How do all the dingus surgeons, specialists, etc get into med school?

Kurk

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Almost every high-income specialist I've met, whether it be in the hospital or out, have projected this ahole, condescending, patronizing attitude to me and others. I've had a trauma nurse tell me about how the surgeons "are very difficult to work with". In contrast, I've yet to meet a primary care doc who does act like this.

Since we all know that interviewers reject these personality types, how is it that these people get through?

*edit*
lol nice auto replacement of ahole with dingus.
 

blackroses

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Almost every high-income specialist I've met, whether it be in the hospital or out, have projected this ahole, condescending, patronizing attitude to me and others. I've had a trauma nurse tell me about how the surgeons "are very difficult to work with". In contrast, I've yet to meet a primary care doc who does act like this.

Since we all know that interviewers reject these personality types, how is it that these people get through?

*edit*
lol nice auto replacement of ahole with dingus.
This is a great example of confirmation bias. I assure you that I've met plenty of primary care docs who have less than pleasant personalities.

It doesn't take much for someone with a toxic personality to survive med school interviews - they just have to pretend to be a normal human for a couple hours.
 
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flasheroonie

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Almost every high-income specialist I've met, whether it be in the hospital or out, have projected this ahole, condescending, patronizing attitude to me and others. I've had a trauma nurse tell me about how the surgeons "are very difficult to work with". In contrast, I've yet to meet a primary care doc who does act like this.

Since we all know that interviewers reject these personality types, how is it that these people get through?

*edit*
lol nice auto replacement of ahole with dingus.
Peoples' personalities change as a result of the hidden curriculum in med school, some for the better (more responsibility, professionalism, better communication), some for the worse ("dingus" personalities, sadism, and elitist behaviors).
 

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Almost every high-income specialist I've met, whether it be in the hospital or out, have projected this ahole, condescending, patronizing attitude to me and others. I've had a trauma nurse tell me about how the surgeons "are very difficult to work with". In contrast, I've yet to meet a primary care doc who does act like this.

Since we all know that interviewers reject these personality types, how is it that these people get through?

*edit*
lol nice auto replacement of ahole with dingus.
 
Last edited:

Matthew9Thirtyfive

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As someone else wrote, confirmation bias. I have worked with dozens of surgeons in multiple states for almost a decade, and the overwhelming majority of them have been extremely nice, caring individuals.
 

mistafab

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This is a bad example. Ben Carson in person is actually one of the nicest people you have ever met. Everyone who works with him or around him think so - as did his patients. What makes him a wack-job was not his professionalism or personality, it was his bizarre personal beliefs outside of medicine.

The Ben Carson's of this world are a joy to work with, though they are strange as a bag of eels. It is the House MDs of the world (who are much less intelligent) that are insufferable.

I have personally wondered how Dr. Ben Carson, who calls poverty "a state of mind," made it to my dream medical school, but came to the conclusion that I shouldn't judge because 1). I don't know him personally and 2). it was a different time period.
Med school admissions used to be less holistic and more based on hard metrics (MCAT, GPA). Plus people's personalities and perspectives change as a result of their experience.
Furthermore, a person's profession does not define them. You can be a sh***y person but a good doctor, and vise versa. My personal experience with high-income specialty doctors so far has been positive -- the two neurosurgeons I've shadowed were very polite and patient, so rest assured that certainly not all surgeons are like the ones you have met. :)
 

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This is a bad example. Ben Carson in person is actually one of the nicest people you have ever met. Everyone who works with him or around him think so - as did his patients. What makes him a wack-job was not his professionalism or personality, it was his bizarre personal beliefs outside of medicine.

The Ben Carson's of this world are a joy to work with, though they are strange as a bag of eels. It is the House MDs of the world (who are much less intelligent) that are insufferable.
Again, I said I am not judging because I have never met Dr. Carson personally. I'm not going to know if he's nice or not without meeting him in person. I never meant to specifically say he was a bad person or anything. I apologize for using him as an example.
 
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Those personalities exist in every specialty. You may notice these traits more in surgeons because we tend to showcase them more, we are typically loud and extroverted, so our good and bad sides are out there for all to see. Some of the most caustic, passive aggressive, backstabbing POSs I have met were medical people. They're just more quiet about their "dingus"-ness.
 

jm192

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You either have great grades/scores or personality. You obviously cannot have both. No one in the history of ever has had both. No one. Ever.

