How competitive is general surgery and is research required for it?

[MadScientist95]

Hello everyone! I am a first year osteopathic medical student and am trying to gain more information on different specialties that I am considering pursuing. One of them is general surgery. I have searched but cannot seem to find many answers regarding this specialty, how competitive it is and if research is needed. I would like to also note that I am Air Force HPSP and realize that they technically could deny me from getting into my top specialty of choice but I chose to do this because I want to serve. I would also like to mention that I am not interested in academic medicine and would therefore, be perfectly fine with doing a community based general surgery residency program (if I decide to pursue this specialty). I would also probably stay being a general surgeon and not want to specialize later on if chose to do this due to the residency already being 5 years long. I realize that this residency is brutal so I am not here to debate that. I am simply wondering, 1.) how competitive is general surgery in the Air Force and 2.) how competitive would it be in the civilian world if I were to get a civilian deferment and not care about where I go? Do I need research for either one? The reason I ask this as well is because I am not a fan of research. I did three years of it in undergrad and hated every second of it. However, I would be willing to suck it up during my education years and gain some experience if I needed to to make myself more competitive. Thank you!

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[AlteredScale]

Hello everyone! I am a first year osteopathic medical student and am trying to gain more information on different specialties that I am considering pursuing. One of them is general surgery. I have searched but cannot seem to find many answers regarding this specialty, how competitive it is and if research is needed. I would like to also note that I am Air Force HPSP and realize that they technically could deny me from getting into my top specialty of choice but I chose to do this because I want to serve. I would also like to mention that I am not interested in academic medicine and would therefore, be perfectly fine with doing a community based general surgery residency program (if I decide to pursue this specialty). I would also probably stay being a general surgeon and not want to specialize later on if chose to do this due to the residency already being 5 years long. I realize that this residency is brutal so I am not here to debate that. I am simply wondering, 1.) how competitive is general surgery in the Air Force and 2.) how competitive would it be in the civilian world if I were to get a civilian deferment and not care about where I go? Do I need research for either one? The reason I ask this as well is because I am not a fan of research. I did three years of it in undergrad and hated every second of it. However, I would be willing to suck it up during my education years and gain some experience if I needed to to make myself more competitive. Thank you!

1) Not sure about this

2) Research makes your application stronger. Doesn't matter if it's community or uni, ACGME requires all general surgery programs to have some sort of scholarly output. So if you have something on your app to show that you've done it, even just once, it makes you a stronger applicant than the one who hasn't (with equal factors in other areas).

- Most important thing is to do as well as possible on your boards before thinking about research.

 

[Norwood-Sano]

Hello everyone! I am a first year osteopathic medical student and am trying to gain more information on different specialties that I am considering pursuing. One of them is general surgery. I have searched but cannot seem to find many answers regarding this specialty, how competitive it is and if research is needed. I would like to also note that I am Air Force HPSP and realize that they technically could deny me from getting into my top specialty of choice but I chose to do this because I want to serve. I would also like to mention that I am not interested in academic medicine and would therefore, be perfectly fine with doing a community based general surgery residency program (if I decide to pursue this specialty). I would also probably stay being a general surgeon and not want to specialize later on if chose to do this due to the residency already being 5 years long. I realize that this residency is brutal so I am not here to debate that. I am simply wondering, 1.) how competitive is general surgery in the Air Force and 2.) how competitive would it be in the civilian world if I were to get a civilian deferment and not care about where I go? Do I need research for either one? The reason I ask this as well is because I am not a fan of research. I did three years of it in undergrad and hated every second of it. However, I would be willing to suck it up during my education years and gain some experience if I needed to to make myself more competitive. Thank you!

Calling @AnatomyGrey12

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

1) surgery in the military is competitive, often more competitive than civilian, and is heavily scores based. You will need to do well on boards to have a chance.

2) do not expect a civilian deferment, despite what recruiters tell you they are pretty rare. Research will help your app either way and you should expect to do some if you are interested in surgery. Med school research is different than UG research and is often less tedious.

 

[MadScientist95]

1) military in the surgery is competitive, often more competitive than civilian, and is heavily scores based. You will need to do well on boards to have a chance.

2) do not expect a civilian deferment, despite what recruiters tell you they are pretty rare. Research will help your app either way and you should expect to do some if you are interested in surgery. Med school research is different than UG research and is often less tedious.

Do I need a publication or just “experience?”

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do I need a publication or just “experience?”

Outcomes are the only things that really matter, posters, presentations, abstracts, and publications.

 

[4thtimeretaker]

1) surgery in the military is competitive, often more competitive than civilian, and is heavily scores based. You will need to do well on boards to have a chance.

2) do not expect a civilian deferment, despite what recruiters tell you they are pretty rare. Research will help your app either way and you should expect to do some if you are interested in surgery. Med school research is different than UG research and is often less tedious.

Typically what kind of stats (leadership, GPA, board scores) would DOs need to be competitive for gen surg?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Typically what kind of stats (leadership, GPA, board scores) would DOs need to be competitive for gen surg?

Civilian or military?

 

[MadScientist95]

Civilian or military?

Both

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Former AOA programs: You need roughly a 525 or greater to be competitive. 600+ is what the bigger programs like Doctors will be looking for, although a high 500s doesn't put you out of the running.

MD programs: You can have a chance in the mid-220s, but 230+ is where the magic line is drawn where the match rate jumps from about 50% all the way to high 70s. A 240+ is ideal.

I've been told for military that 240/600 is what it takes. I am not military so take this with a grain of salt and find someone who has done the military to surgery route, but I have been told by multiple people it is often more competitive than civilian and you need the scores mentioned above to be competitive for it.

 

[Spectreman]

My goal is to match GS, be shooting the breeze with a co-resident, start talking SDN, and find out I’m chatting with AnatomyGrey in person.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

My goal is to match GS, be shooting the breeze with a co-resident, start talking SDN, and find out I’m chatting with AnatomyGrey in person.

I think you would need to be applying ortho then.