Honest Pay First Few Years

Started by wizziefiend
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wizziefiend

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Im predent...about to put deposits down on schools.

Ive done the math on the loans and I am extremely nervous about choosing my school due to the potential loan needed.

What is the honest pay for first few years out? Assume associate, not starting GP all by myself yet. Im not trying to be that guy "which specialty will make me the most?" Im just wanting to know if it is even feasible to attend this school with 100% fin aid.

I dont wanna hear "I knew one guy who got $200k working for his dad in a cosmetics practice". Honest, average pay. Ive tried looking for ads in national dental magazines but they dont have pay on it and the few I emailed wouldnt tell me.
 
Im predent...about to put deposits down on schools.

Ive done the math on the loans and I am extremely nervous about choosing my school due to the potential loan needed.

What is the honest pay for first few years out? Assume associate, not starting GP all by myself yet. Im not trying to be that guy "which specialty will make me the most?" Im just wanting to know if it is even feasible to attend this school with 100% fin aid.

I dont wanna hear "I knew one guy who got $200k working for his dad in a cosmetics practice". Honest, average pay. Ive tried looking for ads in national dental magazines but they dont have pay on it and the few I emailed wouldnt tell me.

Typically it is going to be between $90,000 and $120,000. You will find some higher and you will find some lower, but that is an average range.
 
Typically it is going to be between $90,000 and $120,000. You will find some higher and you will find some lower, but that is an average range.

These figures sound about right, on average, for a new dentist working full time.

*Remember, when you figure out future debt load from dental school. It's not only the costs the schools list but also the accrued interest on the unbsubsidized loans and annual price increases. If all the annual costs add up to $300,000, there could be an additional $50,000+ of unsubsidized interest and price increases by graduation. Use that figure to get a more reliable idea of the monthly payment. Good luck and congratulations 🙂 :luck:
 
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*Remember, when you figure out future debt load from dental school. It's not only the costs the schools list but also the accrued interest on the unbsubsidized loans and annual price increases. If all the annual costs add up to $300,000, there could be an additional $50,000+ of unsubsidized interest and price increases by graduation. Use that figure to get a more reliable idea of the monthly payment. Good luck and congratulations 🙂 :luck:

That is a very good point. Anyone know historical tuition increases? 10% a good guess??

Also...I'm assuming those loans keep brewing interest while in specialty programs. That must REALLY hurt.

So when one graduates from dschool, specialty, whatever...do they have a bunch of "small" loans or can you consolidate into 1 gigantic one. Does consolidation allow for lower interest rates? Any restrictions on this type of stuff?

These figures sound about right, on average, for a new dentist working full time.

Anyone have suggestions for aquiring the higher paid employee positions? Is it dependant upon your school, networking while in school? Any suggestions for things to do while in dental school to make yourself worthy of $120k or so? Also...maybe the higher paid are in areas of higher cost of living so end of the day you still have the same amount left to pay loans compared to the lesser paid positions. Any thoughts??

I think in my first few years I wouldn't care where I was working...as long as I was getting some good learning experience and making a reasonable dent in my debt. Then after a few years hopefully I can settle in some small town and still be able to pay the loans.
 
in line w/ my other post (in the newly minted dentist thread), friends working in major city areas i.e. chicago, nyc, etc are making less, yet have a higher cost of living, i'd say salary b/w 80-115. while those in areas like toledo, rochester, are making 150 base (range 150-200), while living in low cost of living areas (wizzie it's actually reverse of what you were thinking in that respect). another thing, after working a couple months, if you're ready for a commitment (3-5 yrs) you'll get a significantly better salary offer, vs being on a 4 week notice type contract.
 
in line w/ my other post (in the newly minted dentist thread), friends working in major city areas i.e. chicago, nyc, etc are making less, yet have a higher cost of living, i'd say salary b/w 80-115. while those in areas like toledo, rochester, are making 150 base (range 150-200), while living in low cost of living areas (wizzie it's actually reverse of what you were thinking in that respect). another thing, after working a couple months, if you're ready for a commitment (3-5 yrs) you'll get a significantly better salary offer, vs being on a 4 week notice type contract.

