Honest Answers needed from current Carib Students...

[helpfuldoc2b]

What age did you enter your carib school? What school did you go to? Why did you pick your specific school? What salary/job did you leave behind? Do you regret not waiting out or applying to DO schools? How do you like your school/studies thusfar? Would you do it all over again? How much debt did you go in with? How much debt will you have after graduation? DO or anyone you know suffer from any type of chronic illness like depression or anxiety while attending school?

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[ditch doctor]

30; AUC; friend went there; Paramedic ~40K; not at all; graduated and liked it ok; yes; ~300K but I have wife and kids; 300K; bunch went through the blues, one or two serious depression.

 

[njc123]

30; AUC; friend went there; Paramedic ~40K; not at all; graduated and liked it ok; yes; ~300K but I have wife and kids; 300K; bunch went through the blues, one or two serious depression.

Ditch Doctor -

I am about one year away from applying, and am giving the Caribbean schools some serious consideration.

I too have a wife and two kids ages 4 and 6 right now. Did your family live with you while you studied at AUC? If so, I'd really like to know how their experience was?

Did you really leave medical school with the same debt that you entered? Was the $300K entirely school loans?

Appreciate anything you can share...thanks

Neil

 

[McGillGrad]

No regrets, loving every minute of it.

I have never cared about debt b/c of the eventual salary. But I will be tickling 300k.

 

[bookite]

What age did you enter your carib school? What school did you go to? Why did you pick your specific school? What salary/job did you leave behind? Do you regret not waiting out or applying to DO schools? How do you like your school/studies thusfar? Would you do it all over again? How much debt did you go in with? How much debt will you have after graduation? DO or anyone you know suffer from any type of chronic illness like depression or anxiety while attending school?

Age - 31 ----> AUC
Occupation - Chiropractor
AUC - was family friendly and at the time had a kids school on campus
I think it would have been easier to do the DO route but not regrets yet.
School was great. No big problems. I took my family with me to the Islands and to the UK for my third year and have enjoyed it all. (kids came back with a bit of an accent).
I'm just under 200K (had savings to off set expenses)
No chronic illness but I'm getting older so maybe soon.
Plenty of people have depression or anxiety at school but I think the school has people who help.

School is what you make of it. It's on an island and you don't have the same luxuries that you do in the USA. But with a positive attitude and realizing you can't fix everything only get through it, you will come out on top.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

keep the answers coming, very insightful...

 

[oldpro]

What age did you enter your carib school? What school did you go to? Why did you pick your specific school? What salary/job did you leave behind? Do you regret not waiting out or applying to DO schools? How do you like your school/studies thusfar? Would you do it all over again? How much debt did you go in with? How much debt will you have after graduation? DO or anyone you know suffer from any type of chronic illness like depression or anxiety while attending school?

OK........

41 when started
Picked school Loan at the time and I was accepted (Did not take MCAT)
DO not have answer about US due to no MCAT
No regrets Worries sure but I love what I'm doing (In clinicals now)
Debt under 200k

 

[IniquityBliss]

27
Ross
I met a Ross grad, applied on a whim, hit pause on AMCAS, got in, showed up
I was a student - no salary
I do regret not waiting - but only a little, I'm happy so far.
Med school is hard, which makes it hard to 'like', but I know I'm doing what I love.
I would do it again (but then again, I just started). I would have come sooner.
Debt by the time it's over...? I don't know ~15 years of payments
Ross seems to add a new student organization every day (it's bordering on too much) so you're bound to find someone to bond with to keep you from being depressed. You can post all day about life on the island but nothing compares to living it. I'm sure someone here is depressed and I'm sure that on Feb 19th there will be quite a few depressed people (Mini 1 is on the 18th).

 

[berkeleyboy]

What age did you enter your carib school? What school did you go to? Why did you pick your specific school? What salary/job did you leave behind? Do you regret not waiting out or applying to DO schools? How do you like your school/studies thusfar? Would you do it all over again? How much debt did you go in with? How much debt will you have after graduation? DO or anyone you know suffer from any type of chronic illness like depression or anxiety while attending school?

