How did you guys take the MCAT or GRE without having an id (undocument)

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Cookieee said:
My "ultra-liberal" input:

First, no human being is illegal, the correct term is "undocumented."
Second, many of the immigrants who are here undocumented escaped deathly situations. As a future physician serving humanity, I would hope you realize how one-sided your view on this is. You will meet people from everywhere, will you not treat them because in your eyes there are only humans with papers and subhumans without?
Third, they are not stealing our jobs, in fact, they fill in the gaps in sectors of mostly low-end jobs and they even pay taxes. However, they cannot vote, a power people like you want to use to "correct" this "injustice."

Remember that immigrants started this country...
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The correct term anywhere in the world is basically "illegal" immigrant, as in, they immigrated illegally. They didn't immigrate "undocumentedly." That's like going through customs with some banned fruit and saying, "no fruit is illegal! This is just undocumented fruit!" "Undocumented" is the liberal-PC term that was coined (only in America do things seem to get branded this way) to make people feel as if they don't live in a constant state of breaking the law. Which they do.

I'm all for immigration reform, but I'm tired of liberal PC BS. Call it what it is, enough of this babby talk.
 
Lawper said:
You should post your 101 reasons thread in preallo, since... it's the only place where things become politically bloody and idealistically altruistic... at the same time!
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I definitely would but I fear it might be considered trolling and the mod hammer might be brought down.
 
I don't know your personal story but as a gunner I do not want to tell you anything. You are one more of the competition I don't need.

Actually I don't know. But I do know you have a blaring red flag that will stop you somewhere in the process. You might want to fix that first. The mcat is only good for two years for most schools, FYI.

I'll go on a tangent here...if you have connections to your non-US country, why don't you look into going to medical school there? Being a doctor is being a doctor....sure, maybe you won't have as many opportunities as you would at Johns Hopkins, but I'm sure there's a need over there.
 
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Cookieee said:
My "ultra-liberal" input:

First, no human being is illegal, the correct term is "undocumented."
Second, many of the immigrants who are here undocumented escaped deathly situations. As a future physician serving humanity, I would hope you realize how one-sided your view on this is. You will meet people from everywhere, will you not treat them because in your eyes there are only humans with papers and subhumans without?
Third, they are not stealing our jobs, in fact, they fill in the gaps in sectors of mostly low-end jobs and they even pay taxes. However, they cannot vote, a power people like you want to use to "correct" this "injustice."

Remember that immigrants started this country...
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With all due respect, if you are in France, and you don't have your passport, you are there ILLEGALLY. PERIOD. They aren't "undocumented" as if they misplaced their traveling documents and don't have it on them. Yes, immigrants built this country, and they came here LEGALLY.

Edit: Realized this is Pre-Allopathic, hence the disconnect from reality (i.e. costs, budgets, etc.)
 
Ten Tails said:
According to several online resources that I just perused, you can (apparently) call the AAMC and state that you do not know your social security number; you will then be provided with an assigned identification that can enable you to sit for the exam. However, I must warn you that it would be pretty inadvisable to reveal your undocumented status in your phone conversation, and even after taking the test, it would be incredibly difficult for you to successfully matriculate into the vast majority of US medical schools.

On another note, I really cannot grasp all of the hostile, bitter responses that this thread is beginning to receive. Although illegal immigration is a contentious subject, I've never understood the positions of those who'd call for the deportation of individuals such as the OP. The DREAM act would have allowed children of illegal immigrants to have a pathway to citizenship, provided that these children meet several prerequisites (for example, individuals with felony convictions are ineligible.) After paying steep fines/back-taxes for breaking the law (and after accomplishing either mandatory military service or attaining a college degree), these descendants of illegal immigrants would be allowed to receive citizenship; due to the strict requirements of the DREAM act, it would be very difficult to classify such legislation as a form of "amnesty." Personally, I'd strongly support the passage of the Dream Act and the re-integration of productive, socially-contributing "illegal" immigrants into American society. The non-partisan CBO found that the DREAM Act is (in the long-term) economically beneficial to the country, and I'm certain that most people would consider it to be the most comprehensive, fair, and humane proposal of its kind.
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Sure, the DREAM act is a great avenue for people to take to gain legal status. I don't think many people here (or elsewhere) have too much against children of illegal immigrants per se. That said, until some sort of legal avenue is pursued by the child/family, these individuals (in many people's opinions) ought not receive the benefits that legal immigrants/residents/citizens gain. Certain benefits, like education and due process, are guaranteed to all. Some benefits, like voting, government programs, and the right to work, are not granted. Different people have different ideas about what benefits are currently not granted to illegal immigrants but ought to be granted to everyone - subsidized healthcare, path to citizenship, college scholarships...
 
