Honest question, why do you guys keep training CRNAs?

[Man o War]

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Hypocrite crnas. Lobby against pass through money for physicians then whine that docs won’t take rural jobs. Hypocrite crnas.

And then they whine about lack of access to care (their whole VA independence argurment was based on that)while simultaneously spending loads of cash fighting AA entrance into states.
You can’t tell any difference between the 2 in the OR, I’ve supervised both.
But yes let’s demonize doctors for being concerned about salary when that’s the ONLY reason they oppose AAs.

 

[deleted171991]

To an extent you are correct. There are a good amount of anesthesiologists where their only motivation is money. But wouldn’t you say it’s a contribution to the problem when facilities say, “well, we can’t afford and MD so we’ll just take a nurse and all the risks that may come with it” It’s basically saying MD care isn’t worth the money. I bet anything those full time surgeons and GI docs are paid WELL compare to their urban counterparts but for some reason people always want to get cheap when it comes to anesthesiologists

When the bean counters look at most physicians, they see income, which they try to maximize by kissing up to the respective providers.

When they look at most anesthesiologists (and other "service" specialties), they see costs, which they try to minimize by cutting salaries etc.

 

[Twiggidy]

At this point this is another thread.

 

[chocomorsel]

there are not enough BC anesthesiologists in our country to take care of every anesthetic needed. That isn't even up for debate. If you wanted to argue that we could suck up all of them from other countries if we offered enough money, well I kinda doubt we could meet the demand that way.

Whatever you need to keep telling yourself in order to rationalize your decision to make money off them.

Yeah, for some reason there are plenty of docs in the West Coast but no where else in America.

Stop trying to convince us of BS. People aren’t waiting three months out in the west coast for there hip replacements because there is a shortage of anesthesiologists.

What’s that quote about the difficulty in convincing a man of something when his salary depends on him not understanding it?
Listen OP. It’s all about, and always will be about the bottom line.

Yes, some people are stuck in certain geographical regions where they have no choice but to work with CRNAs. But it all began with and continues to be about MONEY!!!

 

[jwk]

Basically the same situation for me. But I’m adamant...no blocks, spinals, epidurals, central lines. They ask, but I say nope.
And I don’t bother discussing the plan with them, just the crna if it’s necessary.
But I’m not mean to ‘em or anything, they’re people too.

We're about 10:1, AA student to SRNA. Just like with the AA students, the nurse anesthesia students are never ever left alone in a room, and they get no regional, block, or central line experience. Ours is strictly an anesthesiologist-led ACT practice - none of this collaborative crap. The only thing we cut them any slack on is the SRNAs are supposed to be with CRNAs. They claim they don't get "credit" for being with an AA.

We also only have students from a couple programs that we have a long history with, and the few CRNAs we typically hire each year are usually from these programs. They know going in that we're a strict ACT practice, and there will be no independence. There's also no nurse anesthesiologist or calling someone Dr. Nurse. Like a number of groups in our area, we do not take SRNAs from the local university DNP program.

 

[TXEMC344]

You all have proved my point. Since my OP, no one has said anything about patient safety as it applies to Anesthesiologist vs CRNA's. It is ALL about money to ya"ll.

 

[TXEMC344]

And that's fine. It's actually eye opening. You want to make your money, but not in BFE, and if someone does then they aren't qualified.

 

[chocomorsel]

That's my point. There are a lot of hospitals across this nation in BFE. And you proved my point. You do not care about BFE and it's all about your salary. Not patients.

F... off. Plenty of us wouldn’t mind working in rural America. But I for one have called a few rural hospitals only to be told “sorry, we only use CRNAs.”

And don’t act like you are clueless to rural pass thru money which only incentivizes CRNAs and not physicians.

Take your sorry ass back to nurses.com if you are gonna come to a physician forum to generalize and try to call us all greedy.

Tell me again why your ilk is against AAs practicing in most states under a phsysciam?
Oh yeah, because apparently according to your colleague Dr. Nurses, AAs are all incompetent in comparison to DNPs. It’s got nothing to do with them giving you healthy competition.

Don’t try to talk to us about money when y’all in the country are raking it in and preventing physicians from working there in addition to preventing AAs from working period. It’s all in the name of money. Greedy fake lying AANA supporters.

Buzz off.

 

[deleted50478]

And that's fine. It's actually eye opening. You want to make your money, but not in BFE, and if someone does then they aren't qualified.

You are willfully ignorant. The evidence against your belief is readily available but you chose to repeat the nursing propaganda.

 

[TXEMC344]

Not necessarily true. Most on here don’t really care what happens in BFE. They care about the hospital where they work realizing there are CRNAs and begin undercutting salaries.

