How are the SGU success stories explained?

[johncstudent32]

SGU is in the back of my mind. It's an option that's on the table for me.

What I want to know is how do the people here who are saying "Don't go Caribbean" explain it when people do go down that route, specifically the St. George's route, and then succeed?

The way I look at it is if everyone listened to the "Don't go Caribbean" advice then nobody would apply to these schools, they would go out of business, shut down, and then there would be no other option but to apply MD/DO stateside where these same students who are applying to these schools will probably still not be competitive. Now obviously people are still applying to St. George's and matching into residencies so if that is something that is ongoing, how do you explain to a prospective student that the SGU route is still not a viable option to becoming a practicing doc?

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[bobjonesbob]

It’s because of the risk. No one denies the fact that a certain percentage of students go to Caribbean schools, crush step 1, find rotations back in the states and make it out fine. Met a handful of these people on the interview trail. The thing is that’s a much smaller percentage than US MD. People go to the Caribbean for a reason - they don’t have a better option. Everyone who goes thinks they’ll be the 10% that pulls it together and outperforms the others but the reality is for many students it doesn’t turn out well.


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[DrStephenStrange]

The same way lottery success stories are explained. You get a large amount of players to play the game, and eventually you will get 1 or 2 winners.

 

[johncstudent32]

The same way lottery success stories are explained. You get a large amount of players to play the game, and eventually you will get 1 or 2 winners.

I can understand the lottery aspect since I do agree that not everybody who applies then matches four years later.

But at the same time, with buying lottery tickets everybody is "equal" right? I don't see how someone who applies to the Caribbean with a 3.0 and a 490 MCAT is somehow equal to a student who applied stateside with respectable stats but was rejected.

If the latter students look at SGU as an option, well isn't it a viable option then?

 

[Gambino.]

I can understand the lottery aspect since I do agree that not everybody who applies then matches four years later.

But at the same time, with buying lottery tickets everybody is "equal" right? I don't see how someone who applies to the Caribbean with a 3.0 and a 490 MCAT is somehow equal to a student who applied stateside with respectable stats but was rejected.

If the latter students look at SGU as an option, well isn't it a viable option then?

Except those grades are what is the typical student here at carib schools. If they had respectable stats then they'd get into a DO program right? Carib can be an option, just don't consider it until 2-3 cycles of applying very broadly to US MD/DO and considering post-bacc work to improve your chances. My class has 180 people originally but is currently at 260 due to people repeating. Last semester had a class of ~420 with 180 people failing and having to repeat/remediate/score so low that they dropped out. If you want hard stats, about 55-65% of students at a big 3 will graduate. Of that percent, about 80-90% will match/SOAP but 80% of that will be in a primary care field. Just do your due diligence, avoid carib if you can, but stop looking for those "success" stories to try and validate your decision. Obviously people here can and have matched, but its under different circumstances and typically in less desirable fields.

 

[johncstudent32]

Except those grades are what is the typical student here at carib schools. If they had respectable stats then they'd get into a DO program right? Carib can be an option, just don't consider it until 2-3 cycles of applying very broadly to US MD/DO and considering post-bacc work to improve your chances. My class has 180 people originally but is currently at 260 due to people repeating. Last semester had a class of ~420 with 180 people failing and having to repeat/remediate/score so low that they dropped out. If you want hard stats, about 55-65% of students at a big 3 will graduate. Of that percent, about 80-90% will match/SOAP but 80% of that will be in a primary care field. Just do your due diligence, avoid carib if you can, but stop looking for those "success" stories to try and validate your decision. Obviously people here can and have matched, but its under different circumstances and typically in less desirable fields.

What school do you go to?

 

[Gambino.]

What school do you go to?

Ross

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I can understand the lottery aspect since I do agree that not everybody who applies then matches four years later.

But at the same time, with buying lottery tickets everybody is "equal" right? I don't see how someone who applies to the Caribbean with a 3.0 and a 490 MCAT is somehow equal to a student who applied stateside with respectable stats but was rejected.

If the latter students look at SGU as an option, well isn't it a viable option then?

The latter students have no business applying to SGU. They should fix their app for DO. With the very rapid expansion of medical schools (MD and DO) in the US, they should be able to land a spot somewhere. Expansion will eventually make it even harder for Carib grads.

 

[johncstudent32]

Ross

Yeah, I was talking strictly about SGU and their students and match rate.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Yeah, I was talking strictly about SGU and their students and match rate.

