How difficult is pharmacy school?

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stu0513

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Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum, so I don't quite know about the rules. I am a prepharmacy student planning to apply to pharmacy schools this year. I thought it would be more appropriate to post the question in here than the prepharmacy forum because I think I would get more answers from posting it in here.

So the issue is here. I am an applicant to pharmacy school this year and I want to know generally how difficult pharmacy school is. I heard many different answers from many different people. Some people said it's hard and they didn't have "any" free time during the year. Some others said it was so much easier than community college level classes because all you need to do is to pass (they said a GPA of 0.7 is a requirement for a pass)

My perspective? I think pharmacy school is supposed to be a difficult program because it is a professional program. I think I will have a hard time completing the pharmacy program even if I get in. However, a GPA of 0.7 doesn't seem that hard to get even though the classes should be hard. I will only have 2 years of community college level courses completed by the time I get into a pharamcy school, which shows the weakness of my background compared to other people (well, that is, if I can get in). Note: I am a person who stresses a lot on the importance of time for relaxation or extracurricular activities, and that's why I gave up on med school long time ago.

I want to know from you folks that generally how much time you spent on studying during the school year. Did you have much extracurricular activities to work on? Did you have to cram for exams? For those who got a degree in BS, BA or even masters or pHD's, how did you think pharmacy school was compared to your school? Were there a lot of people who quited the program because of their poor performance or attrition?

Thank you very much
 
First of all, a GPA of 0.7 is almost all Ds and a few Fs. You need Cs (2.0) to pass classes generally.

As for difficulty, it really isn't all that bad. It's a heavy load (17-18 units), but no more difficult than upper division classes. It's really intense once you're in the thick of it, with all the tests and projects/assignments, but the time absolutely flies.

The one big disappointment for me is the fill-in-the-bubble tests. I'd much rather have written essays.


As for drop-outs, it was only a few people that had other things going on in their lives. They couldn't focus all their energy on school. If extracurricular activities means drinking, then I really wouldn't worry about lack of free time for that.
 
stu0513 said:
Note: I am a person who stresses a lot on the importance of time for relaxation or extracurricular activities, and that's why I gave up on med school long time ago.
Click to expand...

I know a couple of people in med school who took the exact same courses as me in undergrad.....so if you're talking about undergrad courseload then you should just stick with med school. But if you're talking about med school coursework, then I would recommend talking to more people in med school about it because both programs require you to put in a lot of time and effort (I'm pretty sure med school is more difficult, but the way you manage your time will ultimately decide your stress level). My advice: you should revisit your decision to apply to pharmacy school if time management will a problem.
 
JerryPharmD said:
First of all, a GPA of 0.7 is almost all Ds and a few Fs. You need Cs (2.0) to pass classes generally.

As for difficulty, it really isn't all that bad. It's a heavy load (17-18 units), but no more difficult than upper division classes. It's really intense once you're in the thick of it, with all the tests and projects/assignments, but the time absolutely flies.

The one big disappointment for me is the fill-in-the-bubble tests. I'd much rather have written essays.


As for drop-outs, it was only a few people that had other things going on in their lives. They couldn't focus all their energy on school. If extracurricular activities means drinking, then I really wouldn't worry about lack of free time for that.
Click to expand...

Well, I did not have much trouble with the classes, but it is significantly more time consuming than undergrad as the amount of material is about 4-6 times as much per class. In 3 years of classes we lost 16 of our original 80 people. I guess that gives you some idea of the attrition rate.
 
Tuck said:
Well, I did not have much trouble with the classes, but it is significantly more time consuming than undergrad as the amount of material is about 4-6 times as much per class. In 3 years of classes we lost 16 of our original 80 people. I guess that gives you some idea of the attrition rate.
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hmm... wow, which school did you go to? 16 out of 80 is a LOT considering each students had a GPA of ~3.5 when they were admitted
 
stu0513 said:
hmm... wow, which school did you go to? 16 out of 80 is a LOT considering each students had a GPA of ~3.5 when they were admitted
Click to expand...

There are about 10 out of 60 that are repeating their P1 year at OU.
 
stu0513 said:
Did you have to cram for exams?
Click to expand...

