How can I justify so many applications?

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drparks1061 said:
Great advice, thanks for that. I know that, big picture, it won't matter what I'm paying for tuition. I'm responsible enough with my finances; that will make the biggest difference, I'm sure.
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That, and pretty much anyone should not have too much to worry about as far as the financial cost of med school long-term. Best of luck compiling your school list.
 
Casting a wide and well researched net is an appropriate idea. Keep in mind, the primary application is $35, and the secondary application can be anywhere from $80-120+, so that number can be intimidating. I applied to 23 schools (no love, SMP up-coming fall) and spent a pretty penny to the tune of over $2k on secondary apps. This was just a cost I didn't consider when I began, not to mention the opportunity cost of time spent on secondary questions. Some schools pre-screen too, so they allow you to bypass a charitable donation if you don't meet their standards. The University of California system pre-screens, I believe, as well as a few select others.

tl;dr Apply intelligently and cast a wide net. Secondaries can be costly. Some schools pre-screen
 
aymar said:
When is the last time that you went to see a Dr. and stopped them on the way into the room by saying "wait one second, I need to know where you went to school before I let you treat me????"


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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I am more than aware that the individual at the bottom of the class of the worst medical school in the country holds the same title as the one who finished top of the class at Harvard. You call both of them "doctor." But you also call the worst player in NBA history and Michael Jordan "professional basketball players." You really find no distinction between the two?
 
drparks1061 said:
I am more than aware that the individual at the bottom of the class of the worst medical school in the country holds the same title as the one who finished top of the class at Harvard. You call both of them "doctor." But you also call the worst player in NBA history and Michael Jordan "professional basketball players." You really find no distinction between the two?
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It depends what the doctor's personal goals are. If the worst player in the NBA had a life goal to play in the NBA, then I'd say he got there successfully. If his goal was to be a celebrity, then he did not choose the right path.

For me, I just want to be a practicing physician. My interests are in family medicine, and I'm not trying to research the cure for cancer. For my goals, any medical school will get me there. Someone else may not have the same perspective.

I understand why you are asking everyone's opinions, I just don't know why you're asking. Only you know your goals.
 
drparks1061 said:
I am more than aware that the individual at the bottom of the class of the worst medical school in the country holds the same title as the one who finished top of the class at Harvard. You call both of them "doctor." But you also call the worst player in NBA history and Michael Jordan "professional basketball players." You really find no distinction between the two?
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You are making the assumption that the best schools in the country educate the best doctors, and the worst schools educate the worst doctors. I think that you are oversimplifying the issue.

You go to medical school to become a doctor and to help other human beings, not for the ego trip of going to one of the best schools in the country.
 
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stickgirl390 said:
It depends what the doctor's personal goals are. If the worst player in the NBA had a life goal to play in the NBA, then I'd say he got there successfully. If his goal was to be a celebrity, then he did not choose the right path.

For me, I just want to be a practicing physician. My interests are in family medicine, and I'm not trying to research the cure for cancer. For my goals, any medical school will get me there. Someone else may not have the same perspective.

I understand why you are asking everyone's opinions, I just don't know why you're asking. Only you know your goals.
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This makes sense then. I ask purely out of curiosity, that's all 😉
 
stickgirl390 said:
If i could afford it, I would apply to every medical school in the United States. I just want to be a doctor, I don't care which school I attend.
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I know someone who applied to 110 programs.
It didn't work.
 
aymar said:
You are making the assumption that the best schools in the country educate the best doctors, and the worst schools educate the worst doctors. I think that you are oversimplifying the issue.
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You seem to have overlooked my point. Are you saying that different medical schools don't provide different qualities of education? "Harvard" and "the worst medical school in the country" were arbitrary choices, simply to attempt to distinguish qualities of education. Sure, there are phenomenal doctors coming from all sorts of different schools and horrible ones coming from ivy leagues, etc. I was oversimplifying it on purpose. To ultimately get to what stickgirl was saying: that where the education comes from isn't very important. She wants to become a doctor isn't concerned with the school that she achieves that through. My original question was me wondering if others were on the same boat. You have made it clear that you feel the same way.

aymar said:
You go to medical school to become a doctor and to help other human beings, not for the ego trip of going to one of the best schools in the country.
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I'm not even sure why this was said.
 
gyngyn said:
They had several problems: many MCAT scores, confused narrative, misplaced goals, didn't take good advice, haste...
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I know its for the best that they werent admitted, but I feel when I meet people that misguided.
 