SGU and ROSS student body aren't that different. They are the two most popular choices.

 

[johncstudent32]

SGU and ROSS student body aren't that different. They are the two most popular choices.

How do you know that they aren't that different?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

How do you know that they aren't that different?

Because when I was applying for med school 2 years ago, the average stats was around 3.2, 495 for both according to their representatives over the phone. Again, they are the most popular, so they attract similar students.

 

[johncstudent32]

Because when I was applying for med school 2 years ago, the average stats was around 3.2, 495 for both according to their representatives over the phone. Again, they are the most popular, so they attack similar students.

I'm confused. So are you saying that all of the students are lower tier students but some of these lower tier students are succeeding in matching? My stance on SGU is that the students who enter with reasonable stats do make it out of the program and become doctors.

Again, I could care less how the whole school does. I just care about me.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I posted this in another thread about the Caribbean, so I'll repost it here just in case:

Here's a picture of the expansion of medical schools in the US for the past 6 years. Meanwhile the number of residency spots added every year is pretty much insignificant. The gap between US graduates and vacant residency spots is slowly closing, and eventually there will be a bottleneck. Last year, we had a record overall number of US graduates that didn't match. Now honestly, how long do you think the Caribbean route can remain relevant without an actual residency expansion (which is unlikely to happen soon)?

New MD schools and their first class (usually anywhere from 50 to over 150 seats each):
Western Michigan University in 2014
California Northstate in 2015
CUNY in 2016
U. of texas Rio Grande Valley in 2016
Dell in 2016
Washington state in spokane in 2017
Mayo clinic scottsdale in 2017
University of Nevada in Las Vegas in 2017
California University of science in 2018
Nova southeastern university in 2018
Hackensack Meridian in 2018
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2018
TCU and UNTHSC in 2019
Indiana University at Evansville in 2020

New DO schools and their first class (usually 150 students per class except some rare exceptions):
LUCOM in 2014
WCUCOM in 2014
VCOM-Auburn in 2015
VCOM-Spartanburg in 2015
Western U.-Lebanon in 2015
BCOM in 2016
NYIT-Jonesboro in 2016
ARCOM in 2017
UIWSOM in 2017
RVUCOM-Ivins in 2017
Touro-Middletown in 2018
ICOM in 2018
CHSU in 2020
Sam Houston State in 2020

Developing Medical Schools both MD and DO shows a list of 24 schools (12 MDs and 12 DOs) seeking accreditation right now.
source: List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I'm confused. So are you saying that all of the students are lower tier students but some of these lower tier students are succeeding in matching? My stance on SGU is that the students who enter with reasonable stats do make it out of the program and become doctors.

Again, I could care less how the whole school does. I just care about me.

Not that all students are lower tier. You will find those students that just couldn't wait to get in medical school and due to their impatience just went to the Carib. You will also find those that just didn't study for the MCAT and got a 497, but are perfectly capable of doing well on it. Or those perfectly competitive students that because of red flags (IA, misdemeanor, ect) couldn't get in med school state side.

 

[johncstudent32]

I posted this in another thread about the Caribbean, so I'll repost it here just in case:

Here's picture of the expansion of medical school in the US for the past 6 years. Meanwhile the number of residency spots added every year is pretty much insignificant. The gap between US graduates and vacant residency spots is slowly closing, and eventually there will be a bottleneck. Last year, we had a record overall number of US graduates that didn't match. Now honestly, how long do you think the Caribbean route can remain relevant without an actual residency expansion (which is unlikely to happen soon)?

New MD schools and their first class (usually anywhere from 50 to over 150 seats each):
Western Michigan University in 2014
California Northstate in 2015
CUNY in 2016
U. of texas Rio Grande Valley in 2016
Dell in 2016
Washington state in spokane in 2017
Mayo clinic scottsdale in 2017
University of Nevada in Las Vegas in 2017
California University of science in 2018
Nova southeastern university in 2018
Hackensack Meridian in 2018
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2018
TCU and UNTHSC in 2019
Indiana University at Evansville in 2020

New DO schools and their first class (usually 150 students per class except some rare exceptions):
LUCOM in 2014
WCUCOM in 2014
VCOM-Auburn in 2015
VCOM-Spartanburg in 2015
Western U.-Lebanon in 2015
BCOM in 2016
NYIT-Jonesboro in 2016
ARCOM in 2017
UIWSOM in 2017
RVUCOM-Ivins in 2017
Touro-Middletown in 2018
ICOM in 2018
CHSU in 2020
Sam Houston State in 2020

Developing Medical Schools both MD and DO shows a list of 24 schools (12 MDs and 12 DOs) seeking accreditation right now.
source: List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia

I live in the New York area and a lot of smaller programs are filled by IMG's. I don't know what geographical location you are in but up here in the New York, New Jersey area there are a lot of SGU students and grads so I guess that is how I am familiar with those who are succeeding.

