How bad is the job market in your area?

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LOL.

It's literally the opposite.

The job markets in metro areas are the WORST.

I can attest to this. I have been monitoring the job boards in major metro area in Texas as my plan was to work in BFE for a few years and then return home. However, now that I have the experience I do not even see any openings to apply to which is the worst it has been. And with a new school just now graduating people, another school to be releasing their grads in a few years, and a another new school that will be accepting students soon, the chance of returning home and having a life outside of work looks grim.

What is the point of going through 6-8 years of schooling and amassing 100-200K in loans just to either be unemployed or having to relocate to the middle of nowhere away from family, friends, and civilization? Gravy train is long gone.

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I can attest to this. I have been monitoring the job boards in major metro area in Texas as my plan was to work in BFE for a few years and then return home. However, now that I have the experience I do not even see any openings to apply to which is the worst it has been. And with a new school just now graduating people, another school to be releasing their grads in a few years, and a another new school that will be accepting students soon, the chance of returning home and having a life outside of work looks grim.

What is the point of going through 6-8 years of schooling and amassing 100-200K in loans just to either be unemployed or having to relocate to the middle of nowhere away from family, friends, and civilization? Gravy train is long gone.

Same thing is happening in Southern California. Kids are going out of state for school with the hopes of returning to the area, or going to one of the new diploma mills with the hopes of staying in the area during school and after they graduate. They're in for a very rude awakening when they realize that they will be forced to leave their SoCal bubble or be unemployed with $200k+ in loans.
 
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Same thing is happening in Southern California. Kids are going out of state for school with the hopes of returning to the area, or going to one of the new diploma mills with the hopes of staying in the area during school and after they graduate. They're in for a very rude awakening when they realize that they will be forced to leave their SoCal bubble or be unemployed with $200k+ in loans.

Hope they know there's a whole 'nother part of the state that pays much higher with a better job market just a quick 7 hours up the 5. If you really want a sure fire job market, drive 14 hours north instead of 7 (it'll still be California, I promise).


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Hope they know there's a whole 'nother part of the state that pays much higher with a better job market just a quick 7 hours up the 5. If you really want a sure fire job market, drive 14 hours north instead of 7 (it'll still be California, I promise).


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By 7 hours, do you mean up to Sacramento proper or do you mean north of that? The former seems to be a wasteland for jobs, at least in hospital. They all want experience and/or residency.

Edited: *former
 
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By 7 hours, do you mean up to Sacramento proper or do you mean north of that? The latter seems to be a wasteland for jobs, at least in hospital. They all want experience and/or residency.

One man's wasteland is another man's paradise, haha.

We've passed that point in most of California where it's either PGY-1 and up, or you're dead to me (in the best Godfather voice I can muster)


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Hope they know there's a whole 'nother part of the state that pays much higher with a better job market just a quick 7 hours up the 5. If you really want a sure fire job market, drive 14 hours north instead of 7 (it'll still be California, I promise).

Still promoting Eureka and Crescent City, eh? You on the dole from their Chamber of Commerce?
 
Still promoting Eureka and Crescent City, eh? You on the dole from their Chamber of Commerce?

Hahahah...I'm an equal California promoter.

Whether it's the expansive sandy beaches of San Diego, the hustle and bustle of Silicon Valley, the delicious farm to fork movement in the greater Bay Area, the gentle rolling hills of Napa Valley wine country, or the towering redwoods of...

Oh sorry got lost in thought there


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Hahahah...I'm an equal California promoter.

Whether it's the expansive sandy beaches of San Diego, the hustle and bustle of Silicon Valley, the delicious farm to fork movement in the greater Bay Area, the gentle rolling hills of Napa Valley wine country, or the towering redwoods of...

Oh sorry got lost in thought there


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Those in the SoCal bubble think otherwise. If you tell them to move to Bakersfield they will act as though you asked them to move to Idaho.

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Same thing is happening in Southern California. Kids are going out of state for school with the hopes of returning to the area, or going to one of the new diploma mills with the hopes of staying in the area during school and after they graduate. They're in for a very rude awakening when they realize that they will be forced to leave their SoCal bubble or be unemployed with $200k+ in loans.