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What is going on? Seriously.....

Illegal immigrants should not be in this country. My family waited 8 years to receive green card, and my dad had to work in a chicken processing plant day and night for a year.

To people who feel sad for those illegal immigrants, you should be more worried about 'legal' people who are in same or worse situations.

Yes illegal immigrants have right to life but not at our expenses, or at least my expenses
 
DermViser said:
With all due respect, if you are in France, and you don't have your passport, you are there ILLEGALLY. PERIOD. They aren't "undocumented" as if they misplaced their traveling documents and don't have it on them. Yes, immigrants built this country, and they came here LEGALLY.

Edit: Realized this is Pre-Allopathic, hence the disconnect from reality (i.e. costs, budgets, etc.)
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You should bring your resident friends over to preallo. I'll be happy to debate with all of you and get my butt trashed in the process
 
Lawper said:
You should bring your resident friends over to preallo. I'll be happy to debate with all of you and get my butt trashed in the process
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What's funny are the ones that get their *** handed to them on the facts by people who might know a little bit more than they do, and keep coming back for more.
I always like how the Mother Theresa mentality disappears from MS-1 to MS-4.
 
Cookieee said:
My "ultra-liberal" input:

First, no human being is illegal, the correct term is "undocumented."
Second, many of the immigrants who are here undocumented escaped deathly situations. As a future physician serving humanity, I would hope you realize how one-sided your view on this is. You will meet people from everywhere, will you not treat them because in your eyes there are only humans with papers and subhumans without?
Third, they are not stealing our jobs, in fact, they fill in the gaps in sectors of mostly low-end jobs and they even pay taxes. However, they cannot vote, a power people like you want to use to "correct" this "injustice."

Remember that immigrants started this country...
Click to expand...
They are illegally present in a country- that means they are illegal. When they commit a crime, is that crime illegal, or is it just undocumented? They do in fact steal the jobs of "legal" citizens who would likely otherwise have, and are more deserving of those jobs. Plus, half of the illegal immigrants ( the "entitled" ones on welfare) pay no taxes. They also vote illegally or vote when they become citizens. So, illegal immigration is illegal, and the illegal immigrants hurt our country. If they wanted to work and come here legally, I would completely support them.
 
RJGOP said:
They are illegally present in a country- that means they are illegal. When they commit a crime, is that crime illegal, or is it just undocumented? They do in fact steal the jobs of "legal" citizens who would likely otherwise have, and are more deserving of those jobs. Plus, half of the illegal immigrants ( the "entitled" ones on welfare) pay no taxes. They also vote illegally or vote when they become citizens. So, illegal immigration is illegal, and the illegal immigrants hurt our country. If they wanted to work and come here legally, I would completely support them.
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Not to mention, the middle class and lower in this country are hurting so bad right now. Yet instead of helping them, we're wanting to usher in even cheaper labor. Talk about kicking someone while they're down.
 
DermViser said:
Not to mention, the middle class and lower in this country are hurting so bad right now. Yet instead of helping them, we're wanting to usher in even cheaper labor. Talk about kicking someone while they're down.
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Don't forget illegal immigration benefits only a certain group of people. People outside this group are deported without a second thought
 
I know this is gonna sound crazy, but why the hell don't people apply to come here legally first? And, you know, not come here if they cannot be here legally?

I know the answer- they want a better life and whatnot- but coming to America isn't a right. You don't just have the right to disregard borders and live where you please without regard for local law.
 
Mad Jack said:
I know this is gonna sound crazy, but why the hell don't people apply to come here legally first? And, you know, not come here if they cannot be here legally?

I know the answer- they want a better life and whatnot- but coming to America isn't a right. You don't just have the right to disregard borders and live where you please without regard for local law.
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Or more importantly, a certain political party which brands itself as fighting for the middle class is for something that stabs them in the back. That being said, there are certain members of that party whom I like (Elizabeth Warren).
 
DermViser said:
Or more importantly, a certain political party which brands itself as fighting for the middle class is for something that stabs them in the back. That being said, there are certain members of that party whom I like (Elizabeth Warren).
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The thing is, illegal immigration doesn't really affect the middle class. It hits the lower class hardest. They're not taking jobs at offices, factories, or hospitals. They're taking jobs in fast food, landscaping, agriculture, and construction. And the people who benefit by keeping them illegal are largely wealthy or Republican backers- Ag companies, construction companies, small business owners, wealthy people with illegal nannies, etc.
 
Mad Jack said:
I know this is gonna sound crazy, but why the hell don't people apply to come here legally first? And, you know, not come here if they cannot be here legally?

