honest second thoughts - MD vs PA???

[matt1989]

Hi, I would be very interested in your input.

Two years ago I decided to go pre-med as a rising sophomore in college. I tried my best and aced my biology classes though struggled with chemistry and physics, ultimately earning a cGPA of 3.45 and scGPA of 3.21. Graduating from college I knew getting into medical school would not be easy but I felt motivated.

Now after four months of scribing at an ER, I have started to seriously consider becoming a PA. However my reasons don’t seem to line up with other people that chose the profession over MD/DO. I am still in my early 20s, I am not eager to start a family anytime soon, the idea of spending 7 more years in school is not a huge turn-off. My reasons are a little different and include:

- I like the security of working under a higher professional who knows more than me and can check my work. Though I like my independence, I do not naturally pursue leadership.
- I am reluctant to work any job that will take over my life. I want time to date, have a social life, and pursue hobbies. I am also close to my immediate family and fear that I won’t be able to see them enough.
-- Though I can’t deny the income of a doctor is appealing, I am not strongly motivated by money. I consider myself a minimalist and can live happily without many luxuries.
-I have no doctors in the family, no close family in health care, nor is anyone is my family particularly affluent. I am concerned that becoming a doctor will alienate me from my family.
- Lastly, I have a history of depression/anxiety. Though I have been able to control it for the last few years, I am afraid the long, sleep-depriving haul of medical school and residency might bring it out and get the best of me.

Despite these doubts, I am starting at MCAT class next week. I plan on going and taking the test regardless though I can’t help to think that medicine is not right for me. I would really like to hear from anyone else on the brink of ending their medical aspirations and considering another field in or out of medicine.

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[SrootsWwings]

Hi, I would be very interested in your input.

Two years ago I decided to go pre-med as a rising sophomore in college. I tried my best and aced my biology classes though struggled with chemistry and physics, ultimately earning a cGPA of 3.45 and scGPA of 3.21. Graduating from college I knew getting into medical school would not be easy but I felt motivated.

Now after four months of scribing at an ER, I have started to seriously consider becoming a PA. However my reasons don’t seem to line up with other people that chose the profession over MD/DO. I am still in my early 20s, I am not eager to start a family anytime soon, the idea of spending 7 more years in school is not a huge turn-off. My reasons are a little different and include:

- I like the security of working under a higher professional who knows more than me and can check my work. Though I like my independence, I do not naturally pursue leadership.
- I am reluctant to work any job that will take over my life. I want time to date, have a social life, and pursue hobbies. I am also close to my immediate family and fear that I won’t be able to see them enough.
-- Though I can’t deny the income of a doctor is appealing, I am not strongly motivated by money. I consider myself a minimalist and can live happily without many luxuries.
-I have no doctors in the family, no close family in health care, nor is anyone is my family particularly affluent. I am concerned that becoming a doctor will alienate me from my family.
- Lastly, I have a history of depression/anxiety. Though I have been able to control it for the last few years, I am afraid the long, sleep-depriving haul of medical school and residency might bring it out and get the best of me.

Despite these doubts, I am starting at MCAT class next week. I plan on going and taking the test regardless though I can’t help to think that medicine is not right for me. I would really like to hear from anyone else on the brink of ending their medical aspirations and considering another field in or out of medicine.

Herm... The way that read sounds generally like you are attracted by positive (i.e., existing/concrete) factors of PA, and are feeling potential (versus concrete) concerns about pursuing MD/DO.

I am far from the most useful perspective here, but it sounds like more experience would lend the best information you can find or that you need for this big decision. Other PAs/MD/DOs' experiences can certainly be useful, but, given that you seem concerned with your personal characteristics' (of which you seem to have a solid grasp) bearing on the decision, other's advice is only going to carry so far.

Regarding depression/anxiety, I am happy that you haven't suffered as much in the recent past, and I by no means intend to express that it is not serious, complicated, or scary - I do believe, though, that fearing it will return to "get the best of you" can only validate and lend to its power over you. But seriously, I'm just an Internet computer chair psychologist, not even an armchair one, trying to be slightly helpful.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I want to do MD/DO. I preface it with that so you know my bias.

I think if you believe that PA is the best route for you, you should go for it. I've seen PAs working at the hospital I volunteer and they have virtually indistinguishable role to physicians in some areas, which are mainly non-urgent/routine type of interactions. Every single PA I met is extremely happy with the choice they made, but that could be because the unhappy ones go ahead and apply to Med School. These PAs seem to have a lot of free time and are debt-free. I think for someone that doesn't want to center their lives around medicine and competitiveness, it's a great route.

That being said I don't know if your reasons are entirely good. I get this sense that you want security over risk rather than just not wanting leadership. I may be wrong, but it came off that way to me. Not all areas of medicine will completely take over your life. There are physicians in occupational medicine or certain other fields where they're able to have a life. If those specialties are attractive to you, that may be a good way to circumvent being overly committed. You are not motivated by money. I think that's good. I think people who are go into finance. You'll just have more money to do things you like, including giving to charity if you want, so that's not an excuse to avoid medicine. You know your family better than anyone, but honestly, if a family abandons you because you have a good career, maybe you should re-evaluate if you want to be close to them in the first place. Many doctors deal with anxiety/depression. Chances are you can to. Don't let it get in the way of your dreams.

 

[deleted6669]

As a senior pa let me say as bluntly as possible: GO TO MED SCHOOL. I wish I did.
most of your reasons sound good up front but after a few years things change.
docs don't actually check your work, they just sign off on it once you are done with a basic oreientation. of course if you make any mistake you are hung out to dry. I have not seen or worked with some of my sponsoring physicians in years. this is fairly common.
you hit a salary and scope of practice glass ceiling quickly. I am fine with the money I make. It is more than many primary care physicians but it is not likely to increase any time soon. I probably work at about 60% of my capacity because I am limited by arbitrary rules which make no sense at some places I work. I can teach an md resident how to do a procedure but can't do it myself unless under personal supervision? there are procedures I did daily as a paramedic that I can't do now(?)what's up with that? the lack of respect from ahole consultants is not something you ever get used to either.
there are still docs out there who refuse to talk to any pa at any time about anything; "Have your attending examine the pt and then have them call me"(click, as they hang up on you....)
being "supervised" by someone 10-15 yrs younger than you who you may have trained and who asks your opinion more than you ask theirs gets old very quickly.
many pa's work long hrs. 50-80 hrs/week is not uncommon. I worked 230 hrs last month, 205 hrs this month and will do the same next month. I request 140 hrs/mo every month... docs in my group max out at 140 hrs/mo and many work a lot less.
pa's work lots of nights/weekends/holidays. docs hire pa's to do the work they don't want to do at the times and places they don't want to do it so they can be home with THEIR families.
also the preparation for pa and md are different. course work is similar but for md it's nice to do some research, etc while for pa the better schools require significant prior medical experience most premeds don't have. if I could do it all over again I would have gone to medschool a few years after starting work as a medic.
it's not too late for you.
don't make the same mistake I did.
Go to medschool.
In order to get a good scope of practice and reasonable respect I have to work solo nights or shifts at a rural er where they appreciate having a skilled provider around. when done with my doctorate I will be looking for a job overseas. I am done with taking crap from american physicians and charge nurses.
I have fairly extensive overseas medical experience and consistently am treated better outside the united states.