I agree that a lot of it happens as a result of med school/residency. Physician burnout is real at every level. And being an @$$hole is often a symptom of that.
 
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Kurk

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So are dentists worse than physicians?
 

Geo16

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Hard work and long hour = kills personality.
This kinda scares me lol
 

joschar

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Again, I said I am not judging because I have never met Dr. Carson personally. I'm not going to know if he's nice or not without meeting him in person. I never meant to specifically say he was a bad person or anything. I apologize for using him as an example.
Unrelated but I met him at a book signing a couple years ago. Shook his hand and gave him a t-shirt from our university.
 

calivianya

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Most of the surgeons I've met are nice - except for the cards guys. I've worked at four hospitals, and all of the times I've called a cardiac surgeon ever, they've all been much less than pleasant.

Also, 99% of the bad physician encounters I've had were all in one place. If the facility culture is that it's okay for physicians to be jerks because they're the facility gods and that's just how it is, a lot of them are going to take advantage of it and be jerks. It the culture is that eventually, enough smacks on the hand for bad behavior are going to force them to practice somewhere else, most of them are nice. My current job enforces good behavior and I've only had problems with the cardiac surgeons, vs. I had problems with physicians of all specialties at my first job.
 

Soccer171983

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4 years of med school, residency, fellowship with tons of pressure/stress can make some people crack. Some people came into medicine being jerks and never changed. Not all surgeons are like this and not all pcp are always nice. Could be the sample you have come across or it could just, unfortunately, be your level within the medical profession (some surgeons who are super nice to everyone might not be towards a medical student or resident who is getting in their way of efficiency and pace or deemed to be wasting time). You have to account for personality differences coupled with years or environmental/stress pressures couple with individuals tolerance and coping mechanisms and you will see variations in personalities. BTW one of the meanest people I met in medicine was a pediatrician. She was super nice to the kids, ultra angry toward staff/ancillary help, straight up aggressive with med students and residents, and many a times argued with the parents over petty things. I remember this shocking me as a medical student due to the stigma of pediatricians being nice lol.
 

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Almost every high-income specialist I've met, whether it be in the hospital or out, have projected this ahole, condescending, patronizing attitude to me and others. I've had a trauma nurse tell me about how the surgeons "are very difficult to work with". In contrast, I've yet to meet a primary care doc who does act like this.

Since we all know that interviewers reject these personality types, how is it that these people get through?

*edit*
lol nice auto replacement of ahole with dingus.
Is it the income or specialty that causes the bad attitude? Do you sub-specialties like endocrine or nephro not have this problem?

From my experiences, I haven't seen a direct pattern. In fact, the cardiologists I have been around have been very polite and helpful. Not the same can be said for all the surgeons I have been around, but most have been pleasant. N=1
 

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This is a bad example. Ben Carson in person is actually one of the nicest people you have ever met. Everyone who works with him or around him think so - as did his patients. What makes him a wack-job was not his professionalism or personality, it was his bizarre personal beliefs outside of medicine.

The Ben Carson's of this world are a joy to work with, though they are strange as a bag of eels. It is the House MDs of the world (who are much less intelligent) that are insufferable.
His bizarre personal beliefs? Beliefs that a large portion of the country agree with. He may not agree with your politics, but that doesn't make him a wack-job. In fact, if you know anything about Dr. Carson, you would know he didn't have the ideal circumstances like many children from Detroit. Maybe instead of calling him a wack-job, you could attempt to understand his position, because he has actually lived through some bad times.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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His bizarre personal beliefs? Beliefs that a large portion of the country agree with. He may not agree with your politics, but that doesn't make him a wack-job. In fact, if you know anything about Dr. Carson, you would know he didn't have the ideal circumstances like many children from Detroit. Maybe instead of calling him a wack-job, you could attempt to understand his position, because he has actually lived through some bad times.
Isn't he a YEC? That's not politics. That's cooky dooks.
 