We're in the middle of block exams and I must say that there is too much info to cram and do well. Cramming worked for me in most of my CC classes, some of my undergrad classes at UCDavis, and certainly doesn't work when you have 20 units/semester in pharm school. The concepts aren't so difficult that you won't be able to comprehend them, it's just that you have to stay caught up b/c catching up extremely difficult. If you're set on pharmacy though I wouldn't let the difficulty factor turn you away. Just rise up to the challenge. Oh, and as far as applying w/out a bachelors degree lots of schools really want to see applicants finish that first. My class at Touro is 100% comprised of college grads even though it wasn't required when we applied.
 
Pharmacy school is not that difficult. It's all about which school you go to.

Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_College_of_Pharmacy_and_Health_Sciences. Near the bottom, you'll see under the ranking sections under the academics, it says "The current national average attrition rate for pharmacy programs is 2.88%"

Having said that, a lot of schools have an attrition rate of more than 10% as provided by some SDN members on this thread. That means "most" pharmacy schools have attrition rate less than 2.88% (if you understand how to average, then you'll know what I'm talking about).

In general, pharmacy school shouldn't be that difficult. It's all about which schools you go to. If you happen to be unlucky, then just hope and pray that you can make it to the graduation.:laugh:
 
I'll agree with some of the previous posters that the material isn't necessarily more difficult, there is just so much more of it. I'm only in my 3rd week, but I can already tell it's going to be a very time consuming program, especially the first year.
 
It is not that bad except for the 2nd year at my school.

One simple rule:

You can do the time or the time can do you.

Time management is the key!!

I have 3.91 after first year. Plan on taking it a little easier this year because I am also trying for med school too and need to retake the MCAT. Will shoot for a 3.5-3.6 this year.

The concepts in pharm school are harder (med chem, pharmacology) than med school but there is alot more info in med school and they do not baby you as much.

My friend just finished two years of med school and I look at his stuff for classes.

Just stay up on the info.
 
does anyone else feel babied in pharmacy school?

It's pretty obvious where I go but I'm waiting for them to step it up. Yet my class continues whining and they take even more care of us.
 
I don't feel babied...Saying it that way makes me feel more insulted than anything else. They care about our success and education, but that is definitely different.
 
we get all of our lectures provided to us on power point - the one class where we actually took notes people bitched and moaned.

occassionally a prof will forget to put a slide in their powerpoint that we get - people ask them to post it online for us?! it's ONE damn slide?! and usually something you'll never be asked about ever again, even on the exam. In the time it took you to whine about them posting it, I copied it verbatim on my paper!

Right now there is a huge brouhaha over us not getting our tests back. Seems that someone in the class under us argued the grading of their exam by taking an old exam to the professor and saying "well how come 2 years ago you gave them 2 more points?" so that professor has completely redone her exams and many others just are no longer returning them.

I dunno, I'm conflicted. I like to see how I did. But I also think people are too reliant on old tests. I've watched too many people come out of a test raging bull mad because "it was nothing like the old tests". I personally believe they should be able to test us on anything over the last 3 years at any point, with no warning. I think it should be totally fair game to pull something from patho I or pharmaceutics I on a therapeutics exam.

but I'm psycho like that. (and don't care if I
don't get Straight A's)
 
We have our lectures on powerpoint too, we use it to take notes. Actually more people bitch in my class when the lecture is boring, and we have nothing to take notes ON haha.

I'm a first year, so not too sure on exam issues. Of the tests/quizzes we've had, they've been graded very quickly and we have easy access to them. I'm w/ you on the exam idea though. They're good practice, but doesn't guarantee you anything from the professor!
 
njac said:
we get all of our lectures provided to us on power point - the one class where we actually took notes people bitched and moaned.

occassionally a prof will forget to put a slide in their powerpoint that we get - people ask them to post it online for us?! it's ONE damn slide?! and usually something you'll never be asked about ever again, even on the exam. In the time it took you to whine about them posting it, I copied it verbatim on my paper!

Right now there is a huge brouhaha over us not getting our tests back. Seems that someone in the class under us argued the grading of their exam by taking an old exam to the professor and saying "well how come 2 years ago you gave them 2 more points?" so that professor has completely redone her exams and many others just are no longer returning them.

