How can anyone go OOS or private?

[SoundofSilver]

With tuition at private and OOS schools averaging 45-50,000 per year and increasing exponentially every year, how is it a sane decision to take out 250,000 to 300,000 in loans (factoring in living expenses, books, fees, etc.) to go to one of these schools???

I understand if it's your only choice, but if you're fortunate enough to also be accepted in state, how can anyone justify going to one of these schools (even if it's highly ranked) instead of their state school

Is it really worth 100,000+ more to go to a top 20 private school vs. a much cheaper (but still way too expensive) state school? It definitely doesn't seem like it... especially when you factor in interest rates and the uncertainty over the future of physicians' reimbursements

Or does everyone just have rich parents?

 

[VikingLegacy]

baleeted

 

[ronaldo23]

With tuition at private and OOS schools averaging 45-50,000 per year and increasing exponentially every year, how is it a sane decision to take out 250,000 to 300,000 in loans (factoring in living expenses, books, fees, etc.) to go to one of these schools???

I understand if it's your only choice, but if you're fortunate enough to also be accepted in state, how can anyone justify going to one of these schools (even if it's highly ranked) instead of their state school

Is it really worth 100,000+ more to go to a top 20 private school vs. a much cheaper (but still way too expensive) state school? It definitely doesn't seem like it... especially when you factor in interest rates and the uncertainty over the future of physicians' reimbursements

Or does everyone just have rich parents?

I think it's insane to do if you are going into primary care. But for some people, the private may be a better fit, and they will do better at the school than if they are unhappy at the state option. Plus, for those interested in academic medicine, going to the prestigious name brand schools can help.

 

[SusGob711]

I wonder this about both OOS, private, AND Caribbean schools. When it comes down to it, I'm not too good to go to a Caribbean medical school if that's my only means to an MD but what's the point if I'm going to drown in debt until I'm 45?

As far as the OOS thing--a lot of people will choose to bite the bullet the first year because after that they are eligible for instate tuition. Other than that, you got me...

 

[Geekchick921]

You could also live in FABULOUS Pennsylvania where even the state schools' IS tuition is over $35,000 a year.

 

[DrYoda]

Non-loan financial aid; the number they have on their website is irrelevant to the individual.

As far as the OOS thing--a lot of people will choose to bite the bullet the first year because after that they are eligible for instate tuition. Other than that, you got me...

Only true for a handful of states, most you get jammed up paying 4 years OOS.

 

[Donnie1310]

I'm going to a school that is a good fit for me, be it IS or OOS. I refuse to be miserable for four years, especially with how rigorous med school is, because it's cheaper.

Did that for undergrad. Never again.

 

[SusGob711]

I didn't realize the instate tuition policy after being OOS/1 year was a state thing. Which states do this?

 

[StephBee]

It'll depend on the school. UMich for instance, does'nt allow you to claim residency if you're only there for school.

 

[SusGob711]

Are there any schools that do this in the tri state area surrounding Ohio? If I can't get in here I'd like to stay close--however if I can get instate tuition farther away I just might be tempted to move

 

[DrYoda]

I didn't realize the instate tuition policy after being OOS/1 year was a state thing. Which states do this?

I few years ago: OH, NY and I think FL. Not sure if any rules have changed since then.

It'll depend on the school.

it depends on state legislation.

 

[theWUbear]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=749810

 

[wanderer]

I few years ago: OH, NY and I think FL. Not sure if any rules have changed since then.


it depends on state legislation.

I think you can't switch in Fl. But you can switch in OH, NY, NJ (if you can get in), CT, and I think that's about it.

 

[eablackwell]

I think you can't switch in Fl. But you can switch in OH, NY, NJ (if you can get in), CT, and I think that's about it.

You definitely can't switch in Florida. However, if you become engaged to/marry a Floridian while in med school, you can claim residency. We were told a story about this at an interview I went to earlier this year.

 

[denco88]

Some states do not give you much of a break... I can attend school in oklahoma for only 5,000 dollars a year more than it will cost me to go to school in New Jersey... Factor in the cost of living and Oklahoma becomes a much cheaper option

 

[sustentacular]

Some states don't have a public allopathic med school. RI, NH, and ME to name a few.

 

[Champaigne]

i think it's insane to do if you are going into primary care. But for some people, the private may be a better fit, and they will do better at the school than if they are unhappy at the state option. Plus, for those interested in academic medicine, going to the prestigious name brand schools can help.

