Honestly??

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Hey guys,

Someone I know decided to apply to pharmacy school 1 week before the march 1st deadline, and applied to all those schools.....he had to rush to get LOR's and he got 1 from the pharmacist in his home town who didn't even know him, but knew his dad pretty well......because of this, the pharmacist did not write a very long, nice letter....instead the pharmacist just wrote 3 lines "he is a good student. i think he would make a good pharmacist. you should accept him" was basically the gist of it......well he took the letter, used the pharmacists liscensing number and completely rewrote it himself and forged the pharmacists signature!!!! He still has 4 pre reqs to take, but he got invited for an interview at st. johns fisher...which he said lasted 2.5 hours...and he just found out he got in.....

This is very annoying and disappointing to the pharmacy profession, and it makes me mad because he manipulates people and has been lying and cheating his way through undergrad....

Maybe I am salty because I didnt get into my first choice school.....

What do u guys think bout this?? just wanted to vent......
 
yes it is really sad and upsetting that someone would do something so disgraceful just so he can get into pharm school and have the face to tell ppl he got in. unfortunately you can find people like that in all fields of work, not just applying to pharmacy school. i met this guy during one of my pharmacy interview and he flat out told me that the only reason he's going to pharmacy school is because all his relatives and family want him to go to pharmacy school and that some of his relatives are pharmacists so they can tell him how good the profession is. not only that he also told me that his pharmacist relatives wrote his personal statements for him. i was pretty shocked to hear that but what can i do about it?? he even applied to one med school and got in but rejected it because he doesn't want to go into healthcare as a physician. i know many people would so want to be in his position, to be able to get into med school with one try.
anywayz we cant change how a person is and make him understand that the act he has done is wrong, but as long as we stand by our own values and way of living a life that is right and continue to work hard, we can be proud of ourselves for the way we achieve our goals. don't let people's cheating ways get you down. i say do your best, work hard while maintaining moral and honest judgements at whatever you do🙂
 
Just don't do what that person did, and you'll be fine.

I figure it'll come back and bite him in the ass some day...somehow.
 
Just call up St. Johns and say "Hey that bastard forged his letter of recommendation. Here is the number to the pharmacist who supposedly wrote it. Thank you and have a good day."
 
Or possibly our SJF Insider might want to PM the original poster......
 
PrePharm1980 said:
Just call up St. Johns and say "Hey that bastard forged his letter of recommendation. Here is the number to the pharmacist who supposedly wrote it. Thank you and have a good day."
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Yeah, that's crap. You can solve this 'problem' in 30 seconds.
 
You know what don't give a crap about the person who did that. It's always come around. He will pay for that one way or another. It's the law of the nature.
 
Dr.Biassi said:
You know what don't give a crap about the person who did that. It's always come around. He will pay for that one way or another. It's the law of the nature.
Click to expand...

I would love to believe this is true.
 
Tired Pigeon said:
I would love to believe this is true.
Click to expand...


I believe it is true. You can only try to cheat and con your way through life so much before eventually you slip up and get caught. I for one would not accuse someone of such actions without being able to prove myself 100%.
 
fmbzp5 said:
I believe it is true. You can only try to cheat and con your way through life so much before eventually you slip up and get caught. I for one would not accuse someone of such actions without being able to prove myself 100%.
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Agree with you completely about the standard of proof.

More cynical about this stuff catching up with people. Sometimes, but not often enough.🙁
 
You're going to run into people like this guy your entire life. I find it best to focus on yourself and make sure you're doing the best that you can. If you try to focus too much on all the fakers you come across it'll end up negatively effecting yourself in the end.
 
omnione said:
How did he send the letter given that the source must mail the letter himself to PharmCAS or the school without ever letting it get into contact with the applicant?
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Maybe the pharmacist filled out the envelope and handed it to him to drop in the mail? If someone wanted to open it to look at the inside, that person might be "Friendly" and offer to drop it off in the mail for the person.
 
He didnt apply to that school through pharmCAS, and yeah thats what he did.....the 100% proof would just be to contact that pharmacist
 
You should call the pharmacist and ask directly if your reported version of the letter is correct. If the pharmacist confirms that then you need to inform him that you think the letter was altered and figure out whether he would be willing to confirm that with the school. If he is willing to tell the truth to the school and it matches your version then have him contact the school or you should. That's a lot of ifs, but if what you say is true then you should feel no shame whatsoever in burning this guy and the school will have no trouble kicking him out. Someone on the waiting list deserves the spot more IF your version of events is true.

