How can an ORM (not an URM) Stand Out?

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BlueDemForever

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Get a 3.8+ and a 35+ while doing what you think you could do if GPA and MCAT scores didn't mean anything.

:confused:
 
Get a really dark tan? This is a stupid question.

inb4AA

Gerudo said:
Get a 3.8+ and a 35+ while doing what you think you could do if GPA and MCAT scores didn't mean anything.

:confused:
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
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Nobody told you about the secret Asian ECs you need to do? Good luck now, OP.
 
It might be easier to change your stance on affirmative action and change politics.

Do Jews provide better care than Mormons? Do African American docs refuse to see Asian patients?

In reality, I want the physician that provides the best care regardless of his/her race/religion/politics. I'm from the Deep South, and if I need heart surgery, I'll take the best even if this person were an African American female feminist who sacrificed cats to the Gods of Pagan whatever. Substitute any other race/political view/religion you want into that last sentence and it still holds true. Good medical care is good medical care. Good people are still good people.

I don't believe that anyone should get a pass over a more qualified applicant because of their views, color, etc.

As it stands, male Asians need probably the highest stats to get into medical school in the US. You could do 5,000 EC's, but a sub 30 MCAT may kill you.

My medical school had a URM become the face of our school to appear like we were diverse - we weren't. Forget that she failed a year, was socially awkward, and could not keep up. Diversity has become more important. I was upset a little by this as the school chose her over many other slightly less URM's including an AA male friend who entered with a PhD. Dude was genius, could have entered any field, and was well liked. Being a man, he was never included at special events, interviews, etc.

Computer programs can allow admissions to weed out applicants below certain stats in different races. If you are in the ORM category, perform better or realistically you may be cut. I know this to be true because I got to be involved in admissions. One year, fewer URM's were accepted, and some people in admin were told to fix it next year or search for a new job. Next year, we had people accepted with very low 20's MCAT's, and they were not Asian or Caucasian males.

Unfortunately the med school game has gotten harder yearly lately. The economy has probably contributed to this. There are so many applicants that some schools don't even look at EC's before narrowing done many applicants by stats, race, etc. Then they look for publications, volunteering in 3rd world countries, phd's, CEO's of non-profits, etc. Obviously not everyone has those, so they continue down the list of lesser and lesser EC's until they fill interview spots.

The best EC's though will rarely make up for scores. A great friend of mine from college is an AA male. Great gpa, superb EC's, but poor MCAT. It took him 4 years to get accepted and better that MCAT. Yes, he interviews excellently. He struggles, but he is on path to graduate. Very compassionate guy though who is loved by patients.
 
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^^ tl;dr

280px-Minstrel_PosterBillyVanWare_edit.jpg


blackface is your friend
 
TexasPhysician said:
It might be easier to change your stance on affirmative action and change politics.

Do Jews provide better care than Mormons? Do African American docs refuse to see Asian patients?

In reality, I want the physician that provides the best care regardless of his/her race/religion/politics. I'm from the Deep South, and if I need heart surgery, I'll take the best even if this person were an African American female feminist who sacrificed cats to the Gods of Pagan whatever. Substitute any other race/political view/religion you want into that last sentence and it still holds true. Good medical care is good medical care. Good people are still good people.

I don't believe that anyone should get a pass over a more qualified applicant because of their views, color, etc.

As it stands, male Asians need probably the highest stats to get into medical school in the US. You could do 5,000 EC's, but a sub 30 MCAT may kill you.

My medical school had a URM become the face of our school to appear like we were diverse - we weren't. Forget that she failed a year, was socially awkward, and could not keep up. Diversity has become more important. I was upset a little by this as the school chose her over many other slightly less URM's including an AA male friend who entered with a PhD. Dude was genius, could have entered any field, and was well liked. Being a man, he was never included at special events, interviews, etc.

Computer programs can allow admissions to weed out applicants below certain stats in different races. If you are in the ORM category, perform better or realistically you may be cut. I know this to be true because I got to be involved in admissions. One year, fewer URM's were accepted, and some people in admin were told to fix it next year or search for a new job. Next year, we had people accepted with very low 20's MCAT's, and they were not Asian or Caucasian males.

Unfortunately the med school game has gotten harder yearly lately. The economy has probably contributed to this. There are so many applicants that some schools don't even look at EC's before narrowing done many applicants by stats, race, etc. Then they look for publications, volunteering in 3rd world countries, phd's, CEO's of non-profits, etc. Obviously not everyone has those, so they continue down the list of lesser and lesser EC's until they fill interview spots.

The best EC's though will rarely make up for scores. A great friend of mine from college is an AA male. Great gpa, superb EC's, but poor MCAT. It took him 4 years to get accepted and better that MCAT. Yes, he interviews excellently. He struggles, but he is on path to graduate. Very compassionate guy though who is loved by patients.
Click to expand...

