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scummie said:
Where I am now in the NE, get $170 an hour. Not bad right? Totally justifies the seven years of training after college and the stress, personal sacrifice, etc. Maybe I should have gone to aesthetician school. $130 an hour for a facial. No one dies, there’s nice music and candles. No yelling. Add gratuity and that’s pretty close to $170/hour.
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Yup that's what I was offered for FT in NE too which is why I'm a traveler.
 
What a shame how Texas has changed in 2 yrs.

It went from finding a job almost everywhere (Except Austin) to all major 4 cities being saturated.

Reason
1. Proliferation of MLs. Even if volume goes up, they just hire ML and not MDs to keep the MDs at 2-2.25pph
2. FCER and Neigbors closing FSERs all over the place. FCER closed 4 in Austin this month
3. Hospital Closures including Harvey
4. CMGs opening residencies left and right

There will be an equilibrium, I am just not sure when.

Pay is still good but not Great. I am just glad I am on the downswing of my career and not beginning b/c I have no clue where this equilibrium will be.
 
If you're willing to be an employee for a few years, there are non-predatory SDGs with single level partnership (i.e. actual partners) with pay $270-300/hr and
It really seems like the bubble has burst, which sucks. Boo.[/QUOTE]
 
Tenk said:
No you can’t. Wife is a nurse. They make on average about 25-40$/hr.
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Everyone can just dump anecdotes all they want. PRN RNs at my shop make six figures. The reality is nursing pay is incredibly varied.
 
Rekt said:
Everyone can just dump anecdotes all they want. PRN RNs at my shop make six figures. The reality is nursing pay is incredibly varied.
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I have no doubt that you can find a high $/hr nursing job SOMEWHERE, but to casually throw it out like they are paying those rates all over the place is completely not true. I quoted a statistical fact, not an anecdote.

Imo all ED nurses should make over 6 figures with the crap they have to put up with.
 
The vast majority of nurses do not make 6 figures unless they are doing alot of overtime or in an unusual situation/city.

I know EM docs who make 800K/yr but the vast majority does not get close to that.
 
Someone I know just took a starting nursing job (in an area of the country that pays well for nurses) for 50/hr.
 
Tenk said:
I have no doubt that you can find a high $/hr nursing job SOMEWHERE, but to casually throw it out like they are paying those rates all over the place is completely not true. I quoted a statistical fact, not an anecdote.

Imo all ED nurses should make over 6 figures with the crap they have to put up with.
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Sure. Then why would anyone bother with medical school? We would need a raise, too. Nurses are already better paid than we are considering they only need a two year degree.
 
$325/hr x 12 hr shifts x 17 = 800K. These docs did this for years. I could barely do it for a month. Not easy but possible just like the 150K nursing jobs with bunch of overtime and time and a half.

When the Bonuses were avail, I was offered $325/hr x12 hr +$2500 Bonus. 100K for 15 shifts a month.
 
You guys are in EM are getting paid too much money. I am jealous.🙁
 
emergentmd said:
$325/hr x 12 hr shifts x 17 = 800K. These docs did this for years. I could barely do it for a month. Not easy but possible just like the 150K nursing jobs with bunch of overtime and time and a half.

When the Bonuses were avail, I was offered $325/hr x12 hr +$2500 Bonus. 100K for 15 shifts a month.
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Was this a CMG in TX? That's nuts.
 
emergentmd said:
$325/hr x 12 hr shifts x 17 = 800K. These docs did this for years. I could barely do it for a month. Not easy but possible just like the 150K nursing jobs with bunch of overtime and time and a half.

When the Bonuses were avail, I was offered $325/hr x12 hr +$2500 Bonus. 100K for 15 shifts a month.
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Actually, the 150k a year nursing jobs of which I am aware don't require OT, just shift differentials.
 
