How are people willing to take 450k+ debt?
Started by Likkriue
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Technically. You have to live somewhere and eat something. "Living expenses" allows for that. But the number is usually substantially higher than what you would need if you are single and live with roommates and don't get crazy, unless maybe you're talking about a school in NYC or SF or somewhere with a very high cost of living
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fogorvostan
Room and board is for living anywhere. I'm not living on campus, but I still need money to pay for an apartment, food, utilities, living expenses, etc. I guess you don't need to take out the money for room and board if you have someone who is supporting you 100% (and if you do, can I be adopted?)
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Including everything.
Oh ok so room and board would be an estimate of living anywhere in general then? It isn't referring to living on campus
Sure just hit me up.
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fogorvostan
Correct.
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schmoob
I don't know of many dental students who live on campus, but I could be wrong.
Are you kidding? I get paid tons of money to keep my clothes on.
The only lottery I'm playing is applying to dental school.
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Most private schools and OOS schools that don't give state tuition cost about 400k and change now.
NYU = 490, inc. living expenses, healthcare, fees, etc.
It'll be closer to 600K after you factor in annual tuition increase (I ballpark it at 5% annually) and simple interest on loans (~50K total for an average loan at 5%) during the dental school school years
There's always HPSP if you're willing to go military. (All you athletic folks out there take a hint 😉 )I'm doing everything I can to keep costs down but even so I'm looking at least 250k in debt IF I get into my top choice.
Some went to college too!
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Do they work in rural areas?
I'm debating whether or not its even worth sending secondaries to schools that cost over $500k. I'm already applying to 4 schools with total cost of attendance well under $400k. Any advice?
Don't
I personally wouldn't consider applying to schools that will put you 500k+ in debt. Unless you have a rich family or someone who will pay for it.
I don't understand why people take out loans of that magnitude either. The smartest thing would be to ONLY cast your net to state schools with cheap tuition. Yea i get it, that it is very difficult to get into these kinds of schools so it's alright if you don't get in in your first application cycle. So what do u do then? make your application stronger and reapply and keep reapplying to only those state schools. This does two things. 1) guarantees that you will eventually have a relatively low debt 2) selects for schools that you can reasonably afford. If you apply to privates along w/ state schools, what you're doing is risking the chance that you could end up at that private school (you can't turn down the acceptance at that point in time when you start realizing that you're going to be in half a million in debt or you're screwed for future application cycles). So apply only to ones that are cheap. Not getting in in your first try will strengthen your determination to keep reapplying if dentistry is what you want to do in the long run or if you end up quitting, dentistry was never for you anyways.
Yea you'll probably lose out on a year or two of opportunity cost if you only apply to state schools and u don't get in but at least you're transition into the real world of practicing upon graduation will be alot less stressful in terms of repaying loans and your overall lifestyle will be of higher quality. Also keep in mind that at many schools, the average age is like 24 or 25 for entering dental school anyways.
Yea you'll probably lose out on a year or two of opportunity cost if you only apply to state schools and u don't get in but at least you're transition into the real world of practicing upon graduation will be alot less stressful in terms of repaying loans and your overall lifestyle will be of higher quality. Also keep in mind that at many schools, the average age is like 24 or 25 for entering dental school anyways.
My boss and his son both own a million dollar high end practice, out of network (no insurance) and he said it took him 7 years to pay off his debt back in the day & it will take the average new graduate 10 years "if you do it right" sooooo it's doable
Oh man I would've EASILY majored in engineering when I was 18 knew a science degree will only get you so far. Even as a plan B-Z.. dental schools LOVE engineers, and it's an amazing backup career... ragrets for life lolllll
if you're willing to dick around for couple of years, could always apply to nhsc/hpsp instead.
NHSC could be okay but they don't really provide that much more money to pay off your debt (like around 60K on top of your original 120Kish salary) and the money that they do provide is taxable (so that 60K would be taxable after 2 years) so you only pay your debt from the remaining money that was taxed (the 60K) for helping out the underserved areas. That's not that much for every 2 years of continued service. You would make more in private practice if you opened your own practice. Also, HPSP is not really ideal if you're going into dentistry to open your practice. I wouldn't want to go into dentistry knowing that I would have to do military on the side just to pay the bills. I get that the military could be exciting and be unique in your experiences but if you were the type that wanted to go into dentistry to have a normal or comfortable life (like a majority of dental students), you shouldn't have to think about serving 4 additional years in the military. It's not a sacrifice I or alot of other would be willing to make. I'd rather do something else if it came down to that. I'm not THAT passionate about dentistry and I don't think many of my colleagues in school are either.