Frankly, I think someone is probably embellishing - either the person who told you this story or you in telling it on SDN.
 
wow thats annoying and i don't blame you for venting. i have been a pharmacy tech for almost 15 years now, and decided 4 years ago i wanted to be a pharmacist and now i cant get in!!!!!!!! the competition is so fierce i can't stand it. i know i can be a better pharmacists than some of these students who intern with me as well and havent a clue. its become a very fustrating endeavor.
 
I personally would just let it go... too much trouble and it doesnt' directly concern me.

But the RIGHT thing to do is to contact the pharmacist and let him know what you think went wrong, and then take it from there...

Make sure to tell the pharmacist you want to remain anonymous though.. because I would imagine that guy would be pretty angry with you (you dont know what he might do if the pharamcist tells him who ratted him out).

I think the pharmacist should probably then contact the school himself after that, and if the pharmacist refuses and just decides to let it slide (which I don't think he'd do), then I'd just let the whole thing go as well. Its his word versus yours if thats the case, if the pharmacist refuses to participate.

Then again if the pharmacist is a good friend of his dad, then the pharmacist may just give him a severe "slap on the wrist". Its not fair... but thats the way the way the world works sometimes.

Its ultimately up to the pharmacist I think, its your obligation to tell the pharmacist though.
 
Unfortunately, I think it happens quite often. It's part of life.
 
fmbzp5 said:
Maybe the pharmacist filled out the envelope and handed it to him to drop in the mail? If someone wanted to open it to look at the inside, that person might be "Friendly" and offer to drop it off in the mail for the person.
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That's what I suspected, but I guess that my weakness for being naive led me to think that no pharmacist and professional would be misguided enough to give the letter to the applicant.😳
 
Come on guys, what this person did definetly sucks big time and reflects negatively on his character and for that matter the character of the pharmacists in his family that wrote his personal statement for him. The OP stated that the pharmacist in the guy's home town didn't even know him personally, only his father. If this guy agreed to write even a few sentences for someone he didn't know what makes you think he will go through all of the motions to call the school to find out if what he wrote is what was submitted. I'm sure he could care less. He was doing the kid's dad a favor anyway. Bottom line, karma is a B#$@h and this incident will be back to bite him in the arse later.
 
This story is not embellished......I know this happened because this guy happens to be my roommate! AND he did apply to 2 schools through pharmCAS that got this letter......what happened was he applied through pharmCAS and the pharmacist submitted the "bad" letter to them....and he asked the pharmacist for a hardcopy of the letter for schools not affiliated through pharmCAS, at which time he "fixed" it.....so the proof would be if they just crossreferenced the original letter initially submitted through pharmCAS right???

Like a lot of you have been saying, I do not think it is worth my trouble to contact this pharmacist....i know where his homeotwn is, but not what pharmacy he works in.....

I could ask him what store and for the guys name, but he would know i burned him because only me and another person know about this.....

It is just disappointing that in a profession where honesty and intergrity are keys to being successful, this guy has no regard for either one
 
If it were me in the situation I would let it go.

It's like trying to toss somebody into a mud puddle... whether they drag you down with them or chase you down after they have fell in... your still going to get dirty.

Yes you did nothing wrong.. but you will still be involved in the muck if you get involved.

It sucks to be sure... but you may as well get used to low lifes being around. It's part of life no matter what you do. The only real thing you can do to stay out of it is to take the high road at all times and do your best to distance yourself from people prone to that type of "activities".

Besides.. you said he had cheated through the pre-reqs... What are the chances he gets motivated enough to learn the material in pharm school? So he starts cheating again, gets nailed, and gets kicked out. There is a reason they say cheaters never win afterall.
 
I really hate to quote Justin Timberlake here but, what goes around comes back around. It may not have anything to do with pharmacy, but I am a firm believer that stuff like this will come back and bite you in the ass someday.
 