Splenda88 said:
You guys are in EM are getting paid too much money. I am jealous.🙁
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Not for long. Most areas tightening up except places no one wants to live like AL, LA, MS. CMGs still rampant and getting worse. New residencies opening monthly. It's easy to sit on the outside and look in at our "shift life", but the switchbacks from nights and days are brutal, among many other things, that can only be experienced first hand.
 
Rekt said:
Not for long. Most areas tightening up except places no one wants to live like AL, LA, MS. CMGs still rampant and getting worse. New residencies opening monthly. It's easy to sit on the outside and look in at our "shift life", but the switchbacks from nights and days are brutal, among many other things, that can only be experienced first hand.
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Can't be worse than IM...
 
Splenda88 said:
You guys are in EM are getting paid too much money. I am jealous.🙁
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No, us in EM do not get paid too much... Don’t be misled. Those high rates are rare unicorn rates. Every specialty has those.

I can give you anecdotal rates in other specialties that make those mentioned EM rates pale in comparison. I know a friend who had an offer to work as a retina subspecialist that would pay $1.4 mil annually in South Dakota.

Even IM. At one of my locums sites not too long ago they were advertising a hospitalist position for $500k first year. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. 8 hours/day weekdays. Weekends only do morning rounds. That was at a critical access hospital site.

Don’t even get me started on some of the crazier offers for interventional cardiology
 
cyanide12345678 said:
Nurses or nurse practitioners? Don't tell me nurses with an associates degree or a Bsn can make ~ 100/hr or more. That's ridiculous.
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Nurses. I believe starting salary in much of Northern California is about 120k a year for bedside nurses.

A nurse from my department went to Sacramento and was earning $95 an hour as a traveller, plus paid health insurance and housing. My SIL is an x-ray tech in California and makes 120k a year in a reasonably priced area. Both nurse and tech have community college degrees. Much better ROI than EM, and much better job security. Oh, and the xray tech also gets a full pension, five weeks paid vacation, health insurance that's 100% paid and has minimal deductibles. And four months paid maternity (or paternity, as the case may be) leave. Insane. She will retire at 55 with a pension approaching 100k a year. Both these people started working when they were 20 and didn't have loans. We are fooling ourselves in medicine. It is underpaid and not worth it.
 
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TooMuchResearch said:
If you're willing to be an employee for a few years, there are non-predatory SDGs with single level partnership (i.e. actual partners) with pay $270-300/hr and
It really seems like the bubble has burst, which sucks. Boo.
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[/QUOTE]

Not in major metro areas of Texas. SDGs are shrinking/disappearing, and the ones that are around are doing almost zero hiring.
 
There are good jobs still around, but in areas most consider undesirable. 300-425/hr is possible but you gotta have the right set up and efficiencies and control. Democratic groups, not CMGs. Full, equal partners, not a bait and switch scheme. None advertise and it is all by word of mouth and connections. Bc they are SDGs there is risk in taking the job bc most of a "buy in" or sweat equity and they could lose their contracts at any time, but sometimes the risk is worth the reward. The coasts pay poorly and have high taxes. TX market is drying up and pay is going down. Gulf coast pays well, rural/upper midwest pays pretty well. WI, IN, SD/ND, etc. Private groups in these areas still do well. You just have to be willing to live in places most consider less desirable.
 
I never understand why the media, liberals, or anyone ever complain that someone makes too much money. Supply and demand is the only factor that drives your pay. No more and no less. Just because you do something that you feel is special doesn't mean others will find it special.

Why complain that CEOs makes 100Mil?
Why complain doctors make too much.

You never hear people complain that Hollywood stars make too much. I can care less what they make and if they make 100 mil a movie, more power to them. If someone is willing to pay someone $200 mil to star in a movie, should that actor feel bad and take less?

We all make what we are worth, no more and no less.

If tomorrow 10000 new EM docs gets boarded, my pay will drop. Why would any CMG want to pay me 400K when they can find one of the new docs to do it for 100K. That doesn't diminish my worth to society, it diminishes my demand.