So would you say the city pay is lower due to saturation? Seems like the obvious answer. But I would think if a dentist is hiring an associate it implies they have more patients than they can personally handle... I guess my logic is flawed though...I assumed small town might now have enough people to support a few dentists all the time. Maybe it would come in waves or something.

awesome though, thanks. That builds my confidence just slightly though.....still worried about lots of money!!! I think I will just choose the school where I will personally do my best and I think it will all come together. Too bad this school is so pricey!
 
+/-100,000 sounds about right. Major cities can be a negative or positive factor depending on you. Same for any business. More risk more profit. If you stand out in the crowd, big cities are definitely where the big bucks are. If you are so so, then you should stay away from major cities. It's all my opinion though.
 
That is a very good point. Anyone know historical tuition increases? 10% a good guess??

Also...I'm assuming those loans keep brewing interest while in specialty programs. That must REALLY hurt.

So when one graduates from dschool, specialty, whatever...do they have a bunch of "small" loans or can you consolidate into 1 gigantic one. Does consolidation allow for lower interest rates? Any restrictions on this type of stuff?



Anyone have suggestions for aquiring the higher paid employee positions? Is it dependant upon your school, networking while in school? Any suggestions for things to do while in dental school to make yourself worthy of $120k or so? Also...maybe the higher paid are in areas of higher cost of living so end of the day you still have the same amount left to pay loans compared to the lesser paid positions. Any thoughts??

I think in my first few years I wouldn't care where I was working...as long as I was getting some good learning experience and making a reasonable dent in my debt. Then after a few years hopefully I can settle in some small town and still be able to pay the loans.




Unsubsidized loans brew interest from the moment they are dispersed.

I had interest rates of 15% on my private, unsubsidized loans. The capitilization of interest and interest they accrued in just two years was scary!

To my knowledge you can consolidate all federal loans. I don't think you can consolidate private and goverment loans together, but this is a good question. You should post this question in the financial aid section. We could all learn something. I did not consolidate, so it is not something I have experience with.

Regarding annual price increases, there was a very disturbing article in a recent NYT (New York Times) about how arbitrary some of these private schools raise their tuitions. Some 15%, in just one year! The schools seem to have carte blanche when it comes to raising fees. It would be best to call the schools you are considering and find out what price increases they have levied over the past few years especially. Historically, the past ten-twenty years, will not be as telling as the past couple. Things have been running a muck in more recent years.

At the private university where my older son attends, increases have been in the 4-7% range the duration of his attendance. Public schools have increased at a slighly faster clip. Very best wishes, Lesley
 
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Regarding annual price increases, there was a very disturbing article in a recent NYT (New York Times) about how arbitrary some of these private schools raise their tuitions. Some 15%, in just one year! The schools seem to have carte blanche when it comes to raising fees. It would be best to call the schools you are considering and find out what price increases they have levied over the past few years especially. Historically, the past ten-twenty years, will not be as telling as the past couple. Things have been running a muck in more recent years.

At the private university where my older son attends, increases have been in the 4-7% range the duration of his attendance. Public schools have increased at a slighly faster clip. Very best wishes, Lesley

Here's a tidbit that'll shake you up: For the past several years, UConn has been raising its tuition by 15% 😱 :barf: :wow: 😡 +pissed+ each year and plans on continuing this trend! Ouch! I got out right in the nick of time before too many raises had acrued.
 
Here's a tidbit that'll shake you up: For the past several years, UConn has been raising its tuition by 15% 😱 :barf: :wow: 😡 +pissed+ each year and plans on continuing this trend! Ouch! I got out right in the nick of time before too many raises had acrued.

Wow!
 
Unsubsidized loans brew interest from the moment they are dispersed.

I had interest rates of 15% on my private, unsubsidized loans. The capitilization of interest and interest they accrued in just two years was scary!

To my knowledge you can consolidate all federal loans. I don't think you can consolidate private and goverment loans together, but this is a good question. You should post this question in the financial aid section. We could all learn something. I did not consolidate, so it is not something I have experience with.

