How can anyone go OOS or private?

[Musclemass]

Orion, there are a lot of things one can use family income level to predict. You can predict which kids are most likely to graduate from high school. Or to have two front teeth at age 40. Or to be arrested. Or indeed, to go to medical school. Or even to college.

Among the many things you can't predict is whether or not a family is supportive of their kids' endeavors, in whatever means they have to be supportive. (I've known many "rich kids" who were partially or entirely on their own financially, and many "poor kids" whose parents have taken second jobs to help pay for their education.). To say that fortunate kids have no financial understanding, concern about debt, or do anything other than choose schools for prestige is simply ridiculous. Your generalized assumptions struck me as no less ignorant than racial generalizations some people make.

What I liked best was that you believe people with children are more financially savvy. That one needs no comment from me.

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[ILikeDrugs]

SUI only takes in state applicants.

I didn't think that that would be the case since AMCAS lists OOS tuition for that school.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, many families of applicants are in the top quintile but there are many who at the tippy top of that pile.... I've interviewed many applicants who come from 2 physician households and some others who have parents who are in law and business and who have permanent addresses on streets where the homes start at $1 million (with a signficant decline in value over the past couple years but still....) so we are seeing a substantial proportion of medical students who "come from money" and for whom the cost of education is not frightening.

Some applicants see service in an underserved areas as a way of paying off all or part of their loan or avoiding loans through military enlistment.

Detailed stats of economic stats in the United States.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servle...-ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

Median family income ~ $63,000. 74.87 million families means about 30 million of them make up the top two quintiles. The income for those families starts around $75,000. That could easily be a lot of parents both working full-time for less than $40,000 a year. HARDLY wealthy.

The top quintile starts between $100,000 and $150,000, which isn't "wealthy" in plenty parts of the country, and again, could easily be from a pair of fulltime working parents each making a solid middle-class wage of $50,000 and $75,000 each. Is that comfortable? Probably, but it's not like they're using $100 bills for toilet paper, and it's certainly not enough to foot the bill for a private medical school on their own in most cases.

Nuff said.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I didn't have it as bad as most but my mom was on food stamps and such for a while and it's quite frightening how rare that is in terms of the medical application pool from my experience. I can totally see why med schools try to put so much effort in socioeconomic diversity...I mean those are the communities that need the most help and they aren't really represented well in terms of physicians.

 

[SoundofSilver]

Um, loans are now irrelevant

That sounds amazing, and it also seems like most doctors would qualify as long as they are working at a 501(c)3 hospital (which most hospitals are) or a university hospital. Pay 15% of your income towards loans for ten years (including residency) under IBR, and have the remaining 100,000 to 200,000+ forgiven, tax free under PSLF.

But... there's really no guarantee that plan won't be heavily amended by the time the first people are supposed to benefit (which is in 2017). And there hasn't even been an application developed. The government can change the rules whenever they want to... just look at how they doubled the interest rates on student loans recently and the fact that residents can no longer have their loans deferred (although the new income based repayment plan basically remedies this).

Sounds too good to be true which means it probably is

 

[bravofleet4]

i don't quite understand the problem. i mean you spend about $100k in undergrad over 4 years. if you went straight into the work force and were VERY LUCKY you'll get a job that pays between 70k-100k.

if you get into medical school you'll spend about 200-250k. if you do go into primary care you'll make between 125-200k per year.

what makes you think medical school is impossible if you think undergrad is.

 

[pullupthepeople]

its the air force for me! but its not just about the money... millitary service will help me reach certain goals.

and to the people who grew up dirt poor like I did... I am so proud of you. I know how hard it is to get to this point, and you all are amazing. someday when we are all awesome doctors, we should search out some poor kids like ourselves and tell them that anything is possible, you can be a doctor too, and come shadow me sometime. welfare brats of america, unite!

 

[SoundofSilver]

i don't quite understand the problem. i mean you spend about $100k in undergrad over 4 years. if you went straight into the work force and were VERY LUCKY you'll get a job that pays between 70k-100k.

if you get into medical school you'll spend about 200-250k. if you do go into primary care you'll make between 125-200k per year.

what makes you think medical school is impossible if you think undergrad is.

I see what you're saying but according to a study done in 2009: median income for someone with a bachelors degree is 50k w/ an average educational debt of 23,000. This person will have also been making this salary for 8 to 10 years by the time the doctor gets out of residency (i.e. a lot of interest accruing on those medical school loans).

200-250k in educational debt for a salary of 125-200 is on a different level in terms of repayment (remember 6.8% interest). Doctors graduating only ten years ago had an average debt of less than half that with higher salaries (adjusted for inflation). Basically, the returns on the investment aren't as good as they once were.