1. He was referring to the NHSC scholarship which pays for dental school completely and gives you a living stipend (analogous to the HPSP)
2. NHSC loan repayment (different program than the scholarship) is $50,000 tax-free, lump sum, in exchange for a 2-year commitment.
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nhsc scholarship. not LRP
Dentist's level of student debt is a huge hindrance to a normal and comfortable life. IMO I think students are making a bigger sacrifice by taking on this huge student loan burden. They will take the hit early in life through lifestyle adjustment (live like a pleb) and they will take another hit in retirement when they couldn't save enough early in life.
Last I check, many state school still charge state resident above 270k
But each to their own.
That's definitely not true that most state schools charge 270K or above. Most schools' total cost of attendance on their websites overestimate living expenses significantly so I would recommend living poor in dental school and you will be under 250K and also if you go to your state school and live at home perhaps? That's way better to me than serving in the military lol I understand this may not be feasible for someone with a family but then again, do u think the military is ? It'll suck when the said student would have to give up 4 years of family time for military service. i'd say 250K is a good level. 300K is too much. So if you go to a school that is around 230-250K, which realistically majority of schools are as they over inflate total cost of attendnace on their websites, you will be just fine.
So wait that NHSC scholarship, what do u have to give back in service? They don't just give you a scholarship without nothing in return right? I didn't know this scholarship existed. That's kinda cool.
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okay i apologize it is tax free. I was referring to indian health services. But still 50 grand over 2 years is nothing. Like i said, you would make more in private practice.
"It'll suck when the said student would have to give up 4 years of family time for military service"
what's stopping people from bringing their wife and kids...? Dental school takes more family time away from students than military would from their doctors. Of course, there is always chance of deployment and that's the big one, but it's not 4 years long
If I had a family in dental school, I would rather have access to a military stipend during school than trying to budget my way around my student loans.
NHSC scholarship same thing as HPSP. Number of sponsorship = number of payback. During payback, you choose a site with a high score (high need, underserved) and you work there. If you know about NHSC LRP, it's pretty much the same thing except they gave you a scholarship instead of offering you LRP.
I think at 250k, it's still financially worth it to do HPSP/NHSC. but you have to crush the numbers yourself and decide what's your risk tolerance
Do you really want to live on a military base with your wife and kid? I can't imagine having to raise my child that way, no disrespect for those who are comfortable doing that. But this is the thing that I am talking about: going into a profession that forces you to live that way wouldn't be worth it when all you want is to be a normal civilian. And talking about a family is beside the point because the majority of students don't have families and so I'm assuming that we can afford to live poorly during dental school because that is true for most people. No advice will ever suit a 100% of the target people--that's why it's called advice.
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Just live off base...
School will push student towards indentured servitude with Uncle Sam or Big brother either way. Just a matter of choosing how early you can get out
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I guess.
So if you have a family: go to the military.
If you're a single student, just live like your poor in state school. Bam, problem solved 🙂
If you can't get into a state school, apply again till you do.
Don't do private.
I think someone should sticky this advice.
You were correct when you said that no advice will ever suit 100%.
Personally, there is nothing I would love more than living on a military base or an aircraft carrier while treating our service-members.
I mean she is just gorgeous:
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My parents are willing to cover around $250k of the cost, and I would have to take out loans for the rest. I would much rather have $100,000 worth of loans coming out of school than $250,000 (more likely $350,000 with interest).
I applied to 5 schools that would set me up for around $100,000 debt, but I think that this is too few and I applied late (sent in everything 2 weeks ago). If I extend my application to the schools I have secondaries in progress, I would have another 3 schools. I just find it hard to justify applying to a school that costs $150k-200k more just to save a year of my time.
Just gonna add on that 2 of the 5 schools are UCSF and UCLA. Even with my stats, it is a gamble to land a spot at either of these schools. So.. reasonably, I'm only applying to 3 "affordable" schools.