Do you think all those US med students want to work in IM in Harlem, New York though? I mean are you guys competing for those residencies?

 

[johncstudent32]

Not that all students are lower tier. You will find those students that just couldn't wait to get in medical school and due to their impatience just went to the Carib. You will also find those that just didn't study for the MCAT and got a 497, but are perfectly capable of doing well on it. Or those perfectly competitive students that because of red flags (IA, misdemeanor, ect) couldn't get in med school state side.

I understand your stance and others but I don't think it is fair to say that if you keep applying that everybody who wants to go to medical school will eventually get in. I don't think that is realistic because you have competitive applicants coming in for every cycle. So for those students who are borderline but don't get in because of the competition, I really do think those students can become doctors at SGU. I mean that's what I'm seeing over here and at some point it does make you interested in the route. I mean would you rather be a doctor and get to work or do you want to still remain on the sidelines indefinitely?

 

[Gambino.]

How do you know that they aren't that different?

Don't come on these forums without at least doin a shred of research man. SGU/Ross/AUC all have similar numbers, if you got into 1 you likely got into the other. I got into SGU and picked Ross, it's honestly preference at that point. Obviously Trinity or Xavier will have much different stats, being low tier even for carib schools, but those 3 all have similar percentages and you can figure that out with available information from prior posts.

You answered your own question in that later post. NY/NJ/FL are all IMG friendly states and where a majority of carib grads go. Go take a look at match lists from any carib school and you'll see a lot of them fall into those 3 states.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I live in the New York area and a lot of smaller programs are filled by IMG's. I don't know what geographical location you are in but up here in the New York, New Jersey area there are a lot of SGU students and grads so I guess that is how I am familiar with those who are succeeding.

Do you think all those US med students want to work in IM in Harlem, New York though? I mean are you guys competing for those residencies?

You just don't get it, do you? You totally missed the point of my post.
Yes, there are lot of IMG sweatshops in NY. That's undeniable, but they are probably not the kinda of programs you want to work for though. Also, How many IMG sweatshops around the country other than the NY area do you know of? and are there enough to go around for the thousands of IMG grads?
You go to the Carib, you already have a 30% chance of more of getting dismissed in the first 2 years. Ok, you make it through the match you got 50% chance of matching. If by any chance you match, it's most likely (9 times out of 10) gonna in primary care in a malignant program getting overworked under the radar of the ACGME. Are those good odds to you?
You go DO, there's an average of 5% attrition overall, 98% chance of matching. 50% of landing in primary care at decent programs.

Maybe I should let @Goro @gonnif @Angus Avagadro @AnatomyGrey12 @hallowmann knock some sense into you instead.

 

[johncstudent32]

You just don't get it, do you? You totally missed the point of my post?
Yes, there are lot of IMG sweatshops in NY. That's undeniable, but they are probably not the kinda of programs you want to work for though. Also, How many IMG sweatshops around the country other than the NY area do you know of? and are there enough to go around for the thousands of IMG grads?
You go to the Carib, you already have a 30% chance of more of getting dismissed in the first 2 years. Ok, you make it through the match you got 50% chance of matching. If by any chance you match, it's most likely (9 times out of 10) gonna in primary care in a malignant program getting overworked under the radar of the ACGME. Are those good odds to you?
You go DO, there's an average of 5% attrition overall, 98% chance of matching. 50% of landing in primary care at decent programs.

Maybe I should let @Goro @gonnif @Angus Avagadro @AnatomyGrey12 @hallowmann knock some sense into you instead.

You don't have to lose your cool man. Hint: that's why nobody takes the Caribbean advice here.

If you can't answer my question then let's just leave it at that and I'll find someone who can OK?

 

[johncstudent32]

Don't come on these forums without at least doin a shred of research man. SGU/Ross/AUC all have similar numbers, if you got into 1 you likely got into the other. I got into SGU and picked Ross, it's honestly preference at that point. Obviously Trinity or Xavier will have much different stats, being low tier even for carib schools, but those 3 all have similar percentages and you can figure that out with available information from prior posts.