I can see their rationale.... A student with bachelors in chem/bio/etc with a low 3.0 isn't going to be accepted to many other, if any other health professional schools. What else can one do with such a degree? Work in a lab for maybe 40-70K a yr? why not take a gamble, get a white coat, doctorate degree, pharmacy sounds "chill". Worst case scenario is going to REPAYE? Let someone else worry about it.... Why not go live in the sunny OC, go to Chapman or that Ketchum school, 3 yrs will be done before i know it... What do i have to lose?
 
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Those in the SoCal bubble think otherwise. If you tell them to move to Bakersfield they will act as though you asked them to move to Idaho.

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Idahos not that bad actually. I thought the same till I lived there a while. It's beautiful. In Boise, you have nature nearby so there's tons of outdoor activities, you have a city as well though not as big as others but there are pluses to living in small cities.
 
Idahos not that bad actually. I thought the same till I lived there a while. It's beautiful. In Boise, you have nature nearby so there's tons of outdoor activities, you have a city as well though not as big as others but there are pluses to living in small cities.

I agree, most of the places in flyover country are not as bad as everyone on the coasts make them out to be. However, I have met people who think that the areas around the coasts are the only places that are habitable, at least for their political and religious beliefs.
 
I agree, most of the places in flyover country are not as bad as everyone on the coasts make them out to be. However, I have met people who think that the areas around the coasts are the only places that are habitable, at least for their political and religious beliefs.

Well, hopefully they all rip each other a new one to stay there... more jobs for the rest of us!
 
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I saw this thread because of an user from the prepharm forum warning others about the job market. I noticed that there are some serious deniers out there who think he is trying to discourage them some way. I'm asking you guys, in all honesty please...is the job market really that bad? And why are there so many people on the prepharm sub forum who don't seem to believe it?


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They are children who have no real experience. Most of them are college students who have never had to work a full-time job to support themselves, their loved ones, a mortgage, car payments, and six-figure student loan debt. They have the benefit of living on hope and government loans for the next 4-8 years before they have to deal with reality.

Why do they deny the feedback from actual, practicing pharmacists? Because their professors and schools tell them something better and they choose to believe that. The fact that the school is benefiting to the tune of about $100-200k by feeding you this information never seems to cross their minds. Why do people buy lottery tickets? It's the same concept, except lottery tickets have a far greater risk:reward ratio.

There are currently jobs available for people who are willing to work them. You may have to leave the NE and move to a small southern or midwestern city, which honestly isn't that bad. Any city over 100k population is usually sufficiently livable, even if it isn't ideal. You could get your PGY2 and move to somewhere in California that isn't LA and probably find a job. This is the current day reality, however. Things get a little worse each year. More schools are opening, and while enrollment has slowed.. these schools are still filling their seats with whoever they can take. You still can't predict the future. Things may continue on this path and get worse each passing year. Schools may shut their doors and supply may balance out. Some sort of law may pass that either increases or decreases pharmacist demand. It's a gamble either way.
 
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Related but unrelated:

The Cost of a Hot Economy in California: A Severe Housing Crisis

Heather Lile, a nurse who makes $180,000 a year, commutes two hours from her home in Manteca to the San Francisco hospital where she works, 80 miles away. “I make really good money and it’s frustrating to me that I can’t afford to live close to my job,” said Ms. Lile.

Okay let's dissect this for a moment. Her salary information is public record and last updated 2015 as $135,848 base + $9,229 OT + $30,865 "other" pay (which probably means shift bonuses for working extra, which is common around here) = $175,942.

So consider her base pay, that tags her at about $65/hr base pay as an Clinical Nurse II @ UCSF. That's $11,320/mo, so the max housing payment she can afford is $4867.88/mo (43%, many middle class people run right up to the limit imposed by lenders). If you count roughly 1.08% for property taxes & like $150/mo for insurance (with 4% & 10% down payment), she can actually buy an $850,000 condo with about $150 to spare per month.