I know the answer- they want a better life and whatnot- but coming to America isn't a right. You don't just have the right to disregard borders and live where you please without regard for local law.
Click to expand...

For many it is a fight for survival. Crossing the border illegally to avoid murderous gangs, lack of food, shelter etc.
 
Mad Jack said:
I know this is gonna sound crazy, but why the hell don't people apply to come here legally first? And, you know, not come here if they cannot be here legally?

I know the answer- they want a better life and whatnot- but coming to America isn't a right. You don't just have the right to disregard borders and live where you please without regard for local law.
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Not an excuse, but this reason might be why many people don't try to attempt to go through legal means to immigrate to this company. If it was easy to do, everybody would do it.

I'm torn because all those people who claim their relatives immigrated legally to the US were primarily during a time when it was much simpler and easier to immigrate to the US. Now the flow is down to a trickle for legal immigrants, but the demand is still just as high. OTOH, when you examine how other countries handle their immigration policies, we look like kindly grandparents in comparison.
 
Lamel said:
For many it is a fight for survival. Crossing the border illegally to avoid murderous gangs, lack of food, shelter etc.
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These are issues in the US as well....issues facing legal residents of this country who require government resources and, arguably, have more of a claim to those resources ...😕

Edit: @Lamel isn't this exactly like "medical tourism" and going on mission trips abroad? SDN always tells pre-meds that there are plenty of people in our own back yard who require help and that there is no reason to leave the country if you want to help people.
 
DermViser said:
Not to mention, the middle class and lower in this country are hurting so bad right now. Yet instead of helping them, we're wanting to usher in even cheaper labor. Talk about kicking someone while they're down.
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Illegal immigrants are disproportionately employed in the janitorial services, crop picking, and garbage collection industries. All of the market sectors that I've just described are traditionally avoided/shunned by native-born American workers; honestly enough, even American workers who are high school dropouts don't want to work in the kinds of conditions that many immigrants are frequently placed in. It's really dishonest to frame this issue as one of "the government" increasing demand for cheap labor; if you have a problem with this process, then maybe you should ask our nation's major corporations about their underhanded attempts to hire foreign-born immigrant laborers, pay them less, put them in dangerous work environments, and (eventually) hang them out to dry if they get injured.
 
kyamh said:
These are issues in the US as well....issues facing legal residents of this country who require government resources and, arguably, have more of a claim to those resources ...😕
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I never said they weren't. He didn't seem to comprehend why people immigrate illegally, and I just wanted to point out that for many it is a life or death situation. Sending people (especially children) back to effectively die and saying "not our problem" is irresponsible on our part.
 
Lamel said:
That's quite humanitarian of you. I'm really glad you're going into medicine.
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It isn't about being humanitarian. It's about the fact that it isn't America's job to fix every gorram problem in the world or to let every person that's fleeing everything crawl across our borders free of charge. Things will never get better in Mexico if the people don't decide they've had enough and force things to change. When there's an easy out- hopping the border- all the people that are upset by the current system just bail ship rather than fighting to fix things. What would have happened if all the civil rights activists of the last century had decided, "hey, in Canada this ain't a problem, let's just hop the fence and go where we're equal!" People need to face the problems of their countries, not run from them. That just isn't how things get fixed.

If we took everyone in the world that was running from food scarcity, lack of opportunity, or violence, America would be brimming at the seams with people in a week. We can't afford to bring them on board, period, no matter how big our hearts are. The hardest part of being a good person is knowing when you have to say "no." Because when you do, it hurts, but you can't always say yes or you'll drag yourself down into everything you're trying to fix.
 
Ten Tails said:
Illegal immigrants are disproportionately employed in the janitorial services, crop picking, and garbage collection industries. All of the market sectors that I've just described are traditionally avoided/shunned by native-born American workers; honestly enough, even American workers who are high school dropouts don't want to work in the kinds of conditions that many immigrants are frequently placed in. It's really dishonest to frame this issue as one of "the government" increasing demand for cheap labor; if you have a problem with this process, then maybe you should ask our nation's major corporations about their underhanded attempts to hire foreign-born immigrant laborers, pay them less, put them in dangerous work environments, and (eventually) hang them out to dry if they get injured.
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All the more reason why they shouldn't get that labor. Apparently, you believe they should.
 