You answered your own question in that later post. NY/NJ/FL are all IMG friendly states and where a majority of carib grads go. Go take a look at match lists from any carib school and you'll see a lot of them fall into those 3 states.

I did enough research to know that YOU don't know what you're talking about. I called up SGU a few weeks back and they said you need a 500 MCAT minimum. You're saying 495 which is considerably lower and you go to Ross which I would never consider.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

You don't have to lose your cool man. Hint: that's why nobody takes the Caribbean advice here.

If you can't answer my question then let's just leave it at that and I'll find someone who can OK?

I'm totally cool dude. I tried to answer you, but you don't want to accept any of it. Maybe you should go to the Caribbean to see for yourself then.

 

[Gambino.]

I did enough research to know that YOU don't know what you're talking about. I called up SGU a few weeks back and they said you need a 500 MCAT minimum. You're saying 495 which is considerably lower and you go to Ross which I would never consider.

Lmao you're obviously set on trying to desperately fit your narrative. Feel free to update this post in 4 years when you become that SGU derm grad.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If you can't answer my question then let's just leave it at that and I'll find someone who can OK?

He answered your question.

If you want to go carib then go carib, but when you realize that reality is actually even WORSE than what you are being told here don't come back complaining.

I did enough research to know that YOU don't know what you're talking about. I called up SGU a few weeks back and they said you need a 500 MCAT minimum. You're saying 495 which is considerably lower and you go to Ross which I would never consider.

Bro if you believe that then i've got a beach front timeshare in Kansas to sell you.

 

[johncstudent32]

I'm totally cool dude. I tried to answer you, but you don't want to accept any of it. Maybe you should go to the Caribbean to see for yourself then.

No, you through some name calling in there lol. That's a sign you're losing your cool.

I think you are not understanding what I'm asking. I wouldn't be applying as a low-tier student. At the same time no guarantees are offered that I would get a US program and I think any adcom would agree that there are no guarantees in the admissions process. Having said that, I think I know my material really well and I am currently studying for the MCAT and based on that score I can try for a masters program or go to SGU.

I think you automatically bunched me into the group that has poor stats. I wouldn't pursue medicine if I had poor stats.

 

[johncstudent32]

Lmao you're obviously set on trying to desperately fit your narrative. Feel free to update this post in 4 years when you become that SGU derm grad.

OK, thanks. You were most helpful.

 

[Gambino.]

Just to leave this thread on a good note. About your "500" minimum, why does SGU's OWN WEBSITE say the average is a 498 for accepted students?

The average cumulative GPA is a 3.3 and the average Science GPA is a 3.2. The average total MCAT score is a 498. These are our averages, we do not have minimums. The School of Medicine Faculty Student Selection Committee does a full review of each applicant and seeks students who demonstrate both academic and non-academic skills to be successful in medical school and the subsequent practice of medicine.

Ripped from their own FAQ.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I posted this in another thread about the Caribbean, so I'll repost it here just in case:

Here's a picture of the expansion of medical schools in the US for the past 6 years. Meanwhile the number of residency spots added every year is pretty much insignificant. The gap between US graduates and vacant residency spots is slowly closing, and eventually there will be a bottleneck. Last year, we had a record overall number of US graduates that didn't match. Now honestly, how long do you think the Caribbean route can remain relevant without an actual residency expansion (which is unlikely to happen soon)?

New MD schools and their first class (usually anywhere from 50 to over 150 seats each):
Western Michigan University in 2014
California Northstate in 2015
CUNY in 2016
U. of texas Rio Grande Valley in 2016
Dell in 2016
Washington state in spokane in 2017
Mayo clinic scottsdale in 2017
University of Nevada in Las Vegas in 2017
California University of science in 2018
Nova southeastern university in 2018
Hackensack Meridian in 2018
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2018
TCU and UNTHSC in 2019
Indiana University at Evansville in 2020

New DO schools and their first class (usually 150 students per class except some rare exceptions):
LUCOM in 2014
WCUCOM in 2014
VCOM-Auburn in 2015
VCOM-Spartanburg in 2015
Western U.-Lebanon in 2015
BCOM in 2016
NYIT-Jonesboro in 2016
ARCOM in 2017
UIWSOM in 2017
RVUCOM-Ivins in 2017
Touro-Middletown in 2018
ICOM in 2018
CHSU in 2020
Sam Houston State in 2020

Developing Medical Schools both MD and DO shows a list of 24 schools (12 MDs and 12 DOs) seeking accreditation right now.
source: List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia

So, I posted this.

