Hours as patient as observation hours?

[DesertPT]

Hey all,

I will have been to probably 60hrs of physical therapy appointments as a patient. Is there any reason why I can't have the PT's verify these as observation hours (I will probably also shadow with my current PT)?

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[Dragon416]

I had a traumatic brain injury and 10 months of rehabilitation, yet a wide variety of schools told me that didn't count. However, there are a few that accept, just got to look.

 

[obeshy]

I would say no, because they are not observation hours. However, like Dragon416 said, you may want to check with whatever program you are applying to. That will be your best source of information, directly from the program/university.

 

[jballa4]

All of the schools that I applied to also said no, but Dang I wish my PT hours counted! I went through ACL and meniscus surgery a couple years back and that woulda added an easy 100hrs to my resume! But it would probably be good to mention that within your essay!

 

[DesertPT]

I find that to be a bit bogus, because I am in the same gym watching the same PT treat multiple patients including myself, regardless of whether I am there as a patient or an "observer". But what can ya do...

 

[ajcp13]

I find that to be a bit bogus, because I am in the same gym watching the same PT treat multiple patients including myself, regardless of whether I am there as a patient or an "observer". But what can ya do...

Well... At one of the clinics where I observed, the head PT said he would sign off hours if you were there as a patient, but he wouldn't specify them as that, he'd just include them with your other hours. I was never injured but a few of my peers were and were able to take advantage of that. So, I think it's all up to the pt and what they consider observation hours.

 

[DesertPT]

Well ya I assume if the PT just verifies that you did x number of total hours nobody will ever really know the difference...I just don't want to do anything dishonest...

 

[sabino3]

If the PT will sign off on it, why not? Observation hours are so boring. I would have rather done rehab work over observation hours. You usually just sit there or grab hot/cold packs for them. Approach the PT and ask. The PT just checks boxes and writes a blurb about you on PTCAS or other paper forms. I did over 200 hrs of observation and maybe got 15-20 hrs of knowledge. The PT is usually too busy to explain what they are doing while they are doing it.

 

[DesertPT]

I asked NAU if hours as a patient can be counted as part of the total observation hours and they said "unfortunately not, but it would be a good talking point during an interview". As that is by far my first choice program, I guess that kind of settles the issue. :/

I'm sure if I also shadow the same PT who has treated me she would happily total it up with the hours I was there as a patient and sign off, but I wouldn't fell good going knowingly against the program's policy.

If the PT will sign off on it, why not? Observation hours are so boring. I would have rather done rehab work over observation hours. You usually just sit there or grab hot/cold packs for them. Approach the PT and ask. The PT just checks boxes and writes a blurb about you on PTCAS or other paper forms. I did over 200 hrs of observation and maybe got 15-20 hrs of knowledge. The PT is usually too busy to explain what they are doing while they are doing it.

I agree with you in the sense that I think doing anything above/beyond 100hrs in maybe 4 different settings is unnecessary if the goal of requiring/considering observation hours as part of the application package is to show that you have "exposure to the PT profession". If you have spent 3 or 4 days each in 3 or 4 different types of PT facilities (and in my case been a patient in PT in 3 different types of facilities) I think you are reasonably well-exposed at that point. These schools that have recommendations or sometimes even requirements of 250+ hours is over the top. It's like weeding down the applicant pool by determining who happened to have had the most free time during undergrad. I don't know how people do that w/o working as a tech and counting it as hours. I personally am not in a financial situation to spend more that 80-100 hours of the time I have available outside of school and other appointments to be hanging around without getting paid.

 

[DesertPT]

double post

 

[DesertPT]

Just doing the 100 hours recommended by a lot of programs could cost me at least $1200 in lost income depending on how I schedule it. It's not that I don't want to do it or am not interested, or that I don't see any value in it, but I don't think poor students should be required to do any more than that.

One of the reasons why I like NAU is that they do appear in their literature to emphasize GRE score and GPA most heavily, with LORs and personal statement next. They don't really mention hours when they say what goes into the application decision but PTCAS says the recommend 100hr. Is this the case for a lot of programs?

 

[sabino3]

I asked NAU if hours as a patient can be counted as part of the total observation hours and they said "unfortunately not, but it would be a good talking point during an interview". As that is by far my first choice program, I guess that kind of settles the issue. :/

I'm sure if I also shadow the same PT who has treated me she would happily total it up with the hours I was there as a patient and sign off, but I wouldn't fell good going knowingly against the program's policy.



I agree with you in the sense that I think doing anything above/beyond 100hrs in maybe 4 different settings is unnecessary if the goal of requiring/considering observation hours as part of the application package is to show that you have "exposure to the PT profession". If you have spent 3 or 4 days each in 3 or 4 different types of PT facilities (and in my case been a patient in PT in 3 different types of facilities) I think you are reasonably well-exposed at that point. These schools that have recommendations or sometimes even requirements of 250+ hours is over the top. It's like weeding down the applicant pool by determining who happened to have had the most free time during undergrad. I don't know how people do that w/o working as a tech and counting it as hours. I personally am not in a financial situation to spend more that 80-100 hours of the time I have available outside of school and other appointments to be hanging around without getting paid.

"Lucky" for me, I was unemployed for a year and I could be somewhere without getting paid. I enjoyed the 1st 20 hrs. The inpatient setting I went to was so insanely tedious. The therapists at hospital did not want me there. I watched them walk geriatrics all day and sit silently while they did paperwork. It was an enriching 40 hours.