Regarding annual price increases, there was a very disturbing article in a recent NYT (New York Times) about how arbitrary some of these private schools raise their tuitions. Some 15%, in just one year! The schools seem to have carte blanche when it comes to raising fees. It would be best to call the schools you are considering and find out what price increases they have levied over the past few years especially. Historically, the past ten-twenty years, will not be as telling as the past couple. Things have been running a muck in more recent years.

At the private university where my older son attends, increases have been in the 4-7% range the duration of his attendance. Public schools have increased at a slighly faster clip. Very best wishes, Lesley

When is financial aid "awarded"? (by the way....I hate it when the use award...as if it is something to be proud of). Say if tuition were due in Aug and Jan every year, is it awarded each semester or all at once at the beginning? I am asking in regards to interest...say total cost will be $300k, does the interest begin on all of it up front or every semester or every year does the amount interest is computed upon get increased?

I've got to make myself an excel sheet now! I'll share it when it gets done...
 
When is financial aid "awarded"? (by the way....I hate it when the use award...as if it is something to be proud of). Say if tuition were due in Aug and Jan every year, is it awarded each semester or all at once at the beginning? I am asking in regards to interest...say total cost will be $300k, does the interest begin on all of it up front or every semester or every year does the amount interest is computed upon get increased?

I've got to make myself an excel sheet now! I'll share it when it gets done...


My ignorance about anything financial abounded when I was young, and I'm talking about at age 26! The day I recieved a note on how much was due on one of my dental school loans, I almost fell to the floor! I've been picking myself up ever since. So, I think it's great you're thinking ahead.

Your loans will be disbursed, as needed, at the beginning of each semester or term. It is then that the interest starts to accrue, but don't forget that you won't recieve all the money you borrow because of origination fees. These fees usually vary between 1-3% and are deducted from your loan prior to disbursement.

I'm not a financial ace, but this is how I get approximate figures:

If you borrow $60,000 a year, unsubsidized, at an average interest rate of 7.5%, assuming you borrow $30,000 at 6.8% and $30,000 at 8.5%, each year, and this is not entirely accurate because I am really not accounting for capitalized interest, usually every three months, or the fact that half will be disbursed in August and half in January. But, on $60,000, approximately $4,500 in interest will accrue each year for four years. For the second year, the next $60,000 borrowed will gain $4,500 in interest each year for three years, and so forth. So, if I take $4,500 X (4+3+2+1) 10, this may be low balling it a bit, but $45,000 in interest would be a rough estimate. Then you have to consider annual tuition and fee increases...

Good luck, Lesley
 
My ignorance about anything financial abounded when I was young, and I'm talking about at age 26! The day I recieved a note on how much was due on one of my dental school loans, I almost fell to the floor! I've been picking myself up ever since. So, I think it's great you're thinking ahead.

Your loans will be disbursed, as needed, at the beginning of each semester or term. It is then that the interest starts to accrue, but don't forget that you won't recieve all the money you borrow because of origination fees. These fees usually vary between 1-3% and are deducted from your loan prior to disbursement.

I'm not a financial ace, but this is how I get approximate figures:

If you borrow $60,000 a year, unsubsidized, at an average interest rate of 7.5%, assuming you borrow $30,000 at 6.8% and $30,000 at 8.5%, each year, and this is not entirely accurate because I am really not accounting for capitalized interest, usually every three months, or the fact that half will be disbursed in August and half in January. But, on $60,000, approximately $4,500 in interest will accrue each year for four years. For the second year, the next $60,000 borrowed will gain $4,500 in interest each year for three years, and so forth. So, if I take $4,500 X (4+3+2+1) 10, this may be low balling it a bit, but $45,000 in interest would be a rough estimate. Then you have to consider annual tuition and fee increases...

Good luck, Lesley

So taking a break from the cell bio to crunch some numbers. This is CRAZY!!

That whole capitalization thing is HORRIBLE!!! Screw dentistry, I should go be a banker!