I am not egotistical enough to believe that what I do is any more important than the pharmacy tech at CVS.
I screw up and someone could die. He screws up and someone could die.
I get paid more b/c there are much less of me than the pharm tech. That is the bottom line.
 
cyanide12345678 said:
Nurses or nurse practitioners? Don't tell me nurses with an associates degree or a Bsn can make ~ 100/hr or more. That's ridiculous.
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California state employed nurses. A few are CRNAs or administrators but many are clinical nurse positions in the Bay Area.


'Nurse' search results | Transparent California

Search California public, government employee, workers salaries, pensions and compensation
transparentcalifornia.com transparentcalifornia.com
 
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Only suckers like us waste time on medschool. Note how high the "base pay" salaries are- up to 536k.
 
nimbus said:
Hard work. How does a football coach make $3mil?
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A coach helps bring in millions of dollars to a franchise and can act as a fake liability fall guy for a crap team.

A nurse "cares for" half a patient an hour.

What kind of dumb comparison is that. There is no reason any nurse should make that much.
 
Hmm.. few spots of misinformation in this thread.

I work for USACS, formerly ESP.

If I recall correctly, USACS bought out ESP which had a lot of the Austin sites, not EMP.

The pay has remained about stable since taking over from ESP, they offer partnership after a vesting period. I have not yet seen distribution but if their claims are true, it's pretty decent.

I work in DFW area, but looked around a little.
USACS in Denver is terrible pay, I believe $125-140... that's pretty low especially since COL is pretty high but I guess people like it there.
USACS has a significant Ohio presence. I interviewed there in case I were to move from DFW and the sign on even for a transfer doctor like me was $150,000 and the pay was around $200-210 per hour with midlevels. I ended up not moving, long story. But had I moved, I think I would've been ok with it.

My pay right now is around $225/h plus benefits. So that total gross is likely $250/h. Now I hope it stays that way despite the surprise bill coming out... but who knows.

How I pad my income, I work at freestanding ERs for approx $220/h and do 24h shifts. I work between 2-3 24h shifts a month and about 14 8 hour shifts a month.

My advice to the OP looking in Houston, I think it is time to resign that you will likely work with a CMG group and know that you will likely get around low $200/h... don't expect the previous $300+/h rates, aint gonna happen... and actually if you looked at previous pay, $300 was likely rvu based meaning your pay fluctuated and you had no benefits or malpractice coverage (you had to pay for it) so really it was likely around $270/h w benefits... so don't be depressed (yet). Get your feet wet, feel comfortable at the hospital and then start looking for freestanding opportunities, network for sure as most of the jobs are actually word of mouth rather than posted as an ad. You may have to travel a little, but the pay makes it worth it. Work hard for the first 5 years, pay off your student loans, buy a reasonable house, no nice car at first.

And you will be far better off than most other EM docs or docs in general.

PM me for more info, I can talk on the phone too.

I've been out for 7 years.

My student loans are paid off and if all goes as planned, I can pay off my parents house in 1 year, and my house in 3 years.
 
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nimbus said:
California state employed nurses. A few are CRNAs or administrators but many are clinical nurse positions in the Bay Area.


'Nurse' search results | Transparent California

Search California public, government employee, workers salaries, pensions and compensation
transparentcalifornia.com transparentcalifornia.com
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WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.....

And they say doctors are overpaid?!?!?!?!? I can't believe I'm making the same as nurses after 4 years college, 4 years med school, and 3 years of residency. That's multiple years of lost income and inability to invest in retirement and not seeing compound growth of investments
 
Of course that’s in the Bay Area where even 700k won’t get you very far...
 
Listen2Savage said:


700k is overtime ? bro
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700k is chief nursing officer at UCLA. Most of the 300-400k nurses are clinical nurse III and clinical nurse IV positions. They’re experienced nurses with overtime and shift differentials.