 

[Amk90]

As a senior pa let me say as bluntly as possible: GO TO MED SCHOOL. I wish I did.
most of your reasons sound good up front but after a few years things change.
docs don't actually check your work, they just sign off on it once you are done with a basic oreientation. of course if you make any mistake you are hung out to dry. I have not seen or worked with some of my sponsoring physicians in years. this is fairly common.
you hit a salary and scope of practice glass ceiling quickly. I am fine with the money I make. It is more than many primary care physicians but it is not likely to increase any time soon. I probably work at about 60% of my capacity because I am limited by arbitrary rules which make no sense at some places I work. I can teach an md resident how to do a procedure but can't do it myself unless under personal supervision? there are procedures I did daily as a paramedic that I can't do now(?)what's up with that? the lack of respect from ahole consultants is not something you ever get used to either.
there are still docs out there who refuse to talk to any pa at any time about anything; "Have your attending examine the pt and then have them call me"(click, as they hang up on you....)
being "supervised" by someone 10-15 yrs younger than you who you may have trained and who asks your opinion more than you ask theirs gets old very quickly.
many pa's work long hrs. 50-80 hrs/week is not uncommon. I worked 230 hrs last month, 205 hrs this month and will do the same next month. I request 140 hrs/mo every month... docs in my group max out at 140 hrs/mo and many work a lot less.
pa's work lots of nights/weekends/holidays. docs hire pa's to do the work they don't want to do at the times and places they don't want to do it so they can be home with THEIR families.
also the preparation for pa and md are different. course work is similar but for md it's nice to do some research, etc while for pa the better schools require significant prior medical experience most premeds don't have. if I could do it all over again I would have gone to medschool a few years after starting work as a medic.
it's not too late for you.
don't make the same mistake I did.
Go to medschool.
In order to get a good scope of practice and reasonable respect I have to work solo nights or shifts at a rural er where they appreciate having a skilled provider around. when done with my doctorate I will be looking for a job overseas. I am done with taking crap from american physicians and charge nurses.
I have fairly extensive overseas medical experience and consistently am treated better outside the united states.

^ quality post. I dont have the experience to tell you whats better, but I've met a few PA's that feel like the they are capped out on what they do and have nowhere to advance. Just like the above poster said

 

[Abider]

There's just no easy answer. I think your reasons for going PA are sound. There is the occasional poster who went PA or NP to Physician but there the type who should've gone physician to start.

I'm not drawn to control either. But definitely don't like being controlled or managed excessively. All but the physician are subject to random intervals of such. That...is the reason I got off the fence.

 

[Abider]

I just want to add that, for me, my current career aim is the only I would deem worthy of the sacrifice. But my psychological profile is I just like working in healthcare. And would be happy as a nurse if not for extreme hierarchical process of health care.

It's nearly impossible to guess which side of the coin your mind will reside on. On your average day. Miles into the future, water under bridges passed.

 

[primadonna22274]

E speaks truth.
I have been a PA for 12 yr and initially chose it based on many of your arguments. I hit the glass ceiling very early in my career--around year 3 or 4--and the only way I have managed to gain new skills, broaden scope of practice and make more $$ has been to change jobs. Each of these also hit the ceiling within a couple of years. Once I hit 35, I could not stomach the idea of having my supervising physicians be eternally younger and less experienced than me for the remainder of my career.
I am an M2 now and it is rough but I am glad to be doing it. My 24-year-old self didn't know how much I would prize independence and respect as a woman in her late 30s, and you likely don't know how your mind will change over time either.
The depression/anxiety issue will present itself under times of stress, regardless of whether you are in PA school, medical school or residency. It is true that the much longer drawn-out training period for physicians is very stressful, but we learn how to manage stress. IMO if you are fearful of medical training worsening your mental health then you should strongly consider any other career, because the stress doesn't go away.
Good luck!

 

[SrootsWwings]

On your average day. Miles into the future, water under bridges passed.

proximity to
SDN Haiku so close
wondering... why not?

 

[deleted6669]

Once I hit 35, I could not stomach the idea of having my supervising physicians be eternally younger and less experienced than me for the remainder of my career.
!

yup, this sucks. I work with a lot of fp docs right out of residency(because they are cheap labor and the place I work doesn't want to pay for em docs). they are fine with the primary care stuff but the staff knows that if a truly emergent pt arrives I should be the one seeing them because they freeze up when the s hits the fan and are not ready to manage someone in full arrest or circling the drain. they don't think to put in an IO if they can't get an IV. they don't know how to cardiovert, reduce most fxs or dislocations, intubate, etc. They have me overread all their ekg's and xrays, ask me about management, etc all the while making 30 dollars/hr more than me.....I learn primary care stuff from them all the time but when it comes to anything more than urgent care quality pts I am running the show despite being "supervised". it's actually comical sometimes. nurses will pull me out of a room to take over pts that they can't handle....a few yrs ago for a short time I was "supervised" by someone who I taught to do complex lac repair and regional blocks when they were a resident. his first stemi I had to take over from him when everything he knew flew out the window and he forgot all the basics like o2, monitor, asa, etc. he just freaked out and totally lost his cool. he had this wild eyed look on his face when he showed me the ekg(huge tombstone st segments) and actually said "what do I do with this"? shortly after this he resigned to go work in a primary care practice which is where he should have gone in the first place. don't get me wrong, some fp docs are rock stars in the ER...but many are not having spent only 3-6 months there throughout their entire medical training( 1 rotation as a med student and a month/yr for 3 yrs as a resident) vs my 25 years....
at my night and rural jobs at least I don't have to deal with this. I am either working alone or with em docs who know what I can do and let me do it. it would be nice to have this scope of practice when the sun is up and within 100 miles of my home....this is a basic issue with pa scope of practice. to do what you want to do and are capable of doing you have to work nights, inner city, or rural medicine. times and places that many docs don't want to(and therefore don't) deal with.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm not a PA and have never been a PA, so I can't comment from that perspective. But there is quite a bit of "grass is greener" talk going on in this thread. So here is some perspective from someone who has gone through medical school and a good chunk of residency.

