How do I maximize research efficiency in Medical School?

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sallyhasanidea

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Just got an acceptance to medical school.

Was wondering how I can maximize my research efficiency and increase journal output throughout medical school.

I only got 2 publications during undergrad, and those were through basic science projects which took way too long. I'm thinking clinical research for medical school, retrospective chart reviews and database work... but is there a way I can get a head start during undergrad?

Speaking to medical students they told me they had to figure out some system for databases before they could really improve their research output. How do I get a head start on this?
 
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I would straight up aim for quantity. Go by the adage "program directors can count but cannot read when it comes to publications".

Any tips on how I can maximize quantity of publications? Ideally I would want 20+
 
Any tips on how I can maximize quantity of publications? Ideally I would want 20+

Certainly possible, but extremely rare and difficult to get that many before the end of med school. My best advice would be to find a niche - be that a certain lab technique, type of analysis, manuscript writing, video editing, etc.. - and exploit it as much as you can. Find a fellow or upper level resident within your field of interest and build that relationship. Also be a bit lucky.
 
This is an absurd expectation.

Gotta aim high so even if I fall short I'll have a decent number of publications for residency.

Calm down. Most people don't have 20+ after 5+ years in a PhD dedicated to research!

Yeah but most people who get a PhD for 5 years usually do it in basic sciences and are not productive in their research output, I'm looking to do clinical research with data that has already been collected, any tips?

Maybe try doing work that's actually useful instead of pumping out nonsense that no one will read

I see what you're getting at here, but if we go with the previously mentioned adage, "program directors can count but cannot read when it comes to publications" it seems as though it would be better for me to grab the low hanging fruit and go for quantity > quality.
 
Gotta aim high so even if I fall short I'll have a decent number of publications for residency.



Yeah but most people who get a PhD for 5 years usually do it in basic sciences and are not productive in their research output, I'm looking to do clinical research with data that has already been collected, any tips?



I see what you're getting at here, but if we go with the previously mentioned adage, "program directors can count but cannot read when it comes to publications" it seems as though it would be better for me to grab the low hanging fruit and go for quantity > quality.

Calm down. Don't confuse research productivity in clinical research w/ that in the basic sciences. 20+ publications is an absurd desire for a med student - focus on doing well on your steps, getting strong pre-clinical and clinical grades, and being decently productive in research (e.g. 5-10 "publications" since they aren't always defined as straight up journal articles) and you should be competitive for whatever residency you want.
 
Let's forget the 20+ pubs part and get back to the question.

What is the most efficient method for one to maximize their research output? Does this vary depending on the field, and if so, how?
 
Let's forget the 20+ pubs part and get back to the question.

What is the most efficient method for one to maximize their research output? Does this vary depending on the field, and if so, how?

Pick a project you give a **** about and you'll be productive.
 
Lmao totally forgot about this guy. To maximize your research efficiency you just have to get your ass to a computer and dig up the data. When you finish a project, ask for another one. There really is no secret to it.


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I put my hands in a lot of student projects. No one knew how to write an IRB, I learned how to do it and contributed to 6 IRBs in a 4 month period and now I'm enjoying an authorship on each manuscript as it's being written.
 
I put my hands in a lot of student projects. No one knew how to write an IRB, I learned how to do it and contributed to 6 IRBs in a 4 month period and now I'm enjoying an authorship on each manuscript as it's being written.

How do I do this?
 
How do I do this?

As a student you'll be the one doing the grunt work.

Find a mentor in a productive place that preferably has databases that you can contribute to in terms of chart review.

Then put in the time and crank out chart review papers until the cows come home.

20+ pubs in medical school is VERY ambitious, but it's not impossible. If you take a year off for clinical research (along with being absolutely in the top 0.01% the rest of your time) it's feasible.

Despite what others may have said, nobody is doing truly high quality research in medical school. Publications in number count more than quality for the most part. As long as you can talk intelligently about ALL of your projects, more will never hurt you.
 
As a student you'll be the one doing the grunt work.

Find a mentor in a productive place that preferably has databases that you can contribute to in terms of chart review.