Yup. One of the many reasons why I chose dentistry. I majored in microbiology and most jobs with only B.S. degree (especially intro level jobs with no experience) pay around 35k (in my state at least). Once you have a couple years experience, the pay gets slightly better but oh boy do life science majors get paid little. Good think I got no student loans.
It seems to me that A LOT families, especially Asian families, make it a #1 priority to cover their children's education (I have several pre-med and pre-dental friends who are receiving $250-350K from their mom and dad for their educations). In exchange, they plan to take care of anything their parents need in old age. I think it's a wonderful system....really goes to the heart of what it means to be family.
My family is leaving me out to dry.
With your awesome stats, you won't even need their help to pay off your loans since I'm sure you'll get into a cheaper school😉
How ye know I'm Asian??
kidding. But also, that's just how it is growing up in Hawaii. Doesn't matter if you're Asian or not, family is everyones #1 priority here. And I'll be sure to remember that when I take them on a nice vacation of their choosing!
How ye know I'm Asian??
But also, that's just how it is growing up in Hawaii. Doesn't matter if you're Asian or not, family is everyones #1 priority here. And I'll be sure to remember that when I take them on a nice vacation of their choosing!
I didn't know that you were Asian- was just making a general comment that many families, especially Asian ones- tend to support their children's education. Not all, but a lot do.
Can I join your Ohana?
Of course, come to the islands! But I'll warn you now, a grass shack here is $1,000,000 with no utilities and milk costs $7 per gallon.
Of course, come to the islands! But I'll warn you now, a grass shack here is $1,000,000 with no utilities and milk costs $7 per gallon.
It doesn't matter to me. Aloha ‘āina over here. I'll sleep on a hammock beneath the stars and drink lots of coconut water.
Side note: How on earth you got a 4.05 cGPA and 24AA on the DAT while living in the paradise that is Hawaii is beyond me. I doubt I would have gotten above a 3.0 and 17 if I was living in Hawaii.
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786783
Because they haven't done the math, or because they did with unrealistic numbers. That's exactly what happened to me. Now that I'm nearing graduation and know a good amount of how dentists are compensated and loans are paid back, I look back and see how I Could have saved hundreds of thousands by just going to a cheap state undergrad and cheap state dental school!
When I was in high school i just wanted to get to the best undergrad possible irrespective of price and then I committed the same mistake in undergrad...
I Do not regret entering the field, just regret financial choices that will cost me years of work and mental health.
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/recent-arizona-dental-grad-vs-10000-per-month-debt/
Basically do the opposite of whatever this guy did.
Bought a 28k minivan when he is -440k in the hole? What the hell.
Basically do the opposite of whatever this guy did.
Bought a 28k minivan when he is -440k in the hole? What the hell.
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28k minivan is nothing compared to the three kids.
He did it while in school. The kids are younger than 4. Thats nuts.
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schmoob
I disagree. Having 3 kids is VERY difficult. It is very easy for people without kids to judge others financial decisions about certain things, as evidenced by the armchair quarterbacks that fill the comments section of that blog. I got through a number of them but didn't finish, and I did not see anyone mention having kids, but they were quick to trash this guy's decisions.
28K for a reliable family car under warranty, that has many years of life left is really not bad. Maybe they could've gotten something a tad cheaper used, but honestly that price range is pretty spot on. Minivans can get pretty expensive.
Plus when he was in dental school he had 2 kids. The difference between 1 & 2, or 2 & 3 is huge. The 3rd kid is reason enough to get a minivan because they now need the third row seat. These children are all VERY little.
The mortgage is good. That's a good, reasonably priced home. I do agree though that the kitchen remodeling was a bad choice, as well as the whole life policy. Whoever is reading this if you ever listen to anything I post, this is it: NEVER BUY WHOLE LIFE OR UNIVERSAL; ONLY BUY TERM. Your car is insured 6 months at a time, right? Would you use your car insurance as an investment tool? No, that's ridiculous.
However, I disagree with the statement that the wife should dump her term policy. That's terrible advice. Just because she is not contributing to the family's income stream now does not mean she isn't worth an insurance policy. What would happen to the kids if something happened to her? An Au Pair? Nanny? What about contributions she would have made to the family income after going back to work? Plus her final expenses. Waiting until a few years down the road to get a term policy will also raise the rates on her.
Debt becomes much more complicated when there is a family involved.
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