+1

 

[Champaigne]

I think it's insane to do if you are going into primary care. But for some people, the private may be a better fit, and they will do better at the school than if they are unhappy at the state option. Plus, for those interested in academic medicine, going to the prestigious name brand schools can help.

For some specialties it doesn't matter one way or another but for more competitive specialties its an important factor. Additionally, though I would go to my state school if it was the only place I got in I really didn't get a good vibe at the school. IMO if you get in at an inexpensive school that just doesn't feel right another 100,000 dollars of debt is preferable over being miserable for four years. BTW I will be paying for the entire thing...not "rich parents" as the OP suggested.

 

[quiltlady]

If you are accepted only at a private school, you have no option. Some states have no med schools, or perhaps only one. It may be that you get scholarships which bring the cost down to less than your state school. There are more scholarships than the pre-med knows about.. You find out after you have been accepted and matriculated.

 

[AH3]

Not all private schools are hugely expensive. Also, some people may not be able to get into their in-state school and OOS is the only way to go. It's very competitive to get in at the California schools, so many qualified students are forced to go elsewhere. Like others said, some schools give you in-state status after a year so that certainly helps.

 

[circulus vitios]

You could also live in FABULOUS Pennsylvania where even the state schools' IS tuition is over $35,000 a year.

I hate this state.

 

[wanderer]

The OP specifically asked about people who do have that choice. I personally might choose a private school over a state school merely because I might enjoy the location of one over the other. Also some schools would be more enjoyable than others. Med school is 4 years of your life, so what is the worth of 4 years of peace of mind? If it's more than the difference between the cost of the two schools then it's likely worth it to go to the private school.

 

[Geekchick921]

I hate this state.

At least we have cheesesteaks, soft pretzels and tastycakes. Yes, I know that that all these things are Philly-centered, along with five of our medical schools.

 

[Dmannn]

Money isn't everything playa, there are other circumstances that influence life choices.

 

[eablackwell]

At least we have cheesesteaks, soft pretzels and tastycakes. Yes, I know that that all these things are Philly-centered, along with five of our medical schools.

I had to google tastykakes. I thought this was just some crazy lie perpetuated by shows like south park. OMG...I MUST have a tastykake...

 

[imer]

...

 

[45408]

With tuition at private and OOS schools averaging 45-50,000 per year and increasing exponentially every year, how is it a sane decision to take out 250,000 to 300,000 in loans (factoring in living expenses, books, fees, etc.) to go to one of these schools???

Or does everyone just have rich parents?

1. Yes, rich parents for some people
2. Military
3. Working spouse

I fell into the latter category, so my only debt was for tuition. My wife paid all of my rent and living expenses. Quite a few of my classmates were married - probably half or more by the end of med school.

 

[kiwifruit487]

Some of us have no choice... (Even when I have good odds at my state school compared to my actual interviews/acceptances, what the heck?!?!)

But since the questions asks for when you HAVE a choice...

I believe medicine is truly a calling. You don't do it for the money. You don't do it for the fancy BMW you are hoping to afford. Or that mansion in the suburbs. You do it because you don't mind getting in the grime and making someone's life just a little better everyday. Even as a primary care physician, sure you don't make a lot, and that 300k debt could last most of your life, but you can still live comfortably. Most doctors I know don't go hungry or homeless.

Anyway... medical school is 4 years of your life. Just need to pick a place that will make you happy and not drive you insane in those 4 years. If it takes a private school, then so be it.

Personally, I realize that I may be that person with 300k debt and earning the very least as maybe a pediatrician. Who knows what might happen in 4 years, but at least I'll be doing something I love.

 

[gravitywave]

Non-loan financial aid; the number they have on their website is irrelevant to the individual.

it's this. for many people with a choice, the private school is actually the superior financial decision once grant awards are rolled out. That's why it's foolish to relinquish acceptances until you can compare everyone on the level. I'm sure there are people out there who have done this because they thought they hated a school at interview, when who knows? maybe things would have looked better in a greener light

and then, there are those who only get into one school (yes, these folks are the majority, despite what SDN would have you believe). it truly is a luxury to have a choice of schools to attend.

 

[afob100]

it's this. for many people with a choice, the private school is actually the superior financial decision once grant awards are rolled out. That's why it's foolish to relinquish acceptances until you can compare everyone on the level. I'm sure there are people out there who have done this because they thought they hated a school at interview, when who knows? maybe things would have looked better in a greener light

and then, there are those who only get into one school (yes, these folks are the majority, despite what SDN would have you believe). it truly is a luxury to have a choice of schools to attend.