23 YO
SGU
WENT TO SGU B/C I KNEW A GRAD FROM THERE doing his residency in California. He told me the education was outstanding.
No regrets about waiting or applying to MD/DO schools stateside.
I would do it over and over and over again...yeah right, once is enough, but I think the path I took was def. worth it.
I went in with 20K debt....now its 275K after graduation
no problems while attending school.

 

[sr12]

OK........

41 when started
Picked school Loan at the time and I was accepted (Did not take MCAT)
DO not have answer about US due to no MCAT
No regrets Worries sure but I love what I'm doing (In clinicals now)
Debt under 200k

Hi, just wondering which school(s) you were accepted to where you didn't have to take the MCAT?

Thanks

 

[RussianJoo]

why would you even consider going to a school that doesn't require an mcat score? No reputable med school will accept you without an mcat. Just take the mcat you don't need to do super well on it. if you're afraid of them mcat wait till you have to take the steps they're about a million times harder, and scarier.

 

[Vermian]

28

AUC (graduated 2002)

I went there because everyone I met from there while researching schools said they would go there again

Chemist - $28K/yr

Applied to allopathic schools 5 years in a row and watched people with lower MCATs, GPAs, and no volunteer experience get accepted in front of me - I should have gone sooner.

No debt going in $160K (with accumulated interest) currently.

Good friend of mine stated he was depressed because he never thought what we were doing would really let him reach his goal - he is an Infectious Disease staff now. The anxiety the rest of us felt was more due to the "life in a fishbowl" phenomenon. You swim around and around not knowing what is really on the outside trusting the other fish with you to tell you - and they don't know either.

 

[oldpro]

why would you even consider going to a school that doesn't require an mcat score? No reputable med school will accept you without an mcat. Just take the mcat you don't need to do super well on it. if you're afraid of them mcat wait till you have to take the steps they're about a million times harder, and scarier.

Here we go Ignorance Knows no boundaries!

Do you have to take an MCAT to go to Irish medical Schools? NO
DO you have to take an MCAT to go to Australian Medical schools NO
Do you have to take an MCAT to go to French medical schools NO
Do you have to take an MCAT to go to Most Medical Schools around the world?

NO!


I hate the posters who are so closed minded. MCAT is a Test for US schools,
an Admissions test and it is not like the USMLE please talk of what you know,

At times AUC and ROSS have been known to accept people without MCATS


I decided to go to SJSM out of the many I could including SABA and MUA 2 other good schools that accept those without an MCAT

So before you judge me and others based on a test that means nothing as to my ability to practice medicine, Understand there are thousands of schools who do not require this test used to weed out students in the USA (Yes it is a weed out test only to keep people out of medicine) .

No reputable med school will accept you without an mcat

I take exception on this.....reputable in the Caribbean is
Charter
IMED
WHO
Grads Licensed ( this means that these states have found the grad from the school ( school) to have had education that met the standards for a Licensed Physician)
This is the test that the school works and is legit

Icing on cake is California approval so grads can practice in all 50 states this does make the school a little better (hence the Big 4 that have this)

MCAT is no where in the standards that make a "Good Medical School" outside the USA this is just a silly premed thing. I named a few countries above, these medical schools in the Caribbean are not US schools but Medical schools in foreign countries, you are a FMG no matter if the school requires the MCAT or not and most people that care if you are a FMG will not care about this only that you are a FMG/IMG

You see logically you want to feel superior but in reality you are in the same category as all of US FMG/IMG

 

[RussianJoo]

ok i am sorry, i should have said none of the top 4 carib schools will take you without an mcat score.. and if you want a somewhat competetive residency in the US it will help greatly if you went to one of the top 4 schools and not some carib school that's just out to make some money, and will take anyone willing to pay. I don't want to feel superior, i know i am superior, and so do the PDs of many residency programs because they invite SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba students to interview in their programs but they hardly invite anyother carib medical school students to interview. The only residency people will be lucky to get coming out of one of those schools is internal med at some crappy community hospital, if not worse. Those are the facts. have you looked at SGU's, Ross's, AUC's, SABA's match lists? have you compaired them with your schools match list? people look for short cuts later to find out that they can't pass step1, or that it takes them two or three times.