That's right. Karma is a b-tch and I hope some day that gatorpharmer or his family aren't being treated in the ER by a doc the hospital staff knows is incompetent, but won't say anything or get in a car accident with a drunk driver whose friends didn't want to say anything or get mugged by someone who was free cause it was too much trouble for his victims to report the crime (or testify). What goes around comes around.

Obviously, the above is hyperbole, but you're doing the morally WRONG thing by ingoring it. I'm not perfect by far and there are situations where I might not pursue something (just yesterday I'm pretty sure I saw a woman stuff some meat into her dress at the grocery store), but don't pretend that its ok to ignore it because there's some kind of cosmic scoring system.
 
Thank you for the post.

This is very disheartening, and if true, the Assistant Dean and the Admissions Committee would take this very seriously.

I would appreciate your privating me with details so that it could be looked into.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, however we would investigate this allegation thoroughly.

SJFCInsider
 
cycloketocaine said:
I really hate to quote Justin Timberlake here but, what goes around comes back around. It may not have anything to do with pharmacy, but I am a firm believer that stuff like this will come back and bite you in the ass someday.
Click to expand...

Even though soprano isn't one of my musical tastes, I actually liked that song.😀

Is this the way it's really going down?
Is this how we say goodbye?
Should've known better when you came around
That you were gonna make me cry
It's breaking my heart to watch you run around
'Cause I know that you're living a lie
That's okay baby 'cause in time you will find...

What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around

Yeah.......🙂
 
I never heard anything back from the original poster.

Was this a hoax?
 
InsiderSJFC said:
I never heard anything back from the original poster.

Was this a hoax?
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Maybe it's something he/she just wanted to vent about and never thought would go anywhere. I'd be scared if I never thought it'd get to the level of actually affecting my roommates chances and then all of a sudden someone from the school wanted to take action.
 
senzabee said:
Maybe it's something he/she just wanted to vent about and never thought would go anywhere. I'd be scared if I never thought it'd get to the level of actually affecting my roommates chances and then all of a sudden someone from the school wanted to take action.
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I'd also worry that the roommate would find out and try to get revenge on me with my school.
 
What goes around comes around- justin timberlake😀
 
gatorpharmer- what was your Number one choice? Uf? Did you get a rejection letter or just haven't heard?
 
I have already written the letter I would send to the insider but have been struggling with myself on whether i should send it or not......he will be moving out at the end of may...so i think i would feel better disclosing it then....but i think that i have given enough information in my posts that the insider could figure out who he was if he really wanted to.....they only have like 65 acceptees??

i dont know i'm not scared of what he will do to me, i am more scared that it will ruin the rest of his life......

what do u guys think??
 
gatorpharmer said:
I have already written the letter I would send to the insider but have been struggling with myself on whether i should send it or not......he will be moving out at the end of may...so i think i would feel better disclosing it then....but i think that i have given enough information in my posts that the insider could figure out who he was if he really wanted to.....they only have like 65 acceptees??

i dont know i'm not scared of what he will do to me, i am more scared that it will ruin the rest of his life......

what do u guys think??
Click to expand...

"I wonder you friend does not log on to SDN". Instead of sending that letter, ask your friend to log on to SDN where he/she will learn more about the values and expectation associated with being pharmacist.
ray
 
gatorpharmer said:
i dont know i'm not scared of what he will do to me, i am more scared that it will ruin the rest of his life......

what do u guys think??
Click to expand...

If that happens, then he ruined his life not you. I mean if he is going to break the rules with unethical behavior, then it's common sense for him to keep his mouth shut and not gloat about it to other people. He literally asked for punishment by telling you about it.

Good karma can be followed by retribution by those affected negatively by your actions. I remember reading a story about a whistle-blower med school resident named Troy Madsen at John Hopkins who alerted people about the excessive and illegal work hours residents there had to work. There is a limit on work hours believe it or not. Though action was taken by the authorities that led to penalties imposed on John Hopkins with the threat of losing accreditation, Madsen ended up leaving John Hopkins for Ohio State after his colleagues ostracized him.

So, I agree with the others that retribution would worry me more than what happens to his life. If the guy has a network, then your life in pharmacy school and afterwards could be unfairly difficult. You just have to decide for yourself about the possible ramifications about your actions.🙂
 
I have spoken to the appropriate persons regarding this situaton.