The median house price in San Francisco is $1.2M, and yes I know it's not fair comparing her 2015 salary to 2017 median house price, but if she marries/partners up, it's more than affordable on two salaries. If it's just her, she can afford to live in Daly City (30 mins away, median house price $838,000), which is much less than 2 hours away.

(I also think I replied to someone who claimed nurses were making $80/hr in sacramento but I told him to add conditions to that statement, here's my proof to it).

That is all. Welcome to the Golden State :banana:
 
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Related but unrelated:

The Cost of a Hot Economy in California: A Severe Housing Crisis



Okay let's dissect this for a moment. Her salary information is public record and last updated 2015 as $135,848 base + $9,229 OT + $30,865 "other" pay (which probably means shift bonuses for working extra, which is common around here) = $175,942.

So consider her base pay, that tags her at about $65/hr base pay as an Clinical Nurse II @ UCSF. That's $11,320/mo, so the max housing payment she can afford is $4867.88/mo (43%, many middle class people run right up to the limit imposed by lenders). If you count roughly 1.08% for property taxes & like $150/mo for insurance (with 4% & 10% down payment), she can actually buy an $850,000 condo with about $150 to spare per month.

The median house price in San Francisco is $1.2M, and yes I know it's not fair comparing her 2015 salary to 2017 median house price, but if she marries/partners up, it's more than affordable on two salaries. If it's just her, she can afford to live in Daly City (30 mins away, median house price $838,000), which is much less than 2 hours away.

(I also think I replied to someone who claimed nurses were making $80/hr in sacramento but I told him to add conditions to that statement, here's my proof to it).

That is all. Welcome to the Golden State :banana:

And why do people want to live there again?
 
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And why do people want to live there again?

If I had a CA license I'd move there in a heart beat. Make 230K for maybe 5-6 years then retire back home to flyover, USA. Get on prn at WG or WMT to keep busy only. Get health benefits from significant other's employer.
 
If I had a CA license I'd move there in a heart beat. Make 230K for maybe 5-6 years then retire back home to flyover, USA. Get on prn at WG or WMT to keep busy only. Get health benefits from significant other's employer.
They cray.
Mexican food


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Nice weather

So crazy people that like nice weather and Mexican food who want to live as cheaply as possible to make as much as possible then get out and live somewhere with much cheaper cost of living?

At one million your looking at a minimum of five bed, five bathroom homes.
 
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At one million your looking at a minimum of five bed, five bathroom homes.

Ethnic diversity
Strong labor and environmental controls
Ability to snowboard and surf on the same day
Beaches
Progressive laws and mindset (LGBTQ, etc)
Porn industry if you're into that
Lots of farms/fresh produce


And I don't need 5 bedrooms/5 bathrooms, I don't sleep and **** like Shroedinger's cat.


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Ethnic diversity
Strong labor and environmental controls
Ability to snowboard and surf on the same day
Beaches
Progressive laws and mindset (LGBTQ, etc)
Porn industry if you're into that
Lots of farms/fresh produce


And I don't need 5 bedrooms/5 bathrooms, I don't sleep and **** like Shroedinger's cat.


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Pfft...you can literally do/get all of that in New Jersey.
 
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Literally, for me at least, the only problem with California is the cost of living/money.

But I'm #blessed with the ability to make good money...so it's not really not a problem, but I'm sympathetic to those who are struggling to make it work.


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Pfft...you can literally do/get all of that in New Jersey.

I lived there...it was more expensive to live there than California! Property taxes are horrendous there.

I'd rather have higher RE cost and lower taxes, at least you can pay off a mortgage. RE taxes there are for life.

And turnpike tolls? wtf???


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Ethnic diversity
Strong labor and environmental controls
Progressive laws and mindset (LGBTQ, etc)

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I guess these aren't things I really look at when finding a place to live.

Plenty of beaches around here. I could see the surf/snowboard thing but snowboarding is easy to find. Also plenty of fresh produce.

In the end of the day it clearly must be a regional thing. I've been in the midwest my whole life and feel my family hasn't missed out on anything. We don't crave to surf, my local Mexican joints taste fine, there's no discrimination here, and its low cost of living. My house is bigger then million dollar houses there.
 