maybe if didn't bang your head against the wall so hard you'd have some brains left to not apply to med school with such low standards of admission.

also only caribbean schools train docs for the purpose of practicing in the US or canada all other foreign schools train mds to practice in their own country, they don't want mds to go to other countries their country needs mds also. and you're correct MCATs are only for US med schools but since most of us want to go back to practice in the US it would make sense to go to a school that was the most similar to US med schools in education. most countries don't practice medicine like the US so going to a country that teaches students how to practice medicine like that country is a disadvantage when you're trying to compete for US residency spots.

 

[superoxide]

i know i am superior, and so do the PDs of many residency programs because they invite SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba students to interview in their programs but they hardly invite anyother carib medical school students to interview. The only residency people will be lucky to get coming out of one of those schools is internal med at some crappy community hospital, if not worse. Those are the facts. have you looked at SGU's, Ross's, AUC's, SABA's match lists? have you compaired them with your schools match list?

Saba does not require you to take the MCAT. I go to MUA. Go to their website and look at the match lists. The 2008 match list is up as well. You will see that there are some pretty impressive matches and not just "internal med at some crappy community hospital, if not worse".

 

[RussianJoo]

Saba does not require you to take the MCAT. I go to MUA. Go to their website and look at the match lists. The 2008 match list is up as well. You will see that there are some pretty impressive matches and not just "internal med at some crappy community hospital, if not worse".

one: ER, Anesthesia, neurosurgery match out of the whole class is very impressive. Those people were probably the top 3 students in their class. So where does that leave the other 97% of students. And not everyone can be #1 in their class, most will not be, and thus, they will be stuck with some primary care spot, so pretty much you have to want to go into primary care to apply to schools that don't require mcats. And where are your Rad-Onc, Ortho, Opthalm, Urology, Rads matches? Also that list has about 50 people on it how big are your classes? I bet about 50% don't even match anywhere. Can you even practice in all 50 states coming out of your school? What's going to happen if your wife or husband gets an amazing job offer in California what are you going to say no we're staying here because i can't practice in Ca, how ridiculous does that sound.. Or how great is it when 10 years after graduating you decide to move to a state and realize you can't get licensed because they require you to do all your rotations at green booked places or at hospitals that are only affiliated with your school and you did one or two of your rotations at places that weren't green booked or at non-affiliated hospitals, simply because your school doesn't have a that rotation at a hospital that's green booked. That's really going to suck when you are only limited to getting licensed in a few states, and you'll say but i am a New Yorker I will never want to live anywhere else, but can you honestly know that you won't have some need to move to a different state?


it's hard enough getting a residency as an IMG/FMG why automatically cut yourself short because you were too lazy to take the mcat, it's not like those carib schools require such high mcat scores. But limiting your full potential right from the start is stupid in my book.

 

[superoxide]

one: ER, Rads, Anesthesia, match out of the whole class is very impressive. Those people were probably the top 3 students in their class. So where does that leave the other 97% of students. And not everyone can be #1 in their class, most will not be and thus, they will be stuck with some primary care spot, so pretty much you have to want to go into primary care to apply to schools that don't require mcats. And where are your Rad-Onc, Ortho, Opthalm, Urology, neurosurgery matches? Can you even practice in all 50 states coming out of your school? What's going to happen if your wife or husband gets an amazing job offer in California what are you going to say no we're staying here because i can't practice in Ca, how ridiculous does that sound.. Or how great is it when 10 years after graduating you decide to move to a state and realize you can't get licensed because they require you to do all your rotations at green booked places or at hospitals that are only affiliated with your school and you did one or two of your rotations at places that weren't green booked or at non-affiliated hospitals. That's really going to suck when you are only limited to getting licensed in a few states, and you'll say but i am a New Yorker I will never want to live anywhere else, but can you honestly know that you won't have some need to move to a different state?


it's hard enough getting a residency as an IMG/FMG why automatically cut yourself short because you were too lazy to take the mcat, it's not like those carib schools require such high mcat scores. But limiting your full potential right from the start is stupid in my book.

