Honestly??

  • Thread starter Thread starter gatorpharmer
  • Start date Start date
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Cheating is never right. "Snitching" on someone who is clearly doing something deceitful restores integrity to the admissions process. It's not childish, it's the responsible thing to do. I worry for the future generations who contend that cheating is ok and continue to justify their dishonesty with flimsy excuses.
 
ok i shouldve said most and not "everyone." I wasn't talking about lying about everything they ask but just for simple questions like "can anyone trust you?" As you can see, most of the people here thought that gatorpharm did the right thing for snitching "a friend" so it is likely that most people on this forum will lie to the interviewer and say they are trustworthy. that kind of lie. just to look good is what i meant.

Nice try, but no cigar. Once again, you're justifying shortcomings..... whose, I wonder? You still can't speak for others, and once again, I seriously doubt you know everyone on this forum, so you're in no position to make any claims for "most people."

Why are you looking so hard to find moral shortcomings in others?

Please.... don't ever make any sort of statement implying that you speak for me. You don't, and I don't want anyone to think that you do.
 
Please.... don't ever make any sort of statement implying that you speak for me. You don't, and I don't want anyone to think that you do.

Has anyone else noticed that the people on SDN who claim to speak for "most people" are usually saying the most dumba$$ things?
 
Has anyone else noticed that the people on SDN who claim to speak for "most people" are usually saying the most dumba$$ things?

I don't think that particular syndrome is SDN-specific...... ;-)
 
Has anyone else noticed that the people on SDN who claim to speak for "most people" are usually saying the most dumba$$ things?

Some would argue that most people ARE *******es...
 
who says i speak for others. I was telling you the facts. that for interviews with questions like "can anyone trust you?" name anyone who will answer NO. If you find one I will pay for your tuition. lol. Another question interviwers might ask is "have you ever been fired?" what is the most likely answer you will hear? cmon tell me. if you answered NO then i can make a statement that most people will lie during an interview to look good. now how is that speaking for others? wow.

ask your pharmacist if he/she ever worked with a "bad" technician? most will say yes? so how did that technician get his/her job? he/she mustve lied during an interview to get that job. example "yes manager, i can handle this job i wont come in late, i agree with all the rules" this happens in all types of job. everyone will lie and say they agree with the rules then after working they complain and sometimes come in late. but thats not what they said during the interview.

AMHERST, Mass. – Most people lie in everyday conversation when they are trying to appear likable and competent, according to a study conducted by University of Massachusetts psychologist Robert S. Feldman and published in the most recent Journal of Basic and Applied Social Psychology.

so the writer is speaking for everyone right? right....
oh wait am i comparing apple to oranges.
 
Da Alchemist, I think you should keep in mind two things:

1. The First Rule of Holes: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

2. You're never as anonymous as you think you are especially on the Internet.

Since you are not planning on answering this question when it counts (in the interview) like you are arguing here, I'd shut up if I were you. (But I'm not so I'm sure you'll do whatever you please.)
 
A friend and classmate of mine didn't finish her lab notebook because of an unpredictable cause. This lab notebook which is 25% of our grade can ruin your grade in class and it was due. I gave her my notebook after mine was checked so she could change the name and use is as hers (we have different lab professors). OMG i am a cheater now! PLEASE DONT TELL THE ADCOMS :scared:

Come on people get real!
 
Sorry Double Post :laugh:
 
who says i speak for others. I was telling you the facts. that for interviews with questions like "can anyone trust you?" name anyone who will answer NO. If you find one I will pay for your tuition. lol. Another question interviwers might ask is "have you ever been fired?" what is the most likely answer you will hear? cmon tell me. if you answered NO then i can make a statement that most people will lie during an interview to look good. now how is that speaking for others? wow.

ask your pharmacist if he/she ever worked with a "bad" technician? most will say yes? so how did that technician get his/her job? he/she mustve lied during an interview to get that job. example "yes manager, i can handle this job i wont come in late, i agree with all the rules" this happens in all types of job. everyone will lie and say they agree with the rules then after working they complain and sometimes come in late. but thats not what they said during the interview.