The first two years of medical school are relatively simple. You go to class (or not, as the case may be); you study; you take tests. It's a lot like college, only on steroids because you're taking a lot more credit hours per semester. However, you have a significant amount of free time and control over how you spend your time in most cases. You have vacations. You spend weekends, holidays, and evenings at home.

Third year changes things, especially when you're on harder rotations like surgery, OB, and IM. You have much less control over your time. You will work evenings, holidays and weekends, all while paying for the privilege. You still have to study for exams while working 80 hours per week on the harder rotations. Sometimes you get great residents and attendings, learn a lot, and see/do cool things. Sometimes you get scutted out, stress because you are too tired to study, and are ignored by everyone above you in the hierarchy (which is everyone else in the entire hospital). Fourth year starts out rough with sub-internships, then is like a six month vacation before the hell of intern year.

There have been studies published about how the vast majority of interns are clinically depressed. Some of the issues stem from having no control over your time. Besides working nights/weekends/holidays, your sleep/wake cycles are completely screwed up. There is nothing you can do about changing this. Other issues have to do with the nature of the work environment. The amount of respect that doctors get is highly overrated by those who are not doctors. That includes some of your own fellow residents and attendings as well as non-physician colleagues and patients. You do have significantly more control over your work life as an attending, and you do make more money. But you still have to reach that point, and it's a real grind.

I would never try to talk someone who sincerely wanted to be a physician out of going to medical school. It probably wouldn't work anyway. But for someone like you, who is starting out with so many doubts from the getgo, I feel the opposite. If you value time with your family, and you don't care as much about the money, then my advice is to seriously reconsider going to medical school.

 

[deleted6669]

You spend weekends, holidays, and evenings at home.
Third year changes things, especially when you're If you value time with your family, and you don't care as much about the money, then my advice is to seriously reconsider going to medical school.

listen to this poster! go to medschool. I can't remember the last time I had both days in a weekend off. I just came off a stretch of almost 2 solid weeks of night shifts. my position is not atypical. go to medschool!

 

[swamprat]

I have a friend who is a PA who works rlly cush hours about 30 hours a week, makes good money has a couple kids. I think the emedpa is not lying but its also not a hard and fast rule that u hafta work like a dog i just depends where u work

 

[deleted6669]

I have a friend who is a PA who works rlly cush hours about 30 hours a week, makes good money has a couple kids. I think the emedpa is not lying but its also not a hard and fast rule that u hafta work like a dog i just depends where u work

true. I also know many docs who work 20 hrs/week with full time benefits and more money than I make so there is a range for both professions....
it also depends how much your autonomy means to you. I quit a job that paid incredibly well with 12 weeks vacation/yr because I was bored silly. I hated each and every minute at work. I was making more than the fp docs there but my scope of practice was basically fast track. and the docs and charge nurses there were mainly intolerable a holes. if I could live with that I could work 3 days/week and make 150k-175k+/yr.
I can't live with that. I need to work to the level of my training and experience or I might as well be working at mcdonalds.
there are pa's out there who are content to see level 4 and 5 visits all day long and spend their days writing rxs for cold meds.. they are probably very happy. I am not one of those folks. I have zero doubt in my mind that I made the wrong choice and would be much happier as a doc. unfortunately my opportunity cost to go back to medschool now is over 1 million dollars(lost income + cost of school/loans to maintain house, etc)

 

[swamprat]

true. I also know many docs who work 20 hrs/week with full time benefits and more money than I make so there is a range for both professions....
it also depends how much your autonomy means to you. I quit a job that paid incredibly well with 12 weeks vacation/yr because I was bored silly. I hated each and every minute at work. I was making more than the fp docs there but my scope of practice was basically fast track. and the docs and charge nurses there were mainly intolerable a holes. if I could live with that I could work 3 days/week and make 150k-175k+/yr.
I can't live with that. I need to work to the level of my training and experience or I might as well be working at mcdonalds.
there are pa's out there who are content to see level 4 and 5 visits all day long and spend their days writing rxs for cold meds.. they are probably very happy. I am not one of those folks. I have zero doubt in my mind that I made the wrong choice and would be much happier as a doc. unfortunately my opportunity cost to go back to medschool now is over 1 million dollars(lost income + cost of school/loans to maintain house, etc)

What made you choose PA school over medical school in the first place if u dont mind me asking

 

[deleted6669]

What made you choose PA school over medical school in the first place if u dont mind me asking

an inappropriate fear of ochem and poor physician role models.

 

[swamprat]

an inappropriate fear of ochem and poor physician role models.

haha well nowadays ochem is required. i had a friend go to pa school because he studied hard for the mcat bombed it didnt wanna study again and said he didnt care he just wanted to be an er pa doesn't care about the letters or any of that. i tried to convince him otherwise but whatever hes happy in school right now we'll be graduating the same time and he'll be making more money than me off the bat so eh whatever

 

[deleted6669]

there are still lots of programs today that don't require ochem or biochem

 

[Abider]

I'm with Q on this one. Working like a dog as a PA or as a pshysician is some fields means you're a workaholic. Working like a dog in the years Q describes in the course of your training as a doc means somebody owns your @ss. Period. I'm convinced the main reason health care is so ridiculously hierarchical is because physician training is being owned and owned again and again until you stumble across some finish line somewhere. Every step your hundreds of thousands in the hole knowing you piss off the wrong person from the clerk to top dog and your life gets radically more difficult. On a whim.