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I guess these aren't things I really look at when finding a place to live.

Plenty of beaches around here. I could see the surf/snowboard thing but snowboarding is easy to find. Also plenty of fresh produce.

I didn't wanna add this one in since it's definitely not just a California thing, but here are three reasons for me to be here:

I don't get stared at because of the color of my skin (that happened a lot in Utah, go figure).

I don't usually get asked "where are you from?" and when I answer "California" people don't go "no where are you really from" or "no where are your ancestors from."

People assume I speak English, and are not surprised when I don't have some "exotic" accent.

That's all :)


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Ethnic diversity
Strong labor and environmental controls
Ability to snowboard and surf on the same day
Beaches
Progressive laws and mindset (LGBTQ, etc)
Porn industry if you're into that
Lots of farms/fresh produce


And I don't need 5 bedrooms/5 bathrooms, I don't sleep and **** like Shroedinger's cat.


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I live in California and all the good looking people are here.


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What is the U.S known for? Its technology and Hollywood = California economy. Add that to the good weather year round...where else do you want to be?

Get this...if California is a country, it would rank number 6 in the world. Ahead of France and just right behind England.

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Question (you don't have to answer): are you white, or could pass for white/Northern European?


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I'm not looking at having that discussion. I understand I see it from a different perspective.

I'm not trying to say California isn't a great place to live, just that unless you're already used to that lifestyle, you aren't missing out on anything.
 
So crazy people that like nice weather and Mexican food who want to live as cheaply as possible to make as much as possible then get out and live somewhere with much cheaper cost of living?

At one million your looking at a minimum of five bed, five bathroom homes.

pppffftttttt, I'd prefer a starter mansion at 130$ psf in my area. I truly think 4000 square feet is just right for a family of 4 plus a dog. I will admit TX has better Mexican food than most other states when I was there. CA is probably even better.

Question (you don't have to answer): are you white, or could pass for white/Northern European?


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Yeah I've actually heard its hard to be White in California. Lots of areas where people are unable to speak a lick of English I'm told.
 
pppffftttttt, I'd prefer a starter mansion at 130$ psf in my area. I truly think 4000 square feet is just right for a family of 4 plus a dog. I will admit TX has better Mexican food than most other states when I was there. CA is probably even better.



Yeah I've actually heard its hard to be White in California. Lots of areas where people are unable to speak a lick of English I'm told.

Okay Texas has some damn good Mexican food, and we just have you guys an In n Out. If I had to move, it would probably be to TX.

And there are some deep pockets inside Chinatown SF and Little Saigon in OC that are like that. They're also good places to eat said food, so the kids who speak English are usually are front of house taking your orders.


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I still don't understand the hype. I've been there. It's nice, I guess. I enjoyed the tacos. The worst traffic ever, though. And it can't possibly be worth how much it costs to live there. Diversity doesn't intrinsically mean that much, either. If so, Jersey City is the most desirable place on the planet. You want an albino Scientologist from Chechnya that speaks Italian. Guarantee you'll find one in Jersey City. You go to the Jersey City PATH station and you'll hear like 20 different languages. But nobody says "I want to live in Jersey City." You can get ethnic food in any major city, really. Name one type of food I can't get in Philly. Not just get, but made well. And Philly is the redheaded stepchild of East Coast cities.
 
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What is the U.S known for? Its technology and Hollywood = California economy.

...and cowboys...and Broadway...and Florida...and a lot of things. Let's be honest though...if they want to do and see one thing only in the US...it's NYC and it isn't even close. I don't even like going to NYC...but it's undeniable that people love visiting it.

Get this...if California is a country, it would rank number 6 in the world. Ahead of France and just right behind England.

That's sort of cheating, though. California is a physically giant state that benefits in this sense from state lines. If you took the megalopolis from Washington, DC to Boston, MA, it would be a tenth of the size of California and the forth largest economy behind only the US, China, and Japan. It would be ahead of Germany.