If I happen to get sick or get hit by a bus in San Jose and get admitted to Valley Medical Center, I’m gonna need nurses to take care of me. That person might want a very modest 3 bedroom house in the area for their family. That’ll run them $1 mil.

We physicians need to get over ourselves and stop the belief that we are the only healthcare workers who deserve decent pay. Otherwise we will all be racing to the bottom to the glee of administrators.
 
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That’s a lot of money for a clinical nurse. How much is that per hour? Must be a huge overtime bonus.

Nurses seem to like middle management and admin jobs more than doctors, they also go to meetings more. I think this is a huge advantage for them when it comes to advocating for themselves. There is a huge nurse lobby and sometimes nursing unions.
 
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nimbus said:
We physicians need to get over ourselves and stop the belief that we are the only healthcare workers who deserve decent pay. Otherwise we will all be racing to the bottom to the glee of administrators.
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I don't disagree. But the physicians aren't making that much there. How do people work there?
 
Rekt said:
A coach helps bring in millions of dollars to a franchise and can act as a fake liability fall guy for a crap team.

A nurse "cares for" half a patient an hour.

What kind of dumb comparison is that. There is no reason any nurse should make that much.
Click to expand...


I only brought up football coaches because they are the highest paid California state employees. More than the governor. More the the president of the University of California. Shows where our priorities are.
 
nimbus said:
I only brought up football coaches because they are the highest paid California state employees. More than the governor. More the the president of the University of California. Shows where our priorities are.
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I've always thought it strange that people scream and cry about "greedy doctors" who might make 6 figures, but these same people have no issue with sports stars (useless to society) getting 7-8 figure salaries.
 
GeneralVeers said:
I've always thought it strange that people scream and cry about "greedy doctors" who might make 6 figures, but these same people have no issue with sports stars (useless to society) getting 7-8 figure salaries.
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People aren't going bankrupt because of sports paraphernalia they're forced to buy if they don't want to die.

If we want to win the public opinion debate on physician salaries, pointing fingers at other professions isn't going to help. Our focus should be on the financial sacrifices given to make it to that salary, the economic risks involved in the career path, and the benefit to society in incentivizing people to compete for a career in medicine.
 
emergentmd said:
What a shame how Texas has changed in 2 yrs.

It went from finding a job almost everywhere (Except Austin) to all major 4 cities being saturated.

Reason
1. Proliferation of MLs. Even if volume goes up, they just hire ML and not MDs to keep the MDs at 2-2.25pph
2. FCER and Neigbors closing FSERs all over the place. FCER closed 4 in Austin this month
3. Hospital Closures including Harvey
4. CMGs opening residencies left and right

There will be an equilibrium, I am just not sure when.

Pay is still good but not Great. I am just glad I am on the downswing of my career and not beginning b/c I have no clue where this equilibrium will be.
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While I understand the pay is not as great as it use to be 2-5 years ago, surely today's pay is still greater per hour than it was 10-20 years ago for ED docs?
 
Uranium678 said:
That’s a lot of money for a clinical nurse. How much is that per hour? Must be a huge overtime bonus.

Nurses seem to like middle management and admin jobs more than doctors, they also go to meetings more. I think this is a huge advantage for them when it comes to advocating for themselves. There is a huge nurse lobby and sometimes nursing unions.
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Lol. They loooooooooove to go to meetings.
 
GonnaBeADoc2222 said:
Lol. They loooooooooove to go to meetings.
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We have quarterly meetings where all these useless people come and talk to us. Most are nurses in middle management positions, and they just love it. They love powerpoint, and corporate-speak, and trivial nonsense. It's a non-stop hour of torture that makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
 