I've spent 2 weeks ever so incrementally softening the grumpy brow furrowed distaste for medical students in my resident to a passing disregard. A warm blanket for a cold OR here. A run to get her Cheetos there. And so on. All the while as she uses me to do things she doesn't want to do like get things and information from the grumpiest OB clerk on the planet. So I get barked at by this miserable lady just so my resident doesn't have to. Barking at medical students is sport on this unit. And I smile. And just let my future stomach cancer seed itself. That's just how I get through 24 hour OB shifts.

i pay 1 large a week for this. I'm turning 40. I have back pain that would put an unaccustomed person in bed or in a doctors's office and on a cocktail of pain killers amd muscle relaxers. i fight to get at 45 minutes of therapeutic exercise, when I have the guts enough not to study and to take care of my aging fattening self. Did I mention the cafeteria in this ghetto catholic hospital isn't fit for the cockroaches that blanket the place.

24 to 27 months total and you're making 80 g's as a PA. And working a normal 40-45 is considered the expected trade off. Living your life like it's golden, golden. So you have to suck the occasional d!ck professionally. I used to think i couldn't stomach that. Until I tealized I had 2 in my hands and one in my mouth and was paying good money for it.

 

[swamprat]

I'm with Q on this one. Working like a dog as a PA or as a pshysician is some fields means you're a workaholic. Working like a dog in the years Q describes in the course of your training as a doc means somebody owns your @ss. Period. I'm convinced the main reason health care is so ridiculously hierarchical is because physician training is being owned and owned again and again until you stumble across some finish line somewhere. Every step your hundreds of thousands in the hole knowing you piss off the wrong person from the clerk to top dog and your life gets radically more difficult. On a whim.

I've spent 2 weeks ever so incrementally softening the grumpy brow furrowed distaste for medical students in my resident to a passing disregard. A warm blanket for a cold OR here. A run to get her Cheetos there. And so on. All the while as she uses me to do things she doesn't want to do like get things and information from the grumpiest OB clerk on the planet. So I get barked at by this miserable lady just so my resident doesn't have to. Barking at medical students is sport on this unit. And I smile. And just let my future stomach cancer seed itself. That's just how I get through 24 hour OB shifts.

i pay 1 large a week for this. I'm turning 40. I have back pain that would put an unaccustomed person in bed or in a doctors's office and on a cocktail of pain killers amd muscle relaxers. i fight to get at 45 minutes of therapeutic exercise, when I have the guts enough not to study and to take care of my aging fattening self. Did I mention the cafeteria in this ghetto catholic hospital isn't fit for the cockroaches that blanket the place.

24 to 27 months total and you're making 80 g's as a PA. And working a normal 40-45 is considered the expected trade off. Living your life like it's golden, golden. So you have to suck the occasional d!ck professionally. I used to think i couldn't stomach that. Until I tealized I had 2 in my hands and one in my mouth and was paying good money for it.

haha dude ur too funny i actually LOL'd .. sounds horrible.

 

[notbobtrustme]

there are still lots of programs today that don't require ochem or biochem

Every MD or DO school requires at least 1 semester of O-chem.

Not sure about PA.



As for the OP, it comes down to whether or not you can stomach being low on the totem pole. If you don't care and want a solid middle class life, then PA is perfect. If you want to be that guy who ultimately is responsible and don't mind getting your ass beat for 10 years, then go for MD/DO.

 

[Aminex]

I'm with Q on this one. Working like a dog as a PA or as a pshysician is some fields means you're a workaholic. Working like a dog in the years Q describes in the course of your training as a doc means somebody owns your @ss. Period. I'm convinced the main reason health care is so ridiculously hierarchical is because physician training is being owned and owned again and again until you stumble across some finish line somewhere. Every step your hundreds of thousands in the hole knowing you piss off the wrong person from the clerk to top dog and your life gets radically more difficult. On a whim.

I've spent 2 weeks ever so incrementally softening the grumpy brow furrowed distaste for medical students in my resident to a passing disregard. A warm blanket for a cold OR here. A run to get her Cheetos there. And so on. All the while as she uses me to do things she doesn't want to do like get things and information from the grumpiest OB clerk on the planet. So I get barked at by this miserable lady just so my resident doesn't have to. Barking at medical students is sport on this unit. And I smile. And just let my future stomach cancer seed itself. That's just how I get through 24 hour OB shifts.

i pay 1 large a week for this. I'm turning 40. I have back pain that would put an unaccustomed person in bed or in a doctors's office and on a cocktail of pain killers amd muscle relaxers. i fight to get at 45 minutes of therapeutic exercise, when I have the guts enough not to study and to take care of my aging fattening self. Did I mention the cafeteria in this ghetto catholic hospital isn't fit for the cockroaches that blanket the place.

24 to 27 months total and you're making 80 g's as a PA. And working a normal 40-45 is considered the expected trade off. Living your life like it's golden, golden. So you have to suck the occasional d!ck professionally. I used to think i couldn't stomach that. Until I tealized I had 2 in my hands and one in my mouth and was paying good money for it.

This post is incredible. If the internet could convey applause, it would be happening now.

 

[QofQuimica]

listen to this poster! go to medschool. I can't remember the last time I had both days in a weekend off. I just came off a stretch of almost 2 solid weeks of night shifts. my position is not atypical. go to medschool!

To clarify, I am advising the OP *not* to go to medical school. S/he already has enough doubts and second thoughts about it before having even taken the MCAT. Why would someone who isn't starting out totally gung ho about being a physician want to subject themselves to medical training?

Not that you asked my opinion, but FWIW, your job sounds like it would be pretty horrible regardless of whether you were a PA or a physician. Do you have to stay? Because as someone else mentioned up-thread, the PAs here have relatively cush jobs in terms of hours. Even the PA residents have cush hours by resident standards. How else do you explain why I was staying until 8 PM to sign out the critical care PA residents' patients so that they could go home a couple of hours earlier to have dinner with their families? Or why I was in the ICU covering their patients on weekends while they were at home with their families? If that's what a critical care residency is like, sign me up!

For those who are wondering, PAs can do residencies if they want to specialize, but they don't have to do one. If they choose to do a residency, it's for one year, versus three years minimum for physicians.

 

[45408]

Hi, I would be very interested in your input.

Two years ago I decided to go pre-med as a rising sophomore in college. I tried my best and aced my biology classes though struggled with chemistry and physics, ultimately earning a cGPA of 3.45 and scGPA of 3.21. Graduating from college I knew getting into medical school would not be easy but I felt motivated.