I dunno, I'm conflicted. I like to see how I did. But I also think people are too reliant on old tests. I've watched too many people come out of a test raging bull mad because "it was nothing like the old tests". I personally believe they should be able to test us on anything over the last 3 years at any point, with no warning. I think it should be totally fair game to pull something from patho I or pharmaceutics I on a therapeutics exam.

but I'm psycho like that. (and don't care if I
don't get Straight A's)
Click to expand...
Completely agree. There was one time where one of my classmates put all of the professor's old exams (2002-06) on the internet. The professor found out and changed all of the exam questions. As a result, the average went down by 8%. Since I wasn't aware of the old exams at all, my average did not go down at all
 
I was looking at the national NAPLEX pass rates versus the attrition rates at some of the schools I could find the data on. I noticed a direct correlation...the higher the attrition rate the higher the NAPLEX pass rate. There is at least one school that has a NAPLEX pass rate of 57% which is pretty scary. I would rather work a bit harder and go to a school with a 98-99% pass rate on the NAPLEX.
 
Utterdevotion said:
We have our lectures on powerpoint too, we use it to take notes. Actually more people bitch in my class when the lecture is boring, and we have nothing to take notes ON haha.

I'm a first year, so not too sure on exam issues. Of the tests/quizzes we've had, they've been graded very quickly and we have easy access to them. I'm w/ you on the exam idea though. They're good practice, but doesn't guarantee you anything from the professor!
Click to expand...

I haven't had any tests yet, so I can't say, but the quizzes here aren't so bad in most classes. They have us setup on audience response system. So when we have a quiz it's like "polling the audience" on Who wants to be a Millionaire. We just respond by a handheld clicker and the results are posted as soon as they "close the poll" It's interesting to see the percentages of students that picked any given answer. Sometimes everyones on it and 98% get the same answer, sometimes it looks like an AT&T commercial (More bars in more places)

As for subject matter, the bio students tend to be struggling with Pharmaceutics, the chem majors with BioSystems (A/P) The biochem majors are a little better suited just because we got a little of both in our majors. But even for us, we still have to pay attention so as not to get behind. (This is a broad generalization, but seems to be the case based on the students I've talked to in our class)
 
Tuck said:
I was looking at the national NAPLEX pass rates versus the attrition rates at some of the schools I could find the data on. I noticed a direct correlation...the higher the attrition rate the higher the NAPLEX pass rate. There is at least one school that has a NAPLEX pass rate of 57% which is pretty scary. I would rather work a bit harder and go to a school with a 98-99% pass rate on the NAPLEX.
Click to expand...
hey tuck, where did you find the stats. Mind if you share those with us?
 
I remember as I was going through it I thought it was the hardest thing I had ever done. In retrospect, it wasn't really that bad. Just painful.
 
stu0513 said:
Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum, so I don't quite know about the rules. I am a prepharmacy student planning to apply to pharmacy schools this year. I thought it would be more appropriate to post the question in here than the prepharmacy forum because I think I would get more answers from posting it in here.

So the issue is here. I am an applicant to pharmacy school this year and I want to know generally how difficult pharmacy school is. I heard many different answers from many different people. Some people said it's hard and they didn't have "any" free time during the year. Some others said it was so much easier than community college level classes because all you need to do is to pass (they said a GPA of 0.7 is a requirement for a pass)

My perspective? I think pharmacy school is supposed to be a difficult program because it is a professional program. I think I will have a hard time completing the pharmacy program even if I get in. However, a GPA of 0.7 doesn't seem that hard to get even though the classes should be hard. I will only have 2 years of community college level courses completed by the time I get into a pharamcy school, which shows the weakness of my background compared to other people (well, that is, if I can get in). Note: I am a person who stresses a lot on the importance of time for relaxation or extracurricular activities, and that's why I gave up on med school long time ago.

I want to know from you folks that generally how much time you spent on studying during the school year. Did you have much extracurricular activities to work on? Did you have to cram for exams? For those who got a degree in BS, BA or even masters or pHD's, how did you think pharmacy school was compared to your school? Were there a lot of people who quited the program because of their poor performance or attrition?

Thank you very much
Click to expand...



pharmacy school is pretty hard!!
 
BMW5 said:
pharmacy school is pretty hard!!
Click to expand...
Can you be more specific? How hard is it? Also, as the other guy mentioned, difficulty of the pharmacy school all depends on which schools you go to? Is this true? I thought all schools are equally recognized by ACPE (well, of course except for some schools). If so, why are there such a big difference between the attrition rates between schools?😕
 
pharmacy degree of difficulty is directly proportional to the effort you put into master it, the more effort , the easier it gets.
There is no such things as difficult in life, just the unwillingness to conquer it
 
hyperioncu said:
pharmacy degree of difficulty is directly proportional to the effort you put into master it, the more effort , the easier it gets.
There is no such things as difficult in life, just the unwillingness to conquer it
Click to expand...