Then put in the time and crank out chart review papers until the cows come home.

20+ pubs in medical school is VERY ambitious, but it's not impossible. If you take a year off for clinical research (along with being absolutely in the top 0.01% the rest of your time) it's feasible.

Despite what others may have said, nobody is doing truly high quality research in medical school. Publications in number count more than quality for the most part. As long as you can talk intelligently about ALL of your projects, more will never hurt you.

question. Does the research have to be done in the medical school or can it be published in medical journals? I have done research in biotech and would like to continue publishing in this field. Would this look bad?
 
How do I do this?

A few students doing projects associated with the country I was visiting with them needed help, and I helped them out and developed their protocols... try to find out if classmates are doing projects and tag along, or come up with your own project!
 
Pay $500 a pop and you can easily get 20 pubs in the vanity/predatory journals.

And short of publishing in journals that have a history of retracting data due to pure falsification, this will be totally A-OK come residency interview time. A field's specialty journal is preferred, but publications even in the lower impact factor journals (PDs don't look at IF) will still show on your resume.

question. Does the research have to be done in the medical school or can it be published in medical journals? I have done research in biotech and would like to continue publishing in this field. Would this look bad?

I did a fair amount of research, and none of it was directly through MY medical school. I had projects from back home that I worked on. For residency, all that matters is publications. Next best is oral presentations. A far third (but still valuable in showing interest in the field) is abstracts accepted by meetings for a poster (which, once again, have a relatively easy acceptance threshold as long as you actually have a project).
 
Wrong. If it's not in PubMed, it won't be considered real. We're wise to these to these tricks. Every scientist and clinician I know gets 3-4 "Please Submit to Our Journal" spams a day.


And short of publishing in journals that have a history of retracting data due to pure falsification, this will be totally A-OK come residency interview time. A field's specialty journal is preferred, but publications even in the lower impact factor journals (PDs don't look at IF) will still show on your resume.
 
Wrong. If it's not in PubMed, it won't be considered real. We're wise to these to these tricks. Every scientist and clinician I know gets 3-4 "Please Submit to Our Journal" spams a day.

Are you involved in the resident selection process? You said "we" so...

Pretty sure most program directors won't pubmed search every single student's articles lol
 
Wrong. If it's not in PubMed, it won't be considered real. We're wise to these to these tricks. Every scientist and clinician I know gets 3-4 "Please Submit to Our Journal" spams a day.

Fair enough, I'll concede that point. The publication should be listed in Pubmed so that you can put a Pubmed ID. Some of those still require excessive (IMO) fees.
 
You I think that program directors are stupid? That they'll treat the Kansas Journal of Surgery and the International Journal of Indian Sub-artifacts as real journals????

Are you involved in the resident selection process? You said "we" so...

Pretty sure most program directors won't pubmed search every single student's articles lol
 
You I think that program directors are stupid? That they'll treat the Kansas Journal of Surgery and the International Journal of Indian Sub-artifacts as real journals????

Oh I see, so the answer to my earlier question is that you aren't involved in the resident selection process.

No I don't think they are stupid, but I also don't believe that they have the time to decipher which journals are higher impact than others (of course, obvious names on both ends of the spectrum are giveaways). Regardless, my argument was that they won't pubmed every single article, it seems impossible given the number of applicants.

But since neither you nor I have experience in the process, I suppose we can only give our opinions.
 
*sigh* Where's @mimelim and @aProgDirector when you need them???


Oh I see, so the answer to my earlier question is that you aren't involved in the resident selection process.

No I don't think they are stupid, but I also don't believe that they have the time to decipher which journals are higher impact than others (of course, obvious names on both ends of the spectrum are giveaways). Regardless, my argument was that they won't pubmed every single article, it seems impossible given the number of applicants.

But since neither you nor I have experience in the process, I suppose we can only give our opinions.
 
Pay $500 a pop and you can easily get 20 pubs in the vanity/predatory journals.

Why are you spreading misinformation? And why are you treating this post with hostility? I would expect more from someone that desires a respectful attitude from medical school applicants.