So I did this basic calculation...
Let's say school costs $30k per half year (term) of schooling (8 "terms" for most dschools)

Normal Payment on that single term of $30k over 30 yrs: $225/month
Now, take into account the deferred interest from term 1 until graduation: $315/month
What does this mean? Term 1's cost at graduation is actually $41,500 due to interest adding up that no one is paying...

I did this for all 8 terms...and the actual cost of 8 terms @ $30k on graduation day is:
$290k (even though $30k * terms = $240k) Lesley's "guess" was pretty close!!!

Makes me want to attend my state's private school and stay with ma and pa!!

It gets worse if you want to specialize (or attend a more expensive school). Lets say someone is crazy and goes for the most and wants to do OMFS w/ 6 yr route with med school costing $15k per year (for 2 years). What is their debt assuming the previous dental school debts and capitalized interest? (assuming their residency pay does not provide adequate funds for loan repayment just only to live...not sure if this is true):

$550,000. costing $4500/month for 30 yrs....and i left out tuition inflation cuz i don't have time to build it into my excel formula. True cost: $1.5mil

Good news: If your parents have little assets, you can get maximum fed deferred loans...but those won't cover most costs of today's rediculously priced schools. But it will provide serious savings!

Not trying to scare or complain, but we gotta get this under control!! High costs of education are only going to lead to even higher costs for patients.

Any comments?? I'm gonna throw together a more comprehensive excel sheet to take into account federal loan programs, up front bank fees, inflation of tuition, and a few other goodies. I'll throw it up on a website and let you goof around with it. Hopefully I can get some comments from you current dental students, we predents need to have an honest idea of what are life is REALLY gonna be like for the first 10-15 yrs out of school financially.
 
Does the FASFA have to include parent income. I haven't lived with them for 10 years and I have a wife and two kids. I think my parents income shouldn't matter.
 
Does the FASFA have to include parent income. I haven't lived with them for 10 years and I have a wife and two kids. I think my parents income shouldn't matter.

I would seriously doubt it and I, personally, would not include it. Your parent's income is not relevant to your circumstance. At at this point in time, you are completely independent of your parents. If you have already been accepted to a dental school and know which one you are attending, you could contact the financial aid office. However, regardless of what they say, they could be wrong, I would leave that information out, unless I was specifically asked to include it at a later date. That's just my opinion. Good luck.
 
Any comments?? I'm gonna throw together a more comprehensive excel sheet to take into account federal loan programs, up front bank fees, inflation of tuition, and a few other goodies. I'll throw it up on a website and let you goof around with it. Hopefully I can get some comments from you current dental students, we predents need to have an honest idea of what are life is REALLY gonna be like for the first 10-15 yrs out of school financially.


Just some thoughts, since you want to be thorough.

Most dental schools that operate on the 4 year/8 semester schedule do charge extra for summer sessions. If you want to make a comprehensive excel sheet you may want also take this into consideration. Most schools list summer sessions in their cost of attendance.

I don't know if it is possible, but try to include lost income from the 8+ years while attending college, D-school, and beyond. Granted without a college or professional degree it may not be much, but it is possible for a high school graduates to earn $25,000+ with an increasing salary over the years and benefits, including retirement contributions. For example some occupations, dental receptionists, high school, dental assistants, high school and x-ray certification, hygienists, a two year associate degree, can earn a lot more than the average high school graduate/community college graduate. This is not to say dental receptionists, assistants and hygienists don't have further degrees, but I am only alluding to the required education needed for the basic job description.

Have fun with your calculations! Keep us informed of your results. Thanks.
 
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Does the FASFA have to include parent income. I haven't lived with them for 10 years and I have a wife and two kids. I think my parents income shouldn't matter.

You don't have to include it if you don't want to, but if they are "poor" you can qualify for loans with lower interest rates and/or defered interest. So, in one sense your parents income doesn't matter. You will qualify for the $38,000 or so that everyone qualifies for. BUT if you need more money than that then if you have your parents info, they may be able to help you get better additional loans.
 
Not trying to scare or complain, but we gotta get this under control!! High costs of education are only going to lead to even higher costs for patients.

