Hopkins Path

[Supersheep]

I saw that at least one person on this forum matched at Hopkins this year and was wondering how people felt about it as a program? In terms of experiences gained and training, is it more or less similar to the Harvard system? So very much to learn here (must keep reading posts...) Thanks!!

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[b&ierstiefel]

I thought that Hopkins was a fantastic program. I've posted about how positively I felt about this program before. Where is that damn post of mine....but anyway, the residents there are really cool and there is a lot of camaraderie within the resident group as well as between the residents and faculty. This was definitely apparent to me during my interview visit and also during my second visit. The faculty there are dedicated to teaching and they see some awesome material. Residents see tons of consult cases there too. Definitely a top-notch program.

Harvard system? Harvard had a system? Harvard has 3 affiliated programs (MGH, BWH, and BIDMC) and they all do things a bit differently.

 

[LADoc00]

I thought that Hopkins was a fantastic program. I've posted about how positively I felt about this program before. Where is that damn post of mine....but anyway, the residents there are really cool and there is a lot of camaraderie within the resident group as well as between the residents and faculty. This was definitely apparent to me during my interview visit and also during my second visit. The faculty there are dedicated to teaching and they see some awesome material. Residents see tons of consult cases there too. Definitely a top-notch program.

Harvard system? Harvard had a system? Harvard has 3 affiliated programs (MGH, BWH, and BIDMC) and they all do things a bit differently.

Hopkins is solid. Epstein stands up for pathologists and path residents. And by himself could beat all over Mayo as if they were whiney 12 year old girls. Seriously, if there was a rumble at USCAP, Hopkins would meat out the beat downs.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hopkins is solid. Epstein stands up for pathologists and path residents. And by himself could beat all over Mayo as if they were whiney 12 year old girls. Seriously, if there was a rumble at USCAP, Hopkins would meat out the beat downs.

Totally man, Epstein is the bomb. It seems that a lot of places have that one big pathology guru type of guy. I wonder who would win out in a steel cage match between Epstein, Fletcher, Appelman, Krausz, ______, ______, etc. (I'm tired and can't think up any more names but I'm sure there are more names to add to this Battle Royale).

 

[Supersheep]

Totally man, Epstein is the bomb. It seems that a lot of places have that one big pathology guru type of guy. I wonder who would win out in a steel cage match between Epstein, Fletcher, Appelman, Krausz, ______, ______, etc. (I'm tired and can't think up any more names but I'm sure there are more names to add to this Battle Royale).

So maybe we should start the Pathology Guru version of Celebrity Death Match?? I mean, Tanya Harding, OJ Simpspon- ha! They so have nothing on these guys And sorry, I was thinking more BW (should have been more specific)

 

[LADoc00]

Totally man, Epstein is the bomb. It seems that a lot of places have that one big pathology guru type of guy. I wonder who would win out in a steel cage match between Epstein, Fletcher, Appelman, Krausz, ______, ______, etc. (I'm tired and can't think up any more names but I'm sure there are more names to add to this Battle Royale).

I know both Fletcher and Epstein and Epstein would knock his teeth out on the first swing. Dunno, think that might finish Chris. I really only see a Louis Dehner-type of ex-Drill Instructorish Surg Path director going to head-to-head with him.

Dehner would brawl tho, they might even fight so hard they would come close to killing each other.

The dermatopathologists would run and hide in the corner, crying and clinging to each other like monkeys, Bernie Ackerman leading the way.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I know both Fletcher and Epstein and Epstein would knock his teeth out on the first swing. Dunno, think that might finish Chris. I really only see a Louis Dehner-type of ex-Drill Instructorish Surg Path director going to head-to-head with him.

Dehner would brawl tho, they might even fight so hard they would come close to killing each other.

The dermatopathologists would run and hide in the corner, crying and clinging to each other like monkeys, Bernie Ackerman leading the way.

Dude, you just made me spit out beer with that dermpath bit .

 

[b&ierstiefel]

And sorry, I was thinking more BW (should have been more specific)

BWH and Hopkins have a lot of similarities when it comes down to the anatomic pathology training. But there are some subtle differences between the two programs. Let's take AP/CP training for instance. At Hopkins, AP and CP rotations are intermingled throughout the 4 years of training. At Brigham, all residents do two years of dedicated AP training upfront for the first two years of their residency training. After the two year AP core training, people branch off. Some people do CP. Some people do AP subspecialty fellowship. Some people go straight to research. At Hopkins, the path to the postdoc research is a little more circuitous but not by much really. At Brigham, you can incorporate postdoc research as soon as after the 2nd year of AP core training. However, I feel that many people don't do this...you really can't do much clinical work in pathology with just two years of AP training...maybe limited to just signing out autopsies. I think most AP only people at Brigham will do a year of subspecialty training after the 2 year AP core and have that mesh with postdoc training (if they are research inclined of course). That way they can incorporate some aspect of subspecialty surg path signout into their careers.

Is this the kind of answer you were looking for Supersheep or is there anything else you'd like to know.

 

[geddy]

I had a really hard time deciding between the Brigham and Hopkins. They are both great places to train - high quality residents, strong faculty, good atmosphere overall. I made a list of the two comparing them before I my rank list to help decide, but it didn't help much. Here's what I remember about Hopkins.

1) Andy's point about the structuring of the training is important - mixing AP/CP is good if yor going into practice but maybe not good if you're going into academia. 2) Hopkins does their signout in one giant room. I thought this would be really crazy and loud, but it wasn't - there was a lot of interaction among the different groups. 3) They have a beautiful new grossing room in the cancer hospital for grossing - very spacious. 4) Hopkins has scheduled didactics several times a week, at 7:30 AM - good if you like didactics, bad if you dislike mornings. 5) Hopkins residents spend time at an offsite hospital - again, good if you want an experience as a general pathologist, bad if you are really interested in academia. Overall, it didn't seem that as many people from Hopkins went into academia as the Brigham. I'm not sure it this is actually true or not.