Tell that to the midget trying to dunk a basketball.
 
I heard its like the transition from high school into university level and then some. people only get about 5 hours a night of sleep. their idea of "fun" is sleeping in!
 
cystapharm said:
I heard its like the transition from high school into university level and then some. people only get about 5 hours a night of sleep. their idea of "fun" is sleeping in!
Click to expand...

I've been averaging 5 hours of sleep....but mainly as a result of slacking a little too much.

From what I've been hearing from my classmates in P2-P4 years, pharmacy school is basically a year of 17-19 credit hours made up of senior level/graduate level science courses. So it's tough but doable.

I'm debating whether to pull a semi-all nighter to catch up on anatomy and physical pharmacy exam prep right now.:scared:
 
hyperioncu said:
pharmacy degree of difficulty is directly proportional to the effort you put into master it, the more effort , the easier it gets.
There is no such things as difficult in life, just the unwillingness to conquer it
Click to expand...
That's not true. I know a couple people in the pharmacy school just understand everything right out from the lecture. On the other hand, I have to listen to the recordings as well as reading the textbook like 500 times in order to get the concepts right.

Attrition rate depends on the difficulty of school as well as the quality of students they admit. Schools that have a high attrition rate may have an easily admission policy
 
Tuck said:
Tell that to the midget trying to dunk a basketball.
Click to expand...

if the midget is smart enough he will get a stair, get it close to the basket and drop it inside............... still dunk it.

if you wanna do something you find 10 000 ways to do it, if you dont wanna do it youll find 10 000 ways to dont do it.
 
bankai123 said:
That's not true. I know a couple people in the pharmacy school just understand everything right out from the lecture. On the other hand, I have to listen to the recordings as well as reading the textbook like 500 times in order to get the concepts right.

Attrition rate depends on the difficulty of school as well as the quality of students they admit. Schools that have a high attrition rate may have an easily admission policy
Click to expand...


We all hve different understandings of concepts, some people will get it right away, in a second, other will take longer. You need 500 times to get something and some people in your class grab the concept in a second, personally i always have to write things, make drawings, in other words visualize it somehow.

i love biochemistry, it comes damn easy, so with physiology and other sciences, but even if i get it pretty easy i still have to go through my learning process.

The more you study, the better prepared you are, no one can party all the time or slack and can realistically expect to get straight a's. that aint happening. the more ass-hours you spend on a chair learning, the easier it gets. guaranteed
 
hyperioncu said:
We all hve different understandings of concepts, some people will get it right away, in a second, other will take longer. You need 500 times to get something and some people in your class grab the concept in a second, personally i always have to write things, make drawings, in other words visualize it somehow.

i love biochemistry, it comes damn easy, so with physiology and other sciences, but even if i get it pretty easy i still have to go through my learning process.

The more you study, the better prepared you are, no one can party all the time or slack and can realistically expect to get straight a's. that aint happening. the more ass-hours you spend on a chair learning, the easier it gets. guaranteed
Click to expand...


Not true! I spent the last 3 years of undergrad and my first year of pharmacy school partying 4 days a week until my liver could not take it anymore and still got straight A's. Oddly enough, my grades the rest of my time in pharmacy school were not as good....

btw the midget is not allowed any stairs or ladders or clothes or shoes, just a regulation height basketball hoop and a ball (obviously he has to do this enclosed in a white room with padded walls too since he would have to be nuts to waste his time in the first place)
 
It's all about time management.
I'm in undergrad and am taking 18 credits per semester. I also take honors courses, including Honors O-Chem. I have my own horse (2-2.5 hours per day, sometimes more) and am on the equestrian team (4 hours per week). But, I have an almost perfect GPA (All A's, one A-). I have learned how to study and LEARN the material, not just cram. That helps a lot and saves a lot of stress. If you learn to manage your time and have good study habits in undergrad, you should be better off going to pharmacy school (although pharmacy school will most likely be more difficult). Med school is harder than pharmacy, IMO, and the lifestyle is much more difficult. You have to completely give up your life, and that is why I am not going the pre-med route. Yes, some people devote their lives to pharmacy, but if you choose to have a 40-hour a week work week, you can still have a life outside of work.. JMO.
 
hyperioncu said:
if the midget is smart enough he will get a stair, get it close to the basket and drop it inside............... still dunk it.