Lamel said:
That's quite humanitarian of you. I'm really glad you're going into medicine.
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Ten Tails said:
Illegal immigrants are disproportionately employed in the janitorial services, crop picking, and garbage collection industries. All of the market sectors that I've just described are traditionally avoided/shunned by native-born American workers; honestly enough, even American workers who are high school dropouts don't want to work in the kinds of conditions that many immigrants are frequently placed in. It's really dishonest to frame this issue as one of "the government" increasing demand for cheap labor; if you have a problem with this process, then maybe you should ask our nation's major corporations about their underhanded attempts to hire foreign-born immigrant laborers, pay them less, put them in dangerous work environments, and (eventually) hang them out to dry if they get injured.
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Do you think that the unemployed legal Americans would prefer to be unemployed or a janitor? Obviously they'd rather have a job. But those jobs are being taken away from them by undeserving illegal immigrants.
 
Lamel said:
I never said they weren't. He didn't seem to comprehend why people immigrate illegally, and I just wanted to point out that for many it is a life or death situation. Sending people (especially children) back to effectively die and saying "not our problem" is irresponsible on our part.
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I don't know if anyone has used this thread/conversation to promote the idea of deporting anyone. The whole thing started about someone saying they are an illegal immigrant who had questions about medical school applications....a very different scenario. I think most people have so far expressed the feeling that this person, due to their illegal/undocumented status, is not (of should not be) eligible for becoming a licensed physician in this country without first gaining a visa through legal means (even though it's hard/almost impossible for some).
 
Ten Tails said:
Illegal immigrants are disproportionately employed in the janitorial services, crop picking, and garbage collection industries. All of the market sectors that I've just described are traditionally avoided/shunned by native-born American workers; honestly enough, even American workers who are high school dropouts don't want to work in the kinds of conditions that many immigrants are frequently placed in. It's really dishonest to frame this issue as one of "the government" increasing demand for cheap labor; if you have a problem with this process, then maybe you should ask our nation's major corporations about their underhanded attempts to hire foreign-born immigrant laborers, pay them less, put them in dangerous work environments, and (eventually) hang them out to dry if they get injured.
Click to expand...
If there weren't illegal immigrants working these jobs and they still needed to be done, wages would increase until someone took them. You can't just go forever without a janitor, and eventually you'll cave and pay them 10 dollars or 12 dollars or whatever it takes an hour to make your office trash stop smelling like death. With illegal immigrants taking these jobs, that balance gets upset, leading to depressed wages and an artificially deflated employment market.
 
Lamel said:
That's quite humanitarian of you. I'm really glad you're going into medicine.
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It's really not the United States' problem. It's mexico's or Guatemala's and all the other countries which "feed" us with illegal aliens. You then might ask, "Shouldn't we do something about it though?" Well, the current president will do nothing about it because he knows those illegal immigrants represent democratic votes.
 
Ten Tails said:
The non-partisan CBO found that the DREAM Act is (in the long-term) economically beneficial to the country, and I'm certain that most people would consider it to be the most comprehensive, fair, and humane proposal of its kind.
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what makes you think you speak for the majority of people on that subject ?? You can be 100% sure that you do NOT speak for ME !!
 
DermViser said:
You're are free to clothe, house, and pay for their room and board. Oh wait, you're only 20.
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I have no problem in paying extra in taxes or other means to fund viable solutions for disadvantaged people. The whole "**** you, I got mine" attitude you spew is not constructive towards a unified, successful society.

kyamh said:
I don't know if anyone has used this thread/conversation to promote the idea of deporting anyone. The whole thing started about someone saying they are an illegal immigrant who had questions about medical school applications....a very different scenario. I think most people have so far expressed the feeling that this person, due to their illegal/undocumented status, is not (of should not be) eligible for becoming a licensed physician in this country without first gaining a visa through legal means (even though it's hard/almost impossible for some).
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Re-read what I was responding to, it wasn't about the OPs situation, and clearly the thread has devolved into something else.
 
Mad Jack said:
If there weren't illegal immigrants working these jobs and they still needed to be done, wages would increase until someone took them. You can't just go forever without a janitor, and eventually you'll cave and pay them 10 dollars or 12 dollars or whatever it takes an hour to make your office trash stop smelling like death. With illegal immigrants taking these jobs, that balance gets upset, leading to depressed wages and an artificially deflated employment market.
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BINGO. Exactly.
 
Lamel said:
I have no problem in paying extra in taxes or other means to fund viable solutions for disadvantaged people. The whole "**** you, I got mine" attitude you spew is not constructive towards a unified, successful society.
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Nope, sorry pal. Don't play the "I'm more than happy to pay more taxes" line to push it off on all of us.
 
