapy outcomes as my intention. Once I began with the company for the insurance-covered parent training, they told me I would actually be a W2 paid employee, which I did not even realize was a possibility. But this was needed as I needed to be in constant contact with and supervised by a BCBA for his treatment plan so we are all paid employees.

So should I leave this out? Or leave out being paid? Can you please elaborate on your response because you seem to be implying that I’m doing something unethical or wrong or sketchy and that’s pretty odd to me. But I am genuinely interested in how best I can represent my experiences

 

[gyngyn]

So should I leave this out? Or leave out being paid? Can you please elaborate on your response because you seem to be implying that I’m doing something unethical or wrong or sketchy and that’s pretty odd to me. But I am genuinely interested in how best I can represent my experiences

I have no reason to believe that you are anything but honorable.
I am giving the likely response of my committee members when they read these entries in W/A.
Being paid to care for one's own child is rare (even unheard of) in a W/A section of AMCAS.
Doctors, in particular, will find this odd as we are specifically admonished not to provide care for family members.

 

[Goro]

….ok so I began becoming certified so I can improve my day to day interactions and increase therapy outcomes as my intention. Once I began with the company for the insurance-covered parent training, they told me I would actually be a W2 paid employee, which I did not even realize was a possibility. But this was needed as I needed to be in constant contact with and supervised by a BCBA for his treatment plan so we are all paid employees.

So should I leave this out? Or leave out being paid? Can you please elaborate on your response because you seem to be implying that I’m doing something unethical or wrong or sketchy and that’s pretty odd to me. But I am genuinely interested in how best I can represent my experiences

It's more important to mention what have you done for others, especially those who are less fortunate than you.

Discussing homeschooling your child will make great fodder for the challenges or how you demonstrated resilience essays

 

[tricitareirei]

Wow
I guess it’s difficult to empathize for a parent who has an autistic child. I didn’t expect I would be characterized as one to be admonished for providing proper parenting and training to my son who does not learn like other children do. I am not prescribing medication or making diagnoses, I’m doing what I can to improve my son’s behaviors and interactions. I sincerely hope none of you are ever put in a similar situation as everything in my life has been significantly harder due to this.
I have volunteering but I also have had a difficult time committing so much of my time to helping others when I’ve had to work since 16 to not be homeless and care for my family while also attending school. What about students who don’t have parents to take care of them and don’t have the luxury of all of this free time to help others? I would love to do more but I haven’t been able to. Everyone talks so much about getting a diverse physician body and including low SES candidates but it’s close to impossible to do everything that needs to be done if you don’t have a family with money so you can volunteer all of your time away.
Thank you all, I definitely have my answer regarding this question.

 

[tricitareirei]

I have no reason to believe that you are anything but honorable.
I am giving the likely response of my committee members when they read these entries in W/A.
Being paid to care for one's own child is rare (even unheard of) in a W/A section of AMCAS.
Doctors, in particular, will find this odd as we are specifically admonished not to provide care for family members.

If you’re interested in this subject since I don’t believe you have read into it, I recommend you read studies relating to efficacy and improved parent, family, and child outcomes of parent-led ABA therapy.

It might help your empathy if you come across any applicant (or patient for that matter) who is having a similar situation to mine. I don’t believe you will come across many, especially mothers, due to the immense difficulty of raising a child with this condition and committing so many of your own resources towards it. I personally believe it will make me a better provider who is able to understand what patients and their families are going through.

I hope in addition to raising eyebrows as you stated, it would also raise curious questions and raise awareness to those not in fields relating to autism.

Edited to add: I’m not being paid to “care” for my own child; I am putting in supervised, objective, quantifiable behavioral therapy interventions along with data collection and analysis. We do work. You phrase it as though I’m paid to babysit my own son which is not at all the circumstance

 

[chssoccer7]

What about students who don’t have parents to take care of them and don’t have the luxury of all of this free time to help others?

We take a plethora of gap years and apply in our late 20's/early 30's with better applications than we would've had as traditional undergrads anyways.

 

[Med Ed]

It might help your empathy if you come across any applicant (or patient for that matter) who is having a similar situation to mine. I don’t believe you will come across many, especially mothers, due to the immense difficulty of raising a child with this condition and committing so many of your own resources towards it.

I actually have a former student who was a single mother with multiple children, one of whom is autistic. She became single while in medical school (husband didn't support her in becoming a physician). To my knowledge he was not a deadbeat, and she was able to make it work with his his co-parenting. She graduated and has gone on to a successful career.

