"Honor code violation" box on application

[buddha123]

Alright, this is a sensitive topic, I know, but I would like frank feedback, no criticism please. I have read a lot on SDN and I think this is the best tool for any pre-health professional, so once again, please keep it clean ...

Ill make this as short as I can

Heres the deal: For one of my classes, lets call it Math, our final assignment was a project to solve a problem, but it required a lot of time and knowledge collected from the past semester. I was bogged down with a lot of other finals (microbio, biochem, histology, all that good stuff, and I was teaching on the weekend fulltime), so I emailed a "mathematician" online and asked for his help. The mathematician informed my prof that I was cheating, and then my prof wanted to expell me (hes very anal about cheating). Anyway, I decided to leave without following through with the hearing and all, and I transferred to another univesity, and finished my degree there.

dont ask me why i left and didnt follow through, basically he was determined to fail me and expell me, he wanted to make an example out of me to other students, he told me straight to my face...so dont ask or criticize or lecture, just simple advice please...

The problem: as a result of leaving the university, my transcript has has an "Incomplete" for the class, and there is a tiny notation at the top of the transcript saying "Academic integrity - ###-###-#### (phone number)

SO what do i do? on the application, should I say "yes" or "no" to the questions asking about any violation to the honor code? i wasnt found guilty b/c i didnt follow through with the hearing...?

your help is much appreciated...thanks again in advance

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[LizzyM]

If your transcript has "academic integrity" spelled out on it and you don't check the box, I peer into my crystal ball and see trouble ahead because you have compounded cheating with lying about it on the application.

Did you violate the honor code?

Most honest people would say, "yes, you did." It doesn't matter that you weren't "found guilty". You violated the code and you admit that you did. Everything else is blather. Owe up to it.

P.S. You are screwed.

 

[Scrubz67]

"Yes", you have a violation of the honor code (at least according to the university you went to).

In general, any marks on your transcript regarding sanctions, citations or academic integrity translates to the university deeming that you were indeed seen in violation of some sort of conduct.

I believe the whole point of going through a hearing is to keep that mark from appearing on your transcript (aka "permanent record"). Refusing a hearing or leaving, for most schools is an admission of guilt for all intents and purposes, since they put the mark on your transcript.

 

[jeg5q]

Alright, this is a sensitive topic, I know, but I would like frank feedback, no criticism please. I have read a lot on SDN and I think this is the best tool for any pre-health professional, so once again, please keep it clean ...

Ill make this as short as I can

Heres the deal: For one of my classes, lets call it Math, our final assignment was a project to solve a problem, but it required a lot of time and knowledge collected from the past semester. I was bogged down with a lot of other finals (microbio, biochem, histology, all that good stuff, and I was teaching on the weekend fulltime), so I emailed a "mathematician" online and asked for his help. The mathematician informed my prof that I was cheating, and then my prof wanted to expell me (hes very anal about cheating). Anyway, I decided to leave without following through with the hearing and all, and I transferred to another univesity, and finished my degree there.

dont ask me why i left and didnt follow through, basically he was determined to fail me and expell me, he wanted to make an example out of me to other students, he told me straight to my face...so dont ask or criticize or lecture, just simple advice please...

The problem: as a result of leaving the university, my transcript has has an "Incomplete" for the class, and there is a tiny notation at the top of the transcript saying "Academic integrity - ###-###-#### (phone number)

SO what do i do? on the application, should I say "yes" or "no" to the questions asking about any violation to the honor code? i wasnt found guilty b/c i didnt follow through with the hearing...?

your help is much appreciated...thanks again in advance

Definitely put it on the application with a detailed explanation. Don't make excuses just explain what happened and detail what you have learned from your mistake. The bottom line is if you don't put it down and the school you matriculate to finds out the details you could be in trouble. The reality is that whatever school you attend they will request the transcript you are talking about and someone could take the time to call the school and find out what happened. Be honest, that's about it.

 

[ChuckRock]

You also should contact your former universities academic affairs office (or whatever dept handles these things) and find out what the notation means. I was on probation for an alchohol violation freshman year and called the judicial office for advice on whether or not to put it down. They were very familiar with the AMCAS application and instructed me what to do (don't put it down since it wasn't serious). They will be the people the medical schools contact so you should ask them.