Well said. This post should be stickied before new URM threads pop up.
 
I think its silly that people are bashing the OP and starting AA debates before answering the initial question. To the OP, you raised a legitimate question, it's just that it's a question that has been answered before. You will most likely not get any useful/serious advice in this thread so before making threads, always browse the forums and MD Apps first. you'll definitely find profiles of successful ORM applicants and that should give you an idea. The main idea is that you should find something you're passionate about and see where it leads you.

And no, going back to your parents homeland to volunteer would not look bad. But there may be better use of your time in your own country.
 
Teach for America, but I hear that they hate people who aren't STEM majors from top colleges.

D-bags. It's a shame, because I would have liked to do it.
 
goofball said:
Teach for America, but I hear that they hate people who aren't STEM majors from top colleges.

D-bags. It's a shame, because I would have liked to do it.
Click to expand...

....and that is becoming quite common as well.

Roll the Big 6 and that will really make you stand out.
 
goofball said:
Teach for America, but I hear that they hate people who aren't STEM majors from top colleges.

D-bags. It's a shame, because I would have liked to do it.
Click to expand...

Only one person who won it from my school last year was in a STEM field. People often complain about things and create narratives that are built on anecdotes.

Not unlike this perceived belief that there's something special that must be done to stand out as an ORM. The same things are impressive for pretty much every group. Great grades, great MCAT, great research, great leadership, great LOR, etc etc. Rest assured that any demographic will sufficiently impress adcoms with a 3.9 and 40 MCAT.

As far as standing out...you're not going to do anything new at this point. Just do what you do well and you'll get attention.
 
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Military experience
 
I thought you already had this figured out?


BlueDemForever said:
From the threads I have read on here, a few things have stood out to me as being essential to anyone who is aiming to get into a top 10 medical school. Here is a list of what I think is the golden standard:

1. A well-rounded college cirriculum (including 2 years of a foreign language and social sciences courses) with the general prerequisites (one year of general chemistry with lab, one year of biology with lab, one year of organic chemistry with lab, one year of physics with lab, one year of expository writing, one semester of calculus, one semester of statistics, one semester of psychology, one semester of sociology, and one semester of biochemistry) completed and a few higher level science classes even if you are not a science major. If you go to a top-tier school, you should be in the top 10% of your school (with a 3.85+ cGPA and a 3.9+ sGPA) but if you attend a large public university, you need to be at or near the top of your class (with a 3.95+ cGPA and a 4.0+ sGPA).

2. A 52+ (39+ old) MCAT for the MD program and a 56+ MCAT (42+ old) for the MD/PhD.

3. 2 years (on a weekly basis) of scientific research that doesn't have to be medical but should show a true passion for the subject before your senior year, a couple publications, and possibly a first-name authorship on a paper.

4. 2 years (on a weekly basis) of clinical experience such as volunteering in a hospital (with direct patient contact) and shadowing for at least a year prior to your senior year.

5. 2-3 summers (depending on whether or not you put your junior summer plans on your application) that have been well-spent completing a competitive scientific internship (NIH, Mayo, AMGEN, etc.), volunteering in a foreign country, and/or researching at your own college.

6. 3-5 excellent recommendations from science professors, internship supervisors, doctors whom you shadowed, and/or your school pre-med committee that reflect on a stellar academic/work record and a great relationship.

7. Essays that reflect on a unique college experience, inspiring personal struggles, a passion for medicine not only on the scientific side but also in the anthropic sense, a smart hint at a medical specialty, and show that the author is mature enough and both emotionally and mentally ready for medical school.

8. An application that conveys 3 years (on a weekly basis) of strong involvement in 5-6 clubs (pre-med society, debate, school newspaper, cultural clubs, a politics club, student government, etc.), some sort of physical/athletic activity (Division 1 is not for everyone so alternatives are intramural sports, table tennis, fencing, martial arts, etc.), and leadership in any 2-3 clubs (founder, president, VP, or Secretary).

9. 2 years of work experience in a bookstore, a concession stand, a student newspaper, a gift shop, etc. to show by balancing academics with other obligations and by separating intellectual acticities from a job done simply to earn money that your desire for medicine goes beyond financial interest.

10. If and when you get an interview, allow a true person to emerge from the papers who has more than impressive stats. Be confident, humble, and most of all interested in the school and the interviewer himself. Show you have some sort of unique personal talent (playing an instrument, speaking a foreign language, varsity athletics, etc.) and a set of fun leisurely activities (flying a plane, following sports or politics, dancing, singing, painting, writing short stories, etc.) that will make you fit in very well with your peers both inside the classroom and in non-school activities. Make the interviewer want you badly at his/her institution or at least really like you personally.