To be in admissions is to see a constant flow of applications from people coming from very difficult circumstances. Situations that involve squalor, poverty, drug addiction, domestic violence, etc., are not uncommon.

This leads me to a question that you will face if you decide to go down this path: if raising your child is so time- and resource-intensive that you can't volunteer a couple of hours a week, what is your plan to survive four grueling years of medical school?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I actually have a former student who was a single mother with multiple children, one of whom is autistic. She became single while in medical school (husband didn't support her in becoming a physician). To my knowledge he was not a deadbeat, and she was able to make it work with his his co-parenting. She graduated and has gone on to a successful career.

To be in admissions is to see a constant flow of applications from people coming from very difficult circumstances. Situations that involve squalor, poverty, drug addiction, domestic violence, etc., are not uncommon.

This leads me to a question that you will face if you decide to go down this path: if raising your child is so time- and resource-intensive that you can't volunteer a couple of hours a week, what is your plan to survive four grueling years of medical school?

My thoughts also line up with @meded . Holistic review will consider the context of your life circumstances, but the end goal is to determine if you can succeed through a challenging curriculum and pass the boards... not to make judgments of your worthiness as a human being.

I also believe the concerns on your application are more about what you need to succeed and whether the school has those resources. I would encourage you to check with AMSA chapters to see if they can find a student (or three) who they believe is more similar to you. Who they choose tells you more about the students' understanding of your situation and support they get.

 

[tricitareirei]

I actually have a former student who was a single mother with multiple children, one of whom is autistic. She became single while in medical school (husband didn't support her in becoming a physician). To my knowledge he was not a deadbeat, and she was able to make it work with his his co-parenting. She graduated and has gone on to a successful career.

To be in admissions is to see a constant flow of applications from people coming from very difficult circumstances. Situations that involve squalor, poverty, drug addiction, domestic violence, etc., are not uncommon.

This leads me to a question that you will face if you decide to go down this path: if raising your child is so time- and resource-intensive that you can't volunteer a couple of hours a week, what is your plan to survive four grueling years of medical school?

That’s great for her! That’s also one person - which is what I meant by saying you probably wouldn’t come across many. And is it incorrect to say that she had an immense difficulty getting to her position compared to someone not in her position? Do you think she had to work that much harder just to be seen as comparable to other students? Doesn’t that show exceptional academic ability and perseverance? This is my point. I’m not saying I could never volunteer; I’m saying with my situation it is difficult to accumulate the volume that other applicants have and what adcoms seem to deem necessary. And did she have family to help take care of her kids? Because otherwise it would have been impossible. We plan to hire an au pair once I’m accepted. I am as present as possible for my kids now while I have the ability to be because I feel it is my duty and because I love my family. I also realize becoming a physician is a career and I understand it is not my full life.

Did you see the rest of what I’ve dealt with along my academic career because I included it in a previous comment. My sister committed suicide in my last year of high school in front of my mother and me in her side yard, I was a caretaker for my disabled mother and stepfather since 16, I worked full time since I was 16 and contributed to household expenses, I graduated a year early from high school, I became pregnant with an IUD at 19 after being told by physicians I could not get tubal ligation because I was “too young for such a decision,” my parents died with one year of each other while I was in college and I had to handle that personally as well as being executor in another state, my son got cancer while I was in college and I had to rescind my honors college acceptance due to inability to attend mandatory lectures, then COVID occurred and my son’s school shut down so I homeschooled him while attending school and while working.

That is also not even the complete picture. You all seem to be talking to me in a disdainful way and it’s interesting. I have hundreds of hours of refugee volunteer work; you never asked how many I have; I have a publication and hundreds of hours of research; I have thousands of hours of clinical and nonclinical work hours; I have had a managerial position; I graduated summa cum laude from my university. You seem to be very accusatory without knowing my full story. I have seen many applicants with nowhere near the adversity I’ve dealt with having similar applications and statistics to mine. I’ve worked my ass off quite honestly.

Do you think after years of adversity and me not choosing any other multitude of easier paths to a different career that I didn’t account for how I would handle medical school? Your assumptions and deragatory way of commenting to me are odd and while I hope your intentions are helpful, I personally don’t understand why you engage with me in such a way.

 

[tricitareirei]

My thoughts also line up with @meded . Holistic review will consider the context of your life circumstances, but the end goal is to determine if you can succeed through a challenging curriculum and pass the boards... not to make judgments of your worthiness as a human being.