 

[xSTALLiONx]

Alright, this is a sensitive topic, I know, but I would like frank feedback, no criticism please. I have read a lot on SDN and I think this is the best tool for any pre-health professional, so once again, please keep it clean ...

Ill make this as short as I can

Heres the deal: For one of my classes, lets call it Math, our final assignment was a project to solve a problem, but it required a lot of time and knowledge collected from the past semester. I was bogged down with a lot of other finals (microbio, biochem, histology, all that good stuff, and I was teaching on the weekend fulltime), so I emailed a "mathematician" online and asked for his help. The mathematician informed my prof that I was cheating, and then my prof wanted to expell me (hes very anal about cheating). Anyway, I decided to leave without following through with the hearing and all, and I transferred to another univesity, and finished my degree there.

dont ask me why i left and didnt follow through, basically he was determined to fail me and expell me, he wanted to make an example out of me to other students, he told me straight to my face...so dont ask or criticize or lecture, just simple advice please...

The problem: as a result of leaving the university, my transcript has has an "Incomplete" for the class, and there is a tiny notation at the top of the transcript saying "Academic integrity - ###-###-#### (phone number)

SO what do i do? on the application, should I say "yes" or "no" to the questions asking about any violation to the honor code? i wasnt found guilty b/c i didnt follow through with the hearing...?

your help is much appreciated...thanks again in advance

just admit to it and hope that they forgive you..
as a side note, apply to osteopathic schools and even add a carribean or two in there ... JUST to be safe..

 

[jeg5q]

P.S. You are screwed.

I think that is a little harsh.

To the OP: Just be honest. Not every applicant has an easy time getting into med school. One mistake is not the end. Good luck applying.

 

[cher25]

Alright, this is a sensitive topic, I know, but I would like frank feedback, no criticism please. I have read a lot on SDN and I think this is the best tool for any pre-health professional, so once again, please keep it clean ...

I worked at a med school for a year and during that time, a student at the end of his third year at their med school was expelled because they found out that he had lied on his med school application about something. They kicked him out one year from graduation!!!! Apparently someone he knew anonymously turned him in. I don't know what the violation was but in any event, don't lie, it'll come back to haunt you in the end.

 

[Caribou]

I think that is a little harsh.

To the OP: Just be honest. Not every applicant has an easy time getting into med school. One mistake is not the end. Good luck applying.

I agree, nobody's perfect.

I would say put yes though since you did violate the conduct code. I agree that you should definitely explain what you learned from your mistake.

good luck. If you want it bad enough I bet you'll eventually get in somewhere, but don't be too shaken if it doesn't happen the first time you apply. You're really going to have to show you want it and you've learned something from the experience.

 

[LizzyM]

I think that is a little harsh.

To the OP: Just be honest. Not every applicant has an easy time getting into med school. One mistake is not the end. Good luck applying.

One mistake is not the end but violating the honor code and running rather than facing the music says something about the applicant's character. Now he wants to hide and deny rather than disclose his previous behavior. That too says something about character.

If his application were to be on my desk, I wouldn't grant an interview.

Read "Chapter two, Error, rank and responsibility" in Charles L. Bosk's landmark book Forgive and Remember Managing Medical Failure Technical and judgmental errors can be forgiven but in surgical training programs normative errors (failure to discharge role obligations conscientiously) show one to lack prudence & reasonableness.

 

[jeg5q]

One mistake is not the end but violating the honor code and running rather than facing the music says something about the applicant's character. Now he wants to hide and deny rather than disclose his previous behavior. That too says something about character.

If his application were to be on my desk, I wouldn't grant an interview.

Read "Chapter two, Error, rank and responsibility" in Charles L. Bosk's landmark book Forgive and Remember Managing Medical Failure Technical and judgmental errors can be forgiven but in surgical training programs normative errors (failure to discharge role obligations conscientiously) show one to lack prudence & reasonableness.

Sorry Lizzy, I would tend to disagree with you. If I were ever involved with admissions I would like to think that I would be openminded enough to at least consider an applicant with such a violation on their transcript (especially if it is early on in their academic career and they show a very high degree of learning from their mistake). Personally I would think that someone who has experienced something like this would have a lot to bring to the table assuming they have grown from it. I just wanted the OP to know that his chances for med school weren't over, something the premed community (including advisors), are overly apt to do when someone makes a mistake.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, one must be ready to take each application and make a fair and reasoned decision. I've recommended interviews of applicants with violations and I've recommended that others not be interviewed. I'm saying that if the violation before me was what the OP wrote "Here's the deal...", I would not recommend interview.