I agree with you 100% that "the big four" are better than the rest of the Caribbean schools, but you seem to believe that anyone who chooses to go to a school outside of the big four (for whatever reason) is lazy or a complete idiot. That obviously isn't true.

I did all my core rotations at "green book" hospitals and I know dozens of others who have as well. I can also do all my electives at my school's affiliated hospitals (Yes, we do have them) or do them somewhere else. It hasn't been a problem at all. In fact, I rotated with a lot of Ross students who were having trouble with their clinicals because Ross was losing a lot of spots (especially in New York) and they had to wait for months to get a spot. They showed up on orientation day and were told there are no more spots available and they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off. So even the "big four" have some problems. Less problems than the others? Definitely, but it's not the dooms day scenario you make it out to be for the rest of us.

Every time I read your posts, I feel like you're SHOUTING. Relax.

 

[RussianJoo]

I agree with you 100% that "the big four" are better than the rest of the Caribbean schools, but you seem to believe that anyone who chooses to go to a school outside of the big four (for whatever reason) is lazy or a complete idiot. That obviously isn't true.

I did all my core rotations at "green book" hospitals and I know dozens of others who have as well. I can also do all my electives at my school's affiliated hospitals (Yes, we do have them) or do them somewhere else. It hasn't been a problem at all. In fact, I rotated with a lot of Ross students who were having trouble with their clinicals because Ross was losing a lot of spots (especially in New York) and they had to wait for months to get a spot. They showed up on orientation day and were told there are no more spots available and they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off. So even the "big four" have some problems. Less problems than the others? Definitely, but it's not the dooms day scenario you make it out to be for the rest of us.

Every time I read your posts, I feel like you're SHOUTING. Relax.

lol, I am sorry if i seem like i am shouting.. i am actually pretty relaxed. I am not trying to encourage people to go to the big 4 or whatever. I could careless if people even go to med school at all, more residency spots for me. The Ross problem is well known that's why I would personally go to a lot of other schools before going to Ross.

But still people read the match list and see that one person who matched into ER or whatever and they automatically assume that they can do it to without realizing that that person was probably in the top 5% of his/her class. The only reason people don't feel like taking the mcat if feel, is they're either afraid of the exam or just don't want to bother with it, ie lazy. If you're afraid of taking the mcat wait till you have to take step1 or 2 they're a lot scarier, if you're too lazy and don't feel like prepping for it then once again why go to med school if you're going to be lazy.

Yes to some people it doesn't matter where they go to med school really because they will get A's and top Step scores and will get a good residency, because it's hard for pd's to not look at an applicant that has 240+ step scores and a 4.0 GPA no matter what med school they went to. But those people are few and far between, most think they'll study hard and do well but then they get to med school and something happens and they end up not studying or not doing as well as they thought they would.

People should know what they're getting into. We're trying to become US docs, and are for the most part all US citizens, well US MDs take the MCAT why would you not want to? and I feel those who are asking what are some schools that don't accept mcats are looking for short cuts and short cuts will get them no where in this field. For every great success store there are about a dozen failures that are not talked about so everyone assumes that hey this isn't so bad, i'll go to the caribbean i don't have take the mcat or study extra hard in undergrad or pay for mcat prep courses. but then it comes time to match and they realize that it's not as easy as that person sdn made it sound.. And they're a few hunderd thousand in debt, and 4 years older and are struggling to find a program that will take them.

 

[Vermian]

I believe some of the points you have raised in the multitude of text above are good. It does take a lot of hard work coming from the Caribbean to match into competitive residencies. I am doing neurosurgery, but I was not in the top 5% of my class. I just did the extra work required to get me where I am today.

I would disagree with something you pointed out about where were some of the other competitive residency slots from a specific school. I would have to say that (from my experience) most of the people who attend school in the Caribbean are not shooting for the neurosurgery, ophthalmology, rad-onc, urology, etc. slots. There will be those of us who are, but that will not include the majority. Sure, I had a classmates who went into IM-ER, ophthalmology, and various surgeries. However, most of them wanted to be pediatrics, family medicine, and internal medicine (a few went on to competitive fellowships).