East coast, still best coast. Plenty of water and no earthquakes, either. And my house only cost $247,000.
 
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Okay Texas has some damn good Mexican food, and we just have you guys an In n Out. If I had to move, it would probably be to TX.

And there are some deep pockets inside Chinatown SF and Little Saigon in OC that are like that. They're also good places to eat said food, so the kids who speak English are usually are front of house taking your orders.


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Have any of your new hires reciprocated to CA? Is the process as hard as everyone says??? Been thinking about moving to 99 corridor area for ample double time OT. Tired of this time +6 baloney OT, don't even bother with it hardly anymore.

...and cowboys...and Broadway...and Florida...and a lot of things. Let's be honest though...if they want to do and see one thing only in the US...it's NYC and it isn't even close. I don't even like going to NYC...but it's undeniable that people love visiting it.



That's sort of cheating, though. California is a physically giant state that benefits in this sense from state lines. If you took the megalopolis from Washington, DC to Boston, MA, it would be a tenth of the size of California and the forth largest economy behind only the US, China, and Japan. It would be ahead of Germany.

East coast, still best coast. Plenty of water and no earthquakes, either. And my house only cost $247,000.

No way man, gulf coast! How can you argue with the first class cities of Houston, TX and New Orleans, LA!
 
East coast, still best coast. Plenty of water and no earthquakes, either. And my house only cost $247,000.

Pff... there are earthquakes on the east coast. Remember that trembler in 2011? I was literally the only person who ducked under the table at my hospital's P&T meeting in the basement that day, and the whole eastern seaboard freaked out one that barely hit 6! I'd rather be some place that has building codes taking quakes into account than not.

And we have $247,000 houses....
https://www.zillow.com/fresno-ca/home-values/

Just wait 'til that bullet train gets built, affordable housing crisis solved!

And we have plenty of water, just not enough for water-intensive agriculture (which uses 80% of our total water usage).

But dude, snow... I never ever want to shovel snow to get to work... ever.... ever ever ever ever. Snow is for vacations.
 
...and cowboys...and Broadway...and Florida...and a lot of things. Let's be honest though...if they want to do and see one thing only in the US...it's NYC and it isn't even close. I don't even like going to NYC...but it's undeniable that people love visiting it.



That's sort of cheating, though. California is a physically giant state that benefits in this sense from state lines. If you took the megalopolis from Washington, DC to Boston, MA, it would be a tenth of the size of California and the forth largest economy behind only the US, China, and Japan. It would be ahead of Germany.

East coast, still best coast. Plenty of water and no earthquakes, either. And my house only cost $247,000.

Most of California economic power is in the coastal cities from SD to SF, not inlands.

Your northeast is way older and denser. There is still a lot more room for growth in CA coastal cities.

It is expensive here but it is a reflection of its desirability and yes, some people do make very good money.

As global warming gets worse, California coastal cities will become even more desirable. Enjoy your snowstorm while I soak in the sun.


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Pff... there are earthquakes on the east coast. Remember that trembler in 2011? I was literally the only person who ducked under the table at my hospital's P&T meeting in the basement that day, and the whole eastern seaboard freaked out one that barely hit 6! I'd rather be some place that has building codes taking quakes into account than not.

And we have $247,000 houses....
https://www.zillow.com/fresno-ca/home-values/

Just wait 'til that bullet train gets built, affordable housing crisis solved!

And we have plenty of water, just not enough for water-intensive agriculture (which uses 80% of our total water usage).

But dude, snow... I never ever want to shovel snow to get to work... ever.... ever ever ever ever. Snow is for vacations.

I slept through the earthquake.

For that cheap housing, you have to live in BFE Fresno, though.

And I just pay a dude to plow my driveway. Add that to my cost of living and I'm still way ahead.
 
Your northeast is way older and denser. There is still a lot more room for growth in CA coastal cities.

It is expensive here but it is a reflection of its desirability and yes, some people do make very good money.

As global warming gets worse, California coastal cities will become even more desirable. Enjoy your snowstorm while I soak in the sun.

Dude, I don't know about that.... think about the bolded part.