Now after four months of scribing at an ER, I have started to seriously consider becoming a PA. However my reasons don’t seem to line up with other people that chose the profession over MD/DO. I am still in my early 20s, I am not eager to start a family anytime soon, the idea of spending 7 more years in school is not a huge turn-off. My reasons are a little different and include:

- I like the security of working under a higher professional who knows more than me and can check my work. Though I like my independence, I do not naturally pursue leadership.
- I am reluctant to work any job that will take over my life. I want time to date, have a social life, and pursue hobbies. I am also close to my immediate family and fear that I won’t be able to see them enough.
-- Though I can’t deny the income of a doctor is appealing, I am not strongly motivated by money. I consider myself a minimalist and can live happily without many luxuries.
-I have no doctors in the family, no close family in health care, nor is anyone is my family particularly affluent. I am concerned that becoming a doctor will alienate me from my family.
- Lastly, I have a history of depression/anxiety. Though I have been able to control it for the last few years, I am afraid the long, sleep-depriving haul of medical school and residency might bring it out and get the best of me.

Despite these doubts, I am starting at MCAT class next week. I plan on going and taking the test regardless though I can’t help to think that medicine is not right for me. I would really like to hear from anyone else on the brink of ending their medical aspirations and considering another field in or out of medicine.

It sounds like PA school is a great option for you. Try shadowing some.

listen to this poster! go to medschool. I can't remember the last time I had both days in a weekend off. I just came off a stretch of almost 2 solid weeks of night shifts. my position is not atypical. go to medschool!

You're misreading Q, I think. She's saying the opposite of what you are.

Your position would be very atypical at my hospital. Every PA I know (and I've rotated with dozens) has more weekends off than they have on, at a minimum. Most of them have most weekends off entirely. Several departments have PA/NPs who work 8-5, business days only. The neurosurgery PAs work very hard, but I've heard that they make a salary that's commensurate with their labor.

true. I also know many docs who work 20 hrs/week with full time benefits and more money than I make so there is a range for both professions....
it also depends how much your autonomy means to you. I quit a job that paid incredibly well with 12 weeks vacation/yr because I was bored silly. I hated each and every minute at work. I was making more than the fp docs there but my scope of practice was basically fast track. and the docs and charge nurses there were mainly intolerable a holes. if I could live with that I could work 3 days/week and make 150k-175k+/yr.
I can't live with that. I need to work to the level of my training and experience or I might as well be working at mcdonalds.
there are pa's out there who are content to see level 4 and 5 visits all day long and spend their days writing rxs for cold meds.. they are probably very happy. I am not one of those folks. I have zero doubt in my mind that I made the wrong choice and would be much happier as a doc. unfortunately my opportunity cost to go back to medschool now is over 1 million dollars(lost income + cost of school/loans to maintain house, etc)

What you're saying validates my comments above. You can certainly have it easy, but you chose the harder road.

 

[QofQuimica]

What you're saying validates my comments above. You can certainly have it easy, but you chose the harder road.

Agree. Like I said, his job sounds horrible, and not only because of the hours. There's a very good reason why EM and FM are separate specialties.

 

[Zenfudge]

This may offer insight, at least for the lifestyle issues.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ulmbuVjY0

 

[Abider]

This may offer insight, at least for the lifestyle issues.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ulmbuVjY0

Great post. That was an interesting interview. I gotta say I can really feel the split like sundance does. I like other components that are now truant and hiding out somewhere from my current life. Finding them again someday is just a hope that I just keep putting off for what I have to deal with right now to make it. Always right now survival. That's not so horrible, I guess. But it's monolithic nature is dulling to the spirit. And blunts a lot of the nerves that keep you feeling alive.

It's only that I got lucky, I think, and finding something that can be stimulating enough to me while allowing some compromise to at least one other thing in a day that makes it all worth it. And I put hands on patients like mf'er.

That's how difficult the decision can be. Replete with necessary uncertainty. And in my case luck despite more information to work with than most.

 

[45408]

This may offer insight, at least for the lifestyle issues.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ulmbuVjY0

Cliff's notes: she got to third year of med school, had a baby, took a year off, realized she wanted to spend more time with family and being a PA would allow that much more than being an MD. She had a bizarre question where she asked MDs "Is there anything you do in your practice that you couldn't do if you were a PA?" and asked PAs "Is there anything in your practice that you can't do bu could do if you were an MD?" The answer to both was no. I take it she didn't talk to any radiologists, pathologists, or surgeons...

She also waffled as to whether or not PA school was easier, but I think she didn't want to just say "Yup" because the interviewer was a PA or PA student...

 

[Abider]

Cliff's notes: she got to third year of med school, had a baby, took a year off, realized she wanted to spend more time with family and being a PA would allow that much more than being an MD. She had a bizarre question where she asked MDs "Is there anything you do in your practice that you couldn't do if you were a PA?" and asked PAs "Is there anything in your practice that you can't do bu could do if you were an MD?" The answer to both was no. I take it she didn't talk to any radiologists, pathologists, or surgeons...

She also waffled as to whether or not PA school was easier, but I think she didn't want to just say "Yup" because the interviewer was a PA or PA student...

Yeah strong point. She hadn't completed a residency. Which is the real strength of our model. But your implication is also interesting--that perhaps eventually we should or will be by eventual necessity, stratifying and paring down physician training to specialty specific needs. As a future psychiatrist I don't how much anatomy I've been pimped on by surgeons that will actually be useful and on and on like that. Whereas the reason the residency ties 4 years is because hardly anything in medical training is preparatory for the field-specific challenges.

 

[sindadel]

If you have doubts, don't do it. The NP's in my clinic are asking for my opinion. They don't really have to take responsibility and if you don't want to do so, don't do it. It's a nice life having a better separation between work and play.

 

[matt1989]

Wow, I was not expecting such a large response. You've all brought up good points, especially emedpa and QofQuimica. I'm not sold on anything yet, but as I said I'm taking the MCAT and starting my class tomorrow actually.

What I found to be the most convincing argument against becoming a PA (per emedpa) was definitely the glass ceiling. I don't doubt that the work of a PA can be just as arduous as the work of a MD/DO (considering it's essentially the same) and I am definitely someone who likes to feel my pain is somehow justified personally. I can see myself as a happy PA in my 20s and 30s, but I'm not so sure past that. In the ER I can think of one PA in his 40s that does seem a little burned out. Not in the overworked sense but in the "WTF am I doing?" sense. Then again I see NPs the same age who seem very sprightly and appear to love their job.