All of this depends on the person, the experience they bring to medical school (wherever that may be), and the experience they take out of medical school. Less than 1/3 of the people who "know" what they want to do going into medical school actually come out with the same goal. Others of us are just hard headed. I would also hope these same people did not take 4 years and an accumulation of debt to realize whether or not they were actually going to be able to make it into the field of their choice. If so, they would have made better choices to become more competitive.

I decided on neurosurgery late, but I would encourage anyone (US or Caribbean or wherever) to try. There are ways in if you are willing to work for them and not give up on your dream. However, you really have to look deep in yourself to see if this dream is a realistic one or not, and whether or not you are willing to make the sacrifices. I think by just headed out of the US after whatever amount of disappointment shows that there is a bit of internal drive.

We should try to encourage that, and I agree that the encouragement should be realistic.

Good luck.

 

[superoxide]

I totally agree with what Vermian posted. Even at my school most of the students didn't intend on going into Ortho, rads, derm or any of the super competitive residencies. Most wanted FM, IM, Peds. A few wanted Surgery, OB/Gyn and ER. If you know you want to go into one of these specialties, one shouldn't be too concerned about which school to go to. I personally wanted to go into peds and still do. Why should I be worried if no one from my school has matched into ortho, rads, or derm or optho? Am I impressed when I see someone from my school match into neurosurg, ER, Anesthesiology? Definitely! The super competitive fields are hard even for good U.S. medical students. Even a good Caribbean school like SGU doesn't have Rad/Derm/Ortho matches in huge numbers. I didn't see ANY derm/optho/urology matches for 2008. Like you mentioned yourself, those who do match into them are the exception rather than the rule and that applies even to the magic "big four" schools. Most SGU grads match into primary care residencies. Take a look at the SGU match list. Now, if your goal is to get into a very competitive specialty like radiology or neurosurgery or optho, then you might have a better chance with the big four schools, but it's also possible to get there from someplace else.

This brings to the cost of attending SGU. (I'm just using SGU as an example since you go there) At SGU you pay almost $20,000/semester and you have 11 semesters. That's over $200,000 in tuition alone. Add in living expenses, books, other expenses, a student easily graduates with $300,000 in debt and MOST SGU students end up in primary care. At my school (MUA), tuition is close to $9000/semester and you do 10 semesters. You do the math. SGU has DOUBLE the tuition. That's $100,000 vs $200,000. Big difference if you ask me and in the end, everyone in primary care ends up earning pretty much the same amount of money. An SGU FM/IM doc doesn't earn more just because he went to SGU. So in the end, most students who choose to go to SGU and then go into FM have got to be a atleast a little bitter about having to spend so much to go to such a good school (which I'm sure it is), but still ending up in the same place with other caribbean graduates who paid HALF of what they paid and still earn the same.

Re: MCAT - I'm sure there are people who decided not to take the MCATs because they are lazy, but please don't make such generalizations. One could tell from day one of semester one who would make it and who wouldn't. Most of these "lazy" students came to the school thinking now that they've been admitted, they're going to get their M.D. They spent most of their time partying, drinking, traveling...you name it. Most of them failed first semester, had to repeat courses. Some of them got kicked out after repeated failures and transfered to other (inferior) schools. Some of them dropped out of med school all together. So yes, there were lazy students when I was there, but they didn't make it nor should they. There are many students who didn't take the MCAT and did very in school and on the USMLE and have been successful in the match. I don't see how not taking the MCAT automatically makes you lazy. In the end, like I already mentioned, you end up in the same place. When you are in residency or an attending no one cares whether you took the MCAT or not. The fact that you made it through med school and residency, for the most part, makes you a qualified doctor. Just my opinion.