I'm a student that's interested in learning how to maximize research output, it's been done before, and I'm curious as to what people in the past that have done this know, and what they can recommend me to do, is that such a crime?
 
Sorry sally, but when someone comes on here with a, well, foolish idea (20 pubs!), I can't sugar coat things.

And stay away from any residency in NYC...they'll eat you alive.

I was not kidding about the vanity journals. You pay them, they give a perfunctory peer review, and you get a publication.


Why are you spreading misinformation? And why are you treating this post with hostility? I would expect more from someone that desires a respectful attitude from medical school applicants.

I'm a student that's interested in learning how to maximize research output, it's been done before, and I'm curious as to what people in the past that have done this know, and what they can recommend me to do, is that such a crime?
 
Quality >>> Quantity. In fact, if you have a ridic number of pubs I'm more likely to hunt them down and see what they are, because you're an outlier. Choose a mentor and get something done with 1-2 high quality pubs and you'll be in good shape.

Now, if you're wondering what you can do that might help, my advice is to learn how to use SPSS/SAS/R. If you're going to do database research, knowing how to use one (or more) of these will be invaluable.
 
Quality >>> Quantity. In fact, if you have a ridic number of pubs I'm more likely to hunt them down and see what they are, because you're an outlier. Choose a mentor and get something done with 1-2 high quality pubs and you'll be in good shape.

Now, if you're wondering what you can do that might help, my advice is to learn how to use SPSS/SAS/R. If you're going to do database research, knowing how to use one (or more) of these will be invaluable.

Thanks! Any tips on online tutorials or where to get started? Is one preferred over another? I see SPSS used locally in my undergrad more than the others
 
Quality >>> Quantity. In fact, if you have a ridic number of pubs I'm more likely to hunt them down and see what they are, because you're an outlier. Choose a mentor and get something done with 1-2 high quality pubs and you'll be in good shape.

Now, if you're wondering what you can do that might help, my advice is to learn how to use SPSS/SAS/R. If you're going to do database research, knowing how to use one (or more) of these will be invaluable.

Would something like 2 high quality pubs be satisfactory for something like derm/ortho assuming everything else is in line?
 
Why are you spreading misinformation? And why are you treating this post with hostility? I would expect more from someone that desires a respectful attitude from medical school applicants.

I'm a student that's interested in learning how to maximize research output, it's been done before, and I'm curious as to what people in the past that have done this know, and what they can recommend me to do, is that such a crime?

Misinformation? It is a fact that there are predatory journals out there that accept anything and charge you money in return for publishing your worthless research. Goro was lamenting the existence of these journals and sarcastically suggesting you make use of them if you really expect to get "20 publications".


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I was going to quote a bunch of posts in here, but I think it is better if I just say things in one shot rather than breaking it up.

#1 Why be productive in research while in medical school? I assume that the primary reason is to make yourself more attractive as an applicant for residency. Also, given that the main residencies that value research heavily are the academic programs at bigger places, I assume that the purpose of doing the research is specifically because you have an interest in ending up at one of those residencies.

I am at a big name academic program in a competitive field. Research is probably more important to us than all but maybe 1 or 2 programs in our specialty in the US. We interviewed last week and have another interview day coming up, so I am in the thick of reviewing applications, so...

#2 Some of you have low expectations. There are a fair number of applicants that have strong research credentials. This season we had 2-3 with 20+ publications. Certainly not the norm, but not totally crazy. But, what was obvious was that none of them were paper chasing. They aren't looking for ways to get their name on something. It was obvious that they had their 4-5 projects over 5+ years and then while being in a big department helped with things here and there and ended up on a bunch of other people's work, which is completely normal. Nobody is impressed by the raw number of publications.

#3 Outliers get looked at closely. We are hunting for outliers because ultimately they tend to be the diamonds in the sea of gems that are our applicant pool. If you want to come off as a research superstar, it better hold up on examination. You bet your ass we look at where you published. If you are publishing in obvious paper mills, people do wonder. Economy of effort matters, a lot. Wasting time dumping papers out that could only end up in ****ty journals is a mark of pretty poor decision making.