 

[Twiggidy]

Whatever you need to keep telling yourself in order to rationalize your decision to make money off them.

Yeah, for some reason there are plenty of docs in the West Coast but no where else in America.

Stop trying to convince us of BS. People aren’t waiting three months out in the west coast for there hip replacements because there is a shortage of anesthesiologists.

What’s that quote about the difficulty in convincing a man of something when his salary depends on him not understanding it?
Listen OP. It’s all about, and always will be about the bottom line.

Yes, some people are stuck in certain geographical regions where they have no choice but to work with CRNAs. But it all began with and continues to be about MONEY!!!

Are you saying that if tomorrow CRNAs were outlawed there would be enough board certified anesthesiologists to cover the OR and off site anesthesia needs of this country? C’mon now.

 

[deleted171991]

:troll:

 

[Twiggidy]

So if you’re all about “patient safety” then I’ll ask, why don’t you encourage your hospital to pay anesthesiologists? Sounds like you’re willing to put your patients at risk to save a buck

 

[deleted171991]

So if you’re all about “patient safety” then I’ll ask, why don’t you encourage your hospital to pay anesthesiologists? Sounds like you’re willing to put your patients at risk to save a buck

Not to save a buck. To have a job. 😉

It's (mostly) the hospitals and big corporations who save bucks .

 

[deleted50478]

You clearly have an agenda here, so I will repeat my question: what is your occupation? My guess is that you are a midlevel.

Is this for me or txemc344? 😵

My occupation attending anesthesiologist.

My agenda is to point out the hypocrisy of CRNA’s actively lobbying to prevent equal funding for rural anesthesiologists while at the same time arguing that md’s avoid rural practices and CRNA’s have to come to the rescue out of the goodness of their hearts and out of concern for rural patients, since we all know that rural CRNA’s are paid so much less than urban CRNA’s in safer ACT practices.

 

[Mman]

Whatever you need to keep telling yourself in order to rationalize your decision to make money off them.

Yeah, for some reason there are plenty of docs in the West Coast but no where else in America.

Stop trying to convince us of BS. People aren’t waiting three months out in the west coast for there hip replacements because there is a shortage of anesthesiologists.

What’s that quote about the difficulty in convincing a man of something when his salary depends on him not understanding it?
Listen OP. It’s all about, and always will be about the bottom line.

Yes, some people are stuck in certain geographical regions where they have no choice but to work with CRNAs. But it all began with and continues to be about MONEY!!!

I assumed someone that graduated medical school would be able to do math. Your average ACT practice would need to hire an additional 2x the number of physicians they currently employ if they transitioned to physician only care. Is there like an extra 25000 or 50000 unemployed anesthesiologists out there looking for work I don't know about?

If you want to argue that over a 20 year period we could transition to physician only anesthesia care by drastically ramping up residency graduates, you might have a point. Until then, it's simple math.

 

[Mman]

And that's fine. It's actually eye opening. You want to make your money, but not in BFE, and if someone does then they aren't qualified.

hospitals using rural pass through money get to hire CRNAs for free. The money literally passes through from the federal government to the CRNA. So yes, anesthesiologists require working for more than free. I assume you don't work for free either.

 

[deleted171991]

Is this for me or txemc344? 😵

My occupation attending anesthesiologist.

My agenda is to point out the hypocrisy of CRNA’s actively lobbying to prevent equal funding for rural anesthesiologists while at the same time arguing that md’s avoid rural practices and CRNA’s have to come to the rescue out of the goodness of their hearts and out of concern for rural patients, since we all know that rural CRNA’s are paid so much less than urban CRNA’s in safer ACT practices.

Ooops! Sorry. 😳

It wasn't for you.

 

[pgg]

You all have proved my point. Since my OP, no one has said anything about patient safety as it applies to Anesthesiologist vs CRNA's. It is ALL about money to ya"ll.

I don't know who you are or what you are, but in searching through your old posts elsewhere (mostly the EM forum), it appears you've been working in healthcare for a while. I can't tell if you're a doctor or not.

If you're a doctor, then you're smart enough to follow the provided links on pass-through legislation and understand why rural hospitals have a powerful incentive to hire nurses instead of doctors.

If you're not, then you probably have a vested interest in not understanding, or pretending to not understand.



I am going to close this thread. Every so often, someone breezes through the forum innocently "just asking questions" about how/where/why we do or don't work with CRNAs and it always goes the same direction. I honestly don't know if anyone's trolling or not trolling here, but if anyone wants to innocently ask questions or make ridiculous declarations, allnurses dot whatever is --------> way.