To touch more on your last comment, aymar, having a goal of attending a "better" school doesn't indicate an ego problem. My thoughts are simple: better education/school = more opportunities = better comprehension of material = better performance = better doctor. Obviously, this is dependent heavily on the individual. It is not that black and white..I'm not that naive. But I speak from experience that a career/education can be heavily restricted by the opportunities afforded someone.
Personally, I can't operate on the premise of 'taking what I can get.' There's absolutely nothing wrong with that mindset, but I just don't operate that way.
 
you should always apply to every school you are willing to matriculate at. no point not getting in and having to do it all over again. dont forget this entire proecess is going to be half a million dollars. an application is peanuts
 
gyngyn said:
I know someone who applied to 110 programs.
It didn't work.
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I meant my statement as a hyperbole, to illustrate a larger point. I couldn't stomach writing 110 secondaries 🤢
 
Lawper said:
I don't think I would recommend 20-30 MD schools for someone who is in borderline MD/DO region. I'd personally go with something like 20 MD schools and 10 DO schools or a similar combination.
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Generally I agree, but if someone wants a field like ortho (or surgery at all really), derm or another competitive specialty, the extra applications to MD school over DO may be worth it for them in the long run. Like most everything when it comes to applications, it's situational.
 
drparks1061 said:
To touch more on your last comment, aymar, having a goal of attending a "better" school doesn't indicate an ego problem. My thoughts are simple: better education/school = more opportunities = better comprehension of material = better performance = better doctor. Obviously, this is dependent heavily on the individual. It is not that black and white..I'm not that naive. But I speak from experience that a career/education can be heavily restricted by the opportunities afforded someone.
Personally, I can't operate on the premise of 'taking what I can get.' There's absolutely nothing wrong with that mindset, but I just don't operate that way.
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You will get the same education at Drexel or NYMC as you will at Harvard or Yale. But the latter two offer vastly more in career opportunities. Period. Comprehension of the material is 100% on the student. Even the top schools have people who fail out, BTW.
 
Goro said:
You will get the same education at Drexel or NYMC as you will at Harvard or Yale. But the latter two offer vastly more in career opportunities. Period.
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So you'd say that truly every - or nearly every - medical school offers the exact same education? (that is, minus the minor differences) The major difference is only in the career opportunities that come from them?

Goro said:
Comprehension of the material is 100% on the student. Even the top schools have people who fail out, BTW.
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Absolutely, if you fail out of anything then it's on you (short of extenuating circumstances). I'm most definitely not saying that being at a better school automatically makes you better at understanding material. What I mean is that, based on my experience at other schools/jobs/life, that the quality of the educator can dramatically impact the learning experience. (reading back on my last post, I suppose I can understand why I may have been confusing) I guess my main assumption here, which leads back to the top of this post, is that by attending a "better school", your chances of "being better" increase. I quote those because a "better school", I feel, is largely dependent on individual goals and the fact that there are likely many schools that may fit that bill meaning there is no best school. And by "being better" I mean that one gets more out of their educational experience and therefore goes on to be a better physician.
 
Exact same? No. Curricula are not standardized. But the basic and clinical science ends up funneling you to the same knowledge base, whether you went through a classic Flexner style curriculum, or a PBL or a systems-based, or a PBL. In the end, you learn how to deal with an ectopic pregnancy, or a patient with an STD who is penicillin-allergy, or a tetrology of Fallot.


drparks1061 said:
So you'd say that truly every - or nearly every - medical school offers the exact same education? (that is, minus the minor differences) The major difference is only in the career opportunities that come from them?
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Goro said:
Exact same? No. Curricula are not standardized. But the basic and clinical science ends up funneling you to the same knowledge base, whether you went through a classic Flexner style curriculum, or a PBL or a systems-based, or a PBL. In the end, you learn how to deal with an ectopic pregnancy, or a patient with an STD who is penicillin-allergy, or a tetrology of Fallot.
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I see what you are saying on a basic level. I just have noticed in my experience that certain schools/instructors seem to put out better [fill in the blank]. I value that, however delusional it may be.
 
drparks1061 said:
I see what you are saying on a basic level. I just have noticed in my experience that certain schools/instructors seem to put out better [fill in the blank]. I value that, however delusional it may be.
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That's probably explained mostly by the students going in, and again by the career connections. A lot of students interested in ortho will choose Rush. Their interest might go along with a natural talent for the specialty. They're also more likely to match into Rush's well-reputed ortho residency, which is really where they learn to practice medicine, and the connections there will give them a better shot at a prestigious position at an academic center, which further improves Rush's reputation for producing some of the best orthopods.
 
gyngyn said:
They had several problems: many MCAT scores, confused narrative, misplaced goals, didn't take good advice, haste...
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Wow - that must have taken up a lot of their energy and time. I think 20 will be my limit!
 
tarheelpenner said:
When did CASPer become a requirement? What even is it? This is ridiculous. Another test?! Do you have to study for it?
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You can prepare for it. You don't really need to study, but you can try. You may want to try and improve your typing speed as well.