#4 IF you are going for the research superstar label, you better be able to pull it off in person. You better know the ins and outs of the papers that you write. That is part of the problem with putting out ****. You tend to not really care about the topic or the content as much because it is simply another paper on the list. But, you are going to get asked about things in interviews. If you don't think experts in a field can smell bull****, you are in for a rude awakening. 3 applicants at our last interview day absolutely torpedoed their chances of matching with us because of this. More than knowing about your research, you also need to be able to demonstrate that you understand the paper in the context of the field. It is normal to after talking about your research to get asked, "Okay, so you've studied carotid stenosis and published on it, how should we deal with this pathology?" Fair or not, you better actually give an opinion, not some, "Well, our paper really just said that more study is needed." The assumption is that if you have published on a topic that you are current on your literature since presumably you have done your homework while publishing. If you shortcut in that process, you will get absolutely crucified in interviews. I know, because I've been cringing this season from secondary embarrassment.

#5 A total of ~8-10 people review every single application to our program. Sure, not everyone is going to pick up on a lot of this crap. But, you have to be out of your mind to think that everyone will miss these things. That is a lot of eyes and frankly, some of us are pretty smart and many have been doing this for decades.

And I guess most importantly.

#6 Research is a large part of our program. We select for it because of how much we expect our future residents to do. You are the sum total of your current skills and your ability to gain new ones. THAT is your value. Demonstrating that is the tricky part. While a handful of superstars will publish actually important research as a medical student, for the vast majority it is about developing skills that will allow them to do good future work, or just as importantly, efficient, future work. Common things, know how the IRB works, understand the process, understand the writing styles, understand how to make a very slow system work for you. Learn basic biostats and more importantly how to use at least one of the statistical software. Probably the most important part of that is knowing your limitations. It is staggering how many students, residents and attendings are "find the p-value and base all conclusions based on that". Lastly, learn how to read papers effectively. That means journal clubs and reading a lot. There are plenty of models/algorithms out there on how to read articles.
 
I was going to quote a bunch of posts in here, but I think it is better if I just say things in one shot rather than breaking it up.

#1 Why be productive in research while in medical school? I assume that the primary reason is to make yourself more attractive as an applicant for residency. Also, given that the main residencies that value research heavily are the academic programs at bigger places, I assume that the purpose of doing the research is specifically because you have an interest in ending up at one of those residencies.

I am at a big name academic program in a competitive field. Research is probably more important to us than all but maybe 1 or 2 programs in our specialty in the US. We interviewed last week and have another interview day coming up, so I am in the thick of reviewing applications, so...

#2 Some of you have low expectations. There are a fair number of applicants that have strong research credentials. This season we had 2-3 with 20+ publications. Certainly not the norm, but not totally crazy. But, what was obvious was that none of them were paper chasing. They aren't looking for ways to get their name on something. It was obvious that they had their 4-5 projects over 5+ years and then while being in a big department helped with things here and there and ended up on a bunch of other people's work, which is completely normal. Nobody is impressed by the raw number of publications.

#3 Outliers get looked at closely. We are hunting for outliers because ultimately they tend to be the diamonds in the sea of gems that are our applicant pool. If you want to come off as a research superstar, it better hold up on examination. You bet your ass we look at where you published. If you are publishing in obvious paper mills, people do wonder. Economy of effort matters, a lot. Wasting time dumping papers out that could only end up in ****ty journals is a mark of pretty poor decision making.

#4 IF you are going for the research superstar label, you better be able to pull it off in person. You better know the ins and outs of the papers that you write. That is part of the problem with putting out ****. You tend to not really care about the topic or the content as much because it is simply another paper on the list. But, you are going to get asked about things in interviews. If you don't think experts in a field can smell bull****, you are in for a rude awakening. 3 applicants at our last interview day absolutely torpedoed their chances of matching with us because of this. More than knowing about your research, you also need to be able to demonstrate that you understand the paper in the context of the field. It is normal to after talking about your research to get asked, "Okay, so you've studied carotid stenosis and published on it, how should we deal with this pathology?" Fair or not, you better actually give an opinion, not some, "Well, our paper really just said that more study is needed." The assumption is that if you have published on a topic that you are current on your literature since presumably you have done your homework while publishing. If you shortcut in that process, you will get absolutely crucified in interviews. I know, because I've been cringing this season from secondary embarrassment.