if you wanna do something you find 10 000 ways to do it, if you dont wanna do it youll find 10 000 ways to dont do it.
Click to expand...
That is like "cheating" if you relate that to pharmacy school. If you are caught cheating in any pharmacy schools, they kick you out...
 
abr said:
It's all about time management.
I'm in undergrad and am taking 18 credits per semester. I also take honors courses, including Honors O-Chem. I have my own horse (2-2.5 hours per day, sometimes more) and am on the equestrian team (4 hours per week). But, I have an almost perfect GPA (All A's, one A-). I have learned how to study and LEARN the material, not just cram. That helps a lot and saves a lot of stress. If you learn to manage your time and have good study habits in undergrad, you should be better off going to pharmacy school (although pharmacy school will most likely be more difficult). Med school is harder than pharmacy, IMO, and the lifestyle is much more difficult. You have to completely give up your life, and that is why I am not going the pre-med route. Yes, some people devote their lives to pharmacy, but if you choose to have a 40-hour a week work week, you can still have a life outside of work.. JMO.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. You have great ideals, but ideals don't necessarily equilibrate with reality. I look forward to your posts after you start pharmacy school and especially after you begin your P2 year.

In my experience, it's NOT all about time management. In many cases it's about what to ignore. Do I read the 100 page reading assignment or do I concentrate on that one table that lists 50 therapies and the prescription algorithms that go along with them? Do I skip the meaningless class in order to focus on the one in which failure spells disaster (in my case, a Pass/Fail course!). It can also be about who you know for the sake of getting a heads up about a class.

I don't know if med school is more difficult than pharm school. I'VE never been to med school. I do know that our educational processes differ. Our focuses are on different things. Our career paths are radically different. It's as it should be.

I've basically given up my life for pharm school. The reward is that I know it won't be this way forever, athough I expect my career will be demanding - and rewarding.

Pharmacy school will change a student's life in profound ways. I know it's comforting to think that pharm school is just an extension of undergrad (I did it too), but it's not. Prepare to be challenged.
 
Yeah, straight A's in pharmacy school is extremely difficult. I don't even think it's possible that anyone in our class has gotten that achievement
 
btw the midget is not allowed any stairs or ladders or clothes or shoes, just a regulation height basketball hoop and a ball (obviously he has to do this enclosed in a white room with padded walls too since he would have to be nuts to waste his time in the first place)[/quote]

He can ask Shaq or Yao Ming or any tall dude to hold him up and just DUNK the ball.
Man, if you don't think the midget can do it, you will never get it or better yet, you will probably never achieve any real goal the rest of your life.😎
 
I hope that some Pharmacy schools reward Pharmacy students who excel the most the first year of Pharmacy school by giving them a full ride or scholarship the second year. If this is so, please tell me what schools are on that system. Bright students have to get compensated, and I hope to be one of them.
 
Is it reasonable to be able to work 15-20 hours a week when you start pharmacy school? I will have to have a part-time job because I pay child support. With good study habits could these be done pretty easily?

Ryan
 
srleslie said:
Is it reasonable to be able to work 15-20 hours a week when you start pharmacy school? I will have to have a part-time job because I pay child support. With good study habits could these be done pretty easily?

Ryan
Click to expand...

Absolutely! Everything is possible if you put your mind to it. With that said, you should be careful; undergrad is nothing like pharmacy school.

But I do know of a P2 student that is still working 20-30 hours a week as a research assistant since last year, maintaining a 4.0. So it's do-able!
 
Utterdevotion said:
Absolutely! Everything is possible if you put your mind to it. With that said, you should be careful; undergrad is nothing like pharmacy school.

But I do know of a P2 student that is still working 20-30 hours a week as a research assistant since last year, maintaining a 4.0. So it's do-able!
Click to expand...

hmm... I study like 30 hrs per week with no job and am getting a GPA of only 2.4...
 
Utterdevotion said:
Absolutely! Everything is possible if you put your mind to it. With that said, you should be careful; undergrad is nothing like pharmacy school.

But I do know of a P2 student that is still working 20-30 hours a week as a research assistant since last year, maintaining a 4.0. So it's do-able!
Click to expand...

One thing you should realize is that you have to have the capacity and the ability to reach those goals. Lack in either and you're just wasting your time.
 
At most schools C=PharmD. Unfortunately not all, but with a little prioritization, you can make it work. Even with a family.
 
anyone not go to lectures and just study from home?
 
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