There is one key thing I did not mention though. I am not 100% sure that medicine is something I would want to stick with my whole life. Both of my parents changed their careers late in life, and I can see myself doing the same. I am particularly attracted to PA/MPH programs because if I hated being a PA I could go back to school and get a Phd in public health, do something in academia, teach, travel the world, without enormous debt.

To me, it seems like the PA route is a low-risk entrance into the world of medicine that does not involve spending a huge amount of money on med school and consequently getting into the psychological trap of self-validation (I just spent/now I earn all this $$$, now I have to stick with it).

 

[IslandStyle808]

listen to this poster! go to medschool. I can't remember the last time I had both days in a weekend off. I just came off a stretch of almost 2 solid weeks of night shifts. my position is not atypical. go to medschool!

To clarify, I am advising the OP *not* to go to medical school. S/he already has enough doubts and second thoughts about it before having even taken the MCAT. Why would someone who isn't starting out totally gung ho about being a physician want to subject themselves to medical training?

Not that you asked my opinion, but FWIW, your job sounds like it would be pretty horrible regardless of whether you were a PA or a physician. Do you have to stay? Because as someone else mentioned up-thread, the PAs here have relatively cush jobs in terms of hours. Even the PA residents have cush hours by resident standards. How else do you explain why I was staying until 8 PM to sign out the critical care PA residents' patients so that they could go home a couple of hours earlier to have dinner with their families? Or why I was in the ICU covering their patients on weekends while they were at home with their families? If that's what a critical care residency is like, sign me up!

For those who are wondering, PAs can do residencies if they want to specialize, but they don't have to do one. If they choose to do a residency, it's for one year, versus three years minimum for physicians.

Actually QofQuimica, emedpa is being sarcastic. He is disagreeing with your post on not going to medical school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Wow, I was not expecting such a large response. You've all brought up good points, especially emedpa and QofQuimica. I'm not sold on anything yet, but as I said I'm taking the MCAT and starting my class tomorrow actually.

What I found to be the most convincing argument against becoming a PA (per emedpa) was definitely the glass ceiling. I don't doubt that the work of a PA can be just as arduous as the work of a MD/DO (considering it's essentially the same) and I am definitely someone who likes to feel my pain is somehow justified personally. I can see myself as a happy PA in my 20s and 30s, but I'm not so sure past that. In the ER I can think of one PA in his 40s that does seem a little burned out. Not in the overworked sense but in the "WTF am I doing?" sense. Then again I see NPs the same age who seem very sprightly and appear to love their job.

There is one key thing I did not mention though. I am not 100% sure that medicine is something I would want to stick with my whole life. Both of my parents changed their careers late in life, and I can see myself doing the same. I am particularly attracted to PA/MPH programs because if I hated being a PA I could go back to school and get a Phd in public health, do something in academia, teach, travel the world, without enormous debt.

To me, it seems like the PA route is a low-risk entrance into the world of medicine that does not involve spending a huge amount of money on med school and consequently getting into the psychological trap of self-validation (I just spent/now I earn all this $$$, now I have to stick with it).

Why not go to medical school and get your MPH afterward (or do an MD/MPH degree)? My professor, who is grad chair of the public health department, is an MD/MPH. He still treats patients at his clinic and teaches 1-2 classes a semester. He also travels sometimes as well.

If you hate the MD lifestyle so much, you could just stay in academia afterward only teaching classes. I myself would not want to do a PhD because of the publish or perish mentality that the professors have (IMO).

 

[deleted6669]

I am particularly attracted to PA/MPH programs because if I hated being a PA I could go back to school and get a Phd in public health, do something in academia, teach, travel the world, without enormous debt.

To me, it seems like the PA route is a low-risk entrance into the world of medicine that does not involve spending a huge amount of money on med school and consequently getting into the psychological trap of self-validation (I just spent/now I earn all this $$$, now I have to stick with it).

If you go PA the PA, MPH route is definitely the way to go.
I am about 1/3 of the way through a doctorate in health science/global health as an exit strategy for the future.
regarding finances, consider that many folks who go to PA school end up with 150k+ of debt. certainly not medschool level(unless you go to a state school) but 150K is not something to laugh at.
in all seriousness, if you are committed to a career in medicine I would recommend med school. it will open far more doors in the future than a pa degree.

 

[deleted6669]

The first two years of medical school are relatively simple....
Third year changes things, especially when you're on harder rotations like surgery, OB, and IM. You have much less control over your time. You will work evenings, holidays and weekends, all while paying for the privilege. You still have to study for exams while working 80 hours per week on the harder rotations. Sometimes you get great residents and attendings, learn a lot, and see/do cool things. Sometimes you get scutted out, stress because you are too tired to study, and are ignored by everyone above you in the hierarchy (which is everyone else in the entire hospital). Fourth year starts out rough with sub-internships, then is like a six month vacation before the hell of intern year.

.

FYI ms3 and pa2 are very similar and at some pa schools hosted by a medschool are interchangeable. my pa2 yr (54 weeks actually) I had difficult rotations as you describe above with 100+ hr weeks on surgery, in house call for ob, etc with ms3 and ms4 level responsibilities. I lived at 3 of my rotation sites in residents quarters.
most pa's considering going back to medschool are worried about the basic med. sciences of the ms1 yr as much of this is new material and not the clinicals which are mostly review.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

Wow, I was not expecting such a large response. You've all brought up good points, especially emedpa and QofQuimica. I'm not sold on anything yet, but as I said I'm taking the MCAT and starting my class tomorrow actually.

What I found to be the most convincing argument against becoming a PA (per emedpa) was definitely the glass ceiling. I don't doubt that the work of a PA can be just as arduous as the work of a MD/DO (considering it's essentially the same) and I am definitely someone who likes to feel my pain is somehow justified personally. I can see myself as a happy PA in my 20s and 30s, but I'm not so sure past that. In the ER I can think of one PA in his 40s that does seem a little burned out. Not in the overworked sense but in the "WTF am I doing?" sense. Then again I see NPs the same age who seem very sprightly and appear to love their job.

There is one key thing I did not mention though. I am not 100% sure that medicine is something I would want to stick with my whole life. Both of my parents changed their careers late in life, and I can see myself doing the same. I am particularly attracted to PA/MPH programs because if I hated being a PA I could go back to school and get a Phd in public health, do something in academia, teach, travel the world, without enormous debt.