Obviously you don't go into medicine for the money... but I can see how having the burden of massive debt on your shoulders can add stress to a profession that is already extremely stressful.

Lets face it... the cost of education in this country is a big problem that's only going to keep getting worse. By 2033, the average medical student is expected to graduate with 750,000 in debt (AAMC projection). That's only 20 years away.

https://services.aamc.org/publicati...rsion103.pdf&prd_id=212&prv_id=256&pdf_id=103

 

[gujuDoc]

I few years ago: OH, NY and I think FL. Not sure if any rules have changed since then.


it depends on state legislation.

Actually Florida did away with this. They no longer allow you to do such. But def. NY still lets you do such. I was told that Fl. stopped doing this when I was at my UCF interview cuz we had some OOSers there.

 

[afob100]

I see what you're saying but according to a study done in 2009: median income for someone with a bachelors degree is 50k w/ an average educational debt of 23,000. This person will have also been making this salary for 8 to 10 years by the time the doctor gets out of residency (i.e. a lot of interest accruing on those medical school loans).

200-250k in educational debt for a salary of 125-200 is on a different level in terms of repayment (remember 6.8% interest). Doctors graduating only ten years ago had an average debt of less than half that with higher salaries (adjusted for inflation). Basically, the returns on the investment aren't as good as they once were.

Obviously you don't go into medicine for the money... but I can see how having the burden of massive debt on your shoulders can add stress to a profession that is already extremely stressful.

Lets face it... the cost of education in this country is a big problem that's only going to keep getting worse. By 2033, the average medical student is expected to graduate with 750,000 in debt (AAMC projection). That's only 20 years away.

https://services.aamc.org/publicati...rsion103.pdf&prd_id=212&prv_id=256&pdf_id=103

This is nuts...but definitely possible if tuition rates continue to increase at their current rates. This makes the current cost of medical education ($200k) seem very reasonable...

 

[Evergrey]

Some private schools give excellent merit and need-based aid, which can end up reducing the cost below your state school. Why would you assume that the school you're IS for is cheaper?

 

[theprodizzle]

At my med school, we have presentations and meetings with the financial aid office every now and then to discuss financial planning. A lot of good information out there to manage loans, loan repayments, and good ways to just get some straight up cash.

So, for those concerned about going to med school with a huge load of debt, here are some ways to manage your future negative income:

1) Outside source of financial support: Family, parents, trust funds, marrying into royalty

2) Scholarship: Merit and need-based from the school and other organizations...that means do well on your MCAT, get a high GPA, do extracurricular activities, write essays

3) Research: Hidden gem of money to get you by. Not much, but a couple thousands could pay for couple months of rent.

4) Work: Yes, get a job if you feel like you can. If the school has a paid jobs/services that don't interfere with your studying, kaching! Again, not much, but you can get booze to party after exams or pay for rent.

5) Savings/Investment: Yes, stash away some money now if you can.

6) Live like a med student: Do you need an HD cable? Do you need a fancy apartment in a high rise? Different people have different tastes, but minimize monthly excess expenses. Don't buy books from the bookstore unless you have to. Basic sciences haven't changed much in ages, so do you need the latest edition of Netter's? No.

All of these measures probably will not straight up pay for med school. But, it'll reduce what you have to take out in loans. Remember, loans include interest, so the less you take out, the less interest you have to pay.

4) Financial aid: Federal loans, private loans, and loan repayment programs. There are some good federal loan repayment programs that will reduce your loan balance and/or eliminate remaining loan balance if you do something in return, like work for a non-profit organization (i.e. a hospital) for X number of years.

5) Nail your Step 1, do well in your clinical rotations, and sub-I: Get the specialty you want. Not only will you give yourself a chance at a high paying specialty, you give yourself the best opportunity to pick a specialty that you will love. I believe that no money can substitute this happiness in doing what you want.

6) Post-med school: You're a doctor. Chances are that you won't have a poor salary. Oh, marry rich.

It's called life, which includes money decisions. Some people have a lot of choices and some have few. Some people have more options on how to manage money. But, unless you're really in a pickle, you'll always have options on how to manage money. It may take a while to pay off loans, but not absolutely impossible. Play the cards you're dealt with. Like someone said earlier, it's being able to pay your loans.

 

[gettheleadout]

Lets face it... the cost of education in this country is a big problem that's only going to keep getting worse. By 2033, the average medical student is expected to graduate with 750,000 in debt (AAMC projection). That's only 20 years away.

https://services.aamc.org/publicati...rsion103.pdf&prd_id=212&prv_id=256&pdf_id=103

LOL wut

Edit: the link is broken for me, here's the report: https://www.aamc.org/download/105368/data/showfile.pdf