AMHERST, Mass. – Most people lie in everyday conversation when they are trying to appear likable and competent, according to a study conducted by University of Massachusetts psychologist Robert S. Feldman and published in the most recent Journal of Basic and Applied Social Psychology.

so the writer is speaking for everyone right? right....
oh wait am i comparing apple to oranges.

Clearly you are unaware of the definitions of the words "fact" and "opinion," and you are unable or unwilling to differentiate between the two. Once again, and please consider this to be official notification: please do not ever attempt to speak for me. Because once again, sir, you are way out of line to make any sort of statement containing the word "everyone." You do not learn. Lesson: When you speak in absolute terms ('everyone,' 'no one,' 'you always,' 'they never,' etc.) you are setting yourself up to look incredibly foolish. When you do it repeatedly, well, then, there isn't much I can do for you. Are you now claiming that over half the population has (1) been fired from a job, and (2) that all those people who have been fired will deny it when asked? Excellent! Now here's the challenge: you made the claim, now you back it up. Because you know (or maybe you don't know?) that you'd need to be able to show both (1) and (2) in order for your statement "Another question interviwers might ask is "have you ever been fired?" what is the most likely answer you will hear? cmon tell me. if you answered NO then i can make a statement that most people will lie during an interview to look good." to be even reasonably close to true.

I think the scariest part of this is that you still don't see how that is speaking for others.

When you can give me peer reviewed studies that you have conducted that demonstrate some sort of credibility to make blanket statements about what "everyone" or even "most people" say or do, I may listen to what you have to contribute. Until then, you are not even in the right league.

You are making assumptions about me that are not based in fact, because you are ignorant of the facts. Here are some facts: I do not need or want you to pay my tuition. I am not interviewing for pharmacy school.

Clearly you can't even define a "fact," so how can we believe something that you claim is fact?
 
If you read carefully, I already corrected myself and said i shouldve said MOST instead of "everyone" I said "everyone" because i was over exagerating. And my only claim is MOST people will lie about some things during an interview to make themself look good. forget the statistics of how many people have been fired. just tell me if 10 people were fired and if they were to be interviewed how many of them will be honest and say "YES" Since most employer will not call your last employer to ask if you were fired it is simple to lie and say NO i havent been fired. you really have to be Jesus to admit you were fired. and most people are not jesus.

Proof is really not needed to back up my claim but here is a controlled experiment anyway.
http://www.careerjournal.com/hrcenter/shrm/features/20040609-shrm.html


and to that other person 2 post above...anonymous? what are you talking about? ROFL!
 
A friend and classmate of mine didn't finish her lab notebook because of an unpredictable cause. This lab notebook which is 25% of our grade can ruin your grade in class and it was due. I gave her my notebook after mine was checked so she could change the name and use is as hers (we have different lab professors). OMG i am a cheater now! PLEASE DONT TELL THE ADCOMS :scared:

Come on people get real!

Albo the right thing to do was to snitch on your "friend" says most of the posters for they are honorable humans. LOL
 
My soul is for sale too....

The comforting thing here is that the number of people who think it's wrong to "snitch on a friend" is smaller than the number of people who have the personal courage to stand up for what's right.

It's easy to hide behind "It's okay to cheat because everyone cheats." Cowardly and wrong, but still easy.
 
Anonymous? I mean you're being a first class a**hole. People recognize each other in real life from these discussion boards and, if and when that happens, you are disadvantaging yourself from getting into pharmacy school.
 
Anonymous? I mean you're being a first class a**hole. People recognize each other in real life from these discussion boards and, if and when that happens, you are disadvantaging yourself from getting into pharmacy school.

dingus? never that. if you read your post you told me to shut up. which is not very nice. I havent said anything rude/negative/nasty to anyone on this board. I bet you tell the interviewer you are a real nice person. but i will not reply back anything negative to you. I am disadvantaging myself really? because I am againts snitching on a friend? name a decent human who will snitch on their family/friend. Especially when the situation is not really causing serious harm. It is true, that It is right to be honest but snitching on a friend/family is being a snake. not trustworthy.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_ethics

Who counts for more, the pharmacist who's name has been forged or the 'friend' who has committed forgery?