The OP does not, to me, indicate any learning from his mistakes. He'd like to cover-up the transgression and not mention it on the application but he's afraid that the "Academic Integrity: phone # ___" is going to give him away. It will, and when it does, he may be three years into school, $$$ in debt and out on his butt.

 

[shiraz84]

Sorry Lizzy, I would tend to disagree with you. If I were ever involved with admissions I would like to think that I would be openminded enough to at least consider an applicant with such a violation on their transcript (especially if it is early on in their academic career and they show a very high degree of learning from their mistake). Personally I would think that someone who has experienced something like this would have a lot to bring to the table assuming they have grown from it. I just wanted the OP to know that his chances for med school weren't over, something the premed community (including advisors), are overly apt to do when someone makes a mistake.

Like most have said, just fully explain the situation and remember to say that you've learned from the experience, so that the adcoms don't have to assume anything. Be prepared to talk about it during your interview, as well.

 

[shiraz84]

Yes, one must be ready to take each application and make a fair and reasoned decision. I've recommended interviews of applicants with violations and I've recommended that others not be interviewed. I'm saying that if the violation before me was what the OP wrote "Here's the deal...", I would not recommend interview.

The OP does not, to me, indicate any learning from his mistakes. He'd like to cover-up the transgression and not mention it on the application but he's afraid that the "Academic Integrity: phone # ___" is going to give him away. It will, and when it does, he may be three years into school, $$$ in debt and out on his butt.

That is a good point, as well. I wonder, would the OP even have posted this if the transcript didn't have the "Academic Integrity" number at the top? Or would he/she have tried to pretend like it never happened? Hmm...

 

[jeg5q]

Yes, one must be ready to take each application and make a fair and reasoned decision. I've recommended interviews of applicants with violations and I've recommended that others not be interviewed. I'm saying that if the violation before me was what the OP wrote "Here's the deal...", I would not recommend interview.

The OP does not, to me, indicate any learning from his mistakes. He'd like to cover-up the transgression and not mention it on the application but he's afraid that the "Academic Integrity: phone # ___" is going to give him away. It will, and when it does, he may be three years into school, $$$ in debt and out on his butt.

I didn't presume to guage his intentions from such a short explanation/question. I just wanted to point out to him that in order to have any chance he should explain himself and be honest and discuss what he has learned. Just wanted to be positive.

 

[Loco Loki]

What a freakin' bastard, emailing your prof. Warnings are always nice, and it isn't like you lied to the math guy (you had to have told him who you were, what class you were in, ect). You asked for help as well, not a solution (from what I gather). In anycase, just tell them what you did; that is the best course of action. Asking for 'help', if that is all you did instead of asking for an outright solution, is harmless.

On a tangent, my dad is an extremely intellegent engineer. I also have really intellegent friends who are also in grad school from math or engineering. Therefore, I have an unfair advantage; I wouldn't need to know to an unknown mathematician, I'd just ask my pal while we are playin' starcraft is he had any ideas about the problem. It's not like my friends/family would turn me in. Giving a take home assignment like that is idiotic; you were just unlucky, and I'm sure the adcoms would see that.

 

[buddha123]

lizzy - i am not here to argue with you or listen to your moral judgement in a pathetic attempt to peg me as some kind of "bad man who should never be accepted to med school" - i made a mistake, i f*ked up, i know, and I am more than happy to explain myself - to the the adcoms, not you - when it comes time for an interview

xstallionx - i actually did apply to both SGU and ROSS last year and got accepted, but decided not to go....interesting enough, i answered "no" when i applied...but then again they are carribean schools...so who knows, right?

to everyone else - i really appreciate your advice and help, i do not want this thread to turn into a forum for me to gain sympathy, I just want every1's frank and honest opinion...but just so know, and for my own edification, i made a mistake, and i admit it, and there is no doubt that I have learned from it...but once again, i am not here to explain myself, just present the facts and gain some insight ... thanks again