 

[DesertPT]

It seems to me like the whole observation hours part of the application process is becoming too much a way to simply try to use a number to "one-up" other applicants, and too little a way to actually show how sincere you are about being a PT. Any idiot can stand around and watch a PT fill out paperwork.

If I was king of PT, I think it would make sense that schools do something like requiring 45hrs of PT observation in 3 settings as a prerequisite to admission, and saying that hours above this number will not be considered. Then everyone would still be well exposed to the profession before entering grad school, and the playing field would be leveled so that applicants could be judged more on their abilities as a student and less on their schedules.

 

[sabino3]

Just doing the 100 hours recommended by a lot of programs could cost me at least $1200 in lost income depending on how I schedule it. It's not that I don't want to do it or am not interested, or that I don't see any value in it, but I don't think poor students should be required to do any more than that.

One of the reasons why I like NAU is that they do appear in their literature to emphasize GRE score and GPA most heavily, with LORs and personal statement next. They don't really mention hours when they say what goes into the application decision but PTCAS says the recommend 100hr. Is this the case for a lot of programs?

Most programs are requiring 100-200 hrs. Some want 40-80 hrs. I would say the average is 100 required hours. It was a grind for sure. I did 200+.

 

[sabino3]

It seems to me like the whole observation hours part of the application process is becoming too much a way to simply try to use a number to "one-up" other applicants, and too little a way to actually show how sincere you are about being a PT.

You applying to Midwestern and AT Still?

 

[DesertPT]

You applying to Midwestern and AT Still?

Maybe, haven't quite decided yet. $100k for the degree is kinda hard to swallow when NAU is $40k.

 

[sabino3]

Maybe, haven't quite decided yet. $100k for the degree is kinda hard to swallow when NAU is $40k.

I am from Cali but lived in Glendale for 2 years doing my prereqs at GCC. I forgot they charged so much. I heard Texas schools are cheap, even for out of state students.

 

[DesertPT]

They are cheaper ya, but don't use PTCAS so applying is a major pain. And typically public universities only take a couple of out of state students a year. I suppose the privates that are in Texas may be a bit cheaper, I don't know what the deal with this no PTCAS thing is.

 

[sabino3]

They are cheaper ya, but don't use PTCAS so applying is a major pain. And typically public universities only take a couple of out of state students a year. I suppose the privates that are in Texas may be a bit cheaper, I don't know what the deal with this no PTCAS thing is.

Who knows? The whole state does weird things. Haha!

 

[a7rcana]

There is definitely something to be gleaned by getting PT treatment but I'm not sure I would say it's the same as getting observation hours. Though, if there are places that accept hours receiving treatment as observation hours I would encourage you to use them, as I know how difficult it can be to slough through the required hours.

I've also experienced PT (for a bum ankle) and I know that during the process you should be focused on your own exercises and patient goals. I wasn't exactly paying attention to what was going on around me - more on listening to the therapist and trying to feel what movements hurt, what didn't, paying attention to how my body was responding and communicating this. Again, how can you really say you are shadowing someone when he/she goes around the corner to talk to or work with another patient and you are there doing your own exercises? I think it's smart to use these experiences as something to bring up during essays or interview processes where you can speak to how your relationship with your therapist inspired you or made you aware of the personal nature of PT care giving. I had personal conversations with my therapist and realized that was the type of relationship I wanted to have with my future patients.

Any idiot can stand around and watch a PT fill out paperwork.

Right, but this shouldn't be anyone's attitude coming into observations. You aren't there to watch someone fill out paperwork - you're there to gain an understanding of the profession, pick the therapist's brain, ask them tough questions - 'What frustrates you the most about your job?' etc, be as involved as you can possibly be in dealing with patients, speak with the patients while they are doing their exercise, demo exercises, ask the PT to quiz you on parts of the body. If you don't have time to amass a large quantity of hours, focus on the quality of your hours. Get the minimum required hours and make sure you stand out as a really great observer who is absolutely passionate and curious about the profession. I didn't do a crazy amount of hours but got very involved in the process at a with a particular outpatient PT and he wrote me a really damn good recommendation. This will help your application more than just standing around for 300+ hours.

 

[DesertPT]

Again, how can you really say you are shadowing someone when he/she goes around the corner to talk to or work with another patient and you are there doing your own exercises?

If you were in the clinic as an observer for 1 hour and the PT only had one patient during that time, you would still count that as an observation hour. When I am there as a patient I am learning all about how hip disorders are treated and while I am doing my own exercises I am watching and listening to the other PT's in the gym treating other patients and learning about the exercises that are being prescribed for other types of problems. The nature of being a PT patient will vary widely from case to case and not all applicants would have had a reason to be a patient in PT, so I can see why schools don't want to count it. But it's still kinda irritating because for me observing or being a patient at my clinic accomplishes essentially the same thing.

...this shouldn't be anyone's attitude coming into observations. You aren't there to watch someone fill out paperwork - you're there to gain an understanding of the profession...

Absolutely. My point was that the "wow this is kinda interesting, I think this is something I want to do myself" and the "getting familiar with the profession" experiences could be accomplished fairly well in 10-15 hours at each of 3 or 4 locations. Spending an additional several hundred hours hanging out at a PT clinic when you could be working or being productive, just so you can beat somebody else's "high score" who is competing for your spot in a program is bogus.