I live in the New York area and a lot of smaller programs are filled by IMG's. I don't know what geographical location you are in but up here in the New York, New Jersey area there are a lot of SGU students and grads so I guess that is how I am familiar with those who are succeeding.

Do you think all those US med students want to work in IM in Harlem, New York though? I mean are you guys competing for those residencies?

This is what you got out of it. LOL
And you wondering why I'm losing my cool and can't answer your questions. LOL

 

[johncstudent32]

Just to leave this thread on a good note. About your "500" minimum, why does SGU's OWN WEBSITE say the average is a 498 for accepted students?

The average cumulative GPA is a 3.3 and the average Science GPA is a 3.2. The average total MCAT score is a 498. These are our averages, we do not have minimums. The School of Medicine Faculty Student Selection Committee does a full review of each applicant and seeks students who demonstrate both academic and non-academic skills to be successful in medical school and the subsequent practice of medicine.

Ripped from their own FAQ.

They told me 500 minimum unless I called another St. George's University.

 

[johncstudent32]

So, I posted this.



This is what you got out of it. LOL
And you wondering why I'm losing my cool and can't answer your questions. LOL

What didn't you get?

No US student is competing for a small community health spot in a no-name location. I have US med school friends too bud lol.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

No, you through some name calling in there lol. That's a sign you're losing your cool.

I think you are not understanding what I'm asking. I wouldn't be applying as a low-tier student. At the same time no guarantees are offered that I would get a US program and I think any adcom would agree that there are no guarantees in the admissions process. Having said that, I think I know my material really well and I am currently studying for the MCAT and based on that score I can try for a masters program or go to SGU.

I think you automatically bunched me into the group that has poor stats. I wouldn't pursue medicine if I had poor stats.

Ok, so you're not a low-tier applicant. Let me ask you this, what is your problem with the DO route then?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

What didn't you get?

No US student is competing for a small community health spot in a no-name location. I have US med school friends too bud lol.

Eventually, US students will be competing for those too if they are not already. That was my point in the original post.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No, you through some name calling in there lol. That's a sign you're losing your cool.

I think you are not understanding what I'm asking. I wouldn't be applying as a low-tier student. At the same time no guarantees are offered that I would get a US program and I think any adcom would agree that there are no guarantees in the admissions process. Having said that, I think I know my material really well and I am currently studying for the MCAT and based on that score I can try for a masters program or go to SGU.

I think you automatically bunched me into the group that has poor stats. I wouldn't pursue medicine if I had poor stats.

Lol if you're considering the carib you are by definition a low tier applicant. Same with DO applicants, except DO's have a much higher chance of getting the field they want, and just matching in general.

No US student is competing for a small community health spot in a no-name location. I have US med school friends too bud lol.

Lol. You're right. You'll be competing with the thousands of IMGs/FMGs/bad DO candidates for those spots. Good luck.

 

[johncstudent32]

Ok, so you're not a low-tier applicant. Let me ask you this, what is your problem with the DO route then?

No problem with DO. I don't think anybody has a problem with DO.

I'm not waiting for multiple cycles and I think a lot of people would feel the same way.

 

[johncstudent32]

Lol if you're considering the carib you are by definition a low tier applicant. Same with DO applicants, except DO's have a much higher chance of getting the field they want, and just matching in general.




Lol. You're right. You'll be competing with the thousands of IMGs/FMGs/bad DO candidates for those spots. Good luck.

If I'm considering the Caribbean that makes me a low-tier applicant?

I think you should worry more about your upcoming exams and less about the Caribbean students if you honestly don't know how that works because I can tell you don't.

If you ever make it up to the East Coast, perhaps ask some of the programs up here how they view SGU students.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

No problem with DO. I don't think anybody has a problem with DO.

I'm not waiting for multiple cycles and I think a lot of people would feel the same way.

I waited 5 years after undergrad to get in med school. It was well worth it.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

If I'm considering the Caribbean that makes me a low-tier applicant?

I think you should worry more about your upcoming exams and less about the Caribbean students if you honestly don't know how that works because I can tell you don't.

If you ever make it up to the East Coast, perhaps ask some of the programs up here how they view SGU students.

Going to SGU banking on the NE residency programs isn't a viable plan dude. I'm telling you now, so you can come back to it 4 years later and realize I was right.

 

[johncstudent32]

I waited 5 years after graduating undergrad to get in med school. It was well worth it.

Good for you man. That's not everybody's story however.