This is the key. Not only for private schools but OOS schools sometimes offer amazing financial aid. UVa for one has automatic scholarships available to everyone who shows need - this may make it almost the same price as my state school.

 

[Playa]

With tuition at private and OOS schools averaging 45-50,000 per year and increasing exponentially every year, how is it a sane decision to take out 250,000 to 300,000 in loans (factoring in living expenses, books, fees, etc.) to go to one of these schools???

I understand if it's your only choice, but if you're fortunate enough to also be accepted in state, how can anyone justify going to one of these schools (even if it's highly ranked) instead of their state school

Is it really worth 100,000+ more to go to a top 20 private school vs. a much cheaper (but still way too expensive) state school? It definitely doesn't seem like it... especially when you factor in interest rates and the uncertainty over the future of physicians' reimbursements

Or does everyone just have rich parents?

Its called being able to payback your loans. I suggest you look into it.

 

[MrLahey]

I think a lot of students' parents are doctors(it's a very ancestral occupation)

And some people can only get in to a private school, sooooo the only way they can become a doctor is to go where they are accepted, regardless of finances.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Souther Illinois OOS tuition: 80k/year. LOL



80k/year.
375k for medical school+expenses.

 

[MacVA]

Southern Illinois OOS tuition: 80k/year. LOL
80k/year.
375k for medical school+expenses.

SUI only takes in state applicants.

The whole "prestige of the medical school" thing really gets my blood flowing. There are plenty of people from state medical schools that do residencies at Top 5 medical schools. Just as there is a lot of medical students from Top 5 medical schools who do primary care.

Believe it or not, alot of people enjoy primary care and easily could have matched into a more compeititive speciality.

 

[Geekchick921]

I had to google tastykakes. I thought this was just some crazy lie perpetuated by shows like south park. OMG...I MUST have a tastykake...

Nobody bakes a cake as tasty as a Tastykake.

^ That is the jingle.

 

[boggvir]

Um, loans are now irrelevant

 

[courtnes]

You could also live in FABULOUS Pennsylvania where even the state schools' IS tuition is over $35,000 a year.

AND where they don't have in-state preference... except at the PRIVATE schools.

 

[jadealer]

You could also live in FABULOUS Pennsylvania where even the state schools' IS tuition is over $35,000 a year.

I hate this state.

+2 - PA is such a horrible state for applying even though it has 7 medical schools. PSU takes majority OOS AND charges over $35K like Geekchick said. The only PA school which takes majority IS is the new school, TCMC, and its still over $35K/year. >/ Stupid PA gov not providing any funding.

At least we have cheesesteaks, soft pretzels and tastycakes. Yes, I know that that all these things are Philly-centered, along with five of our medical schools.

Actually only 4 of the 5 are somewhat PA affliated. Jefferson shows IS preference for Delaware residents.. go figure. lol

 

[CaliGirl14]

California

 

[hiyaman]

For some specialties it doesn't matter one way or another but for more competitive specialties its an important factor. Additionally, though I would go to my state school if it was the only place I got in I really didn't get a good vibe at the school. IMO if you get in at an inexpensive school that just doesn't feel right another 100,000 dollars of debt is preferable over being miserable for four years. BTW I will be paying for the entire thing...not "rich parents" as the OP suggested.

What do you mean doesn't feel right? Also how would one know if it feels right before going to school there?

 

[wanderer]

+2 - PA is such a horrible state for applying even though it has 7 medical schools. PSU takes majority OOS AND charges over $35K like Geekchick said. The only PA school which takes majority IS is the new school, TCMC, and its still over $35K/year. >/ Stupid PA gov not providing any funding.



Actually only 4 of the 5 are somewhat PA affliated. Jefferson shows IS preference for Delaware residents.. go figure. lol

The 3 least competitive Philly schools (as well as UPenn to a smaller degree) all show favoritism to PA/Philly residents.

 

[rhesuspieces]

What do you mean doesn't feel right? Also how would one know if it feels right before going to school there?

Interview day, second look weekend, talking to students, reading about the curriculum, exploring the city around the school...what do you mean how do you know if it feels right? How do you plan on choosing a med school?