It is an assessment where you watch a video about an ethical scenario and then have 5 minutes to write 3 short essays about what you would do in the situation. They give you a bunch of these little scenarios, and it goes fast. They are also instructed not to grade on grammar, spelling and typos.

And you take this at home by logging in at your designated time.
 
Goro said:
You will get the same education at Drexel or NYMC as you will at Harvard or Yale. But the latter two offer vastly more in career opportunities. Period. Comprehension of the material is 100% on the student. Even the top schools have people who fail out, BTW.
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I've always felt like that's the case, but its 50/50. You can go to a top med school and still not have a top career ( just like a stellar applicant can still not get a top med school acceptance), and you can go to lesser-ranked school and have a top career. Kind of like the UGrad/Med School connection, correlation , but not absolute causation?
Or is that not correct?
 
mwsapphire said:
I've always felt like that's the case, but its 50/50. You can go to a top med school and still not have a top career ( just like a stellar applicant can still not get a top med school acceptance), and you can go to lesser-ranked school and have a top career. Kind of like the UGrad/Med School connection, correlation , but not absolute causation?
Or is that not correct?
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👍 You get out of medical school what you put into it.
 
@drparks1061 I think you're both right and wrong, I agree that prestige matters to an extent. You will get the same medical education regardless of where you decide to attend but the major difference is usually the connections you can make at these institutions for residency & beyond & location (medical centers). Other then that I don't see why professors at Harvard would be better at reading off of PowerPoint slides to me then a professor from a rural MD school, unless it streaks your ego more? Idk, not sure.
 
jcorpsmanMD said:
@drparks1061 I think you're both right and wrong, I agree that prestige matters to an extent. You will get the same medical education regardless of where you decide to attend but the major difference is usually the connections you can make at these institutions for residency & beyond & location (medical centers). Other then that I don't see why professors at Harvard would be better at reading off of PowerPoint slides to me then a professor from a rural MD school, unless it streaks your ego more? Idk, not sure.
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I can understand this. Although, I didn't realize they just read from slides in medical school.

Has no one honestly ever experienced a poor instructor, and then a great instructor, and realized the difference that can make?
 
drparks1061 said:
I can understand this. Although, I didn't realize they just read from slides in medical school.

Has no one honestly ever experienced a poor instructor, and then a great instructor, and realized the difference that can make?
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I've definitely experienced both instructors, I've also experienced the instructors that are required to teach and you know they'd rather be doing their research. From what I've come to learn from my friends in medical school, a lot of these instructors spend their time reading off PowerPoint, rambling, and telling you how awesome their research is.

Plus at these great institutions that you speak of, you'll get instructors that are top in their field, but they won't teach you, they'll talk at you. This is what I've learned in my short life here on this earth, even interviewing at a Top 10 many of the students reiterated the same thought. They said how awesome it was to have this world renowned 'X' teaching but really all they would do was ramble through the power points, talk about their research, or even be incredibly specific about things you don't even need to know to do well in that course. You get me now?


EDIT: but yes prestige matters, just not for the #1 reason you consider important
 
jcorpsmanMD said:
I've definitely experienced both instructors, I've also experienced the instructors that are required to teach and you know they'd rather be doing their research. From what I've come to learn from my friends in medical school, a lot of these instructors spend their time reading off PowerPoint, rambling, and telling you how awesome their research is.

Plus at these great institutions that you speak of, you'll get instructors that are top in their field, but they won't teach you, they'll talk at you. This is what I've learned in my short life here on this earth, even interviewing at a Top 10 many of the students reiterated the same thought. They said how awesome it was to have this world renowned 'X' teaching but really all they would do was ramble through the power points, talk about their research, or even be incredibly specific about things you don't even need to know to do well in that course. You get me now?


EDIT: but yes prestige matters, just not for the #1 reason you consider important
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That's pretty sad to hear that they're not truly being taught medicine if the professor is just preaching/promoting their research. Having an interactive, intelligent, and passionate professor is incredibly important. I am just assuming that these "higher institutions" have more of these professors. I guess this may be wrong?

I'd be curious to hear if others have experienced/heard this same thing.
 
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