GeneralVeers said:
We have quarterly meetings where all these useless people come and talk to us. Most are nurses in middle management positions, and they just love it. They love powerpoint, and corporate-speak, and trivial nonsense. It's a non-stop hour of torture that makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
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In residency we actually had the chief Nursing officer come to give us EM residents a 4 hour long lecture on the Lean healthcare system and identifying waste in the ER. It went even worse than you might expect. It was non-stop corporate speak and mindless platitudes. By about the first hour every single one of us was on our phones or literally sleeping. She became upset with this, so she started calling on people to give their opinions. By the second or third resident called on every one after started giving incredibly sarcastic responses. Even our attendings were joining in on the shenanigans. It got to about 1.5 hours in that she stopped everything, handed us all a sheet of paper asking us how to better engage us in the topic. Apparently nearly every resident wrote something along the lines of “please end the lecture”. She cried, left, and we thankfully never received another lecture from nursing management the rest of our time in residency.
 
www.wsj.com

Doctors, Once GOP Stalwarts, Now More Likely to Be Democrats

The historic shift, driven by changes in the business of medicine and women entering the profession, comes with the overall movement of college-educated people to the Democratic Party. The realignment is changing where physicians live and work, how they treat patients and how they influence the...
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com


As young physicians have become more liberal, they are increasingly settling in urban areas filled with like-minded residents—a pattern that is true for many young professionals but is striking in medicine because it works against doctors’ financial interests. For primary care doctors, salaries in New York and Washington are among the lowest in the nation despite the cities’ high cost of living, according to Prof. Bonica.

Hilary E. Fairbrother, a Democrat, grew up in Helena, Mont., went to medical school in Atlanta and trained as an emergency physician in New York City. When it came time to find her first job, she spoke to a hospital in her hometown and learned she could start out making $350,000 a year as an attending emergency physician there. But instead, she took a comparable job in Brooklyn paying $165,000 because she was young and single and wanted to live in a big city.

That decision came at a cost. “You are not a wealthy person in New York if you are a physician,” she said.
Dr. Fairbrother got married and two years ago she and her husband decided to move to Texas to be closer to his family. “My friends who go and practice at the border of Texas and Mexico in the middle of nowhere make more money than anybody else,” she said. But she and her husband, who is Indian, didn’t want to live in a small town.

Dr. Seija said the concept of a single-payer health-care system was worth exploring: ‘It’s time for change.’

“What happens when there’s no Indian restaurants where we live and my child never gets to taste Indian food?” she asked. The couple settled in Houston, where Dr. Fairbrother, 40, earns $288,000 a year treating ER patients and directing undergraduate education at a teaching hospital.

Like I said before on other threads, physicians want to work in big metro areas for a multitude of reasons and despite moaning and groaning will take those jobs for far less $$$. Why work for less? Well as in this docs case she was single and didn't want to go to small town America. Most physicians want to marry other professionals. Young single docs want to work in areas with other eligible young professionals (techies, engineers, docs, pharmacists, dentists, business, law, etc). Even if you are married there are now two working individuals that have to agree on a place to live. If one wants to live the rural FM lifestyle and make $$$ but the other is a academically inclined Infectious Disease doc, guess what, they are going to live in and around a bigger city with an academic medical center. Back in the day when docs were all male and predominantly had stay-at-home wives this wasn't as much of an issue. You just moved where the money was and the wife followed. If the spouse works a job at a big law or big tech company there are no jobs in Montana or El Paso. You are going to the Bay Area in CA or Austin and take a big pay cut.

This particular doc works at UT Houston and is therefore relevant to the current discussion on Houston salaries. https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-fairbrother-9831025/
 
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GeneralVeers said:
We have quarterly meetings where all these useless people come and talk to us. Most are nurses in middle management positions, and they just love it. They love powerpoint, and corporate-speak, and trivial nonsense. It's a non-stop hour of torture that makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
Click to expand...

The general principle of followingbthe money typically can help you figure out what they are trying to do. The meetings become irrelevant. You don’t even have to listen
 
The invention of the iPhone has made all this so much better. I just play my games while the drivel flows. luckily I don't have many of these this is usually some hospital mandated stuff.
 
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