Granted, we'll probably all be dead by then, so I guess that's correct.
 
Ethnic diversity
Strong labor and environmental controls
Ability to snowboard and surf on the same day
Beaches
Progressive laws and mindset (LGBTQ, etc)
Porn industry if you're into that
Lots of farms/fresh produce


And I don't need 5 bedrooms/5 bathrooms, I don't sleep and **** like Shroedinger's cat.


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And likeminded people, where you can't a value on that. It's why you can't get me to move to CA for any amount of money, but the only place in the US that has stronger cohesion is NYC.
 
Dude, I don't know about that.... think about the bolded part.

Granted, we'll probably all be dead by then, so I guess that's correct.

I think it is all relative. Global warming is going to be much worse in the east coast.

It is weird but weather in Southern California has actually gotten better. Winter is gone....Jan to June is all spring weather.


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Are they really that good looking without plastic surgery though?

Lol, and everyone surfs. And everyone is tall and white if you believe Hollywood.


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And likeminded people, where you can't a value on that. It's why you can't get me to move to CA for any amount of money, but the only place in the US that has stronger cohesion is NYC.

Speaking of likeminded people...

'I'm done': Fed up with California, some conservatives look to Texas

Funny what stood out was the whole mandatory vaccination thing. I thought to myself, "what goober would be against that??"

Then I realized I'm exactly where I need to be.


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i still remember the days when we had 4 pharmacy schools in CA, a lot of these current pharmacy graduates would not have a chance of gaining admission based on what I read in the prepharm forum. It was not uncommon to see students with bachelors from a top UC apply 2-3 times before getting in. Also, now i am seeing lot of students applying with barely 3.0 GPA who wouldn't even waste their money on applying back in the days. The mindset is, hey i have minimum prereqs, i have a pulse, i am gona go get that doctorate make over 100K and live it up. Oh yeah, I also like "medicine", like to help people, I don't really want to be a pharmacist but I hear your can do a lot with a pharm.D., and that clinical pharmacy/provider status is going to conquer the world. Now, give me that white coat and sign me up for REPAYE.
Is this really true? The pharmacist I worked with as a tech went to a top 4 pharm school 20 years ago and said you only needed straight B's to get in. That school has an average gpa of 3.4 today.
 
Most MDs have to go wherever they happen to match into a competitive residency. Even their job options aren't as cushy as you seem to expect. Most of my MD friends have to move across the country, bust their butts for 4 years or more in residency, work where they can and MAYBE work their way back into their desired city years later.

My chemical engineering friends also had to move cross country, work oftentimes in tiny towns overseeing oil wells or general exploration, travel overseas for months at a time, etc. You seem to have an unrealistic view on how the job market works for most people.

I'm not saying the pharmacist job market is good or not a reason for concern. However, people have a skewed view on it bc 10-15 years ago pharmacists benefitted from an almost unheard of dearth of supply vs company demand. You aren't guaranteed 4 offers in your exact geographic area anymore if you have no connections, haven't distinguished yourself beyond passing with minimal competency and simply have a pulse anymore.

Welcome to the real world for 95% of the work force, including other healthcare and engineering fields. You don't deserve a dream job straight out of graduation just because you're clutching a paper that says PharmD on it.

I can respect people veering from pharmacy and being cautious about recommending the field to others (I do this often), but Christ, man. You haunt the pharm board and spam the same thing over and over. I thought you were leaving pharmacy anyway.

What are you still doing here? You've never even worked in the field and experienced the pharmacist job market first hand.
Thank you for this. My boyfriend has a masters in comp science and it STILL took him 1 year to find a job when he got laid off and we had to move to a different city. I remember when my dad got his residency MD and my entire family had to move to the boondocks for 4 years. I mean yeah after 4 we finally were able to move back home, but any competent pharmacist should be able to do the same in 4 years of making connections and building experience. I am glad people are warning people too because it puts people in the mindset of "gotta hustle in pharm school and make connections so I can get a decent job" but its so annoying when they say "go be an engineer or accountant". Not everyone likes engineering or accounting.
 
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