This will be the last time that I post or read this particular thread. At St. John Fisher, we are not on a witch hunt looking for things. If someone reports dishonesty, we investigate it and take appropriate action.

In all fairness to the poster, you should not post these kind of threads if you are not going to defend them. In all honesty, it now seems you have a concern with this person, are making allegations, but will not back them up.

Yes - there will be 65 students in the class, but if you want to send the information, do so. As you stated in the post, you have given enough 'clues' that we could figure it out. This is not a game. We are not need to have to figure anything out.

Instead it is a serious allegation. And unfortunately, it appears unfounded based on the information provided.
 
InsiderSJFC said:
I have spoken to the appropriate persons regarding this situaton.

This will be the last time that I post or read this particular thread. At St. John Fisher, we are not on a witch hunt looking for things. If someone reports dishonesty, we investigate it and take appropriate action.

In all fairness to the poster, you should not post these kind of threads if you are not going to defend them. In all honesty, it now seems you have a concern with this person, are making allegations, but will not back them up.

Yes - there will be 65 students in the class, but if you want to send the information, do so. As you stated in the post, you have given enough 'clues' that we could figure it out. This is not a game. We are not need to have to figure anything out.

Instead it is a serious allegation. And unfortunately, it appears unfounded based on the information provided.
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I agree with insider that people shouldn't do something if they're not going to back it up. But at the same time, gatorpharmer's intention of his post was not to rat on his roommate! It was to merely vent about it as an "anonymous" poster online. I'd understand if he went to the school, accused the guy, then backed out. But he didn't go to the school, someone at the school happened to read this thread that was not intended to be read by a staff member. It is the internet and this reaches more people than we can imagine, so we should watch what we say. We really aren't as anonymous as we think we are and our words can result in more action than intended. I personally think we should shut this thread down and leave it at that.
 
I never knew a lor from a pharmacist was such a biggie...
 
Yes and no. It's true that he may have believed that this was an anonymous forum, but this is the #1 site on the net for this community. And, he named a specific school which reflects poorly on that school. He gave enough information (there can only be a few people admitted from Florida in the entering class) to identify the person. Secondly, this is a serious charge and I'm surprised by how many people are willing to brush it off. This kind of charge goes to the heart of the integrity of the admissions process. The admissions committee at each school takes their job seriously and would not be happy to know that they were decieved. Finally, the consequences for this type of action would clearly be revocation of the offer of admission. I cannot believe that gatorpharmer was unaware of that. I don't know what he was trying to accomplish by posting this, but just as I believe his roommate's actions should have consequences, I believe his should as well.

If he chooses to let it drop then that's his decision, but he should be held accountable for his actions. In short he has made a very serious charge in a public forum against an individual and by extension the school. If he chooses not to stand behind that accusation then we are free to draw conclusions as to the veracity of the story and/or his commitment to the integrity of the profession.
 
You can say things like "it will come around and bite him in the ass later" but that is not a solution to a problem. Pharmacists are a trusted profession rooted in strong ethics. Call up the pharmacist or the school and say something, "make a difference".

Think about it this way, he cheated to get into pharmacy school and took the spot of some other student that worked hard and HONESTLY! Do the right thing, step up and say something. It is HARD to do but it is the right thing to do.

Sorry to rant, but I hate to hear about something like this and nothing is being done when as an above poster mentioned, "problem could be solved in 30 seconds" and a deserving student can take the spot!

Make the right decision....
 
I would say that you better be 110% confident in your evidence against this person. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. If you carry this out and contact the school, which in-turn will contact the referring pharmacist, but the pharmacist sides with the said applicant, then you've just committed slander and your a$$ will be on the line. If this does not directly affect you, then I would drop it because this kid will not be able to play politics in grad. school, and his/her ways WILL catch up with them. Good luck.
 
Idesiretosling said:
You can say things like "it will come around and bite him in the ass later" but that is not a solution to a problem. Pharmacists are a trusted profession rooted in strong ethics. Call up the pharmacist or the school and say something, "make a difference".

Think about it this way, he cheated to get into pharmacy school and took the spot of some other student that worked hard and HONESTLY! Do the right thing, step up and say something. It is HARD to do but it is the right thing to do.

Sorry to rant, but I hate to hear about something like this and nothing is being done when as an above poster mentioned, "problem could be solved in 30 seconds" and a deserving student can take the spot!