To me, it seems like the PA route is a low-risk entrance into the world of medicine that does not involve spending a huge amount of money on med school and consequently getting into the psychological trap of self-validation (I just spent/now I earn all this $$$, now I have to stick with it).

Good luck on your MCAT! I am starting studying too. I am in the same vein of thought that you are in too. Going to try to do well on the MCAT first then see if I can get into medical school... if not PA/MPH is going to be the way for me.

Keep us updated!

 

[Dynamo24]

Wow, I was not expecting such a large response. You've all brought up good points, especially emedpa and QofQuimica. I'm not sold on anything yet, but as I said I'm taking the MCAT and starting my class tomorrow actually.

What I found to be the most convincing argument against becoming a PA (per emedpa) was definitely the glass ceiling. I don't doubt that the work of a PA can be just as arduous as the work of a MD/DO (considering it's essentially the same) and I am definitely someone who likes to feel my pain is somehow justified personally. I can see myself as a happy PA in my 20s and 30s, but I'm not so sure past that. In the ER I can think of one PA in his 40s that does seem a little burned out. Not in the overworked sense but in the "WTF am I doing?" sense. Then again I see NPs the same age who seem very sprightly and appear to love their job.

There is one key thing I did not mention though. I am not 100% sure that medicine is something I would want to stick with my whole life. Both of my parents changed their careers late in life, and I can see myself doing the same. I am particularly attracted to PA/MPH programs because if I hated being a PA I could go back to school and get a Phd in public health, do something in academia, teach, travel the world, without enormous debt.

To me, it seems like the PA route is a low-risk entrance into the world of medicine that does not involve spending a huge amount of money on med school and consequently getting into the psychological trap of self-validation (I just spent/now I earn all this $$$, now I have to stick with it).

If you aren't sure, it may not be worth the amount of work, time/debt/sleep sacrifice to go MD. The great thing about medicine, even if you did choose MD, is you can always change. Changing as PA is much easier; no residency. I started out as a pre-PA student and changed my mind within the first year. It was just a choice I made based on wanting to be in one specific field and be an expert in every sense of the word. I don't want to sound like I'm downplaying the importance of PA's, it was just a personal choice of mine.

 

[QofQuimica]

Actually QofQuimica, emedpa is being sarcastic. He is disagreeing with your post on not going to medical school.

I know he's disagreeing with the point of my post, but I disagree with your interpretation. Either he misinterpreted what I wrote, or he left out the "don't" at the beginning of the sentence/was being sarcastic as you suggested. Seeing as his posts are generally polite, it seems much more likely that he misinterpreted my post rather than that he was mocking it.

Everyone's opinions here are bound to be biased based on their own experiences. This forum is full of people who want to go to medical school, and therefore it is not surprising that a majority of the replies are hard core pro-medical school. But based on my experiences with medical training, I don't think medicine (and medical training in particular) is at all wonderful for those who would like to have a semblance of a normal life. Yes, people do manage to "make it work," but they make a lot of sacrifices that people with other careers don't have to make. And again, since the OP is already starting out not 100% committed to being a physician, I'd argue that it would be better if s/he did something else.

 

[deleted6669]

I know he's disagreeing with the point of my post, but I disagree with your interpretation. Either he misinterpreted what I wrote, or he left out the "don't" at the beginning of the sentence/was being sarcastic as you suggested. Seeing as his posts are generally polite, it seems much more likely that he misinterpreted my post rather than that he was mocking it.

.

YUP, misimnterpreted your intent. not tring to be rude or sarcastic.

 

[kayak30]

After shadowing and meeting not only doctors but PA's there are pros and cons to both as already mentioned above. The decision is really up to you. I recommend that you get out there and shadow more!! Before my shadowing in the OR I wouldn't have even considered PA, however, watching how involved and part of the team the PA was in surgery (orthopedic) was pretty cool. There are different types of PA's and different specialties in Medicine as well...honestly, the best place to start is by observing! I am applying MD/DO, and if I don't get accepted in a 2 year window after this year I will be applying PA. I also did speak with one doc who was a PA who ended up doing med school later but did PA due to family and was happy with the decision at the time...there are always options.

 

[45408]

What I found to be the most convincing argument against becoming a PA (per emedpa) was definitely the glass ceiling. I don't doubt that the work of a PA can be just as arduous as the work of a MD/DO (considering it's essentially the same)

No, it's not. It varies by specialty, but the PAs rarely work harder than the physician, in my facility. The neurosurgery PAs put in longer hours though, that's for sure.

and I am definitely someone who likes to feel my pain is somehow justified personally. I can see myself as a happy PA in my 20s and 30s, but I'm not so sure past that. In the ER I can think of one PA in his 40s that does seem a little burned out. Not in the overworked sense but in the "WTF am I doing?" sense. Then again I see NPs the same age who seem very sprightly and appear to love their job.

There are a lot of PAs in their 40-50s here who all seem quite happy with what they're doing. I know three guys in their 60s who have been doing this for 30+ years.

There is one key thing I did not mention though. I am not 100% sure that medicine is something I would want to stick with my whole life. Both of my parents changed their careers late in life, and I can see myself doing the same.

I would definitely not become a physician if that were my plan.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I know he's disagreeing with the point of my post, but I disagree with your interpretation. Either he misinterpreted what I wrote, or he left out the "don't" at the beginning of the sentence/was being sarcastic as you suggested. Seeing as his posts are generally polite, it seems much more likely that he misinterpreted my post rather than that he was mocking it.

Everyone's opinions here are bound to be biased based on their own experiences. This forum is full of people who want to go to medical school, and therefore it is not surprising that a majority of the replies are hard core pro-medical school. But based on my experiences with medical training, I don't think medicine (and medical training in particular) is at all wonderful for those who would like to have a semblance of a normal life. Yes, people do manage to "make it work," but they make a lot of sacrifices that people with other careers don't have to make. And again, since the OP is already starting out not 100% committed to being a physician, I'd argue that it would be better if s/he did something else.

YUP, misimnterpreted your intent. not tring to be rude or sarcastic.

Sorry about that.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I am a lowly MS1... I did not choose PA school because of a great many things emedpa posted, and additionally, after 10yrs of being told what to do, when, how, etc in biotech, I was pretty well fed up with not being able to make decisions for myself... When I was visiting a friend in the hospital and I saw the cardiologist with his PA and nurse following him, I knew I wanted to be 'that guy' not the people walking behind him... I have friends who are PAs and are very happy doing it, WHY are they happy:
1. They leave at 5pm, everyday, forever, always
2. they are never on call
3. they make decent money
4. they're not on the line if something goes wrong

As emedpa said, screw up and you could be strung up, but my friends have never made that statement to me... These people are in clinics, and they work clinic hours, they don't have rough lives, they have every weekend off, and they like their lives...