#5 A total of ~8-10 people review every single application to our program. Sure, not everyone is going to pick up on a lot of this crap. But, you have to be out of your mind to think that everyone will miss these things. That is a lot of eyes and frankly, some of us are pretty smart and many have been doing this for decades.

And I guess most importantly.

#6 Research is a large part of our program. We select for it because of how much we expect our future residents to do. You are the sum total of your current skills and your ability to gain new ones. THAT is your value. Demonstrating that is the tricky part. While a handful of superstars will publish actually important research as a medical student, for the vast majority it is about developing skills that will allow them to do good future work, or just as importantly, efficient, future work. Common things, know how the IRB works, understand the process, understand the writing styles, understand how to make a very slow system work for you. Learn basic biostats and more importantly how to use at least one of the statistical software. Probably the most important part of that is knowing your limitations. It is staggering how many students, residents and attendings are "find the p-value and base all conclusions based on that". Lastly, learn how to read papers effectively. That means journal clubs and reading a lot. There are plenty of models/algorithms out there on how to read articles.

Thanks for the tips mimelim. Do you have any suggestions on which algorithms for reading articles to look into? Also do you recommend when searching for a mentor to mention that I want to learn these things... "know how the IRB works, understand the process, understand the writing styles, understand how to make a very slow system work for you. Learn basic biostats and more importantly how to use at least one of the statistical software. "
 
I was going to quote a bunch of posts in here, but I think it is better if I just say things in one shot rather than breaking it up.

#1 Why be productive in research while in medical school? I assume that the primary reason is to make yourself more attractive as an applicant for residency. Also, given that the main residencies that value research heavily are the academic programs at bigger places, I assume that the purpose of doing the research is specifically because you have an interest in ending up at one of those residencies.

I am at a big name academic program in a competitive field. Research is probably more important to us than all but maybe 1 or 2 programs in our specialty in the US. We interviewed last week and have another interview day coming up, so I am in the thick of reviewing applications, so...

#2 Some of you have low expectations. There are a fair number of applicants that have strong research credentials. This season we had 2-3 with 20+ publications. Certainly not the norm, but not totally crazy. But, what was obvious was that none of them were paper chasing. They aren't looking for ways to get their name on something. It was obvious that they had their 4-5 projects over 5+ years and then while being in a big department helped with things here and there and ended up on a bunch of other people's work, which is completely normal. Nobody is impressed by the raw number of publications.

#3 Outliers get looked at closely. We are hunting for outliers because ultimately they tend to be the diamonds in the sea of gems that are our applicant pool. If you want to come off as a research superstar, it better hold up on examination. You bet your ass we look at where you published. If you are publishing in obvious paper mills, people do wonder. Economy of effort matters, a lot. Wasting time dumping papers out that could only end up in ****ty journals is a mark of pretty poor decision making.

#4 IF you are going for the research superstar label, you better be able to pull it off in person. You better know the ins and outs of the papers that you write. That is part of the problem with putting out ****. You tend to not really care about the topic or the content as much because it is simply another paper on the list. But, you are going to get asked about things in interviews. If you don't think experts in a field can smell bull****, you are in for a rude awakening. 3 applicants at our last interview day absolutely torpedoed their chances of matching with us because of this. More than knowing about your research, you also need to be able to demonstrate that you understand the paper in the context of the field. It is normal to after talking about your research to get asked, "Okay, so you've studied carotid stenosis and published on it, how should we deal with this pathology?" Fair or not, you better actually give an opinion, not some, "Well, our paper really just said that more study is needed." The assumption is that if you have published on a topic that you are current on your literature since presumably you have done your homework while publishing. If you shortcut in that process, you will get absolutely crucified in interviews. I know, because I've been cringing this season from secondary embarrassment.