I agree. Its ironic that just about every school in this country continually talks about trying to attract students from underprivileged backgrounds and about their efforts to increase penetration of dental services into underserved communities, while at the same time charging so much for tuition (and their hiking it as fast as they can) that they effectively price us out of the underserved market. That looks a lot like hypocrisy to me.
 
You don't have to include it if you don't want to, but if they are "poor" you can qualify for loans with lower interest rates and/or defered interest. So, in one sense your parents income doesn't matter. You will qualify for the $38,000 or so that everyone qualifies for. BUT if you need more money than that then if you have your parents info, they may be able to help you get better additional loans.

Is 38K from the gov per year or for 4 years?
 
I agree. Its ironic that just about every school in this country continually talks about trying to attract students from underprivileged backgrounds and about their efforts to increase penetration of dental services into underserved communities, while at the same time charging so much for tuition (and their hiking it as fast as they can) that they effectively price us out of the underserved market. That looks a lot like hypocrisy to me.
It looks to me more like the unfortunate reality of higher education, especially professional, economics. If you think dental school administrators are lining their own pockets with the tuition increases, you're nuts. A lot of dental schools are scrambling just to remain financially solvent.
 
It looks to me more like the unfortunate reality of higher education, especially professional, economics. If you think dental school administrators are lining their own pockets with the tuition increases, you're nuts. A lot of dental schools are scrambling just to remain financially solvent.

O i never thought the admins and academics at dental schools were getting rich...although I bet some of them really do deserve higher pay. But somewhere and somehow, costs can be saved or money better spent.

For dental students...are your clinics run at highest efficiency? I've heard you only get to see maybe 2 patients a day. That doesn't seem like alot of billing. Would it be feasible to increase the production of clinics to help with financing schools without offsetting the clinic learning?
 
O i never thought the admins and academics at dental schools were getting rich...although I bet some of them really do deserve higher pay. But somewhere and somehow, costs can be saved or money better spent.

For dental students...are your clinics run at highest efficiency? I've heard you only get to see maybe 2 patients a day. That doesn't seem like alot of billing. Would it be feasible to increase the production of clinics to help with financing schools without offsetting the clinic learning?

The clinics are run at an absolutely horrible efficiency. The reason is usually not the schools though, it is the students. You need to teach people how to do the procedures and that takes time. I would rather see 2 patients a day and get good then see 20 patients a day and never learn how to do anything right.
 
Its sounds like you guys are saying there is no accountability in academia. That's outrageous.
 
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Its sounds like you guys are saying there is no accountability in academia. That's outrageous.


Golfed yesterday, did quite good actually. Practice even helps on the golf course! After golfing we sat down to lunch with a retired physician, Tufts alumni. I thought I would share some insight with you.

He is very active with his alma mata and was recently in Boston touring the medical and dental school. He states Tufts is very aware of the stress and problems students face regarding their staggering debt. He, like me, has many concerns. He is in his 70's. I was already aware their dental school is concerned, as they discuss it on their web site. Tufts like many private institutions has a very nice size endowment; however, at the moment, it doesn't seem to be having any effect in reigning in the cost of higher education, at least from the student's perspective.

It is very obvious from the dental school related articles I can retrive from as early as the 1990's, cost has been a big concern of dental school administrations for sometime. However, the schools that closed did so because they became unprofitable. Many of you will find when you start a dental practice, just how expensive the profession of dentistry is to run.

However, for all the talk and concern, nothing is getting done. Tufts continues to raise it's tuition and fees. Case which in the past had fixed tuition for all 4 years for an entering student, recently changed it's policy. Please correct me, if I am mistaken. Tuition and fees continue to go up as a faster clip than inflation. Should inflation really hit someday, the interest rates on private loans that students also depend on will go up too. Not a pretty thing. Been there, done that.

It's a mess. A solution, when in practice, raise dental fees. Then how will many be able to afford dentisitry? Our profession is already well aware of the reduced number of dentists graduating. Access to care could become a real issue over the next couple of decades.That problem can be rectifed, on the patient's behalf, should the federal government decide to pursue managed care. But, what happens to dentist's incomes and, more importantly, the students left holding the financial bag of school debt? The thought has me worried.