 

[Geekchick921]

+2 - PA is such a horrible state for applying even though it has 7 medical schools. PSU takes majority OOS AND charges over $35K like Geekchick said. The only PA school which takes majority IS is the new school, TCMC, and its still over $35K/year. >/ Stupid PA gov not providing any funding.

Eh, actually, I think most, if not all, of the schools are filled with more PA residents than any other state, they just may not be more than 50% PA residents. Plenty of them also say they have an (albeit small) in-state preference. But yeah, even PSU, TCMC, Temple and others are all over $35K/year. Pretty much all the schools here are over $40K, even the ones that offer a tuition cut for IS students.

Actually only 4 of the 5 are somewhat PA affliated. Jefferson shows IS preference for Delaware residents.. go figure. lol

Yeah, they have an arrangement with Delaware, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure there are more PA residents in the class than anyone else.

 

[orion333]

Many people who get accepted to med school come from wealthy families and have been supported all their lives by their parents, so they don't really think about future debt too much. I think people who pay their own bills and/or have kids are much more financially savvy than those who do not. Plus, getting into med school is put on such a high pedestal that the financial reality is a distant second or even third consideration for many who will choose an expensive, prestigious school over a solid state school.

 

[samuraiR]

Many people who get accepted to med school come from wealthy families and have been supported all their lives by their parents, so they don't really think about future debt too much.

are you high?

 

[glasshalfMD]

Many people who get accepted to med school come from wealthy families and have been supported all their lives by their parents, so they don't really think about future debt too much. I think people who pay their own bills and/or have kids are much more financially savvy than those who do not. Plus, getting into med school is put on such a high pedestal that the financial reality is a distant second or even third consideration for many who will choose an expensive, prestigious school over a solid state school.

I agree with this.

My family is encouraging me to go out of state because I've lived and gone to school in the same place all my life - but being the one who is trying to finish paying off her undergrad loans (23k) in two years while working as an RA with a crappy starting salary, I think I know best what's right for me in terms of cost. It's like a microcosm of future-me: 200k in debt with a resident and then a primary care salary . Goobers.

 

[Musclemass]

Many people who get accepted to med school come from wealthy families and have been supported all their lives by their parents, so they don't really think about future debt too much. I think people who pay their own bills and/or have kids are much more financially savvy than those who do not. Plus, getting into med school is put on such a high pedestal that the financial reality is a distant second or even third consideration for many who will choose an expensive, prestigious school over a solid state school.

This is nonsense, plain and simple. Especially the comment that people who have kids are more financially savvy.

PS - people go to the schools they can get into and deal with whatever that requires. School loans are usually small compared to the mortgages everyone will ultimately have for their homes, yet it's a topic that seems to attract dramatic comments.

 

[orion333]

are you high?

high on life, samurai!

 

[orion333]

This is nonsense, plain and simple.

hey musclemass, check out the data:

1) " More than 3/4 of medical students come from the top two quintiles of family income," according to this 2008 report.

Source: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http://www4.utsouthwestern.edu/stuaff/STUINFO/pdfs/presentations/SGSA2009SES.ppt&rct=j&q=socioeconomic status of medical students&ei=WK3RTJD3DMb_lge5r9zDDA&usg=AFQjCNEmdTc-3uNLn9xXLxg1dd4SsfTyEw&cad=rja

2) And from a 2008 NEJM study: "more than half of U.S. medical students come from families in the top quintile for family income. "

Source: www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0808520

3) And finally, according to a 2002 Canadian study: "Canadian medical students differ significantly from the general population, particularly with regard to ethnic background and socioeconomic status ... Medical students are much more likely than the general Canadian population to come from urban areas, come from neighbourhoods with high median family incomes and be children of well-educated, professional parents. "

Source: http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/8/1029


'nuff said.

 

[Geekchick921]

Detailed stats of economic stats in the United States.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_DP3YR3&-ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

Median family income ~ $63,000. 74.87 million families means about 30 million of them make up the top two quintiles. The income for those families starts around $75,000. That could easily be a lot of parents both working full-time for less than $40,000 a year. HARDLY wealthy.

The top quintile starts between $100,000 and $150,000, which isn't "wealthy" in plenty parts of the country, and again, could easily be from a pair of fulltime working parents each making a solid middle-class wage of $50,000 and $75,000 each. Is that comfortable? Probably, but it's not like they're using $100 bills for toilet paper, and it's certainly not enough to foot the bill for a private medical school on their own in most cases.

Nuff said.