#5 A total of ~8-10 people review every single application to our program. Sure, not everyone is going to pick up on a lot of this crap. But, you have to be out of your mind to think that everyone will miss these things. That is a lot of eyes and frankly, some of us are pretty smart and many have been doing this for decades.

And I guess most importantly.

#6 Research is a large part of our program. We select for it because of how much we expect our future residents to do. You are the sum total of your current skills and your ability to gain new ones. THAT is your value. Demonstrating that is the tricky part. While a handful of superstars will publish actually important research as a medical student, for the vast majority it is about developing skills that will allow them to do good future work, or just as importantly, efficient, future work. Common things, know how the IRB works, understand the process, understand the writing styles, understand how to make a very slow system work for you. Learn basic biostats and more importantly how to use at least one of the statistical software. Probably the most important part of that is knowing your limitations. It is staggering how many students, residents and attendings are "find the p-value and base all conclusions based on that". Lastly, learn how to read papers effectively. That means journal clubs and reading a lot. There are plenty of models/algorithms out there on how to read articles.
Agree with @mimelim - particularly item nos. 1, 4 and 6.
 
So obviously productivity is important but it is also making yourself an appealing candidate... A good way to do this is learning biostats and IRB writing so that you can contribute to projects in a multitude of ways?
 
Thanks! Any tips on online tutorials or where to get started? Is one preferred over another? I see SPSS used locally in my undergrad more than the others

I'd put in a plug for Stata over SPSS if possible. Stata is more flexible and more powerful. SAS is a little clunkier than Stata and not as good for analysis, but probably better for data manipulation and definitely better for big data sets. R is free and opensource, so it is the most flexible and future proof, but the learning curve is steeper than other packages (though probably not any worse than SAS honestly). Ultimately you can do pretty much all the statistics anyone would expect a med student to understand in any of them and a lot of it is dictated by whatever software your research group prefers. What matters more than the software you use is that you understand the purpose and limitations of the techniques you're applying and how to select and interpret them appropriately.
 
I'd put in a plug for Stata over SPSS if possible. Stata is more flexible and more powerful. SAS is a little clunkier than Stata and not as good for analysis, but probably better for data manipulation and definitely better for big data sets. R is free and opensource, so it is the most flexible and future proof, but the learning curve is steeper than other packages (though probably not any worse than SAS honestly). Ultimately you can do pretty much all the statistics anyone would expect a med student to understand in any of them and a lot of it is dictated by whatever software your research group prefers. What matters more than the software you use is that you understand the purpose and limitations of the techniques you're applying and how to select and interpret them appropriately.

In that case, do you think it's better to find a mentor and a project before learning the programming language?
 
Thanks! Any tips on online tutorials or where to get started?

I'd put in a plug for Stata over SPSS if possible.

https://www.edx.org/course/health-numbers-quantitative-methods-harvardx-ph207x#!

I took this free online course that teaches basic statistics as well as Stata, and I thought it was very easy to follow and understand for students. I'm sure there are other similar courses as well.

In that case, do you think it's better to find a mentor and a project before learning the programming language?

Also do you recommend when searching for a mentor to mention that I want to learn these things... "know how the IRB works, understand the process, understand the writing styles, understand how to make a very slow system work for you. Learn basic biostats and more importantly how to use at least one of the statistical software. "

It depends on which attending or lab you have.

If you are lucky, you will find a resident or another student who can sit down with you and teaches you all the statistics and software step by step. Or, you are sometimes expected to conduct the analysis on your own with minimal guidance, which was my case. So when you are looking for a mentor, it is possible that no mentor in your specialty of interest will teach you basic biostatistics and software. If that happens, you need to look elsewhere and teach yourself, such as the online course mentioned above. So ideally, of course, it's good to have a supportive mentor that teaches you everything from A to Z, but usually there will be many times where you have to take the initiative to learn new skills, instead of waiting for someone else to teach and guide you someday.
 
In that case, do you think it's better to find a mentor and a project before learning the programming language?
Learning any of them would be helpful. That being said I think it's worth investing a little time up front to understand basic statistics before you start fiddling around with software packages. The software makes it very easy to get p values and other outputs without providing much guidance on how to interpret them correctly and use the right tests.
 
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