I know for a fact that dental schools are relying more and more on part time dentists as instructors. They barely get enough to cross the bridge and pay for parking. The part timers are by no means doing it to get rich. Other than small pay for the day, and, for some, the parking fee, there are no perks.

By the time I got to this board, my debt was long gone, before age 40, and I won't go into it anymore than to say, it was work to get out from under that debt. I am sincerely concerned about the length of time students will be paying back their school loans and that it may be a hardship for some.

However, talking about it doesn't match action. As I said, I think it's discouraging when you hear schools that use to fix their tuiton for entering students for four years are moving in the opposite direction and that tuition and fees continue to rise faster than the pace of inflation.

I can do no more than tell you the facts whether they make anyone feel good/bad/or uncomfortable. I'm presenting the financial aspect so you can better see what lies ahead and be prepared. For any of you that are as naive as I was, I know it is appreciated. For young dentists, there may be things you can relate to. For those who are arrogrant, my posts are not for you.

Even should you have that monkey of school debt on you back, it is not all bad, there is a lot opportunity in dentistry, as I have discussed before.😉

Got to hit the golf course, hoping for an equally good day today.

Have a good weekend and Best wishes, Lesley
 
just giving a different perspective on things here...

my dental school costs about 2200 $ per year. plus around 18 000 $ total for instruments

if you can't come up with that money, the government will give you interest free loans to cover. you don't have to repay until you graduate.

its fair, if you are poor but that you work hard, you can become a dentist...

and my school is not located in some third world country
it's actually an hour drive north of NY state...

I just think american dental schools are not getting enough support from the federal govt and states while if you want my opinion the army navy and airforce are getting pretty much everything they want... well... it's all about choices...

its seems that dental students are seen as an elastic source of funding for dental schools since they can borrow unlimited amounts...

but now I think this is insane because then when you graduate, you have so much pressure to repay all your loans that patient care will suffer in some cases... would't you, as patient, prefer a dentist that is not worried by a 200 000$ loan ?
 
Does the FASFA have to include parent income. I haven't lived with them for 10 years and I have a wife and two kids. I think my parents income shouldn't matter.

You only have to report parent income if you're trying to receive certain loans, like the Health Professions loan (I think that's the name of it). I'm in the exact same situation as you family wise, and my dad has a high income, so I don't qualify for certain lower interest rate loans. Makes no sense to me; no family contribution is no family contribution, regardless of how much money your parents make.
 
just giving a different perspective on things here...

my dental school costs about 2200 $ per year. plus around 18 000 $ total for instruments

if you can't come up with that money, the government will give you interest free loans to cover. you don't have to repay until you graduate.

its fair, if you are poor but that you work hard, you can become a dentist...

and my school is not located in some third world country
it's actually an hour drive north of NY state...

I just think american dental schools are not getting enough support from the federal govt and states while if you want my opinion the army navy and airforce are getting pretty much everything they want... well... it's all about choices...

its seems that dental students are seen as an elastic source of funding for dental schools since they can borrow unlimited amounts...

but now I think this is insane because then when you graduate, you have so much pressure to repay all your loans that patient care will suffer in some cases... would't you, as patient, prefer a dentist that is not worried by a 200 000$ loan ?


Did you mean 2K a yr, or 20K.
 
You only have to report parent income if you're trying to receive certain loans, like the Health Professions loan (I think that's the name of it). I'm in the exact same situation as you family wise, and my dad has a high income, so I don't qualify for certain lower interest rate loans. Makes no sense to me; no family contribution is no family contribution, regardless of how much money your parents make.

That's what I am worried about too. Maybe I should get the loan from him at the lower rate since he is making it such that I can't get it. :idea:
 
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It looks to me more like the unfortunate reality of higher education, especially professional, economics. If you think dental school administrators are lining their own pockets with the tuition increases, you're nuts. A lot of dental schools are scrambling just to remain financially solvent.