One really nice thing about Hopkins is that Baltimore is much more affordable than Boston. For me, the programs were both so strong, it came down to other factors - where my wife wanted to live and what my gut told me. After my interview at the Brigham, I just knew it was where I wanted to go. It just felt right. I made second visits to both programs, though, just to make sure.

So, in summary, Hopkins was my number 2 spot, but I would have been very happy to go there. The difference between my number 1 and 2 was slight.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Overall, it didn't seem that as many people from Hopkins went into academia as the Brigham.

I got this impression as well, geddy. But it's just an impression and could have been a false one. One resident there said something along the lines of, "here, you're gonna see so much cool pathology, you may end up wanting to do diagnostic pathology instead of research." Huh? Wait, I don't wanna be converted! Also, in terms of postdoc research, Hopkins strongly strongly urges you to do a postdoc IN the department of pathology. I think you need special permission from some committee (who is responsible for giving you a year of research support while you write up a K08 during your first year of research) if you want to do your postdoc OUTSIDE the pathology department. I don't know how strict this restriction is but nonetheless, it was a bit of a turn-off for me, honestly. And three years from now, I certainly didn't want to be told, "Oh you can't work in this hot-shot's lab because he isn't affiliated with our department." Everywhere else I had visited, the programs supported your postdoc for anywhere from 1-3 years regardless of the lab in which you ended up.

After my interview at the Brigham, I just knew it was where I wanted to go. It just felt right. I made second visits to both programs, though, just to make sure.

I felt the same way dude.

So, in summary, Hopkins was my number 2 spot, but I would have been very happy to go there. The difference between my number 1 and 2 was slight.

Although Hopkins was #5, I would have been happy to go there as well. At the same time, I knew I wouldn't go below Hopkins on my rank list so I felt pretty comfortable overall after Feb. 23rd.

 

[Supersheep]

Thank you so much for all of the information and insight- it is all such a tough decision (not meaning to preach to the choir here )- maybe doing an elective this fall at one or the other would be helpful? Not having had a ton of exposure to the world of pathology outside of the community hospital setting (my medical school does not have a path residency, nor really a pathology department), there is so much uncharted territory and not many people around here who know much about it. Thanks again, it is much appreciated!!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Thank you so much for all of the information and insight- it is all such a tough decision (not meaning to preach to the choir here )- maybe doing an elective this fall at one or the other would be helpful? Not having had a ton of exposure to the world of pathology outside of the community hospital setting (my medical school does not have a path residency, nor really a pathology department), there is so much uncharted territory and not many people around here who know much about it. Thanks again, it is much appreciated!!

Yeah, I dunno know if or how many people do away rotations at the Brigham...I guess I'll find out by sheer observation during the upcoming year.

I do know for sure that people do away rotations at Hopkins. They must have some formal mechanism set up for folks who want to spend a month or two there.

 

[inspector2005]

Thank you so much for all of the information and insight- it is all such a tough decision (not meaning to preach to the choir here )- maybe doing an elective this fall at one or the other would be helpful? Not having had a ton of exposure to the world of pathology outside of the community hospital setting (my medical school does not have a path residency, nor really a pathology department), there is so much uncharted territory and not many people around here who know much about it. Thanks again, it is much appreciated!!

I did an away rotation at Hopkins at Bayview hospital (which is their satellite community hospital) and had a great experience there back in the fall. I debated between rotating at either the main campus in East Baltimore or at Bayview and chose Bayview due to its closer commute for me (my parents live in the Baltimore area) and also to get a feel for how a path program at a community hosipital operates. Since you indicated that you've had previous experience mostly in a community hospital you may be more interested in spending time at Hopkins main academic center (although you can split time between the main hospital and Bayview like another rotating student did when I was there) Anyway, I can at the very least give you the perspective at rotating at Bayview.

Prior to my rotation there, my previous interaction with surg path consisted mostly of watching the resident gross in specimens then sitting behind the multi-headed scope during signout with the attending. At Bayview, I was given the opportunities to actually gross in specimens, not just routine things like gall bladders and appendices but substantial specimens like prostates, nephrectomies, and bowel resections. Plus I got to preview the slides of my own cases plus a few biopsies as well and sign them out with the attending, essentially functioning like a junior resident. It basically represented the first time that I sat behind a scope looking at a tray of unknown slides and had to come up with the preliminary diagnosis which of course is intimidating at first!! Luckily you get use to it (better now then during you first few weeks of path residency!) You also can help the resident with performing autopsies which occur on average once or twice a week, as well as signing out those cases with the attendings. The residents and attendings were great to work with and you can spend some time at the main campus for morning didactic lectures and weekly grand rounds. Overall, it was definitely the best path rotation that I did as a 4th year and as a result I ranked Hopkins much higher on my list.

Much to my delight, in the last week of my rotation, I received an interview offer from Hopkins for a date in January, right before the end of their interview cycle. The interview went well, and I went into match day ranking Hopkins as number #1 on my list and kept in contact with the PD. Although I subsequently did not wind up matching at Hopkins, I still feel very satisfied about the month that I spent there. If you go to the Hopkins pathology website, they'll have a link for student electives you can look through for more info. The cons of rotating at Hopkins would include the $250 fee they charge for rotating through (which is definitely on the high end) and also the housing situation which is also costly and may not be guaranteed (though this was not a problem for me since I simply commuted from home) There is also a requirement to give around a 30 minute presentation of any clinical problem or entity of your own interest but this isn't too bad. However, there shouldn't be a problem with choosing dates or fitting the dates into your school's schedule.

Hope this helps and good luck with your application!