Since it's not a matter of life and death, and no serious harm, can I forge your name to cosign for my student loans? I'm good for it, I swear.

But I think this is my last post on the subject, there seems to be some sort of perverse omerta going on that I'm unaware of.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_ethics

Who counts for more, the pharmacist who's name has been forged or the 'friend' who has committed forgery?

Since it's not a matter of life and death, and no serious harm, can I forge your name to cosign for my student loans? I'm good for it, I swear.

But I think this is my last post on the subject, there seems to be some sort of perverse omerta going on that I'm unaware of.

yea sure you can use my name no problem. but if i caught you ill visit you in jail. by the way the guy who commited the forgery is a different story, he already got a lor from the pharmacist all he did was add another sentence how can that be life threatening. and i dont think that would send him to jail. but me signing for student loans we are talking about big money. 2 different case.
 
can anyone trust you?

If the OP was ever asked this question in an interview, he could simply say, "Yes, everyone can trust me to do the right thing" and then go on to tell how he blew the whistle on a roommate who forged a LOR. I'm sure the pharmacy school interviewers would be very disturbed at the childish action taken by the OP and would promptly show him the door. All the faculty members would breathe a collective sigh of relief, taking solace in the fact that they just rejected a student who was a potential danger to the integrity of the school and the profession. I'm also certain that the pharmacist whose LOR was forged would also be very upset at the OP; the pharmacist clearly gave the kid the LOR with the intention that the LOR be forged, or at least changed so that it was no longer representative of his opinion of the kid. This is a textbook example of the pharmacist thought process. It's great that we have intelligent individuals, especially super bright alchemists, that have been so diligent in their efforts to lead us down the right moral path. Thank you guys, I'd be lost without you.
 
Well, it's not really fair to the pharmacist, the school, and the applicants. As for becoming a pharmacist, I'm sure that if he is as unqualified as he seems to be that he won't do well enough in pharmacy school to graduate and cause any harm out in the real world.
 
All -

Could I possibly ask that all the name calling and innuendos stop immediately?

I simply followed up on the board to bring closure to the situation. I did not mean to start arguments.

I believe some people are showing mixed ethics and allegiances. That's fine - as these are individual choices. But if someone cheats or lies about one thing, won't he/she likely do it again?

When these types of allegations occur, a committee must investigate to the best of its ability. This is what has happened in this situation.

When I first read the post, I did not believe it - but it did happen. PLUS, there are some other things that arose from this situation which can not be stated.

In closing, I again ask everyone to take the high road and avoid the inflammatory comments.

Thanks

InsiderSJFC
 
All -

Could I possibly ask that all the name calling and innuendos stop immediately?

I simply followed up on the board to bring closure to the situation. I did not mean to start arguments.

I believe some people are showing mixed ethics and allegiances. That's fine - as these are individual choices. But if someone cheats or lies about one thing, won't he/she likely do it again?

When these types of allegations occur, a committee must investigate to the best of its ability. This is what has happened in this situation.

When I first read the post, I did not believe it - but it did happen. PLUS, there are some other things that arose from this situation which can not be stated.

In closing, I again ask everyone to take the high road and avoid the inflammatory comments.

Thanks

InsiderSJFC



I agree personal attacks are uncalled for but with all due respect the situation is obviously not a cut and dry issue and such ethical debates should be encouraged not shut down.
 


When I first read the post, I did not believe it - but it did happen. PLUS, there are some other things that arose from this situation which can not be stated.

I hope no one got in trouble or fired because the OP will have ruined another life.
 
I hope no one got in trouble or fired because the OP will have ruined another life.

I can't believe that I just read this. I can entertain and see some value in Da Alchemist's argument that the trust from friendships could (and I stress the word "could" over "should") take precedence over ethics if the point of ethical concern isn't a big deal. But your statement is the most flat out preposterous thing I have read in my life.