I have both seen first hand and also heard from many others that the school runs almost like a Government institution: inefficient, wasteful, and with little thought put into where money goes of where is comes from. I know of one Dept. head that regularly goes on vacation and has the school foot the bill she also regulaly skips work even though she is being paid for it and she also puts personal expenses like a desktop at home on the school tab. Her employes of course basically follow her example and so their are only actually a few people in the entire department that do anything.
 
I have both seen first hand and also heard from many others that the school runs almost like a Government institution: inefficient, wasteful, and with little thought put into where money goes of where is comes from. I know of one Dept. head that regularly goes on vacation and has the school foot the bill she also regulaly skips work even though she is being paid for it and she also puts personal expenses like a desktop at home on the school tab. Her employes of course basically follow her example and so their are only actually a few people in the entire department that do anything.
At risk of pointing out the obvious, most dental schools are government institutions. 🙂

Nobody will dispute that abuses of power occur in dental school. All I'm saying is that the one-to-one relationship you're talking about doesn't exist, and that even under the best of circumstances, clinical dental education is an inefficient & expensive process.
 
Continue to live like a student when you are done and get those loans paid off within 5 to 6 years, then you can live like a doctor.
I will probably be 200k in debt when school is over, but my wife knows that our cars will have to last until the loans are paid off (even though other students just took out the max loans to buy that new SUV or year old BMW and a nice 50inch plasma with the thought that what is another 35K on
200+K).
The pay out of school will probably be in 90-120K range, so dont go buying that boat and sand rail during 4th year.
 
Continue to live like a student when you are done and get those loans paid off within 5 to 6 years, then you can live like a doctor.
I will probably be 200k in debt when school is over, but my wife knows that our cars will have to last until the loans are paid off (even though other students just took out the max loans to buy that new SUV or year old BMW and a nice 50inch plasma with the thought that what is another 35K on
200+K).
The pay out of school will probably be in 90-120K range, so dont go buying that boat and sand rail during 4th year.

Even if it takes you 10 years to pay off your school loan, while it's longer than 5-6 years, it's not too much longer. While in the military, my federal loans were deferred, with no interest ticking, all subsdized, so it made sense for us to let all my subsidized loans sit. There was not much difference between having my loans paid off at 36 or 39. My husband's were done at 36. During those first couple of years after D-school, aside from starting to pay down the school debt, we established IRA's, only $2,000/per year/per person was allowed at the time, not much but something, saved for a down payment on a home and purchased a practice. Purchasing a home as early as possible is a nice hedge against inflation. A ten year pay off on $200,000 at 6.8% could be as much as $2,500/yr for ten years, over 5 years it's $4,000/month.

So, when you graduate and go out into practice, as anxious as you are to get your student loan paid off, look at your other needs too. But you are correct, if you have a significant amount of debt, $200,000 today sounds mid-range, to pay it off, you have to live carefully. 👍 I don't regret not living it up after D-school at all. Getting rid of the debt has made me far happier.🙂 I sleep very well, if only my dogs could!

Good luck in school! Happy Holidays!
 
At risk of pointing out the obvious, most dental schools are government institutions. 🙂

Nobody will dispute that abuses of power occur in dental school. All I'm saying is that the one-to-one relationship you're talking about doesn't exist, and that even under the best of circumstances, clinical dental education is an inefficient & expensive process.

Your right, if you want to get technical its more like a two to one relationship. For every mispent dollar we have to pay twice; the money we coughed up the first time plus what we have to pay to get it done right the second time.
 
The clinics are run at an absolutely horrible efficiency. The reason is usually not the schools though, it is the students. You need to teach people how to do the procedures and that takes time. I would rather see 2 patients a day and get good then see 20 patients a day and never learn how to do anything right.

What about in the 4th year. I'd think you'd be pretty good at doing prophy, fillings, basic extractions, etc. I've just been told that lots of dental schools have waiting lists for patients. Would it be possible to rotate 4th years through the clinics for the sole purpose of bringing in extra money? I wouldn't even try and hide it from the students, just come out and say "We want you to do more production on basic things because we want to keep tuition and fees low."

I don't even know if any of this is possible...I've seen clinics in action for a grand total of about 15 minutes as an observer!