CyrilFiggis

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Is it the income or specialty that causes the bad attitude? Do you sub-specialties like endocrine or nephro not have this problem?
Anyone who actually enjoys the kidneys has a personality issue.

Dinguses exist at all levels of healthcare. Trying to compartmentalize them is useless. Also, we can't forget about the transient a-holes, sometimes you just have a bad day and people piss you off, this may often correlate with someone in a high stress field who just hits the point of no longer putting on niceties.
 

septalridge

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Usually I've found it to be people who are just socially awkward who find themselves in a position of power and then abuse that power. I've seen it in all specialties though.
I agree, and I don't think such behavior patterns are confined to doctors. There are difficult and unpleasant people in all walks of life.
 
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Planes2Doc

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They are really good at what they do. The surgeon that performed my dad's colectomy and later, the anastomosis a few months later, flawlessly with zero complications. The guy was a real dingus, but my parent's didn't care.

At the end of the day, when you're seeing a physician, you are seeking a service that involves treating you and addressing (and hopefully fully correcting) a problem. You are not there to find a drinking buddy. Being nice is a bonus, but you're not there to make friends.

There's too much emphasis put on red herring these days. I don't care what my colleagues do in their free time, what car they drive, how big their house is, whether they use iPhone or Android, whether they are Bitcoin mining or not, if they are nice to their family and friends, or if they hold doors open for old ladies. These are all inconsequential to the job they do. If you come to work and do what you're supposed to, then you're golden.

I personally try to follow the Golden Rule and treat every single person with respect. But that's just me, and not something that was a requirement.
 

Matthew9Thirtyfive

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They are really good at what they do. The surgeon that performed my dad's colectomy and later, the anastomosis a few months later, flawlessly with zero complications. The guy was a real dingus, but my parent's didn't care.

At the end of the day, when you're seeing a physician, you are seeking a service that involves treating you and addressing (and hopefully fully correcting) a problem. You are not there to find a drinking buddy. Being nice is a bonus, but you're not there to make friends.

There's too much emphasis put on red herring these days. I don't care what my colleagues do in their free time, what car they drive, how big their house is, whether they use iPhone or Android, whether they are Bitcoin mining or not, if they are nice to their family and friends, or if they hold doors open for old ladies. These are all inconsequential to the job they do. If you come to work and do what you're supposed to, then you're golden.

I personally try to follow the Golden Rule and treat every single person with respect. But that's just me, and not something that was a requirement.
It's different in primary care though. I've seen first hand how a provider being an ass can lower compliance.
 

MareNostrummm

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At the end of the day, when you're seeing a physician, you are seeking a service that involves treating you and addressing (and hopefully fully correcting) a problem. You are not there to find a drinking buddy. Being nice is a bonus, but you're not there to make friends.
There isn't just "nice" or "***hole". Most people just expect their physician to be pleasantly neutral. I've seen emergency medicine physicians go out of their way to pick on/bully the staff and patients. It just indicates bad social skills or inability to handle stress. They don't last very long though once the nurses and/or patients start complaining. I'm assuming its very different in surgical specialties or in places where you can't easily replace the physician.
 

Planes2Doc

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There isn't just "nice" or "***hole". Most people just expect their physician to be pleasantly neutral. I've seen emergency medicine physicians go out of their way to pick on/bully the staff and patients. It just indicates bad social skills or inability to handle stress. They don't last very long though once the nurses and/or patients start complaining. I'm assuming its very different in surgical specialties or in places where you can't easily replace the physician.
I agree with you. People are always talking about others in black and white. Most people are in-between, and generally speaking, every attending physician I have met at my hospital so far has been pleasant.

It's just that people begin to develop unrealistic and irrelevant expectations regarding the doctors they see.
 
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Those personalities exist in every specialty. You may notice these traits more in surgeons because we tend to showcase them more, we are typically loud and extroverted, so our good and bad sides are out there for all to see. Some of the most caustic, passive aggressive, backstabbing POSs I have met were medical people. They're just more quiet about their "dingus"-ness.
Around here, peds are by far the worst personalities, but you'd never know it by only meeting them briefly.

Specialty culture, while it may have some general trends, is very department specific. Vascular surgery at one hospital in my area is completely different in attitude from vascular surgery at the hospital next door.
 
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