How difficult is it to get into PA school as a non-trad with a dual bachelor's degree in the sciences?

[Greencircle]

Life happens, eh?

In my two-year-long (approaching three years) hiatus as a post-undergraduate, I have considered joining a PA program because of projected job prospects. However, as an underrepresented minority, I would like to see if my credentials would measure up: I have a 3.09 undergraduate cGPA and roughly a 2.8 undergraduate sGPA. Unflattering as these may seem, I have gained a significantly 11-month long experience working as a pharmacy technician trainee. Other experiences involved hopping from one research program to another in my undergraduate career, including working as a clinical assistant for two months. Additionally, I have a dual bachelor's degree in biology and chemistry, so that is always a plus - I guess.

I do not want to pursue pharmacy because of the low projected wages and the high turnover rate that I have experienced. Furthermore, the only schools that seem to accept me are private universities located within the five boroughs of New York State. The only way I could see myself considering these schools is if I join some government program to subsidize some or a significant portion of my tuition. (It would be helpful if anybody knows of any.)

Anyhow, with my explained motivation aside, I have discovered that some PA schools have dropped their GRE requirements this year. Additionally, I have seen some schools require either a philosophy or sociology course, none of which I have taken. I have heard that getting into PA schools is competitive and that some work experience in specific sectors of the healthcare industry is a bonus. Considering I have not sat for the GRE yet and the information previously mentioned, what must I do to increase the likelihood of getting accepted into a PA program? Or have I already met the requirements necessary to qualify?

Please comment, rant, or give an honest take on this matter. I would appreciate the latter.

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[pamac]

PA is headed fast towards what you are seeing in pharmacy. I have a friend who was offered a BMW and $120k per year back in 2008 before they graduated pharmacy school to go work for Wal-mart, and they could pick which store in town they wanted to work at. No competition for jobs. That's like $150k per year now. You tell me what the going rate for new grad pharmacists is, and what the competition for jobs is like. PA's are not far from that kind of situation right now. COVID basically added a years worth of new grads to the market inventory of workers, and led to work slowdowns and furloughs for significant portion of the experienced workforce. I mentioned in another post a new PA I know that took a job that paid $77,000 per year with almost no benefits. They considered themself lucky because that's all they could find in the area.

Your grades probably mean you'll have a tough time landing a seat in PA school, underrepresented minority or not. sGPA and cGPA both need to at least be above 3.0 for them not to automatically screen you before they even see the rest of your packet or read your essay. Not having a GRE means they will look even harder at grades. Good performance on the GRE was once a way to make a case that lower grades weren't the total measure of academic ability. I would guess that no GRE means GPA expectations are even higher. They don't want students flunking out, and need something to use to provide some kind of assurance that folks are up for the challenge.

But even if you got in, you'd graduate just in time to experience what you fled from pharmacy.

 

[Greencircle]

PA is headed fast towards what you are seeing in pharmacy. I have a friend who was offered a BMW and $120k per year back in 2008 before they graduated pharmacy school to go work for Wal-mart, and they could pick which store in town they wanted to work at. No competition for jobs. That's like $150k per year now. You tell me what the going rate for new grad pharmacists is, and what the competition for jobs is like. PA's are not far from that kind of situation right now. COVID basically added a years worth of new grads to the market inventory of workers, and led to work slowdowns and furloughs for significant portion of the experienced workforce. I mentioned in another post a new PA I know that took a job that paid $77,000 per year with almost no benefits. They considered themself lucky because that's all they could find in the area.

Your grades probably mean you'll have a tough time landing a seat in PA school, underrepresented minority or not. sGPA and cGPA both need to at least be above 3.0 for them not to automatically screen you before they even see the rest of your packet or read your essay. Not having a GRE means they will look even harder at grades. Good performance on the GRE was once a way to make a case that lower grades weren't the total measure of academic ability. I would guess that no GRE means GPA expectations are even higher. They don't want students flunking out, and need something to use to provide some kind of assurance that folks are up for the challenge.

But even if you got in, you'd graduate just in time to experience what you fled from pharmacy.

Hmm. Interesting. I figured much.

However, what could I do to increase the likelihood of getting admitted into a PA program? I would like to begin as early as the winter of next year.

 

[pamac]

With your grades, you are in a rough spot, particularly if you want to get in to school next year. I dont see that happening. You could go to school and get a clinical laboratory science degree in about a year of coursework. That adds a lot of biology credits for your science GPA. I did that, and I got PA school interviews. It might help you. If you don’t get into a program, you can get a job in a medical lab and make decent money while you reapply. That’s about all you can do, but it’s the best use of your time, because you improve your GPAs, and you have a job waiting for you afterwords. It’s health care experience too. And it’s usually just a year of coursework. It’s a bachelors program as well, so you’ll have a resume that shows a BS in biology, chemistry, and a BS in clinical laboratory science. I was making the equivalent of about $70,000 per year the second year I was a lab scientist working in a hospital. Lab scientists as the folks who run all the lab tests in blood and body fluids. They also do blood banking, and some are involved in pathology stuff.