RJGOP said:
Do you think that the unemployed legal Americans would prefer to be unemployed or a janitor? Obviously they'd rather have a job. But those jobs are being taken away from them by undeserving illegal immigrants.
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I don't think that you are comprehending the point that I'm making here. These aren't jobs that are being taken away by undeserving immigrants; these are menial jobs that corporations don't want to pay American workers to perform. By default, American workers cost more and have certain protections/guarantees; illegal immigrants, however, don't have to be fairly compensated or even treated all that well. This process is primarily exploitative towards immigrants and primarily beneficial for corporate profits, and sadly, it leads to economic gains for many of the involved parties. The system needs reform, but most of the blame belongs to companies who look the other way to reap massive economic benefits (rather than the immigrants themselves).

oldstock said:
what makes you think you speak for the majority of people on that subject ?? You can be 100% sure that you do NOT speak for ME !!
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I speak for most people on this subject because a wide variety of polls confirm that the American public wants comprehensive immigration reform. Pew and Gallup have both found that individuals in both political parties want to work on a viable pathway to citizenship for some of those who've come here illegally.
 
Lamel said:
That's quite humanitarian of you. I'm really glad you're going into medicine.
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Get off Sdn right now, sell your personal belongings and assets, fly to 3rd world country and start working without rewards.

Wait what? You cannot do that? Then, at least send your lunch money to starving kids in Africa. Those kids are being starved to death as we are speaking right now. Can't do that either?

That's quite humanitarian of you


Altruism can only be achieved with egocentric mind. We help people because we like to help people.
 
DermViser said:
You're are free to clothe, house, and pay for their room and board. Oh wait, you're only 20.
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oh yeah I like to see that happens... probably in one freaking million years !! but surely he/or she would like to do that with us real working and tax paying people paying for all those costs 🙂 lol
 
Lamel said:
I have no problem in paying extra in taxes or other means to fund viable solutions for disadvantaged people. The whole "**** you, I got mine" attitude you spew is not constructive towards a unified, successful society.
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That's what charity is for. Society isn't built on handouts and freebies. It isn't about me having mine already, it's about the fact that a sustainable society cannot function when too much of its resources are consumed by safety nets.
 
Ten Tails said:
Pew and Gallup have both found that individuals in both political parties want to work on a viable pathway to citizenship for some of those who've come here illegally.
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Oh, I'm sure they have the best interest of the American public at heart. Just look at Obamacare.
 
Ten Tails said:
I don't think that you are comprehending the point that I'm making here. These aren't jobs that are being taken away by undeserving immigrants; these are menial jobs that corporations don't want to pay American workers to perform. By default, American workers cost more and have certain protections/guarantees; illegal immigrants, however, don't have to be fairly compensated or even treated all that well. This process is primarily exploitative towards immigrants and primarily beneficial for corporate profits, and sadly, it leads to economic gains for many of the involved parties. The system needs reform, but most of the blame belongs to companies who look the other way to reap massive economic benefits (rather than the immigrants themselves).
The point I'm making is that, regardless of pay, ( which anyway I think those jobs are minimum wage or darn near it) the legal citizens have priority over the illegal citizens who shouldn't be here in the first place. We would have way less unemployment if it weren't for all the illegal aliens.
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I'm okay with there being an increase in immigration and paths to citizenship for some of those here, particularly those brought here when they were far too young to have any say. But I want it coupled with the tightest border control enforcement the world has ever seen, so that if you're in, you're in, and if you're out, you're out.
 
Lamel said:
I have no problem in paying extra in taxes or other means to fund viable solutions for disadvantaged people. The whole "**** you, I got mine" attitude you spew is not constructive towards a unified, successful society.



Re-read what I was responding to, it wasn't about the OPs situation, and clearly the thread has devolved into something else.
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you are welcome to do all by yourself that as it is very kind of you doing all that !! But do NOT freaking make others to do what you like to do !! Thank you very effing much !!
 
Mad Jack said:
That's what charity is for. Society isn't built on handouts and freebies. It isn't about me having mine already, it's about the fact that a sustainable society cannot function when too much of its resources are consumed by safety nets.
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Oh I thought society was built on freebies and handouts. According to Obama, everything you have accomplished in your life was given to you. All the hard workers who worked for every dime they have- apparently it was given to you. Obama only says that because everything was handed to him. That's his way of saying capitalism is an evil enterprise.
 
Oh brother, its painful how insecure some of you are about these matters that you have come in and completely drown a thread with incoherent, immature ad hominem and rambling. It's been nice chatting, if anyone is willing to have an actual discussion on this matter then I'll be happy to join in, but for now this thread has turned into a conservative circlej***.


Lawper said:
Lol at premeds being all altruistic and loving. That tune will change over time unfortunately
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Being pre-med doesn't invalidate our opinions or principles. If you have a problem with pre-meds, then pre-allo is probably not the best place to hang out is it?
 
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