The OP didn't ruin the forger's life, the forger ruined his own life. He committed an act that he had to know was punishable with serious consequences. Yet, he went on to blab about it not to a friend, but a roommate. Not a friend neccesarily, a roommate. Using your flawed logic, you would berate a person who snitches on a murderer because that sntich put the murderer in jail. Before you reply with something like, "murder is much more severe than academic dishonesty/forgery, the point isn't the crime. The point is that you are blaming a person for a punishment that another is responsible for via that other person's own actions

You make it sound that the forger had nothing to do with his own demise. Whether the OP decided to blow the whistle on the roommate or not, and regardless how you feel about academic dishonesty (you've already admitted that you don't really care), that does not eliminate the fact that the OP's roommate still forged a letter. He put himself at risk for his own punishment by doing so. If you don't think the penalty for forging a letter is just, then take the issue up with AACP and other educational entities.

If the OP's roommate didn't want to ruin his own life, then he should have done the following:

1. Apply earlier = He didn't apply until one week before the March 1st deadline. This person didn't have very good planning, and his planning was worse than many procrastinators.

2. Let the "bad" first letter go through, and let the situation plays itself through = Once again, its apparent that he didn't do enough research into the application process. I was late in my admissions process and I even knew that LORs weren't a make-or-break factor in my application. If this person was good enough for acceptance based on stats, then he would have gotten in by playing by the same rules everyone else should follow. If he needed that forged letter was the main factor that got him in, then he kept out one candidate who played by the rules.

3. I said this before and I'll say it again. If he found that had to exercise unethical behavior, then he shouldn't have told anyone about it! I'll admit that I'm not a perfect person and that I did some stuff some people here would define as unethical. It wasn't anywhere near as hazardous as academic dishonesty, but a good samaritan would have acted differently. But I also agree that some actions that are technically "crimes" do not warrant the punishment the justice system serves. Yet, I did not put my friends, family, aquaintances, and even strangers of deciding between emotions and doing the right thing.

The bottom line is that this person created his own predicament. He needs to blame himself for his dismissal, not the OP like you imply.
 
I hope no one got in trouble or fired because the OP will have ruined another life.

Are you serious??? I pity you.....But i am sure it is SOMEONE ELSE's FAULT this is the way you think!
 
Doesn't it just plain suck when someone you know cheated their way to get into pharmacy school? Here is my story:

Me, my bestfriend and her roommate all applied to pharmacy school this year. (I go to a different university from them and also applied to different schools). Well, my bestfriend is just the smartest and nicest girl you'll ever meet. As a result, her roommate ALWAYS takes advantage of her. They're both taking a lot of the same classes right now (pre-reqs) so her roommate always copies off her on exams and whatnot. My bestfriend hates it when she copies but feels bad when she doesn't let her copy because they live together. There are times when she doesn't let her copy and her rooommate will give her crap about it. Long story short..her roommate basically cheated on many of her pre-reqs & surprisingly her roommate also got into the same pharmacy school my bestfriend did. Now her roommate is basically asking her on a daily basis to "help her out" when they go to pharmacy school in fall. For example, if my bestfriend asks her roommate to do something for her, her roommate will say "only if you promise me you will help me in pharmacy school". 😱 Who does that? I don't know what to do. My bestfriend's roommate is a ridiculous girl who does not deserve to go to pharmacy school. 😡
 
Doesn't it just plain suck when someone you know cheated their way to get into pharmacy school? Here is my story:

Me, my bestfriend and her roommate all applied to pharmacy school this year. (I go to a different university from them and also applied to different schools). Well, my bestfriend is just the smartest and nicest girl you'll ever meet. As a result, her roommate ALWAYS takes advantage of her. They're both taking a lot of the same classes right now (pre-reqs) so her roommate always copies off her on exams and whatnot. My bestfriend hates it when she copies but feels bad when she doesn't let her copy because they live together. There are times when she doesn't let her copy and her rooommate will give her crap about it. Long story short..her roommate basically cheated on many of her pre-reqs & surprisingly her roommate also got into the same pharmacy school my bestfriend did. Now her roommate is basically asking her on a daily basis to "help her out" when they go to pharmacy school in fall. For example, if my bestfriend asks her roommate to do something for her, her roommate will say "only if you promise me you will help me in pharmacy school". 😱 Who does that? I don't know what to do. My bestfriend's roommate is a ridiculous girl who does not deserve to go to pharmacy school. 😡

Well, if I was your best friend and my roommate was doing this to me....... I'd have taken this opportunity to distance myself from this roommate, specifically by applying to different schools and choosing to go somewhere other than where the roommate went. How did they manage to apply to the same school? Clearly your best friend is feeding information to the roommate, and not just allowing her to copy for tests. If yur friend truly wanted to distance herself from this person who appears to be quite needy, then your friend should have already done it. The fact that she hasn't distanced herself leads me to believe that perhaps your friend likes being needed.