 

[mountainPA]

PA school right now is just extremely competitive. I thought it was tough when I applied almost 9 years ago (!!), and my class cGPA average was 3.77, and our sGPA was close to a 3.9. Almost any PA school that I am familiar with will initially screen you out based on your GPA. I know many people that sit on admissions committees and most will begin screening at 3.5 and see where that takes them as far as the applicant pool goes. It's not necessarily fair, but these programs are in no short supply of students that aced all of their upper division science classes, and have research and healthcare experience as well. These students are likely to succeed in the programs and as quick learners as future PAs.

Having undergrad degrees in the hard sciences is always a major accomplishment, but it may not make you stand out very much either. The music major that has experience as an ER tech or EMT and has > 3.8 science GPA and near perfect GRE (or becoming more common, the PA-CAT) is going to stand out more in the long term.

If you are going to make this happen you are going to need to improve you science GPA quickly, and demonstrate that you can handle the rigors of graduate level medical course work. While it won't be fun (or cheap) it may be necessary to complete a post bac program and excel. There were several individuals in the may class that did this with similar stats as yourself. Just remember - PA school is also expensive. I would stay away from the MPH type programs as it is not uncommon for MPH students to apply to PA school (i.e it may not help you stand out as much as you think), but it also won't help your science GPA much either.

If I were in your shoes, I personally would begin searching out schooling in respiratory therapy, paramedic, medical imaging, athletic training, or surgical technology. You would need to do well in these programs. Not only will this demonstrate a high interest in the medical community, but many of those classes will likely increase your science GPA and overall GPA. Plus it allows you to start networking in ways that pharmacy techs and medical lab tech cannot do as well. I'm sure that your undergraduate coursework includes the prerequisites for those programs.

As I mentioned recently in a different post, if your your heart is set on being a provider, you can always go the direct-entry NP route. Admissions standards are much lower than PA school, and I know lots of people that have gotten in with similar stats as yourself. There are new programs opening it seems by the day and looking for applicants. You could always become an nurse in addition to the careers mentioned already, but speaking as a previous RN, PA schools will not care much about nursing theory classes. When I interviewed they were much more interested in my paramedic experience. Your credentials probably aren't going to land you an interview with CRNA, neonatal nurse practitioner, or midwife programs. However programs that train family nurse practitioners, acute care nurse practitioners, and psychiatric nurse practitioners will likely look over your GPA. Just something else to think about.

Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions!

 

[pamac]

All of the Medical Lab Scientists I've known that have pursued PA school landed spots, and did quite well compared to folks who went out and got low quality health care experience like a CNA or an MA. We held our own against RT's, rad techs, paramedics, etc, as long as we had the grades. The credits we fulfilled as part of the additional bachelors degree helped a lot more towards improving their GPA for the year of investment than any other single year one could spend. All of my credits contributed to my BCP GPA, and I was able to add over 36 credits of A's to my transcript for 3 semesters. The other programs like Respiratory Therapy and Radiologic Technology are longer, and all the credits might not be categorized as science. You can network just fine as well. That's not a big deal if you do some shadowing... maybe helps with some letters of recommendation, but I had great ones. Most PA programs aren't really heavy on healthcare experience vs wanting to see great grades. Those programs will still not look at a former paramedic with a 3.3 gpa vs a 22 year old with a 3.9 anyway.

"Networking" to get into a PA program is fruitless unless its referring to simply being a means toward getting a good letter of recommendation. But letters of recommendation are the least of a good candidates concerns. If someone is serious about what they want to do and is a good candidate, they won't have any trouble with being able to patch together decent recommendations. You don't need to be an ER nurse to get good recommendations. They get looked at, and are expected to meet a certain standard, the box is checked, and then they move on.

PA school is indeed expensive. I had an interview to a program that had an MHP tacked on and it was going to be close to $150k just for school, not counting living expenses in an expensive city... all for an MPH that would get me nowhere as a PA. Your employer wants you in front of patients billing them. There just isn't a good paying role for a PA that uses the MPH realistically. Its like putting a tuxedo on a duck, and having it will cost another year of schooling and extra tuition/living expenses.

Direct entry NP programs aren't really easy to get into, and are quite expensive.

 

[Splenda88]

Get a rad tech or respiratory or a RN therapy degree in 2 years and start making money 60-80k/yr.