This list is my personal belief of the combination of things what will give you an excellent chance to get into one or more top 10 medical schools. Please give your opinion on it as well as other things thay can help.
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Naturally, as we're pushed to study longer by our parents, we tend to have higher objective stats such as GPA and MCAT scores
Click to expand...

tumblr_m6v00gDdgj1qery84.jpg


goofball said:
Teach for America, but I hear that they hate people who aren't STEM majors from top colleges.

D-bags. It's a shame, because I would have liked to do it.
Click to expand...

So what's stopping you from signing up for the Peace Corps to do essentially the same thing?
 
Yeah, that comment confused me(the OP one)

Hell, there are a good amount of parents who are not involved with their child's schoolwork. They are concerned about their kid's 2nd pregnancy and coke addiction. And not the Coca-Cola kind! :p

College kids are independent enough to not need mommy and daddy to motivate them to do well on the MCAT or in college classes. If they do, maybe they aren't invested enough to pursue that goal :idea:
 
BlueDemForever said:
Naturally, as [we ORMs are] pushed to study longer by our parents, we tend to have higher objective stats such as GPA and MCAT scores.
Click to expand...

OP, if things like this fall out of your mouth when you open it, then you may want to keep it shut as much as possible during interviews.
 
Pons Asinorum said:
I thought you already had this figured out?
Click to expand...

Lol thanks for grabbing that gem. Is this the same OP who was going to get a physics PhD to be more competitive for top 3 schools?

:smuggrin:
 
BlueDemForever said:
Guys, we hear so much about medical schools taking URM's (African Americans, Latino Americans, and Native Americans) with lower numbers or slightly less extra-curricular activities. First of all, I'm a firm believer in affirmative action and a solid Dem, so I'm not bashing the URM's. However, as there is a group of minorities that need more representation in medicine, there's without a doubt a group of minorities who are represented many times more than the proportion of their population in the USA. I'm really curious how ORM's (East Asian Americans, South Asian American, Jewish Americans) can stand out. Naturally, as we're pushed to study longer by our parents, we tend to have higher objective stats such as GPA and MCAT scores. These days, we're (ORM's) all pursuing EC's at a very high level, and so getting into top medical schools is getting harder for us. Beyond high numbers and typical EC's, what can an ORM do to separate himself from the overall group of applicants and then ORM applicants? Do med schools at all care about having a diversity of religion? Also, does volunteering in the country where your parents come from help or hurt you? Finally, could a few examples be given of ORM's who distinguished themselves enough to get accepted into top-tier medical schools?
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Jewish Americans should not be lumped with Asians during med school admissions process, as they benefit the most. They are "whites" during school admissions but at all other times they want to be called "Jewish." As a result, they aren't at a disadvantage like Asians.
 
metview said:
Jewish Americans should not be lumped with Asians during med school admissions process, as they benefit the most. They are "whites" during school admissions but at all other times they want to be called "Jewish." As a result, they aren't at a disadvantage like Asians.
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lolwut. First they take over the media. Then they take over the world government. Now they start muscling out the asians by using selective group naming? When will it stop...

10n5bwz.jpg
 
Pons Asinorum said:
lolwut. First they take over the media. Then they take over the world government. Now they start muscling out the asians by using selective group naming? When will it stop...
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Also considering "Jewish" is not an ethnic category for census or AMCAS purposes I'm not sure where the conspiracy is coming from...
 
Pons Asinorum said:
lolwut. First they take over the media. Then they take over the world government. Now they start muscling out the asians by using selective group naming? When will it stop...

10n5bwz.jpg
Click to expand...

No one said they were muscling out the asians. Just pointing out how broken this system is. Jewish people make up less than 3% of the population (less than asians) yet there are more of them in medical school. So much for creating a physician population that matches the diverse population they serve. :laugh:
 
Do I count as URM if I'm 1/64 native american? I wish
 
metview said:
No one said they were muscling out the asians. Just pointing out how broken this system is. Jewish people make up less than 3% of the population (less than asians) yet there are more of them in medical school. So much for creating a physician population that matches the diverse population they serve. :laugh:
Click to expand...

By all means, please tell me what your source is for saying that they make up a larger relative proportion of the medical school population than they do law or business? And how are Jewish people getting into med school at rates higher than their population fraction says they should mean the system is broken? By all means, explain to me how the system should be remodeled to ensure that the Jews stop stealing seats that other religious groups deserve?
 
Pons Asinorum said:
By all means, please tell me what your source is for saying that they make up a larger relative proportion of the medical school population than they do law or business? And how are Jewish people getting into med school at rates higher than their population fraction says they should mean the system is broken? By all means, explain to me how the system should be remodeled to ensure that the Jews stop stealing seats that other religious groups deserve?
Click to expand...

We can set up quotas, so each school can only have a certain number of Jews. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?
 
All you ORMs are weird. Haven't you noticed the only people taking your spots are you? Asians and Whites make up 75% of matriculants. Now its gotten to the point where White students are turning against each other! Now Jews are "taking spots"? Stop it! Stop the discrimination.
 
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