Regardless- this is yuor friend's situation, not yours. Your friend had ample opportunity (and apparently, ability) to change things and and she chose not to do that. It's on her.
 
Well, they basically applied to the school that they're attending right now for undergrad. Yea, you're right though. It's not really my problem @ all. It just sucks that there are always going to be people who cheated their way to get what they wanted. My only hope is kharma. :meanie:
 
how about during exams? how was she able to copy? pcat test? if she aced the pcat test without copying your bestfriend it means she's as brainy as your bestfriend (might be smarter think about it) maybe the roomate was just lazy doing homework. Just tell them if they are going to share homework assignments in the future, they should alternate LOL. roomate do the homework today your bestfriend the next day. :laugh:

and by the way. it wasnt just the roomate who cheated. your bestfriend cheated too. If you let others copy your answer during exam you are cheating. both are equally guilty.

and last, don't hope for karma, forgive them for not know what they do.
 
Somehow my bestfriend's roommate manages to copy off her during exams. I don't know how she does it but apparently she manages. As for the PCATS, she didn't do too well (low 70's), but I guess her GPA was good enough for her to get accepted. Like I said earlier, this whole situation isn't really my problem. I just wanted somewhere to vent you know? I feel disgusted when people who don't deserve to go to pharmacy school get admitted. As for kharma.. I'm still hoping. I'm not Gandhi. :laugh:
 
To copy off of someone for 1 or 2 classes might be ok, but to copy on all the exams in all the classes?? I don't think so!!!

Even if you sit next to the person, there is no way of copying without looking like you are copying. Especially in short-answer questions exams. How can you copy that?? How can you copy in o-chem when you have to draw structures and reactions? I remember, when I took my o-chem exams, there were 3 different copies of the test and we all sat every other seat. How can you copy in a class like that?

If your friend told you this, which means she is not happy about it. Then why would she allow it to happen over and over again? Nice wouldn't be the word I would use to describe her.
 
To copy off of someone for 1 or 2 classes might be ok, but to copy on all the exams in all the classes?? I don't think so!!!

Even if you sit next to the person, there is no way of copying without looking like you are copying. Especially in short-answer questions exams. How can you copy that?? How can you copy in o-chem when you have to draw structures and reactions? I remember, when I took my o-chem exams, there were 3 different copies of the test and we all sat every other seat. How can you copy in a class like that?

If your friend told you this, which means she is not happy about it. Then why would she allow it to happen over and over again? Nice wouldn't be the word I would use to describe her.

What do u mean it's impossible to copy in every exam, sure it is possible to and also she doesnt necessarily have to copy all the exams just some to make sure she gets an A or B in the classs, and ur school differs from other schools. Some teachers/schools dont even bother to seperate students. To draw, the students could switch their exam papers, it happens, i've seen it.

The friend might not be happy about it, but she might not want to deal with a nasty roommate all year round. Also the bonds of friendship is strong, she might not like what the roommate is doing but when the time comes to deny her she doesnt have the strength to do so. So she vents and does that to her best friend, which is waht the OP did in the first place, ha just came to vent on a public forum.
 
Well, I always tell her that she should not allow this to happen. But then again it's really difficult for her because they live together. They see each other every single day. Fortunately my bestfriend is trying to find somewhere else to live for fall so she wouldn't have to deal with her roommate anymore. Let's see her roommate survive pharmacy school by herself.
 
Just call up St. Johns and say "Hey that bastard forged his letter of recommendation. Here is the number to the pharmacist who supposedly wrote it. Thank you and have a good day."

I hope they did call and report this.

Many seem to believe in some kind of karma ("oh, it will come back at him some day"), but I'm of the school of thought that knows that the bad will keep getting away with crap until *someone* steps up and stops it.
 
Top Bottom