I also believe the concerns on your application are more about what you need to succeed and whether the school has those resources. I would encourage you to check with AMSA chapters to see if they can find a student (or three) who they believe is more similar to you. Who they choose tells you more about the students' understanding of your situation and support they get.

I believe that my circumstances during my academic career with grades that are on par with other applicants show my ability to succeed at a challenging curriculum, is that not a correct assumption? Because what does someone not in my circumstances with the same grades show? I don’t think I made any allusion as to my worthiness as a human being or judgement thereof? Sorry I just don’t see exactly what you meant by that.

Also what do you mean by if the school has the resources I need to succeed? I am not requesting or expecting any special treatment… I know that some schools have subsidized daycare but that is not absolutely needed. We will have an au pair and my husband works from home on a free schedule and has been in contact with his job and they are extremely supportive of him cutting down hours if need be. My husband is extremely supportive of me and somewhat understands that situation as his mother is a retired pediatrician and was the sole breadwinner while his dad stayed at home. However we will definitely need the help of an au pair.

I believe I understand the difficulty of what lies ahead; that’s why I’m making the most of my time with my kids now and I am in no way a stranger to sleeping less and being gone more than I’d like in order to study or work, etc. in the future it will just be more than I have before and I’m ready for that. I saw my husband do a 3 year PharmD program when we had our first son and he was gone *most* of the time. I do not give up and I know it will be rewarding in the end and show my children the value of hard work and service to others

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I believe that my circumstances during my academic career with grades that are on par with other applicants show my ability to succeed at a challenging curriculum, is that not a correct assumption? Because what does someone not in my circumstances with the same grades show? I don’t think I made any allusion as to my worthiness as a human being or judgement thereof? Sorry I just don’t see exactly what you meant by that.

Also what do you mean by if the school has the resources I need to succeed? I am not requesting or expecting any special treatment… I know that some schools have subsidized daycare but that is not absolutely needed. We will have an au pair and my husband works from home on a free schedule and has been in contact with his job and they are extremely supportive of him cutting down hours if need be. My husband is extremely supportive of me and somewhat understands that situation as his mother is a retired pediatrician and was the sole breadwinner while his dad stayed at home. However we will definitely need the help of an au pair.

I believe I understand the difficulty of what lies ahead; that’s why I’m making the most of my time with my kids now and I am in no way a stranger to sleeping less and being gone more than I’d like in order to study or work, etc. in the future it will just be more than I have before and I’m ready for that. I saw my husband do a 3 year PharmD program when we had our first son and he was gone *most* of the time. I do not give up and I know it will be rewarding in the end and show my children the value of hard work and service to others

I definitely think your circumstances should favor you. Unfortunately applications don't give you enough space to explain it all, and a lot of the nuance with admissions is navigating the "what if's" that come up. As admissions staff, we are used to advocating for applicants (always look on the bright side of life... doo doo...), so I always encourage people to talk to the admissions recruiters. Do they know of students similar to you who have succeeded? The students probably know better anyway. It's not getting you special resources as much as if they have experience empathizing with your situation and helping you when you need it. We know you and your family will make sacrifices, but will you wind up sacrificing more if the school cannot be flexible?

 

[tricitareirei]

I definitely think your circumstances should favor you. Unfortunately applications don't give you enough space to explain it all, and a lot of the nuance with admissions is navigating the "what if's" that come up. As admissions staff, we are used to advocating for applicants (always look on the bright side of life... doo doo...), so I always encourage people to talk to the admissions recruiters. Do they know of students similar to you who have succeeded? The students probably know better anyway. It's not getting you special resources as much as if they have experience empathizing with your situation and helping you when you need it. We know you and your family will make sacrifices, but will you wind up sacrificing more if the school cannot be flexible?

That makes sense! Thank you for the clarification and yes that sounds like great advice.

This is the problem I’m running into is the limited space to explain what my advisor referred to as an autobiography level of challenges. That is the whole reason I made this post - it was because of how many things I needed to talk about in the essay areas and wondering if I could include another significant challenge in a different section of the application so I could also give that an explanation/my personal learning experiences and impact or if it would be inappropriate to do so, which of course I agree with others that it would be inappropriate.

I guess I’ve just been kind of thrown off by the degree of critical judgement or almost condescension? it seems I’ve received here without anyone knowing the rest of my application or even just asking questions to gain more understanding. But it has been illuminating seeing outside perspectives and I do thank you and others for your time