 

[RussianJoo]

I agree that in the end you end up in the same place, and if you wanted to go into primary care, as long as a school has all green book rotations, not only cores but electives as well, and you can practice in all 50 states then picking the cheapest school is probably best and reputation won't matter. If you're going to get A's in med school it doesn't matter if you went to SGU or MUA you'll still end up getting A's because you work hard, not because your school is number one.. For me I want to be an anesthesiologist, and from the match lists it looks like if i went to some other school I would have to be in the top of my class to match into anesthesia, while if i go to SGU I can be in the middle of my class and feel confident enough that i'll match into anesthesia. I know that I will not be at the top of my class no matter where I went to med school, but being in the middle of the class at SGU looks better than being in the middle of the class at some other school.

 

[oldpro]

ok i am sorry, i should have said none of the top 4 carib schools will take you without an mcat score.. and if you want a somewhat competetive residency in the US it will help greatly if you went to one of the top 4 schools and not some carib school that's just out to make some money, and will take anyone willing to pay. I don't want to feel superior, i know i am superior, and so do the PDs of many residency programs because they invite SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba students to interview in their programs but they hardly invite anyother carib medical school students to interview. The only residency people will be lucky to get coming out of one of those schools is internal med at some crappy community hospital, if not worse. Those are the facts. have you looked at SGU's, Ross's, AUC's, SABA's match lists? have you compaired them with your schools match list? people look for short cuts later to find out that they can't pass step1, or that it takes them two or three times.

maybe if didn't bang your head against the wall so hard you'd have some brains left to not apply to med school with such low standards of admission.

also only caribbean schools train docs for the purpose of practicing in the US or canada all other foreign schools train mds to practice in their own country, they don't want mds to go to other countries their country needs mds also. and you're correct MCATs are only for US med schools but since most of us want to go back to practice in the US it would make sense to go to a school that was the most similar to US med schools in education. most countries don't practice medicine like the US so going to a country that teaches students how to practice medicine like that country is a disadvantage when you're trying to compete for US residency spots.

I'm not as Arrogant as you,

I'm 44 years old with 20 years as an RN and a long history, I have my reasons for not wanting to repeat college and take the MCAT ( which only purpose is to gain admission to medical school which I did 3 times without it in the Caribbean as posted)

I have a residency spot already

People from my school have matched in Anesthesia, Radiology, SUrgery, Family practice and internal medicine to name a few residencies

You still do not make much sense? People who attend medical schools in the other countries do not take the MCAT either and yet get competitive residencies. You assume that the other foreign schools do not "Train" doctors to come back to the US, yet there are hundreds to thousands who go offshore from the USA just to do that. Facts win out that US students do go to other countries then the Caribbean ones to go to medical school. Just look at the Forums here and Value MD.

The MCAT does not come up with the residency interview

ALso you are very wrong to think that SGU has a reputation in the medical world as does US medical schools, there are still plenty of PD's to this day who have never heard or heard little about SGU, to some PD's Caribbean medical school is a Caribbean medical school. You are kidding yourself if you think they think there is a big difference, they wonder if you are so good and smart then why did you not go to a US medical school? Putting me down for going to a different Caribbean medical school is just childish and immature.

Sorry you may insult me but I'm still right since I have the facts straight.

 

[oldpro]

I totally agree with what Vermian posted. Even at my school most of the students didn't intend on going into Ortho, rads, derm or any of the super competitive residencies. Most wanted FM, IM, Peds. A few wanted Surgery, OB/Gyn and ER. ...................



Re: MCAT - I'm sure there are people who decided not to take the MCATs because they are lazy, but please don't make such generalizations. .......

Yes for me I want FP and have prematched into it already

I was a 40 year old RN who wanted to "Go to medical school" because I wanted to order the treatments for my patients. SO I did

I Graduated from College in 1989, the Caribbean counted my degree US would not I would have to redo 90 credits for US schools since my work was "Too Old" Yet I was a Practicing professional

There were Pharm D's and NP's and PA's at school with me. All professionals who did not want to take the MCAT and do all the extra College just to gain admission. We did not take "Shortcuts" we more then paid our dues over and over for many years. These people made up a good portion of the class.

It is very insulting for someone to really not know our reasons and assume we are Lazy! I work hard and do well and succeed.