Someone could go to SGU and graduate and have five years of an attending salary under their belt while you were just starting to get your feet wet. You have to look at it like that as well... unless you are going to make the argument that you want to become a big bad orthopedic surgeon lol. Not everybody goes to the Caribbean to find the specialty that makes the most money. Some people, like myself, actually enjoy primary care.

 

[johncstudent32]

Going to SGU banking on the NE programs isn't a viable plan dude. I'm telling you now, so you can come back to it 4 years later and realize I was right.

What? SGU I think encourages students to apply to those programs as those are where the students mostly rotate.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Good for you man. That's not everybody's story however.

Someone could go to SGU and graduate and have five years of an attending salary under their belt while you were just starting to get your feet wet. You have to look at it like that as well... unless you are going to make the argument that you want to become a big bad orthopedic surgeon lol. Not everybody goes to the Caribbean to find the specialty that makes the most money. Some people, like myself, actually enjoy primary care.

Or Fail or not match and left with a bunch of loans to pay on a McDonald's salary. It depends on how you look at it, right?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

What? SGU I think encourages students to apply to those programs as those are where the students mostly rotate.

Good luck bro!!! Update this thread in 4 years. I have nothing else to say.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Good for you man. That's not everybody's story however.

Someone could go to SGU and graduate and have five years of an attending salary under their belt while you were just starting to get your feet wet. You have to look at it like that as well... unless you are going to make the argument that you want to become a big bad orthopedic surgeon lol. Not everybody goes to the Caribbean to find the specialty that makes the most money. Some people, like myself, actually enjoy primary care.

What's your plan if you don't match and saddled with a 400k+ debt? How long would it take to pay off that debt then?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If I'm considering the Caribbean that makes me a low-tier applicant?

I think you should worry more about your upcoming exams and less about the Caribbean students if you honestly don't know how that works because I can tell you don't.

If you ever make it up to the East Coast, perhaps ask some of the programs up here how they view SGU students.

Lmao. Ok bro. Someone doesn't know how this works but it's not me. Have fun on the islands

 

[johncstudent32]

What's your plan if you don't match and saddled with a 400k+ debt? How long would it take to pay off that debt then?

What's your plan if you commit malpractice and lose your license?

See what I did there?

 

[johncstudent32]

Lmao. Ok bro. Someone doesn't know how this works but it's not me. Have fun on the islands

Well you're the one who said I am going to magically become a low-tier applicant by applying to SGU right? So how could anyone take your responses seriously?

 

[johncstudent32]

Good luck bro!!! Update this thread in 4 years. I have nothing else to say.

Why would I come back here to update lol?

 

[Goro]

SGU is in the back of my mind. It's an option that's on the table for me.

What I want to know is how do the people here who are saying "Don't go Caribbean" explain it when people do go down that route, specifically the St. George's route, and then succeed?

The way I look at it is if everyone listened to the "Don't go Caribbean" advice then nobody would apply to these schools, they would go out of business, shut down, and then there would be no other option but to apply MD/DO stateside where these same students who are applying to these schools will probably still not be competitive. Now obviously people are still applying to St. George's and matching into residencies so if that is something that is ongoing, how do you explain to a prospective student that the SGU route is still not a viable option to becoming a practicing doc?

Can you explain how chances of being a doctor are less than 50% (and going to shrink further due to med school expansion outstripping the rate of residency slot creation) is a "viable plan"?

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are quite a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they ‘d be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Bedevilled Ben or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

I don't know if you're simply trolling or engaging in magic thinking, but here's a little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

"Why didn't I Match?"

There seems to be a lot of discussion lately on this topic, including a lot of fear-mongering anecdotes with an undercurrent of innuendo that odds are you will necessarily fail if you go to the Caribbean. With that said, I'm sharing an article from the AMA's blog about why applicants/soon-to-be...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Well you're the one who said I am going to magically become a low-tier applicant by applying to SGU right? So how could anyone take your responses seriously?

Since you need translating, what he meant was that residency program directors have no way of knowing what your stats were coming into med school. They will lump all Carib grads in the same category. Meaning automatically low tier.

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[DrStephenStrange]

Why would I come back here to update lol?

To hopefully discourage/save others that may want to follow your path.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Well you're the one who said I am going to magically become a low-tier applicant by applying to SGU right? So how could anyone take your responses seriously?

If you apply to the carib you are, by definition, a low tier applicant. High-mid tier applicants don't go to the carib, they go to USMD schools.

Goodluck.