I have to say, I get fed up already with people 22-27 in my class/school telling me 'what to do' (especially since they have no authority to do so) so when you're my age in 13 or so years, how do you think you'll feel about it? Being talked down to sucks, but it especially sucks when the person is considerably younger...

 

[E27]

I'm with Q on this one. Working like a dog as a PA or as a pshysician is some fields means you're a workaholic. Working like a dog in the years Q describes in the course of your training as a doc means somebody owns your @ss. Period. I'm convinced the main reason health care is so ridiculously hierarchical is because physician training is being owned and owned again and again until you stumble across some finish line somewhere. Every step your hundreds of thousands in the hole knowing you piss off the wrong person from the clerk to top dog and your life gets radically more difficult. On a whim.

I've spent 2 weeks ever so incrementally softening the grumpy brow furrowed distaste for medical students in my resident to a passing disregard. A warm blanket for a cold OR here. A run to get her Cheetos there. And so on. All the while as she uses me to do things she doesn't want to do like get things and information from the grumpiest OB clerk on the planet. So I get barked at by this miserable lady just so my resident doesn't have to. Barking at medical students is sport on this unit. And I smile. And just let my future stomach cancer seed itself. That's just how I get through 24 hour OB shifts.

i pay 1 large a week for this. I'm turning 40. I have back pain that would put an unaccustomed person in bed or in a doctors's office and on a cocktail of pain killers amd muscle relaxers. i fight to get at 45 minutes of therapeutic exercise, when I have the guts enough not to study and to take care of my aging fattening self. Did I mention the cafeteria in this ghetto catholic hospital isn't fit for the cockroaches that blanket the place.

24 to 27 months total and you're making 80 g's as a PA. And working a normal 40-45 is considered the expected trade off. Living your life like it's golden, golden. So you have to suck the occasional d!ck professionally. I used to think i couldn't stomach that. Until I tealized I had 2 in my hands and one in my mouth and was paying good money for it.

This is pure gold, too funny.

To the OP-- Like you, I have been considering PA vs MD for quite some time now. However, I have recently chosen to pursue PA school over medical school.

Do yourself a favor and throw yourself into as many clinical experiences as you can get your hands on (shadowing, volunteering, employment, anything where you interact with PAs and MDs). My experiences since graduating college a few years ago have ultimately tipped the scale toward PA, despite being full-steam-ahead for MD throughout my undergrad years.

I encourage you to invest the time now (whether that be 1 or 2 years) to really figure out which career path is best suited for you. Your experiences will help you make a decision one way or another, and your application will be better off for it (regardless of which pathway you choose).

I wish you all the best, as I know this decision can be highly frustrating to make. Try not to be influenced by what friends/family want you to do, as this is a decision that will result in sacrifices that YOU have to make, no one else. Get the experience within different clinical settings, and you will find yourself gravitating toward one profession over the other.

Good luck!

 

[futureboy]

I'm trying to make the same decision - PA vs MD. I'm in my 40s, so the time in school is more of a factor than it would be if I were younger. Another factor is that the PA program has more prereqs then the standard med school prereqs, and claims an entering student avg GPA of 3.7. It also says it admits only 5-7% of its applicants.

Any thoughts?

 

[jombojuice22]

I'm trying to make the same decision - PA vs MD. I'm in my 40s, so the time in school is more of a factor than it would be if I were younger. Another factor is that the PA program has more prereqs then the standard med school prereqs, and claims an entering student avg GPA of 3.7. It also says it admits only 5-7% of its applicants.

Any thoughts?

You've been on this forum for nearly 7 years and made 700 posts. I assume you've been thinking about this for a long time and already have a pretty good idea of what is right for you. Why do you make this post right now, and not 5-6 years ago?

Do you have most of the pre-req's done for either? How many more clinical hours would you need for PA route? Will you be able to pay for school out of pocket or will you need to take out loans?

 

[Aminex]

I'm trying to make the same decision - PA vs MD. I'm in my 40s, so the time in school is more of a factor than it would be if I were younger. Another factor is that the PA program has more prereqs then the standard med school prereqs, and claims an entering student avg GPA of 3.7. It also says it admits only 5-7% of its applicants.

Any thoughts?

Spoke with someone at the physician assistant forums who applied to a school I'm interested in. It's an unassuming Midwestern school--certainly no Duke or the like. 3.96 science GPA and not even an interview or a call. There are rumors of 1,000+ applications for 30-50 seats. I can imagine an inflection point (if it hasn't come already) where your chances of getting into medical school are better than PA school.

 

[occams_razor]

I'm trying to make the same decision - PA vs MD. I'm in my 40s, so the time in school is more of a factor than it would be if I were younger. Another factor is that the PA program has more prereqs then the standard med school prereqs, and claims an entering student avg GPA of 3.7. It also says it admits only 5-7% of its applicants.

Any thoughts?

More pre-reqs? Im in NY and the PA schools here don't require any physics, only 1 semester of Orgo or biochem and no MCAT. IMO these are all of the worst pre-med requirements (especially the MCAT). they do require more clinical hours though (1000 hours)

 

[wholeheartedly]

More pre-reqs? Im in NY and the PA schools here don't require any physics, only 1 semester of Orgo or biochem and no MCAT. IMO these are all of the worst pre-med requirements (especially the MCAT). they do require more clinical hours though (1000 hours)

PA schools pre-reqs seem pretty school specific. The one's around here have more prereqs than the med schools around here and about 2000 clinical hours required. It seems pretty variable.

 

[futureboy]

You've been on this forum for nearly 7 years and made 700 posts. I assume you've been thinking about this for a long time and already have a pretty good idea of what is right for you. Why do you make this post right now, and not 5-6 years ago?

Do you have most of the pre-req's done for either? How many more clinical hours would you need for PA route? Will you be able to pay for school out of pocket or will you need to take out loans?

These are fair questions. Why not 5-6 years ago? The best short answer to that is that life got in the way. I decided to apply to a post-bacc program that has a conditional admission to medical school (MD). I'll be done with all my prereqs this semester except for ochem.