Make the right decision....
Click to expand...

Well said. I totally agree with this post. Don't let dishonesty prevail. We must act and fight for what is right.
 
Idesiretosling said:
You can say things like "it will come around and bite him in the ass later" but that is not a solution to a problem. Pharmacists are a trusted profession rooted in strong ethics. Call up the pharmacist or the school and say something, "make a difference".

Think about it this way, he cheated to get into pharmacy school and took the spot of some other student that worked hard and HONESTLY! Do the right thing, step up and say something. It is HARD to do but it is the right thing to do.

Sorry to rant, but I hate to hear about something like this and nothing is being done when as an above poster mentioned, "problem could be solved in 30 seconds" and a deserving student can take the spot!

Make the right decision....
Click to expand...

Agree. This is not a victimless action; there is a real, live person out there who is objectively more deserving of that spot that did not get it because of this guy's dishonesty. OP, you sound like it's not a matter of any uncertainty, so do the right thing.
 
There are a number of wrongs here apparently.

The first is the alleged lack of honesty in obtaining and sending a LOR to a pharmacy school.

Then, there is the inappropriateness of this applicant speaking openly of the above.

Then, there is the willingness of the OP to disclose this on an anynomous forum without documentation which amounts in both Insider's & my perceptions as nothing more than gossip. It also apparently negates any confidentiality the roommate had with the OP.

Then, there is the faulty process that St John has in place of accepting LORs which are not documented as being directly from the writer (I have never given an admission LOR to the applicant) and my letters all have my documentation across the seal.

Now...many schools have made mistakes in admissions for any number of reasons. I can see Insider's point greater than the OP's.

But - let this be a lesson to all. Be careful of gossip & "sour grapes". We all feel justifiably rejected when we don't get our first or second choice. This will not be the last time you are in this position. But, don't let than diminish who you are and ultimately....that is the only one we can ever control.

When gossip ensues - turn away, become occupied with something else, and take the higher ground. You will always come out ahead.

Best of luck to everyone in this process......
 
I have a question that maybe InsiderSFJC or sdn1977 (or of course anyone) could answer. If someone alleges something serious such as on this thread with only his word as proof (no hard copy of the LOR, recording of the confessional conversation, etc etc), what are the steps that the admission committee would take? Will they take it as serious even with little substantial proof?

I guess I'm asking because anyone could make these types of accusations and damage an applicant, regardless of guilt or innocence. I definitely do now understand that this type of remark, even if meant as only venting, is a serious action. Or maybe this question is something again that should not be talked on the forum. I apologize if so.
 
Hey SDN1977 I just wanted to chime in and say that I recieved all my LORS directly from the letter writers.

Western U actually tells you to recieved the letters of evaluation directly from your writers, so you can submit them in one big envelope.

I know my pharmacist actually wrote me my pharmCAS lor, but decided not to use e-option for pharmCAS and she gave me the hardcopy herself to mail in.

They all siged over the seal of course though.

So its not that unusual for schools to place an certain level of trust with their applicants.. and I'm sure most of us don't abuse that power, its just 1% (not that I was implying you were SDN1977, I just saying this method is really standard procedure)
 
senzabee said:
I have a question that maybe InsiderSFJC or sdn1977 (or of course anyone) could answer. If someone alleges something serious such as on this thread with only his word as proof (no hard copy of the LOR, recording of the confessional conversation, etc etc), what are the steps that the admission committee would take? Will they take it as serious even with little substantial proof?

I guess I'm asking because anyone could make these types of accusations and damage an applicant, regardless of guilt or innocence. I definitely do now understand that this type of remark, even if meant as only venting, is a serious action. Or maybe this question is something again that should not be talked on the forum. I apologize if so.
Click to expand...

Given Insider's post that she won't be viewing this, it may take a PM to get a response from her.
 
Farmercyst said:
Given Insider's post that she won't be viewing this, it may take a PM to get a response from her.
Click to expand...

Oh it's not something that must be answered and answered correctly by an actual insider. Just a general question because it makes me wonder if an accusation without proof can warrant a "search" upon this person's application.
 
I'm just wondering how severe the consequences would be.. I mean obviously he would get kicked out, but will the school then notify pharmCAS? Will this affect his chances next year?
 
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